Alcohol
-
You are absolutely going to make people believe satan is intelligent. When the Quran says satans intelligence is weak, it means that. It adresses a believer/monotheist, which then is the reference.
The monotheist may understand the peaceful path of non-idolatry on several levels. Ofcourse it is ignorance and stupidity, that blocks that path. Thus "the cunning of satan is feeble".If you somehow think he did this because of intelligence, you have it upside down.
The rest of your logic is as broken as a hadith, and I don`t feel like making intellectual obervations on what belongs in a trashcan.
You are plain out wrong, my dear friend. If you walk through life thinking you are safe from Satan just because you are smarter than him he has truly succeeded in making you believe that.
Perhaps my logic is trash to you, but son let me tell you, I have done alot of evil things in my life and none of the times I was drunk. Furthermore I have seen pure evil, women and children being nailed to walls crucifix style. Why? because they were muslim. When we as peacekeepers pointed our guns towards their (christian) assassins (we wanted at least save their corpses from further abuse) they stood by, looking at us like we were the evil ones. It made us hate them, and I tell you if I wouldn't have gotten into trouble I would have shot them dead and felt really good about it.
That is Satan's work, son. A scheme making a person think a protector of innocent civilians is evil is not dumb or feeble. A scheme where a peacekeeper's heart is filled with such hate he wants to kill is not dumb or feeble. If you ever think you can outsmart him you are in denial. You see when the Quran says Satan's plan is weak it is referring to one thing. Satan will crumble if you fill your heart with the true path of Allah. Compared to Allah he is nothing, has no chance.
-
Salam,
Although this is not related to the topic at hand, I have to agree with Emil on what he has said...
People will enter Hell with the firm belief that they were "doing good" when on Earth...They will even swear to God that they were never idolitors - when in-fact they were
622 And the Day We gather them all, then We say to the polytheists ?Where are your partners whom you used to claim??
623 Then, their only excuse was to say ?By God, our Lord, we were not polytheists!?
By the end of this all, Satan would have suceeded in diverting the majority of humanity to the fires of Hell - clearly he may be stupid for declining to obey God's commands, but he is smart and scheming enough to ensure that most of us go with him
3662 ?He has misled mountain loads of you. Did you not comprehend??
Our only protection is to seek God alone and walk His path...That is the only way to minimize/cancel the effects that Satan can have.
?When you read the Qur?an, you shall seek refuge with God from the outcast devil. He has no authority over those who believe, and who put their trust in their Lord. His authority is over those who follow him, and set him up as a partner.? (Qur?an 1698-100)
-
Peace everyone!
Well God states that there is More BAD than GOOD in Alcohol.
And so why would people want to get drunk for? It's a sure way to commit sins & transgress because drinking alcohol WILL disrupt your consciousness, and hinder your mobility. Plus Alcohol puts a strain on your liver, because it's in a way a toxin.
I would think that alcohol in sanitizing & in the medical industry, and in some foods (balsamic vinegar etc) would be OK, because there is Good in these things, and the intention is obviously good. However, drinking alcohol for leasure would be BAD because it can lead to Addiction, wasting Money (same thing with ciggarettes), and liver disease etc.God might not have 100% forbid alcohol, but he tells us to not throw ourselves into destruction! Alcohol & Ciggarette smoking & Drugs etc, are in a way throwing yourself into destruction because there is Addiction, Money waste, Time waste, Negative Body effects, Diseases etc.
Earlier generations might not have known the bad effects of using these things, but we do!
and so why would you choose to go down a road that you know will lead to Diseases, waste, and destruction???
Eating mud is not forbidden, but hey it's not a good idea -
Forbidding even the minute good in alcohol is itself a transgression of a rank far above and beyond any harm it could do. Forbidding the good is/related to kufr (5025, 6812).
Our task as followers of the creator's path is to enjoin good and forbid evil.
What little good of alcohol, broadcast it to the world.
What evil of alcohol, broadcast it to the world.
Alcohol is not inherently evil. Alcohol is inherently alcohol and evil is inherently evil.
-
First off, it sounds to me like you guys are blaming satan for your own choices.
Secondly, it sounds to me like you believe in satans illusions, which are often that he is an idol, of being cunning, of being strong etc. While in reality he is pitiful.
Atleast, some quran verses are qouted, where satan "has no power".
What happened to his intelligence then?
The verse is very correct, he has only power over associators. But then again other Quran verses, state that most are astray.
Most associate.
That you can correct by correcting your view on God.
Be sure to believe in a single God, that creates everything.
Etc, be sure that this god is the timeless, spaceless, immaterial paradox, allknowing, transcendent - good, merciful.. etc.
Master of judgement day.
How I feel about satan, is that he is a clown, and I have won over him a long time ago, but you know, you have to make some effort to stay there aswell. So there comes the concept of being godconscious, in the Quran.
Which I try to be all the time.
-
these are tha facts.
Harry potter is a wizard too. That's a fact. !
-
As for the comment about "Satan" and that we should not have anything to do with anything that Satan may use as a tool against us...You may as well disown your children and give up your money since God calls them a "fitna/trial" (828, 6415) and we know that "fitna/trial" is one of the tools of Satan (2253). We are a "balanced" nation - not one driven by extremes.
Dear Layth,
Alcohol is the enemy of brain and rational thinking. I disagree with your points and when I have time I would like to provide my reasons for them. But, here, I would like to respond to your last paragraph, quickly.
Fitna means TEST or DISCORD. Children and money, like other blessings, are tests and we should be careful not to idolize or preoccupied with our children and money. We fail the test by idolizing our children and money. We are not told that THEY ARE THE DEED OF SATAN, but preoccupation with them is.
As for intoxicants, the Quran clearly depicts it as the "deed of Satan".
The damage of alcohol to the society is huge and its benefit is so little. All drunk drivers, all alcoholics and all those who suffered and hurt others because of alcohol started with the mantra of "moderate drinking." Alcohol is addictive and you save yourself from the harm of alcohol by abstaining from it.
Your last statement is unfortunate, as if there is merit in using alcohol. Alcohol messes up people's "balance", both literally and intellectually.
Peace,
EdipAs for alcohol, we
-
The damage of alcohol to the society is huge and its benefit is so little. All drunk drivers, all alcoholics and all those who suffered and hurt others because of alcohol started with the mantra of "moderate drinking." Alcohol is addictive and you save yourself from the harm of alcohol by abstaining from it.
Dear Edip
Eventhough not addressed to me, I would like to ask you if I understood your point correctly.
You state alcohol is the deed of Satan, but you still do not say it is forbidden. Am I to interpret this as you share the view that "no, it is not stated as forbidden in the Quran, but it warns us to the full about the dangers"?
-
Peace,
There is a difference between "moderate drinking" which is simply a guise/rationalism of modern society for going out on the weekend and totally destroying one's mind and restricted/cautionary availability of alcohol.
Where people are going to want to drink/intoxicate, there is no way whatsoever to stop them fully. Just as we see with the War on Drugs.
It is NOT a sin to drink alcohol otherwise very simply, that verse about refraining from salat would have no need to exist. As we see the hadithists invent an explanation claiming that al-quran has an order based on the movements of the arabs of those times and IMO that distortion of al-quran is far bigger a transgression.
The state of intoxication on the other hand is something we are told to abstain from. A person who tends towards belief must turn and turn again towards their creator. Alcohol makes one turn away, tend toward disbelief. Therefore it is prohibited for the believers who wish to be full in their faith. Likewise you will not see a believer gamble. However that leaves the rest of the populace who still may incline towards it. Belief and disbelief are also states of mind, and the state of belief doesn't work with the state of intoxication just like happy doesn't mix with angry.
Alcohol and gambling are means to an evil end, they are not the evil itself. All their evils come from their consequences, not from direct effects. The condom can also be called handiwork of satan because it promotes mass promiscuity. But a condom is not evil in and of itself, but the end again, is very evil.
-
Dear Edip,
Fitna means TEST or DISCORD. Children and money, like other blessings, are tests and we should be careful not to idolize or preoccupied with our children and money. We fail the test by idolizing our children and money. We are not told that THEY ARE THE DEED OF SATAN, but preoccupation with them is.
As for intoxicants, the Quran clearly depicts it as the "deed of Satan".
It is the "effects" that carry the possibility of being "deeds of satan" (Rijs min amal alshaytan), and not the alcohol itself. A similar example can be found in 1764 where God tells us that satan may share in peoples wealth and children...that does not make these things (wealth, children) evil or satanic in themselves, but it means that satan can have influence over our dealing with such things to cause us more harm than good...
Going back to the subject at hand...Here is what our Prophet said when he was asked about their ruling
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit...?
No forbidden, no avoid...just a warning that they contain good and bad and that the bad typically outweighs the good.
Also, I know you are not a believer in the Sunni abrogation theory, so you are fully aware of the regulation of 443 that asks people not to approach Salat while intoxicated - which by default makes it clearly permisisble.
The damage of alcohol to the society is huge and its benefit is so little. All drunk drivers, all alcoholics and all those who suffered and hurt others because of alcohol started with the mantra of "moderate drinking." Alcohol is addictive and you save yourself from the harm of alcohol by abstaining from it.
This is a personal opinion and has nothing to do with the Quran or its laws...A person can likewise make similar medical and sceintific arguments to support circumcision or moral arguments to support cutting off the hands of theives or stoning women...But we all know that these arguments are meaningless when we are dealing with the truth (see 1036).
Regards,
-
It is the "effects" that carry the possibility of being "deeds of satan" (Rijs min amal alshaytan), and not the alcohol itself..........
No forbidden, no avoid...just a warning that they contain good and bad and that the bad typically outweighs the good.
Also, I know you are not a believer in the Sunni abrogation theory, so you are fully aware of the regulation of 443 that asks people not to approach Salat while intoxicated - which by default makes it clearly permisisble.
are the confusing/brain scattering/disconcerting/fidgeting filthy tactic from the act of Shaitan.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.090a.gif
Therefore you people avoid that/ confusing/brain scattering/disconcerting/fidgeting filthy act/Shaitan so that you people attain/reap the fruit of perpetual success........
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.091b.gif
In view of this would you people then be the abstainers of alcoholic drinks and gambling?Does it mean that discretion lies with the listeners to adjudge for themselves whether to consider it prohibited or allowed?
-
Yes, yes it does.
It is an OPEN QUESTION.
We ALREADY KNOW the answer is to abstain for those seeking paradise.
That does not mean alcohol is absolutely prohibited.
If it was, there would be no question. Like murder, zina, theft, riba.
Questions like this in the quran are a lot more subtle than you think. There is not always an immediately correct "right/wrong" answer even if it appears so, they are for the person to contemplate thoroughly. E.g. 761
These questions go deeper and deeper the more you look at them, that is WHY they are questions and not direct commandments.
-
Dear Mazhar,
I like how you conveintly ignored the clear verses of 2219 and 443 and stuck to dissecting 590-91 to make your statement.
-
The Quranic verses are to be taken as a "whole" (tarteel) for any subject to be properly studied. Ignoring even 1 verse may/will lead to wrong conclusions (see 20114, 734, 5101).
-
Your analysis of 590-91 is quite messy to put it kindly.
The word "avoid" returns to the shaitan/devil (the "ha" is the "dhameer" and not the objects or the rijs. Also, the question in 591 "will you cease/be deterred" is a reference to the Salat not not the alcohol as you inserted in the translation.
590 O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and sacraments, and fortunes are an affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred? -
-
Yes, yes it does.
It is an OPEN QUESTION.
We ALREADY KNOW the answer is to abstain for those seeking paradise.
That does not mean alcohol is absolutely prohibited.
After the injunction/imperative verb to get away from drinking, the past is condoned by it
There is nothing embarrassing/contracting for those who have accepted/believed and acted righteously as to what they had eaten and drank earlier when they returned repenting and believed and did righteous acts;
592Let us see what is permissible
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.004c.gif
They ask you, the Messenger what was/has been made permissible for them?http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.004d.gif
You tell them, "tayyi'baate" were/have been made permissible/lawful for you people"Can someone declare "Rijis" as being one of "tayyi'baate" to consider it permissible?
-
Rijis =/= khamr
Do not ignore the logical connection between things.
When we ignore the dynamic nature of words we fix them into stone and turn them into idols for worship. So many True Muslims, True Christians in the world, and they are all nothing but True Hypocrites.
(The sentence will be "Throw, throw into Hell every contumacious Rejecter (of Allah)!-
"Who forbade what was good, transgressed all bounds , cast doubts and suspicions;What we forbid and what we permit are both routes to the fire.
As for 590, is it not more correct to interpret it as "Will you then abstain from khamr?" AND "Will you then abstain from dhikr/salat"? Hence the open ended question which some will interpret as either or both.
Keep in mind, not everyone is seeking paradise (7179, 7038-39). Al-quran seeks the perfect state where all are satisfied yet unhindered by their nature, even if it does involve the party of good annihilating the party of evil.
Alcohol is the work of ALLAH, its evil is the work of Satan.
-
Alcohol ( an intoxicant ) is not forbidden in the Quran however the Quran does not fail in saying that the benefits are insignificant when compared to its harm. Scientifically this is 100% true. So why should there be any argument about it??? Yes the Quran does not forbid Alcohol but that does not mean it is beneficial for us to consume. God has given this choice to the believer. For me personally I would not drink it neither would I encourage people to drink it either. This is my personal preference. There is absolutely nothing wrong in saying that Alcohol is bad for you since it is not the same as saying that it is forbidden.
It is my personal belief that consuming harmful substances knowing full well that the harm outweighs the benefits is not the trait of an intelligent believer. Intelligence would dictate that one would want to use the body which God has given us to it fullest potential and not willfully infilct harm upon it. Again this is my belief. I am not in any way, shape or form saying that Alcohol is forbidden. All I'm saying is that as a believer one should exercise some type of intelligence.
Peace,
Kevin.
-
"Yes the Quran does not forbid Alcohol but that does not mean it is beneficial for us to consume"
Again, it has been said again and again, THERE IS SOME BENEFIT to khamr. These words are not coming from any of our mouths, they are coming from your guardian lord who created the entire universe and might know a thing or two about what He says.
"It is my personal belief that consuming harmful substances knowing full well that the harm outweighs the benefits is not the trait of an intelligent believer"
An intelligent person of truth would use the full available benefit of khamr to its maximal potential without overstepping the boundary.
Intelligence is knowing the limits and knowing how to tightrope walk the boundary. Why are you all so afraid of getting hurt? The punishment of the creator is far beyond any punishment this reality could possibly throw at us.
Alcohol allowed =/= alcohol abuse allowed. Al-quran explicitly forbids alcohol abuse and explicitly allows alcohol.
How hard is it to understand that a substance CANNOT be "illegal" in God's law? If it was "illegal" for the believers it would not exist. Try to understand what I am saying here. Pork is allowed for disbelievers but not believers. But pork is not "illegal", pork is a living creature which cannot be illegal. So what truly is illegal is the slaying of pigs for food.
-
Dear Edip,
It is the "effects" that carry the possibility of being "deeds of satan" (Rijs min amal alshaytan), and not the alcohol itself. A similar example can be found in 1764 where God tells us that satan may share in peoples wealth and children...that does not make these things (wealth, children) evil or satanic in themselves, but it means that satan can have influence over our dealing with such things to cause us more harm than good...
Going back to the subject at hand...Here is what our Prophet said when he was asked about their ruling
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit...?
No forbidden, no avoid...just a warning that they contain good and bad and that the bad typically outweighs the good.
Also, I know you are not a believer in the Sunni abrogation theory, so you are fully aware of the regulation of 443 that asks people not to approach Salat while intoxicated - which by default makes it clearly permisisble.
This is a personal opinion and has nothing to do with the Quran or its laws...A person can likewise make similar medical and sceintific arguments to support circumcision or moral arguments to support cutting off the hands of theives or stoning women...But we all know that these arguments are meaningless when we are dealing with the truth (see 1036).
Regards,
Salam Layth,
I never understood the part about the way you and many other people I know interprete the ayaat about not holding Salat while you are intoxicated. How does that make drinking or any form of intoxicants "Halal" ? Doesn't the verse simply show you that if you are not mindfull in your Salat, its pointless, so there is no use of holding it if you are intoxicated ? We all wish to be mindful of our Salat, so naturally, one can't claim to conduct Salat if he is drunk and his brain unable to function properly.
590 O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and sacraments, and fortunes are an affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred?So in 590, we are briefed about some tools of Satan and asked to avoid Satan. The way I interpreted that is the way the verse is composed, God giving me informations of the weapons of Satan and asking me to avoid him means to avoid those mentioned weapons of Satan. Otherwise, Satan is not exactly my class mate that I simply avoid him by not talking or dealing with him. Not avoiding those weapons pointed out in the biginning of the ayaat renders their mention utterly useless from what I can see.
The next ayaat, 591, its providing further details about the use of gambling and intoxicants by Satan to derail us and drive us to conflict. How can one ask me to interprete it in a way where Alcohol is OK but Satan is not OK, so avoid Satan, but not Alcohol ?
As far as I know, Alcohol is not food, why then risk such damage to your body and potential social misconduct when we are clearly briefed that this is used as vessel by the Devil ?
And the negative impact of alcohol on societies ,as far as I know is not "OPINION". You dont deny the well founded link between intoxicants like that an violent crimes and crimes in general , do you ? (by the way, I am not saying that THUS its Haram..lol)
Please share your thoughts, and why you think what you think about this subject
PEACE be on you
----------------------- Student of Allah
-
Salam Student,
I never understood the part about the way you and many other people I know interprete the ayaat about not holding Salat while you are intoxicated. How does that make drinking or any form of intoxicants "Halal" ? Doesn't the verse simply show you that if you are not mindfull in your Salat, its pointless, so there is no use of holding it if you are intoxicated ? We all wish to be mindful of our Salat, so naturally, one can't claim to conduct Salat if he is drunk and his brain unable to function properly.
The logic is quite simple. As you are aware, a person is classified according to the Quran in 1 of 5 categories (http//free-minds.org/5-types-people-quran). These categories are interchangable as a person may slip in and out at any time by his/her actions & words.
Now, in verse 443, God is speaking to the highest category (beleivers/mumineen) and He is telling them not to approach Salat if they are intoxicated. Thus, the logic in the verse dictates that a person not only can drink alcohol, but he/she can even reach a state of "intoxiation" and still be called by God a believer/mumin - meaning that this action of being intoxicated has not carried in it any sin or fall from grace or change of state and that the Mumin/believer is adhering to the laws of the Quran fully (according to the Quran, not judging by the Quran makes a person in the category of "Kaffir" see 544, which these people are obviously not).
590 O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and sacraments, and fortunes are an affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred?So in 590, we are briefed about some tools of Satan and asked to avoid Satan. The way I interpreted that is the way the verse is composed, God giving me informations of the weapons of Satan and asking me to avoid him means to avoid those mentioned weapons of Satan. Otherwise, Satan is not exactly my class mate that I simply avoid him by not talking or dealing with him. Not avoiding those weapons pointed out in the biginning of the ayaat renders their mention utterly useless from what I can see.
Why are you making the leap from "avoid him" to "avoid them"? God is very precise in what He chooses to say. Satan as I have pointed out has access to many tools (one of them being our own children) - that does not negatively impact our view of our children, but it impacts our view of Satan who is so low and evil that he would use our own innocent offsprings against us. It is a mercy that God points out to us what tools Satan may make use of so that we are on our guard - hence I say that drinking alcohol in the Quran is permitted but with "caution" given so as to avoid the pitfalls - just like "caution" is given against being too stingy or too generous.
The next ayaat, 591, its providing further details about the use of gambling and intoxicants by Satan to derail us and drive us to conflict. How can one ask me to interprete it in a way where Alcohol is OK but Satan is not OK, so avoid Satan, but not Alcohol ?
Rivers of alcohol exist in heaven...Would alcohol exist if it were inherintly evil/bad and must be avoided - is their pork in heaven? Obviously it is Satan that is the problem here - not the item itself.
As far as I know, Alcohol is not food, why then risk such damage to your body and potential social misconduct when we are clearly briefed that this is used as vessel by the Devil ?
And the negative impact of alcohol on societies ,as far as I know is not "OPINION". You dont deny the well founded link between intoxicants like that an violent crimes and crimes in general , do you ? (by the way, I am not saying that THUS its Haram..lol)
Please share your thoughts, and why you think what you think about this subject
If there are 2 people in a room, then you would get as many opinons. The only authority we should care about is God's, and He states that the harm of alcohol comes from Satan using it to deter people from Salat and causing strife between them (see 591) thus these are the risks that we should alert ourselves and people to.
An Islamic society ruled by the Quran is one that allows alcohol to be served/used, but is to be "regulated" so as to avoid the pitfalls that Satan is known to exploit.
