Alcohol
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It is a far more complex argument than you think. It's not just alcohol but intoxicants/altered states in general. Suppose there were some modern quranic society constructed, how that leadership dealt with this would be one of the hallmarks of their knowledge/trustworthiness. While for an individual it is rather obvious what God has said, think about drug/alcohol supply in general. There is a huge amount of money in intoxicants and society has proven time and time again that when intoxicants are banned, organized crime families take over and carry it through anyway, blazing a far bigger trail of destruction.
All the arguments for prohibition are along the lines of
A - "I am afraid of drunks being everywhere and dirtying my reality"
B - "Drunks cause violence and death"
C - "I don't like alcohol therefore it is haram"Not a single one of these arguments has any quranic backing for explicit prohibition. The fact of implicit or explicit prohibition is a big deal on a global scale, even if it means very little to the individual. It is simply unjust to forbid something that ALLAH has allowed. I have posted the verses that show that people who forbid the good are denizens of hell. I used to argue strictly against alcohol myself but now I see I was wrong.
Nowhere does ALLAH say "alcohol is allowed for everyone, it's really good, just go out every weekend and get lashed but make sure you come back in time for prayer", it says moderation, caution, abstinence. There is a big difference between the two and people are reading their own fears into the quran, justified or not. If we read our own fears into the quran in other aspects, not a single verse would make sense. Projecting your own fears into al-quran is how a devout muslim can search for decades and STILL question if ALLAH even exists. This is where all the sectarian conservatism & totalitarianism comes from, men afraid that al-quran doesn't explain itself, that it needs to be explained, that because they are afraid of their own sin someone must tell them what to do every waking second and how to do it. So instead they turn to other men for guidance. Tell me, does that make sense?
Al-quran needs sure TRUST, trust that creator knows the just path.
"God gives us a choice of this life or the Afterlife! make better choices; set your priorities now!"
Wise! Imagine you were doomed to repeat this life for eternity and this was the one time you would choose what reality you wanted to see. Makes your choices of the here and now a bit more precious!
Peace
Why are you still talking about prohibition??? As I have already said in my previous post nowhere does it say that Alcohol is haram. The point that I'm trying to get everyone to understand is that the Quran left the decision to the believer. The only reason why I highlight the non-benefits of consuming alcohol is because I personally do not see any sort of benefit in the consumption of it. In addition the Quran clearly says that the harm outweighs the benefits. So my personal stance is not to consume it. So why is there still debate in this issue about halal and haram??? The verses dealing with intoxicants are very simple to understand. I don't see the complexity that you're talking about. If I choose to highlight the non-benefits then that is my opinion. Having negative opinions compared to saying something is forbidden are two separate things. My personal opinion is that because the harm outweighs the benefit it would not be wise for a believer to consume intoxicants (like alcohol). A very simple and legal opinion within the laws of the Quran.
Peace,
Kevin
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Peace,
It is being contested "that the Quran left the decision to the believer" in this thread.
Some arguments call for total prohibition in a quran based society, some arguments go for caution/discretion.
Although I quoted you I was not replying only to your post.
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peace
Any sin small or big is Haram.Those who say that God didn?t made this sin that sin Haram they should read the below verse where the word of sin specifically has been used and God make it Haram
733- Say, "My Lord prohibits only evil deeds, be they obvious or hidden, and sins, and unjustifiable aggression, and to set up beside GOD powerless idols, and to say about GOD what you do not know."
And now see the same word as sin in 2219
2219- They ask you about intoxicants and gambling say, "In them there is a gross sin, and some benefits for the people. But their sinfulness far outweighs their benefit." ??.
Those who drink alcohol commit Haram for a small benefit?They sell their sous for a very cheap price
Peace -
Salam Student,
The logic is quite simple. As you are aware, a person is classified according to the Quran in 1 of 5 categories (http//free-minds.org/5-types-people-quran). These categories are interchangable as a person may slip in and out at any time by his/her actions & words.
Now, in verse 443, God is speaking to the highest category (beleivers/mumineen) and He is telling them not to approach Salat if they are intoxicated. Thus, the logic in the verse dictates that a person not only can drink alcohol, but he/she can even reach a state of "intoxiation" and still be called by God a believer/mumin - meaning that this action of being intoxicated has not carried in it any sin or fall from grace or change of state and that the Mumin/believer is adhering to the laws of the Quran fully (according to the Quran, not judging by the Quran makes a person in the category of "Kaffir" see 544, which these people are obviously not).
Why are you making the leap from "avoid him" to "avoid them"? God is very precise in what He chooses to say. Satan as I have pointed out has access to many tools (one of them being our own children) - that does not negatively impact our view of our children, but it impacts our view of Satan who is so low and evil that he would use our own innocent offsprings against us. It is a mercy that God points out to us what tools Satan may make use of so that we are on our guard - hence I say that drinking alcohol in the Quran is permitted but with "caution" given so as to avoid the pitfalls - just like "caution" is given against being too stingy or too generous.
Rivers of alcohol exist in heaven...Would alcohol exist if it were inherintly evil/bad and must be avoided - is their pork in heaven? Obviously it is Satan that is the problem here - not the item itself.
If there are 2 people in a room, then you would get as many opinons. The only authority we should care about is God's, and He states that the harm of alcohol comes from Satan using it to deter people from Salat and causing strife between them (see 591) thus these are the risks that we should alert ourselves and people to.
An Islamic society ruled by the Quran is one that allows alcohol to be served/used, but is to be "regulated" so as to avoid the pitfalls that Satan is known to exploit.
Salam,
I did not make a leap from "avoid him" to "avoid them" just like that. God gave details of Satan's weapons and asked to avoid him. Since Satan is not exactly a 5feet 11 inch dude that is my neighbour, I can only avoid him by avoiding the things he uses as vessels. God simply stating "avoid Satan" would be lacking in detail for us, since satan is not exactly a physical person like me and you. Thus He detailed His ayaat so that we know the devil's way of creating problems for us.
From what I can see, presence of alcohol in heaven does not provide any conclusive idea about the case. We know
672 The One who has created death and life, that He may test you, which of you will do better works? He is the Noble, the Forgiving.Paradise is not exactly our test ground.
We also know
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say "In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit."So in this test of life, how can a man consume intoxicants knowing that it harms us more than it benefits us ? Unless ofcourse he is not seeking transgression and seeking whatever benefit he can get out of it legally. Intoxicating narcotics can be consumed in situations to that demand their use in extreme situations( including medical purpose) where the good out weighs the bad. Most people would understand that. But to say that it is ok to consume them for entertainment and or along with food in moderation sounds implausible. If we are being tested based on free-will, and our choices determine the outcome, how can one even think that its ok to tamper your conciousness using narcotics and sit for the exam ?
I think we both would agree that its ok to serve Alcohol. What we dont agree is the way one can moderate intoxicants. For you, it depends on the person consuming the intoxicant I believe. And for me, the purpose of consumption is what requires moderation.
After all, God knows best. Thanks for sharing your views.
Peace
----------------- Student of Allah
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I was thinking more along the lines that everything has its use.
The benefit does not necessarily come from being intoxicated or even have anything to do with it. Rather a lot of intoxicating substances may have other health benefits and benefits unrelated to the body. Their intoxicant nature should not prevent us from harnessing their benefits.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
I was thinking more along the lines that everything has its use.
The benefit does not necessarily come from being intoxicated or even have anything to do with it. Rather a lot of intoxicating substances may have other health benefits and benefits unrelated to the body. Their intoxicant nature should not prevent us from harnessing their benefits.
Agreed.
WATER is an intoxicant. ) Similar to the situation with alcohol, a person that drinks too much water will get intoxicated. Oxygen is an intoxicant, too--as is nitrogen and most all gasses. With every breath we breath and with every drink we drink, we consume intoxicants. hmm It isn't humanly possible to avoid intoxicants--but it is more than possible to avoid intoxication, ISA.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Agreed.
WATER is an intoxicant. ) Similar to the situation with alcohol, a person that drinks too much water will get intoxicated. Oxygen is an intoxicant, too--as is nitrogen and most all gasses. With every breath we breath and with every drink we drink, we consume intoxicants. hmm It isn't humanly possible to avoid intoxicants--but it is more than possible to avoid intoxication, ISA.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
I have heard of this before.
Question How can intoxicants in Sura 2219 and Sura 590- 91 can be used to refer to water and air??? What sort of baseless argument is that??? The word KhaMaRa which means 'to cover' cannot be referring to air and water but rather substances that 'cover the mind'. So air and water is completely out of this category.
I highly doubt that the people during Muhammad's time when they asked him about intoxicants would be referring to 'water and air'. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to logically deduce that.
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say, "In them is great harm, and a benefit for people; but their harm is greater than their benefit." They ask you how much are they to give, say, "The excess." Thus, God clarifies for you the signs that you may think.
Are seeing my point??? Don't avoid the obvious.
Peace,
Kevin.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
I have heard of this before.
Question How can intoxicants in Sura 2219 and Sura 590- 91 can be used to refer to water and air??? What sort of baseless argument is that??? The word KhaMaRa which means 'to cover' cannot be referring to air and water but rather substances that 'cover the mind'. So air and water is completely out of this category.
I highly doubt that the people during Muhammad's time when they asked him about intoxicants would be referring to 'water and air'. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to logically deduce that.
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say, "In them is great harm, and a benefit for people; but their harm is greater than their benefit." They ask you how much are they to give, say, "The excess." Thus, God clarifies for you the signs that you may think.
Are seeing my point??? Don't avoid the obvious.
Peace,
Kevin.
@KDC501 An intoxicant causes intoxication. Water causes intoxication. Ergo, water is an intoxicant.
Alcohol is considered an intoxicant even in amounts incapable of producing intoxication--apply the same logic to water. Here are links about water intoxication and oxygen intoxication.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_intoxicationAlcohol is a liquid, so is water. Whether an intoxicant is a solid, liquid, plasma, or gas doesn't matter. It is the state of intoxication and not the intoxicant that matters. This is why it is normally okay to drink water, breath air, and enjoy a cup of coffee. They don't normally intoxicate.
The people of the time were not referring to crack cocaine either. Does that mean that crack cocaine is exempt, because it was not specifically referred too? "Intoxicants" is general in usage and includes ALL intoxicants--known and unknown, existing at the time or not.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
@KDC501 An intoxicant causes intoxication. Water causes intoxication. Ergo, water is an intoxicant.
Alcohol is considered an intoxicant even in amounts incapable of producing intoxication--apply the same logic to water. Here are links about water intoxication and oxygen intoxication.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_intoxicationAlcohol is a liquid, so is water. Whether an intoxicant is a solid, liquid, plasma, or gas doesn't matter. It is the state of intoxication and not the intoxicant that matters. This is why it is normally okay to drink water, breath air, and enjoy a cup of coffee. They don't normally intoxicate.
The people of the time were not referring to crack cocaine either. Does that mean that crack cocaine is exempt, because it was not specifically referred too? "Intoxicants" is general in usage and includes ALL intoxicants--known and unknown, existing at the time or not.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
The people during Muhammad's time when they asked him this question cannot be referring to WATER AND OXYGEN!! That is an illogical interpretation! How can water and oxygen be in the category of "great harm and very little benefit" when water and oxygen have more benefits than harm when consumed????
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say, "In them is great harm, and a benefit for people; but their harm is greater than their benefit." They ask you how much are they to give, say, "The excess." Thus, God clarifies for you the signs that you may think.
By context it is quite clear that the intoxicants mentioned in the Quran have to be referring to general intoxicants (like alcohol, and other drugs which have little or no use to the body when consumed hence, great harm , little benefit Water and oxygen does not fall in this category)
Why are you hiding the true interpretation when you know what it is??? This is not a complicated verse. You are taking a simple verse and making it complex.
In regards to other drugs not mentioned , as I said before believers should learn to exercise a bit of intelligence. Would a intelligent person willfully consume harmful products for the sake of leisure knowing full well that the harm outweighs the benefits???
Peace,
Kevin
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I'm not entirely sure where I stand on this matter yet (very interesting discussion though). However, I think we do need to refrain from seeing the word "intoxicants" and immediately associating it with alcohol and drugs.
Many things are intoxicating. As we all know, islam tends towards moderation. There have been plenty of research studies that show how eating fatty foods have the same effect on the brain as cocaine. COCAINE! Therefore, foods high in salt and cholesterol must also be attributed as intoxicants. Let me also remind you that obesity is climbing the tables as one of the biggest killers in the developed world. Not surprising really.
I'm not suggesting that fatty foods are allowed and thus alcohol should be. I am merely suggesting that intoxicants cannot simply be limited to such obvious examples. I think it would be a little foolish to do so.
"In them is great harm, and a benefit for people; but their harm is greater than their benefit."
Absolutely true.
Sources
http//edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/03/28/fatty.foods.brain/index.html
http//news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/07/110719-salt-cocaine-cravings-addiction-genes-brains-science/
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People can pick and choose their harms and benefits for as long as they like.
It's when they pick and choose their own preferences for society as a whole, that is wrong.
Correct, believers should apply their intelligence. However I would far rather apply my intelligence here and now without risk or temptation than to "apply my intelligence" as is on the spot. Calm intelligence succeeds, rash decisions always falter no matter how intelligent a person is. So let's apply our intelligence here and now so we don't have a much, much harder trial there and then.
There are not one but TWO sets of risks from abstinence/usage. One set of risks is being dominantly focused on, the "great harm". While you are totally forgetting about the risks of prohibiting the "minor benefit". If the great harm is an ocean and the minor benefit is a lake in proportion, it still does not befit us as intelligent ones to ignore the entire lake just by pointing and saying "look at the size of the ocean".
Dose dependence. Heavy dosage of anything will intoxicate. 0.025ml of alcohol will never intoxicate. A bottle containing 0.025ml of alcohol does not classify as "khamr" just as flipping a coin does not classify as "maysir". Water and oxygen at an intoxicating dose will cause great harm and a minor benefit too, they classify as "khamr". We have to understand that a substance represents potential, not actuality. A gun has never killed anyone, but many people have murdered each other.
Let me show you a perfect example the synthetic opioid impurity MPTP. This causes Parkinsons and guess how it was discovered? Someone was trying to get high on MPPP and they accidentally made some MPTP and contracted Parkinsons despite no genetic inclination. Now we can use the MPTP to research Parkinsons.
Whereas in this hypothetical conservative society, people would hear the headline "Man gets Parkinsons from taking drugs" and think "gasp drugs are bad" and close the entire line of inquiry. We see that is what has happened throughout society, many intoxicating substances have profound health & research benefits but they are "illegal" because they are intoxicants. The muslim world is totally stagnant in these lines of research and the western world is barely moving along.
Instead there is a drive to produce crappy synthetic analogue prescription pills that mask symptoms instead of using God-given plants that have a far more encompassing effect, all because someone declared a piece of energy to be "illegal". Can you declare a pig to be illegal because you cannot eat pork? Will we be imprisoning every pig in a quranic society because they are illegal? Things like mushrooms, LSD, MDMA, they all have incredible potential to treat depression/personality/stress/anxiety disorders. These studies are being held back because of their "intoxicant" nature. So instead the benefits alone are suppressed, people still intoxicate themselves all the same, their negative effects are rife. Because the criminals are going to make their money no matter who gets in the way, even God (it is His will).
Forbidding the good is as much a sin as allowing the bad, it is every bit as evil as an intrinsically bad deed. Both of these things fall under transgressing the limits. These are both punishable by Hell. Imagine living perfectly, avoiding every bad. But then you are placed in hell, because you forbade the good and while it was minor in your eyes, it most certainly was not to ALLAH.
If it was "illegal" in God's law, it wouldn't exist. It's illegal in God's law for a man to overpower God, do you see any men around that can create/destroy? No. Again, and again and again, this is not about the individual, the individual will behave exactly how they please, believer or non-believer. This is about society as a whole, where any small change in something always has massive effects on everything. Even a tax raise of 2% pushes some people who were just about comfortable into total poverty.
Peace
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I'm not entirely sure where I stand on this matter yet (very interesting discussion though). However, I think we do need to refrain from seeing the word "intoxicants" and immediately associating it with alcohol and drugs.
Many things are intoxicating. As we all know, islam tends towards moderation. There have been plenty of research studies that show how eating fatty foods have the same effect on the brain as cocaine. COCAINE! Therefore, foods high in salt and cholesterol must also be attributed as intoxicants. Let me also remind you that obesity is climbing the tables as one of the biggest killers in the developed world. Not surprising really.
I'm not suggesting that fatty foods are allowed and thus alcohol should be. I am merely suggesting that intoxicants cannot simply be limited to such obvious examples. I think it would be a little foolish to do so.
"In them is great harm, and a benefit for people; but their harm is greater than their benefit."
Absolutely true.
Sources
http//edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/03/28/fatty.foods.brain/index.html
http//news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/07/110719-salt-cocaine-cravings-addiction-genes-brains-science/
Why not the obvious examples??? Which group of people you know during 600AD would know that water and oxygen when consumed in high amounts can be lethal? Which person during 600AD knows about ?fatty food? as being ?intoxicating? ???? Hence if these things were not known during 600AD how can the answer to there question include fatty foods , water and oxygen????
They ask you about intoxicants and gambling (this was a question asked by the people during Muhammad's time) . Say, "In them is great harm, and a benefit for people; but their harm is greater than their benefit." They ask you how much are they to give, say, "The excess." Thus, God clarifies for you the signs that you may think.
Why are people taking simple verses out of context??? Use a bit of common sense.
Other Questions
591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you then desist?
How can water and oxygen repel people from remembering God??? What about fatty foods??? Can Kentucky Fried Chicken repel people from the remembrance of God???? Can KFC made by Colonel Sanders have that much influence to repel people from God and the contact prayer???? What about McDonald's and Long John Silver's ????
Is anyone seeing how absurd these arguments are?
The Quran is simple
5417 We made the Quran easy to learn. Do any of you wish to learn?
Nobody is not saying that you cannot drink alcohol or that it is forbidden to smoke crack. If anyone wants to do that then it is there own business. But do no twist God?s word when the interpretation is obvious and simple to understand.
Peace,
Kevin
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Did alcohol's intoxicating nature change between now and 5000 years ago? No, it's the same drunkenness.
Did fatty foods change between now and 5000 years ago? No, it's the same obesity.
Of course, a drowning man is suddenly very remembering of God like the atheist in a foxhole rotfl
Why do you wish to reduce quran to a set of answers to questions by a bunch of Arabs in the desert? They were not the first to call things "khamr".
"Can Kentucky Fried Chicken repel people from the remembrance of God?"
"Can Alcohol repel people from the remembrance of God?"
"Can insert inanimate material substance here repel people from the remembrance of God?"A bucket of KFC cannot even move. Neither can a bottle of wine.
When a person moves the KFC or the bottle of wine, then yes, surely yes, undeniably yes, they divert from the remembrance of God.
When that KFC fills the belly of someone with 65% body fat while another has 3% body fat and an empty belly on the other side of the world, then has God not been remembered. When the person with 65% body fat thinks "I am more deserving of MY fried chicken than those starving kids", then has KFC diverted from the remembrance of God.
When someone thinks "I deserve a reality where substances are illegal" while many suffer from easily treatable PTSD or cancers, then has God not been remembered. There is only one peace, do not make the peace into pieces.
5417 We made the Quran easy to learn. Do any of you wish to learn?
Well, do YOU wish to learn? It is not one sided a question. There is no "correct person" and "incorrect person". There is only the Sure Truth and opinion. Let them coincide. You percieve the absurdity because you are afraid of the results, just as a Sunni percieves quranist thought as absurdity because they too, are afraid of the results. It is human nature to be afraid of what we know not, even if it be truth.
Peace
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I think that the reason why this topic is so touchy for other people is because they themselves have some sort of dire need to further justify the consumption of alcohol and to place intoxicants (as mentioned in the Quran ) on the same level as water, love, oxygen etc. Perhaps they themselves are drinkers. Again those who wish to drink alcohol can do so anytime they please. So why stress yourself with nonsensical interpretation that are completely out of context???
Why do you wish to reduce quran to a set of answers to questions by a bunch of Arabs in the desert? They were not the first to call things "khamr".
How is it that you don't??? Why are you denying the obvious???
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say, "In them is great harm, and a benefit for people; but their harm is greater than their benefit." They ask you how much are they to give, say, "The excess." Thus, God clarifies for you the signs that you may think.
If I ask you a simple question don't I expect to get a simple response. When the people(Arabs) asked Muhammad this question I'm pretty sure that fatty foods , water , oxygen and love were not in there mind
I have the strange feeling that the people here who want to reduce Quranic verses to absurd interpretations are themselves drinkers.
Peace,
Kevin.
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Hi there,
Full discretion I have not had any alcohol in my life. Whether you believe me is none of my concern. But i will say that accusations like this are pointless and tiresome. I think all of us are simply trying to find the truth.
What do you think of this verse
"O you who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when you are drunken, till you know that which you utter,. ...." (4. An-Nisa 43).
And about rivers of wine flowing through heaven?
How about the fact that Allah has forbidden other forms of food very clearly
"Forbidden unto you are carrion and blood and swine-flesh.... (5. Al Ma' idah 3)
Whereas with alcohol, there appears to be, at least a certain amount more discretion given to the believer.
I am genuinely asking.
Thanks.
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Hi there,
Full discretion I have not had any alcohol in my life. Whether you believe me is none of my concern. But i will say that accusations like this are pointless and tiresome. I think all of us are simply trying to find the truth.
I was making assumptions and not accusations. Read my post again.
What do you think of this verse
"O you who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when you are drunken, till you know that which you utter,. ...." (4. An-Nisa 43).
And about rivers of wine flowing through heaven?
How about the fact that Allah has forbidden other forms of food very clearly
"Forbidden unto you are carrion and blood and swine-flesh.... (5. Al Ma' idah 3)
Whereas with alcohol, there appears to be, at least a certain amount more discretion given to the believer.
I am genuinely asking.
Thanks.
443 O you who acknowledge, do not come near the contact prayer while you are drunk, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless traveling, until you bathe. If you are ill, or traveling, or one of you come from the bathroom, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water then you shall seek clean soil and wipe your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving.
It means not to pray in state where you are not fully aware of what you are saying. Intoxication can lead to a person losing there state of reasoning.
? And about rivers of wine flowing through heaven? ?
I interpret this as having wine in heaven. So what's your point???
Again for the last time, Alcohol is NOT forbidden. What I have reason to debate about is the absurd interpretations being interpreted from Sura 2219 and Sura 590-91. Some may be doing so willfully while others may be doing so because they sincerely wish to understand the scripture.
Peace,
Kevin
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Peace,
For one we are indeed discussing "forbidden" in the context of 590/1 and 2219. If you agree that 443 refers to states of intoxication then it must necessarily be agreed that a believer is allowed to intoxicate and therefore have intoxicants and remain a believer. Just as if they are travelling, had intercourse, or became ill, or went to the bathroom. The prophet Muhammad laid a few logs in his time, that did not make HIM "rijis". A person can be "rijis" too, if they commit zina/shirk/kufr. Impurity can be a state of mind or an essence, a state of being (243). These are contrasted things.
I have personally tried intoxicants and been intoxicated, sure. I am not however, a drinker. The fact that I have that experience necessarily places me in a higher position of knowledge about this experience; not necessarily one of purity; just as a murderer/surviving victim can tell you more about murder than someone who has never murdered/been a victim of attempted murder. You don't see me defending murder however and nor will you see me defending any evils of intoxication.
Irrespective of the person you must follow this command
O you who believe! if an evil-doer comes to you with a report, look carefully into it, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then be sorry for what you have done.Indeed it would be very good for you to read the whole of that chapter simply to grow (verses 6,9,10,12,16 especially, might as well read the whole thing as it's only 18 long). I was once on your side of thought, never intoxicated a day in my life either and I too responded emotionally at what I saw was people condoning drunk driving, illicit sex, etc from my perspective of innocence/naivety. But what they were actually condoning is that intoxicants should not be prohibited. The drunk driving, promiscuity, all of that was in my head, my picture of what these people wanted to do. And that picture was based on my personal limited understanding of what intoxicants were at the time. They didn't condone that but my fear made it seem so.
Explain for a second what is "nonsensical". The human brain is fickle, when it cannot understand something for reasons emotional or intellectual, it cries "insane! delusional! crazy! liar! impossible! sinner! magician! nonsense!". These are only the cries of the foolish and you will see these examples throughout the quran as representative of the rejectors of truth only, nowhere will you see the example of a believer written in al-quran saying something like that. Moses and Al-Khidr is a great example; Al-Khidr was the mumin, Moses a muslim. In that example, Moses was in a position to reject Al-Haqq due to his limited understanding. The angels contemplated rejecting Al-Haqq and God reminded them the limits of their knowledge. Satan rejected Al-Haqq AND rejected the reminder and look where he is now. The path of the truth seeker is always bound by reason, justice and the true explanation, fear and emotion cloud it not.
Peace
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Here in the United States, our indigenous brothers and sisters know the dangers of alcohol. I have lived on a reservation before, and in the town there was a sign that said, "The Alcohol Spirit is Real."
In my opinion, it is best to stay from it. But I do know that some people can handle it. Ultimately, it is a matter between Allah and a given individual.