Alcohol
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The damage of alcohol to the society is huge and its benefit is so little. All drunk drivers, all alcoholics and all those who suffered and hurt others because of alcohol started with the mantra of "moderate drinking." Alcohol is addictive and you save yourself from the harm of alcohol by abstaining from it.
Dear Edip
Eventhough not addressed to me, I would like to ask you if I understood your point correctly.
You state alcohol is the deed of Satan, but you still do not say it is forbidden. Am I to interpret this as you share the view that "no, it is not stated as forbidden in the Quran, but it warns us to the full about the dangers"?
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Peace,
There is a difference between "moderate drinking" which is simply a guise/rationalism of modern society for going out on the weekend and totally destroying one's mind and restricted/cautionary availability of alcohol.
Where people are going to want to drink/intoxicate, there is no way whatsoever to stop them fully. Just as we see with the War on Drugs.
It is NOT a sin to drink alcohol otherwise very simply, that verse about refraining from salat would have no need to exist. As we see the hadithists invent an explanation claiming that al-quran has an order based on the movements of the arabs of those times and IMO that distortion of al-quran is far bigger a transgression.
The state of intoxication on the other hand is something we are told to abstain from. A person who tends towards belief must turn and turn again towards their creator. Alcohol makes one turn away, tend toward disbelief. Therefore it is prohibited for the believers who wish to be full in their faith. Likewise you will not see a believer gamble. However that leaves the rest of the populace who still may incline towards it. Belief and disbelief are also states of mind, and the state of belief doesn't work with the state of intoxication just like happy doesn't mix with angry.
Alcohol and gambling are means to an evil end, they are not the evil itself. All their evils come from their consequences, not from direct effects. The condom can also be called handiwork of satan because it promotes mass promiscuity. But a condom is not evil in and of itself, but the end again, is very evil.
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Dear Edip,
Fitna means TEST or DISCORD. Children and money, like other blessings, are tests and we should be careful not to idolize or preoccupied with our children and money. We fail the test by idolizing our children and money. We are not told that THEY ARE THE DEED OF SATAN, but preoccupation with them is.
As for intoxicants, the Quran clearly depicts it as the "deed of Satan".
It is the "effects" that carry the possibility of being "deeds of satan" (Rijs min amal alshaytan), and not the alcohol itself. A similar example can be found in 1764 where God tells us that satan may share in peoples wealth and children...that does not make these things (wealth, children) evil or satanic in themselves, but it means that satan can have influence over our dealing with such things to cause us more harm than good...
Going back to the subject at hand...Here is what our Prophet said when he was asked about their ruling
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit...?
No forbidden, no avoid...just a warning that they contain good and bad and that the bad typically outweighs the good.
Also, I know you are not a believer in the Sunni abrogation theory, so you are fully aware of the regulation of 443 that asks people not to approach Salat while intoxicated - which by default makes it clearly permisisble.
The damage of alcohol to the society is huge and its benefit is so little. All drunk drivers, all alcoholics and all those who suffered and hurt others because of alcohol started with the mantra of "moderate drinking." Alcohol is addictive and you save yourself from the harm of alcohol by abstaining from it.
This is a personal opinion and has nothing to do with the Quran or its laws...A person can likewise make similar medical and sceintific arguments to support circumcision or moral arguments to support cutting off the hands of theives or stoning women...But we all know that these arguments are meaningless when we are dealing with the truth (see 1036).
Regards,
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It is the "effects" that carry the possibility of being "deeds of satan" (Rijs min amal alshaytan), and not the alcohol itself..........
No forbidden, no avoid...just a warning that they contain good and bad and that the bad typically outweighs the good.
Also, I know you are not a believer in the Sunni abrogation theory, so you are fully aware of the regulation of 443 that asks people not to approach Salat while intoxicated - which by default makes it clearly permisisble.
are the confusing/brain scattering/disconcerting/fidgeting filthy tactic from the act of Shaitan.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.090a.gif
Therefore you people avoid that/ confusing/brain scattering/disconcerting/fidgeting filthy act/Shaitan so that you people attain/reap the fruit of perpetual success........
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.091b.gif
In view of this would you people then be the abstainers of alcoholic drinks and gambling?Does it mean that discretion lies with the listeners to adjudge for themselves whether to consider it prohibited or allowed?
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Yes, yes it does.
It is an OPEN QUESTION.
We ALREADY KNOW the answer is to abstain for those seeking paradise.
That does not mean alcohol is absolutely prohibited.
If it was, there would be no question. Like murder, zina, theft, riba.
Questions like this in the quran are a lot more subtle than you think. There is not always an immediately correct "right/wrong" answer even if it appears so, they are for the person to contemplate thoroughly. E.g. 761
These questions go deeper and deeper the more you look at them, that is WHY they are questions and not direct commandments.
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Dear Mazhar,
I like how you conveintly ignored the clear verses of 2219 and 443 and stuck to dissecting 590-91 to make your statement.
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The Quranic verses are to be taken as a "whole" (tarteel) for any subject to be properly studied. Ignoring even 1 verse may/will lead to wrong conclusions (see 20114, 734, 5101).
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Your analysis of 590-91 is quite messy to put it kindly.
The word "avoid" returns to the shaitan/devil (the "ha" is the "dhameer" and not the objects or the rijs. Also, the question in 591 "will you cease/be deterred" is a reference to the Salat not not the alcohol as you inserted in the translation.
590 O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and sacraments, and fortunes are an affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred? -
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Yes, yes it does.
It is an OPEN QUESTION.
We ALREADY KNOW the answer is to abstain for those seeking paradise.
That does not mean alcohol is absolutely prohibited.
After the injunction/imperative verb to get away from drinking, the past is condoned by it
There is nothing embarrassing/contracting for those who have accepted/believed and acted righteously as to what they had eaten and drank earlier when they returned repenting and believed and did righteous acts;
592Let us see what is permissible
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.004c.gif
They ask you, the Messenger what was/has been made permissible for them?http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.004d.gif
You tell them, "tayyi'baate" were/have been made permissible/lawful for you people"Can someone declare "Rijis" as being one of "tayyi'baate" to consider it permissible?
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Rijis =/= khamr
Do not ignore the logical connection between things.
When we ignore the dynamic nature of words we fix them into stone and turn them into idols for worship. So many True Muslims, True Christians in the world, and they are all nothing but True Hypocrites.
(The sentence will be "Throw, throw into Hell every contumacious Rejecter (of Allah)!-
"Who forbade what was good, transgressed all bounds , cast doubts and suspicions;What we forbid and what we permit are both routes to the fire.
As for 590, is it not more correct to interpret it as "Will you then abstain from khamr?" AND "Will you then abstain from dhikr/salat"? Hence the open ended question which some will interpret as either or both.
Keep in mind, not everyone is seeking paradise (7179, 7038-39). Al-quran seeks the perfect state where all are satisfied yet unhindered by their nature, even if it does involve the party of good annihilating the party of evil.
Alcohol is the work of ALLAH, its evil is the work of Satan.
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Alcohol ( an intoxicant ) is not forbidden in the Quran however the Quran does not fail in saying that the benefits are insignificant when compared to its harm. Scientifically this is 100% true. So why should there be any argument about it??? Yes the Quran does not forbid Alcohol but that does not mean it is beneficial for us to consume. God has given this choice to the believer. For me personally I would not drink it neither would I encourage people to drink it either. This is my personal preference. There is absolutely nothing wrong in saying that Alcohol is bad for you since it is not the same as saying that it is forbidden.
It is my personal belief that consuming harmful substances knowing full well that the harm outweighs the benefits is not the trait of an intelligent believer. Intelligence would dictate that one would want to use the body which God has given us to it fullest potential and not willfully infilct harm upon it. Again this is my belief. I am not in any way, shape or form saying that Alcohol is forbidden. All I'm saying is that as a believer one should exercise some type of intelligence.
Peace,
Kevin.
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"Yes the Quran does not forbid Alcohol but that does not mean it is beneficial for us to consume"
Again, it has been said again and again, THERE IS SOME BENEFIT to khamr. These words are not coming from any of our mouths, they are coming from your guardian lord who created the entire universe and might know a thing or two about what He says.
"It is my personal belief that consuming harmful substances knowing full well that the harm outweighs the benefits is not the trait of an intelligent believer"
An intelligent person of truth would use the full available benefit of khamr to its maximal potential without overstepping the boundary.
Intelligence is knowing the limits and knowing how to tightrope walk the boundary. Why are you all so afraid of getting hurt? The punishment of the creator is far beyond any punishment this reality could possibly throw at us.
Alcohol allowed =/= alcohol abuse allowed. Al-quran explicitly forbids alcohol abuse and explicitly allows alcohol.
How hard is it to understand that a substance CANNOT be "illegal" in God's law? If it was "illegal" for the believers it would not exist. Try to understand what I am saying here. Pork is allowed for disbelievers but not believers. But pork is not "illegal", pork is a living creature which cannot be illegal. So what truly is illegal is the slaying of pigs for food.
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Dear Edip,
It is the "effects" that carry the possibility of being "deeds of satan" (Rijs min amal alshaytan), and not the alcohol itself. A similar example can be found in 1764 where God tells us that satan may share in peoples wealth and children...that does not make these things (wealth, children) evil or satanic in themselves, but it means that satan can have influence over our dealing with such things to cause us more harm than good...
Going back to the subject at hand...Here is what our Prophet said when he was asked about their ruling
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit...?
No forbidden, no avoid...just a warning that they contain good and bad and that the bad typically outweighs the good.
Also, I know you are not a believer in the Sunni abrogation theory, so you are fully aware of the regulation of 443 that asks people not to approach Salat while intoxicated - which by default makes it clearly permisisble.
This is a personal opinion and has nothing to do with the Quran or its laws...A person can likewise make similar medical and sceintific arguments to support circumcision or moral arguments to support cutting off the hands of theives or stoning women...But we all know that these arguments are meaningless when we are dealing with the truth (see 1036).
Regards,
Salam Layth,
I never understood the part about the way you and many other people I know interprete the ayaat about not holding Salat while you are intoxicated. How does that make drinking or any form of intoxicants "Halal" ? Doesn't the verse simply show you that if you are not mindfull in your Salat, its pointless, so there is no use of holding it if you are intoxicated ? We all wish to be mindful of our Salat, so naturally, one can't claim to conduct Salat if he is drunk and his brain unable to function properly.
590 O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and sacraments, and fortunes are an affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred?So in 590, we are briefed about some tools of Satan and asked to avoid Satan. The way I interpreted that is the way the verse is composed, God giving me informations of the weapons of Satan and asking me to avoid him means to avoid those mentioned weapons of Satan. Otherwise, Satan is not exactly my class mate that I simply avoid him by not talking or dealing with him. Not avoiding those weapons pointed out in the biginning of the ayaat renders their mention utterly useless from what I can see.
The next ayaat, 591, its providing further details about the use of gambling and intoxicants by Satan to derail us and drive us to conflict. How can one ask me to interprete it in a way where Alcohol is OK but Satan is not OK, so avoid Satan, but not Alcohol ?
As far as I know, Alcohol is not food, why then risk such damage to your body and potential social misconduct when we are clearly briefed that this is used as vessel by the Devil ?
And the negative impact of alcohol on societies ,as far as I know is not "OPINION". You dont deny the well founded link between intoxicants like that an violent crimes and crimes in general , do you ? (by the way, I am not saying that THUS its Haram..lol)
Please share your thoughts, and why you think what you think about this subject
PEACE be on you
----------------------- Student of Allah
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Salam Student,
I never understood the part about the way you and many other people I know interprete the ayaat about not holding Salat while you are intoxicated. How does that make drinking or any form of intoxicants "Halal" ? Doesn't the verse simply show you that if you are not mindfull in your Salat, its pointless, so there is no use of holding it if you are intoxicated ? We all wish to be mindful of our Salat, so naturally, one can't claim to conduct Salat if he is drunk and his brain unable to function properly.
The logic is quite simple. As you are aware, a person is classified according to the Quran in 1 of 5 categories (http//free-minds.org/5-types-people-quran). These categories are interchangable as a person may slip in and out at any time by his/her actions & words.
Now, in verse 443, God is speaking to the highest category (beleivers/mumineen) and He is telling them not to approach Salat if they are intoxicated. Thus, the logic in the verse dictates that a person not only can drink alcohol, but he/she can even reach a state of "intoxiation" and still be called by God a believer/mumin - meaning that this action of being intoxicated has not carried in it any sin or fall from grace or change of state and that the Mumin/believer is adhering to the laws of the Quran fully (according to the Quran, not judging by the Quran makes a person in the category of "Kaffir" see 544, which these people are obviously not).
590 O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and sacraments, and fortunes are an affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred?So in 590, we are briefed about some tools of Satan and asked to avoid Satan. The way I interpreted that is the way the verse is composed, God giving me informations of the weapons of Satan and asking me to avoid him means to avoid those mentioned weapons of Satan. Otherwise, Satan is not exactly my class mate that I simply avoid him by not talking or dealing with him. Not avoiding those weapons pointed out in the biginning of the ayaat renders their mention utterly useless from what I can see.
Why are you making the leap from "avoid him" to "avoid them"? God is very precise in what He chooses to say. Satan as I have pointed out has access to many tools (one of them being our own children) - that does not negatively impact our view of our children, but it impacts our view of Satan who is so low and evil that he would use our own innocent offsprings against us. It is a mercy that God points out to us what tools Satan may make use of so that we are on our guard - hence I say that drinking alcohol in the Quran is permitted but with "caution" given so as to avoid the pitfalls - just like "caution" is given against being too stingy or too generous.
The next ayaat, 591, its providing further details about the use of gambling and intoxicants by Satan to derail us and drive us to conflict. How can one ask me to interprete it in a way where Alcohol is OK but Satan is not OK, so avoid Satan, but not Alcohol ?
Rivers of alcohol exist in heaven...Would alcohol exist if it were inherintly evil/bad and must be avoided - is their pork in heaven? Obviously it is Satan that is the problem here - not the item itself.
As far as I know, Alcohol is not food, why then risk such damage to your body and potential social misconduct when we are clearly briefed that this is used as vessel by the Devil ?
And the negative impact of alcohol on societies ,as far as I know is not "OPINION". You dont deny the well founded link between intoxicants like that an violent crimes and crimes in general , do you ? (by the way, I am not saying that THUS its Haram..lol)
Please share your thoughts, and why you think what you think about this subject
If there are 2 people in a room, then you would get as many opinons. The only authority we should care about is God's, and He states that the harm of alcohol comes from Satan using it to deter people from Salat and causing strife between them (see 591) thus these are the risks that we should alert ourselves and people to.
An Islamic society ruled by the Quran is one that allows alcohol to be served/used, but is to be "regulated" so as to avoid the pitfalls that Satan is known to exploit.
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Layeth
The source of this news, please.
I guess the most obvious one would be the drinking of wine at the last supper, and how Christians often drink from the chalice at communion (or is it mass? not sure at all on this though.)
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I guess the most obvious one would be the drinking of wine at the last supper, and how Christians often drink from the chalice at communion (or is it mass? not sure at all on this though.)
Dear all
http//www.gotquestions.org/sin-alcohol.html
Question "What does the Bible say about drinking alcohol / wine? Is it a sin for a Christian to drink alcohol / wine?"
Answer Scripture has much to say regarding the drinking of alcohol (Leviticus 109; Numbers 63; Deuteronomy 296; Judges 134, 7, 14; Proverbs 201; 314; Isaiah 511, 22; 249; 287; 299; 5612). However, Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 97 instructs, ?Drink your wine with a merry heart.? Psalm 10414-15 states that God gives wine ?that makes glad the heart of men.? Amos 914 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God?s blessing. Isaiah 551 encourages, ?Yes, come buy wine and milk??
What God commands Christians regarding alcohol is to avoid drunkenness (Ephesians 51. The Bible condemns drunkenness and its effects (Proverbs 2329-35). Christians are also commanded to not allow their bodies to be ?mastered? by anything (1 Corinthians 612; 2 Peter 219). Drinking alcohol in excess is undeniably addictive. Scripture also forbids a Christian from doing anything that might offend other Christians or encourage them to sin against their conscience (1 Corinthians 89-13). In light of these principles, it would be extremely difficult for any Christian to say he is drinking alcohol in excess to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 1031).
Jesus changed water into wine. It even seems that Jesus drank wine on occasion (John 21-11; Matthew 2629). In New Testament times, the water was not very clean. Without modern sanitation, the water was often filled with bacteria, viruses, and all kinds of contaminants. The same is true in many third-world countries today. As a result, people often drank wine (or grape juice) because it was far less likely to be contaminated. In 1 Timothy 523, Paul was instructing Timothy to stop drinking the water (which was probably causing his stomach problems) and instead drink wine. In that day, wine was fermented (containing alcohol), but not necessarily to the degree it is today. It is incorrect to say that it was grape juice, but it is also incorrect to say that it was the same thing as the wine commonly used today. Again, Scripture does not forbid Christians from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. Alcohol is not, in and of itself, tainted by sin. It is drunkenness and addiction to alcohol that a Christian must absolutely refrain from (Ephesians 518; 1 Corinthians 612).
Alcohol, consumed in small quantities, is neither harmful nor addictive. In fact, some doctors advocate drinking small amounts of red wine for its health benefits, especially for the heart. Consumption of small quantities of alcohol is a matter of Christian freedom. Drunkenness and addiction are sin. However, due to the biblical concerns regarding alcohol and its effects, due to the easy temptation to consume alcohol in excess, and due to the possibility of causing offense and/or stumbling of others, it is usually best for a Christian to abstain entirely from drinking alcohol.
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Peace Everyone & May God solve our disputes!
Can we conclude that God does not forbid Alcohol in the Quran, but that he advizes us to deter from it (i.e 591) and not consume it around prayer times, so to not be intoxicated around prayers?Some Wisdom if something leads you to sin and commit mischief, would you not learn from your lesson and be detered from it?
Thus you'd have to be very Cousious if you decide to Consume alcohol, as not to become intoxicated around salat times, and be worry of the fact that it can lead to addiction, and loss of consciousness, and mobility, and not driving while you are intoxicated (putting yourself in greater risk; but hey seek God's refuge and protection), and money waste, time waste, and skewed priorities.God gives us a choice of this life or the Afterlife! make better choices; set your priorities now!
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Peace Everyone & May God solve our disputes!
Can we conclude that God does not forbid Alcohol in the Quran, but that he advizes us to deter from it (i.e 591) and not consume it around prayer times, so to not be intoxicated around prayers?Some Wisdom if something leads you to sin and commit mischief, would you not learn from your lesson and be detered from it?
Thus you'd have to be very Cousious if you decide to Consume alcohol, as not to become intoxicated around salat times, and be worry of the fact that it can lead to addiction, and loss of consciousness, and mobility, and not driving while you are intoxicated (putting yourself in greater risk; but hey seek God's refuge and protection), and money waste, time waste, and skewed priorities.God gives us a choice of this life or the Afterlife! make better choices; set your priorities now!
My point exactly. I don't know what the whole fuss is about. The verses dealing with intoxicants are very simple. All the Quran is saying is that intoxicants does more harm than good (basic laymen terms). It is a fact. Doctors say it , Scientist say it, we have seen how people are ruined by it what more proof do you need. No intoxicants are not forbidden but that does not mean overall that it is good for us. If that were the case then God would not have said that it does more harm than good. In the end its up to believer to decide what he wants to do. For me personally I would avoid intoxicants because it is unhealthy and not beneficial for the body in the long run.
Peace,
Kevin
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All the Quran is saying is that intoxicants does more harm than good (basic laymen terms). It is a fact. Doctors say it , Scientist say it, we have seen how people are ruined by it what more proof do you need.
KevinThanks for your kind agreement!
I also agree with Emil about the Bible's wisdom about Alcohol.
Alcohol is now very ubiquitous and falling into addiction is very easy!
I've seen people drink and the intoxicated outcome DETERS me from drinking.
Thus even if God doesn't 100% forbid us from drinking, He most definitely gives us the warning to not Abuse it! It is thus a test! a
I like the new article posted about the "5 types of people in the Quran"
?The believers are indeed successful. Those who are humble in their contact prayer. And they abstain from vain talk. And they are active towards betterment.? (231-4) -
My point exactly. I don't know what the whole fuss is about. The verses dealing with intoxicants are very simple. All the Quran is saying is that intoxicants does more harm than good (basic laymen terms). It is a fact. Doctors say it , Scientist say it, we have seen how people are ruined by it what more proof do you need. No intoxicants are not forbidden but that does not mean overall that it is good for us. If that were the case then God would not have said that it does more harm than good. In the end its up to believer to decide what he wants to do. For me personally I would avoid intoxicants because it is unhealthy and not beneficial for the body in the long run.
Peace,
Kevin
It is a far more complex argument than you think. It's not just alcohol but intoxicants/altered states in general. Suppose there were some modern quranic society constructed, how that leadership dealt with this would be one of the hallmarks of their knowledge/trustworthiness. While for an individual it is rather obvious what God has said, think about drug/alcohol supply in general. There is a huge amount of money in intoxicants and society has proven time and time again that when intoxicants are banned, organized crime families take over and carry it through anyway, blazing a far bigger trail of destruction.
All the arguments for prohibition are along the lines of
A - "I am afraid of drunks being everywhere and dirtying my reality"
B - "Drunks cause violence and death"
C - "I don't like alcohol therefore it is haram"Not a single one of these arguments has any quranic backing for explicit prohibition. The fact of implicit or explicit prohibition is a big deal on a global scale, even if it means very little to the individual. It is simply unjust to forbid something that ALLAH has allowed. I have posted the verses that show that people who forbid the good are denizens of hell. I used to argue strictly against alcohol myself but now I see I was wrong.
Nowhere does ALLAH say "alcohol is allowed for everyone, it's really good, just go out every weekend and get lashed but make sure you come back in time for prayer", it says moderation, caution, abstinence. There is a big difference between the two and people are reading their own fears into the quran, justified or not. If we read our own fears into the quran in other aspects, not a single verse would make sense. Projecting your own fears into al-quran is how a devout muslim can search for decades and STILL question if ALLAH even exists. This is where all the sectarian conservatism & totalitarianism comes from, men afraid that al-quran doesn't explain itself, that it needs to be explained, that because they are afraid of their own sin someone must tell them what to do every waking second and how to do it. So instead they turn to other men for guidance. Tell me, does that make sense?
Al-quran needs sure TRUST, trust that creator knows the just path.
"God gives us a choice of this life or the Afterlife! make better choices; set your priorities now!"
Wise! Imagine you were doomed to repeat this life for eternity and this was the one time you would choose what reality you wanted to see. Makes your choices of the here and now a bit more precious!
Peace
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So if a glass of wine is legal, according to the Quran, what about hasish?
The ever so slight opium pipe? rotfl
