Ambiguity and the need for Common Sense
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Hi guys and girls, hope you are all well.
I'm a newbie to the forums so if this has been posted/attempted before, let me know!
One of the major factors that turned me away from Sunnism was the absolute need for a clear cut, precise way to do everything. And I mean everything. I was, and am sure we all have been, inundated with instructions on the absolute minutiae of the faith wash your nose out like this, clean your arms like this, eat like this etc. etc. ad nauseum.
It seems to me though, from reading these forums and educating myself (very slowly!), that Allah encourages free thought and degrees of common sense, something that I think Sunnism has lost. Please let me know if I am wrong about this.
Certain passages come to mind in particular passages concerning modest dressing and alcohol. The ambiguity here is not accidental, in fact I think it is very purposeful. We need to make our own decisions on these things. And hey, if we're wrong, we have to learn from them.
So basically I was wondering what other topics in the Qur'an are ambiguous and, thus, encourage thinking and moderation?If they could be collected here, then that would be really useful for me and, hopefully, others.
Here's to common sense, a rarity
Thanks!
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"And We have revealed the Book to you which has clear explanation of everything, and a guidance, mercy and good news for those who submit." (Qur'an 1689)
Ooops. Maybe I'm wrong brickwall
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Religions want you to be a slave of an imaginary god who is a dictator and tends to make you a robot and turn you away from science.
Qur'an builds a vision and a way of life which encourages freedom and awareness and science and peace and reality.
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Religions want you to be a slave of an imaginary god who is a dictator and tends to make you a robot and turn you away from science.
Qur'an builds a vision and a way of life which encourages freedom and awareness and science and peace and reality.
Excellent.
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Hi guys and girls, hope you are all well.
I'm a newbie to the forums so if this has been posted/attempted before, let me know!
One of the major factors that turned me away from Sunnism was the absolute need for a clear cut, precise way to do everything. And I mean everything. I was, and am sure we all have been, inundated with instructions on the absolute minutiae of the faith wash your nose out like this, clean your arms like this, eat like this etc. etc. ad nauseum.
The sunnis got that from their 'older brother'..
Judaism is not just a set of beliefs about G-d, man and the universe. Judaism is a comprehensive way of life, filled with rules and practices that affect every aspect of life what you do when you wake up in the morning, what you can and cannot eat, what you can and cannot wear, how to groom yourself, how to conduct business, who you can marry, how to observe the holidays and Shabbat, and perhaps most important, how to treat G-d, other people, and animals. This set of rules and practices is known as halakhah.
http//www.jewfaq.org/halakhah.htm
And the 'hadith' is the sunni's rendition of their older brother's talmud..
In addition to the written scriptures we have an "Oral Torah," a tradition explaining what the above scriptures mean and how to interpret them and apply the Laws. Orthodox Jews believe G-d taught the Oral Torah to Moses, and he taught it to others, down to the present day. This tradition was maintained only in oral form until about the 2d century C.E., when the oral law was compiled and written down in a document called the Mishnah.
http//www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm#TalmudThe Written Law is another name for the Torah. The Oral Law is a legal commentary on the Torah, explaining how its commandments are to be carried out. Common sense suggests that some sort of oral tradition was always needed to accompany the Written Law, because the Torah alone, even with its 613 commandments, is an insufficient guide to Jewish life.
http//www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Oral_Law.html
Combine that with the habits of worshiping a dead people (i.e. Muhammad) which came from the influence of christianism who worship Jesus.. and some other elements and myth from Arab paganism, egyptian paganism and VOILA you have Sunniism / Mohammedanism / Judeo-Arabism.
Ironically, the sunnis / mohammedans / Judeo Arabist often mentioned this verse
"Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say "The Guidance of God,-that is the (only) Guidance." And were thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against God."
(2120)And they don't realize that they have followed a form of religion which is a combination of judaism and christianism.
It seems to me though, from reading these forums and educating myself (very slowly!), that Allah encourages free thought and degrees of common sense, something that I think Sunnism has lost. Please let me know if I am wrong about this.
God encourage reasoning..
"And We have certainly left of it a sign as clear evidence for a people who use reason."
(2935)Certain passages come to mind in particular passages concerning modest dressing and alcohol. The ambiguity here is not accidental, in fact I think it is very purposeful. We need to make our own decisions on these things. And hey, if we're wrong, we have to learn from them.
So basically I was wondering what other topics in the Qur'an are ambiguous and, thus, encourage thinking and moderation?If they could be collected here, then that would be really useful for me and, hopefully, others.
Here's to common sense, a rarity
Thanks!
There are many.. and that's why we have a disagreement... unlike the sectarians..we can agree to disagree on number of things..
Salam / Peace
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The Quran repeatedly states it is for those who think, use AQL/reason etc.
The core of it is clear, see 37.
And of course there is a framework/flexibility within which to work in. Even in early Islam, there was much more independent thinking, reasoning, following of various sunnah/precedent etc. It was more fluid initially, but later became more rigid. Mainly because, it seems, due to huge variance, so there was a movement towards orthodoxy, which led to a fixing of Quran and/or various sunnah to Hadith etc.
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"Islam" is an attempt at creating a personality, a "True Muslim". This is in direct contradiction to 2148 & 5148. The only entity capable of creating a personality is ALLAH. All others can only try to make other personalities bend to their ideal.
Al-quran provides endless leg room for living, it stands to reason that the creator intimately knows his creation. If you surrender to his flow, that flow can take you in any direction.
The idea that there is a specific "sunnah" comes from fear. Fear that ALLAH is not merciful when his name is THE merciful! As if he doesn't know our innermost thoughts so that he could judge us wrong. Then every action in this life turns into a selfish race to earn Paradise Points instead of trying to create a veritable paradise here and now.
Reality is dynamic. Any attempt to hold it down with a static system will not succeed. All must adapt or die/stagnate.
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The sunnis got that from their 'older brother'..
Thanks, that was interesting. Reminds me of this
And when it is said to them "Follow what Allah has revealed", they say "We shall rather follow that upon which we found our forefathers." What! even though their fore-fathers did not apply any wisdom, nor did they follow guidance? (2170)
I agree!
http//uploading.com/files/31f25f11/A%2BQur%2527an%2BAlone%2BManual.doc/
Cheers;
Peace.Cheers MesMorial, will take a look at that. PS, I read the debate between you and a sunni muslim on youtube (I can't remember his name but it had something "Vlogs" in it? Sorry if this makes no sense). I don't know why they don't even want to listen. They can't seem to understand that most of us came from exactly the same position that they are in. We understand the hadith and sunnism. But still they lecture on the hadith and different interpretations. Don't get me wrong, I encourage debate and argument, but the circular reasoning becomes tiresome after a while. Good job trying though! bravo
The Quran repeatedly states it is for those who think, use AQL/reason etc.
The core of it is clear, see 37.
And of course there is a framework/flexibility within which to work in. Even in early Islam, there was much more independent thinking, reasoning, following of various sunnah/precedent etc. It was more fluid initially, but later became more rigid. Mainly because, it seems, due to huge variance, so there was a movement towards orthodoxy, which led to a fixing of Quran and/or various sunnah to Hadith etc.
Yep. Maybe the word ambiguity is wrong - perhaps felxibility is better. Do you know any other issues in the Qur'an that have been widely debated but allow for flexibilty? In particular I'm thinking about what the Qur'an says about pets. We used to have a beautiful black lab and got a lot of grief for this. (I'm sure you can imagine. The fact that he was black made it even worse).Thanks dude.
The idea that there is a specific "sunnah" comes from fear. Fear that ALLAH is not merciful when his name is THE merciful! As if he doesn't know our innermost thoughts so that he could judge us wrong. Then every action in this life turns into a selfish race to earn Paradise Points? instead of trying to create a veritable paradise here and now.
Reality is dynamic. Any attempt to hold it down with a static system will not succeed. All must adapt or die/stagnate.
Nice way to put it!
Paradise Points? rotfl
Buy one get one free.
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I totally agree with everything you said.
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Hi guys and girls, hope you are all well.
I'm a newbie to the forums so if this has been posted/attempted before, let me know!
One of the major factors that turned me away from Sunnism was the absolute need for a clear cut, precise way to do everything. And I mean everything. I was, and am sure we all have been, inundated with instructions on the absolute minutiae of the faith wash your nose out like this, clean your arms like this, eat like this etc. etc. ad nauseum.
It seems to me though, from reading these forums and educating myself (very slowly!), that Allah encourages free thought and degrees of common sense, something that I think Sunnism has lost. Please let me know if I am wrong about this.
Certain passages come to mind in particular passages concerning modest dressing and alcohol. The ambiguity here is not accidental, in fact I think it is very purposeful. We need to make our own decisions on these things. And hey, if we're wrong, we have to learn from them.
So basically I was wondering what other topics in the Qur'an are ambiguous and, thus, encourage thinking and moderation?If they could be collected here, then that would be really useful for me and, hopefully, others.
Here's to common sense, a rarity
Thanks!
Excellent point. Its because the Koran is timeless and human beings are very diverse. Ambiguity in the Koran could also be a trial on the Muslims to see what kind of spin people would put onto those verses.
