Alcohol
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Peace Emil,
I had always believed that alcohol was forbidden. However, I had also wondered at the verse that told the believers not to do the prayers if they had been drinking (alcohol). This made me realise that there is more to the alcohol question than meets the eye. I then questioned where in the chronology of revelation the various verses came. If the verse saying not to pray after drinking came first, then perhaps as time went on, God then decided alcohol was an abomination. This final thought did not sit easily with me, because God is all-knowing and would have known from the start that alcohol is an abomination.
Just addressing the issue for the first time and feeling at ease to speak about it openly, I am beginning to understand the avoid rather than forbidden angle of this issue. Of course, the Koran does not forbid alcohol.
Dawn. -
Even if it doesn`t mention hellfire, it does mention success. And what other success than heaven is there in the Quran?
Avoid it, so you may be of the successful.
It doesn`t get any more clear than that.
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Quran "alcohol takes you away from the remembrance of God".
Quran "Satans cunning is feeble."
Quran "God is allknowing". (infinitely intelligent)Just some corrective pointers to your post
Yepp, Satan's planning is weak, but he is still smarter than you. You say alcohol is illegal because it is the tool of Satan. Now why in the world would you want to make something illegal just because it is the tool of Satan? Everything can be used by him. Everything in this world can be turned into evil, and he knows that. Are you going to make everything illegal because it may be used for evil purposes?
Satan is hiding in the very core of our belief, he disguises himself as God and makes us do horrible things. And we are happy trotting forward thinking we are doing good deeds, not realizing that burning witches, going on crusades and spreading the word of God by means of violence is the way of Satan, not Allah.
Satan's great trick of all time is turning people who believe in God against eachother. Christians vs Jews vs Muslims. How many people have been killed because they believe in the same God as their assassins?Alcohol makes us forget God, that is also true. But that does not make it Satan's tool, it makes us forget God. And if we forget God, we forget Satan. So what is Satan's point in making us forget?
Alcohol is one of the most destructive materials on this world and we would be much better off without it, I think. Destructive, yes. Evil, no.
Peace Emil,
I had always believed that alcohol was forbidden. However, I had also wondered at the verse that told the believers not to do the prayers if they had been drinking (alcohol). This made me realise that there is more to the alcohol question than meets the eye. I then questioned where in the chronology of revelation the various verses came. If the verse saying not to pray after drinking came first, then perhaps as time went on, God then decided alcohol was an abomination. This final thought did not sit easily with me, because God is all-knowing and would have known from the start that alcohol is an abomination.
Just addressing the issue for the first time and feeling at ease to speak about it openly, I am beginning to understand the avoid rather than forbidden angle of this issue. Of course, the Koran does not forbid alcohol.
Dawn.Dear Dawn
That was my initial thought as well. Before I read the Quran I knew of course Muslims did not drink. When I came to "don't pray while drunk" I was like confused
Why is Allah saying not to be drunk when he has forbidden it already? There is no need for a "no smoking" sign if smoking is forbidden entirely.Made me realize it is not forbidden but there are CLEAR warnings that we should not ignore.
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You are absolutely going to make people believe satan is intelligent. When the Quran says satans intelligence is weak, it means that. It adresses a believer/monotheist, which then is the reference.
The monotheist may understand the peaceful path of non-idolatry on several levels. Ofcourse it is ignorance and stupidity, that blocks that path. Thus "the cunning of satan is feeble".If you somehow think he did this because of intelligence, you have it upside down.
The rest of your logic is as broken as a hadith, and I don`t feel like making intellectual obervations on what belongs in a trashcan.
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Peace,
"There is no need for a "no smoking" sign if smoking is forbidden entirely."
"No, Satan's greatest trick is to make us believe we are following God but in fact we are following him."Exactly, and exactly!
However because of its nature, like smoking, a person inclining to alcohol is likely to incline to it again and again. And that is where the harm comes from. We are well aware that it reduces our inhibitions. That means it lowers our self control, it makes it harder to retain piety/right judgement. And the purification of the nafs is our goal as believers. Interestingly the "abstain but not forbidden" rule is practised by Buddhist monks for this very reason. Although alcohol is allowed in that society, they will abstain for themselves, so they can reach enlightenment/purity faster.
Alchohol then is simply a clear, open trial. Like a knife for one inclining to anger, alcohol for a nafs that has not ceased desires. It does not mean that alcohol = sin but it is highly likely; indeed this has been clarified in 2219 for all to see. God knows best.
As for the chronology of the verses, that is extra information. It doesn't matter if Muhammad was sitting on a stone or a chair when he recieved the verse and likewise the chronology is irrelevant given that al-quran is for the eons, presented as is.
"Thus "the cunning of satan is feeble"."
Feeble as it is, Satan's cunning works. Look at the state of the world today. And this is true also, alcohol intoxication dulls the mind & makes it ignorant while inebriated. Then does Satan slip into action.
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You are absolutely going to make people believe satan is intelligent. When the Quran says satans intelligence is weak, it means that. It adresses a believer/monotheist, which then is the reference.
The monotheist may understand the peaceful path of non-idolatry on several levels. Ofcourse it is ignorance and stupidity, that blocks that path. Thus "the cunning of satan is feeble".If you somehow think he did this because of intelligence, you have it upside down.
The rest of your logic is as broken as a hadith, and I don`t feel like making intellectual obervations on what belongs in a trashcan.
You are plain out wrong, my dear friend. If you walk through life thinking you are safe from Satan just because you are smarter than him he has truly succeeded in making you believe that.
Perhaps my logic is trash to you, but son let me tell you, I have done alot of evil things in my life and none of the times I was drunk. Furthermore I have seen pure evil, women and children being nailed to walls crucifix style. Why? because they were muslim. When we as peacekeepers pointed our guns towards their (christian) assassins (we wanted at least save their corpses from further abuse) they stood by, looking at us like we were the evil ones. It made us hate them, and I tell you if I wouldn't have gotten into trouble I would have shot them dead and felt really good about it.
That is Satan's work, son. A scheme making a person think a protector of innocent civilians is evil is not dumb or feeble. A scheme where a peacekeeper's heart is filled with such hate he wants to kill is not dumb or feeble. If you ever think you can outsmart him you are in denial. You see when the Quran says Satan's plan is weak it is referring to one thing. Satan will crumble if you fill your heart with the true path of Allah. Compared to Allah he is nothing, has no chance.
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Salam,
Although this is not related to the topic at hand, I have to agree with Emil on what he has said...
People will enter Hell with the firm belief that they were "doing good" when on Earth...They will even swear to God that they were never idolitors - when in-fact they were
622 And the Day We gather them all, then We say to the polytheists ?Where are your partners whom you used to claim??
623 Then, their only excuse was to say ?By God, our Lord, we were not polytheists!?
By the end of this all, Satan would have suceeded in diverting the majority of humanity to the fires of Hell - clearly he may be stupid for declining to obey God's commands, but he is smart and scheming enough to ensure that most of us go with him
3662 ?He has misled mountain loads of you. Did you not comprehend??
Our only protection is to seek God alone and walk His path...That is the only way to minimize/cancel the effects that Satan can have.
?When you read the Qur?an, you shall seek refuge with God from the outcast devil. He has no authority over those who believe, and who put their trust in their Lord. His authority is over those who follow him, and set him up as a partner.? (Qur?an 1698-100)
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Peace everyone!
Well God states that there is More BAD than GOOD in Alcohol.
And so why would people want to get drunk for? It's a sure way to commit sins & transgress because drinking alcohol WILL disrupt your consciousness, and hinder your mobility. Plus Alcohol puts a strain on your liver, because it's in a way a toxin.
I would think that alcohol in sanitizing & in the medical industry, and in some foods (balsamic vinegar etc) would be OK, because there is Good in these things, and the intention is obviously good. However, drinking alcohol for leasure would be BAD because it can lead to Addiction, wasting Money (same thing with ciggarettes), and liver disease etc.God might not have 100% forbid alcohol, but he tells us to not throw ourselves into destruction! Alcohol & Ciggarette smoking & Drugs etc, are in a way throwing yourself into destruction because there is Addiction, Money waste, Time waste, Negative Body effects, Diseases etc.
Earlier generations might not have known the bad effects of using these things, but we do!
and so why would you choose to go down a road that you know will lead to Diseases, waste, and destruction???
Eating mud is not forbidden, but hey it's not a good idea -
Forbidding even the minute good in alcohol is itself a transgression of a rank far above and beyond any harm it could do. Forbidding the good is/related to kufr (5025, 6812).
Our task as followers of the creator's path is to enjoin good and forbid evil.
What little good of alcohol, broadcast it to the world.
What evil of alcohol, broadcast it to the world.
Alcohol is not inherently evil. Alcohol is inherently alcohol and evil is inherently evil.
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First off, it sounds to me like you guys are blaming satan for your own choices.
Secondly, it sounds to me like you believe in satans illusions, which are often that he is an idol, of being cunning, of being strong etc. While in reality he is pitiful.
Atleast, some quran verses are qouted, where satan "has no power".
What happened to his intelligence then?
The verse is very correct, he has only power over associators. But then again other Quran verses, state that most are astray.
Most associate.
That you can correct by correcting your view on God.
Be sure to believe in a single God, that creates everything.
Etc, be sure that this god is the timeless, spaceless, immaterial paradox, allknowing, transcendent - good, merciful.. etc.
Master of judgement day.
How I feel about satan, is that he is a clown, and I have won over him a long time ago, but you know, you have to make some effort to stay there aswell. So there comes the concept of being godconscious, in the Quran.
Which I try to be all the time.
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these are tha facts.
Harry potter is a wizard too. That's a fact. !
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As for the comment about "Satan" and that we should not have anything to do with anything that Satan may use as a tool against us...You may as well disown your children and give up your money since God calls them a "fitna/trial" (828, 6415) and we know that "fitna/trial" is one of the tools of Satan (2253). We are a "balanced" nation - not one driven by extremes.
Dear Layth,
Alcohol is the enemy of brain and rational thinking. I disagree with your points and when I have time I would like to provide my reasons for them. But, here, I would like to respond to your last paragraph, quickly.
Fitna means TEST or DISCORD. Children and money, like other blessings, are tests and we should be careful not to idolize or preoccupied with our children and money. We fail the test by idolizing our children and money. We are not told that THEY ARE THE DEED OF SATAN, but preoccupation with them is.
As for intoxicants, the Quran clearly depicts it as the "deed of Satan".
The damage of alcohol to the society is huge and its benefit is so little. All drunk drivers, all alcoholics and all those who suffered and hurt others because of alcohol started with the mantra of "moderate drinking." Alcohol is addictive and you save yourself from the harm of alcohol by abstaining from it.
Your last statement is unfortunate, as if there is merit in using alcohol. Alcohol messes up people's "balance", both literally and intellectually.
Peace,
EdipAs for alcohol, we
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The damage of alcohol to the society is huge and its benefit is so little. All drunk drivers, all alcoholics and all those who suffered and hurt others because of alcohol started with the mantra of "moderate drinking." Alcohol is addictive and you save yourself from the harm of alcohol by abstaining from it.
Dear Edip
Eventhough not addressed to me, I would like to ask you if I understood your point correctly.
You state alcohol is the deed of Satan, but you still do not say it is forbidden. Am I to interpret this as you share the view that "no, it is not stated as forbidden in the Quran, but it warns us to the full about the dangers"?
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Peace,
There is a difference between "moderate drinking" which is simply a guise/rationalism of modern society for going out on the weekend and totally destroying one's mind and restricted/cautionary availability of alcohol.
Where people are going to want to drink/intoxicate, there is no way whatsoever to stop them fully. Just as we see with the War on Drugs.
It is NOT a sin to drink alcohol otherwise very simply, that verse about refraining from salat would have no need to exist. As we see the hadithists invent an explanation claiming that al-quran has an order based on the movements of the arabs of those times and IMO that distortion of al-quran is far bigger a transgression.
The state of intoxication on the other hand is something we are told to abstain from. A person who tends towards belief must turn and turn again towards their creator. Alcohol makes one turn away, tend toward disbelief. Therefore it is prohibited for the believers who wish to be full in their faith. Likewise you will not see a believer gamble. However that leaves the rest of the populace who still may incline towards it. Belief and disbelief are also states of mind, and the state of belief doesn't work with the state of intoxication just like happy doesn't mix with angry.
Alcohol and gambling are means to an evil end, they are not the evil itself. All their evils come from their consequences, not from direct effects. The condom can also be called handiwork of satan because it promotes mass promiscuity. But a condom is not evil in and of itself, but the end again, is very evil.
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Dear Edip,
Fitna means TEST or DISCORD. Children and money, like other blessings, are tests and we should be careful not to idolize or preoccupied with our children and money. We fail the test by idolizing our children and money. We are not told that THEY ARE THE DEED OF SATAN, but preoccupation with them is.
As for intoxicants, the Quran clearly depicts it as the "deed of Satan".
It is the "effects" that carry the possibility of being "deeds of satan" (Rijs min amal alshaytan), and not the alcohol itself. A similar example can be found in 1764 where God tells us that satan may share in peoples wealth and children...that does not make these things (wealth, children) evil or satanic in themselves, but it means that satan can have influence over our dealing with such things to cause us more harm than good...
Going back to the subject at hand...Here is what our Prophet said when he was asked about their ruling
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit...?
No forbidden, no avoid...just a warning that they contain good and bad and that the bad typically outweighs the good.
Also, I know you are not a believer in the Sunni abrogation theory, so you are fully aware of the regulation of 443 that asks people not to approach Salat while intoxicated - which by default makes it clearly permisisble.
The damage of alcohol to the society is huge and its benefit is so little. All drunk drivers, all alcoholics and all those who suffered and hurt others because of alcohol started with the mantra of "moderate drinking." Alcohol is addictive and you save yourself from the harm of alcohol by abstaining from it.
This is a personal opinion and has nothing to do with the Quran or its laws...A person can likewise make similar medical and sceintific arguments to support circumcision or moral arguments to support cutting off the hands of theives or stoning women...But we all know that these arguments are meaningless when we are dealing with the truth (see 1036).
Regards,
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It is the "effects" that carry the possibility of being "deeds of satan" (Rijs min amal alshaytan), and not the alcohol itself..........
No forbidden, no avoid...just a warning that they contain good and bad and that the bad typically outweighs the good.
Also, I know you are not a believer in the Sunni abrogation theory, so you are fully aware of the regulation of 443 that asks people not to approach Salat while intoxicated - which by default makes it clearly permisisble.
are the confusing/brain scattering/disconcerting/fidgeting filthy tactic from the act of Shaitan.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.090a.gif
Therefore you people avoid that/ confusing/brain scattering/disconcerting/fidgeting filthy act/Shaitan so that you people attain/reap the fruit of perpetual success........
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.091b.gif
In view of this would you people then be the abstainers of alcoholic drinks and gambling?Does it mean that discretion lies with the listeners to adjudge for themselves whether to consider it prohibited or allowed?
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Yes, yes it does.
It is an OPEN QUESTION.
We ALREADY KNOW the answer is to abstain for those seeking paradise.
That does not mean alcohol is absolutely prohibited.
If it was, there would be no question. Like murder, zina, theft, riba.
Questions like this in the quran are a lot more subtle than you think. There is not always an immediately correct "right/wrong" answer even if it appears so, they are for the person to contemplate thoroughly. E.g. 761
These questions go deeper and deeper the more you look at them, that is WHY they are questions and not direct commandments.
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Dear Mazhar,
I like how you conveintly ignored the clear verses of 2219 and 443 and stuck to dissecting 590-91 to make your statement.
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The Quranic verses are to be taken as a "whole" (tarteel) for any subject to be properly studied. Ignoring even 1 verse may/will lead to wrong conclusions (see 20114, 734, 5101).
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Your analysis of 590-91 is quite messy to put it kindly.
The word "avoid" returns to the shaitan/devil (the "ha" is the "dhameer" and not the objects or the rijs. Also, the question in 591 "will you cease/be deterred" is a reference to the Salat not not the alcohol as you inserted in the translation.
590 O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and sacraments, and fortunes are an affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred? -
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Yes, yes it does.
It is an OPEN QUESTION.
We ALREADY KNOW the answer is to abstain for those seeking paradise.
That does not mean alcohol is absolutely prohibited.
After the injunction/imperative verb to get away from drinking, the past is condoned by it
There is nothing embarrassing/contracting for those who have accepted/believed and acted righteously as to what they had eaten and drank earlier when they returned repenting and believed and did righteous acts;
592Let us see what is permissible
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.004c.gif
They ask you, the Messenger what was/has been made permissible for them?http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.004d.gif
You tell them, "tayyi'baate" were/have been made permissible/lawful for you people"Can someone declare "Rijis" as being one of "tayyi'baate" to consider it permissible?
