Simplicity=Confusion
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True Islam from Quran alone is supposed to be simple?!?!? We are all confused on salat, He says she says. This original arabic word means this or is it that? This english version is hadith inspired this one is so so. Why would a religion of simplicity cause such mass confusion? Why should such simplicity require me to study original arabic to get the true meaning? That sounds complex. Aw heck it is COMPLEX!!!! All of these Quran alone sights claim the truth, and use ayats to confirm there truth. The opposition uses ayats to confirm there truth. Simple, yeah right.
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"Why should such simplicity require me to study original arabic to get the true meaning?"
Because the creator of such simplicity told us not to follow things we have no knowledge of, and to ascertain the truth about any news we hear, ref quran ch17. It is imperative that we know what we are talking about before we talk about it.
Ayats confirm truth. That is their purpose. Anything that is true, an ayat is there to confirm it. Al-quran is necessarily a self-consistent book.
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Dear applepie,
True Islam from Quran alone is supposed to be simple?!?!? We are all confused on salat, He says she says. This original arabic word means this or is it that? This english version is hadith inspired this one is so so. Why would a religion of simplicity cause such mass confusion? Why should such simplicity require me to study original arabic to get the true meaning? That sounds complex. Aw heck it is COMPLEX!!!! All of these Quran alone sights claim the truth, and use ayats to confirm there truth. The opposition uses ayats to confirm there truth. Simple, yeah right.
But it is simple my brother...Let me clarify
- To be a "Muslim", a person simply needs to submit to God alone and do good works (see 262, 4133).
- As for the more advanced stage of being a "mumin/faithful", that involves more work and other tools (http//free-minds.org/mumins).
- With regards to the differing opinons you may be seeing, all thanks are due to our Sunni and Shite sectarian predecessors who did a fantastic job of corrupting God's system for many centuries and as a reault have forced us all to go back to less than zero to get the truth.
- The difference of opioin is a result of different approaches to research, different backgrounds, and different mindsets - that people differ is natural (Solomon and David differed in their understanding of the ruling a case - see 217 - but that does not negate the fact that there can always only be ONE truth. What we ask people here is to adhere to 3918, by listening to what is being said/presented and follow the "best" of it.
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I need a Verse from alQuran forbidding Hadith Jesus, as Christians claimed by the verse below;
332
Say, "Obey Allah and the Messenger." But if they turn away - then indeed, Allah does not like the disbelievers.616
And when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah"4363
And when Jesus brought clear proofs, he said, "I have come to you with wisdom and to make clear to you some of that over which you differ, so fear Allah and obey me.2285
The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, , "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the destination." -
You might need to know a few hebrew phrases aswell ) But really, one can come quite far with translations.
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True Islam from Quran alone is supposed to be simple?!?!? We are all confused on salat, He says she says. This original arabic word means this or is it that? This english version is hadith inspired this one is so so. Why would a religion of simplicity cause such mass confusion? Why should such simplicity require me to study original arabic to get the true meaning? That sounds complex. Aw heck it is COMPLEX!!!! All of these Quran alone sights claim the truth, and use ayats to confirm there truth. The opposition uses ayats to confirm there truth. Simple, yeah right.
You're 'confusing' the issue of 'differences of opinion' and 'confusion'... 'differences of opinion' is not equal to 'confusion'.
Differences of opinion happen because people has made decision, as thus not confused, yet those decision is not the same as other people. Confusion happen to those people who do not make any decision, because they're confused on what should they stand on specific matter.
I might assume that this view of yours happen due to your 'familiarity' with (western) sectarian conception of 'everybody must agree to the same thing' otherwise there will be 'confusion'. Because religion are being used to 'control' people mind and disagreement are often discouraged, especially if one disagree with those who possess the 'authority' (such as the church or government) as it will undermine their reputation and ruined their 'infallible' image Somebody has put a posting within this forum which explain 'flocks mentality' which I believe it's very good at describing the matter.
If you apply the same view to 'judge' the 'human civilization' as we know today, you'll assert that the whole world is in TOTAL CONFUSION because there are basically 7 Billlion differing opinions on myriad of matters. (as every individual is unique with their own mind and opinion). As for me; I decided to embrace that fact and view it as a 'harmony'..
I need a Verse from alQuran forbidding Hadith Jesus, as Christians claimed by the verse below;
I don't get it brother.. if you're looking for "Forbidden upon thee to read, recite and discuss the story of Jesus" statement in the quran, well there are no such thing.
Salam / Peace
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True Islam from Quran alone is supposed to be simple?!?!? We are all confused on salat, He says she says. This original arabic word means this or is it that? This english version is hadith inspired this one is so so. Why would a religion of simplicity cause such mass confusion? Why should such simplicity require me to study original arabic to get the true meaning? That sounds complex. Aw heck it is COMPLEX!!!! All of these Quran alone sights claim the truth, and use ayats to confirm there truth. The opposition uses ayats to confirm there truth. Simple, yeah right.
Salaam Applepie
I think the best answer you can get is from a simple person, and I am such a person. No, not saying that I have the BEST answer, not trying to be better than everyone else, ok? But still, I am actually quite simple folk, a peasant and server.......I don't know what I'm saying.... ???
Anyways
Eventhough I have a bachelor degree in science I am a grunt, a down to earth kind of guy and I like the simple things in life. Watching a sunrise gives me more joy and satisfaction than anything because it is just so darn beautiful in its simplicity, you get me?
And that is what Allah means by simple. Life is simple, you do not need to complicate things. Allah has created you the way you are and He would not make you such an imbecill that you wouldn't even be able to follow his simple commands. You do not need to be a smart dude to understand the message. Even a child with her brilliliant child logic can find the right answer, an answer that scholars with years of Quran experience could spend years pondering over.
When I read the Quran the first time it was in my native tongue and it was absolutely beautiful. Without any question in my heart I understood what the message was. I think I was lucky to have a fellow countryman who could translate the Quran and catch the "islamic" essence as well. If you would ask me what the message was I wouldn't be able to tell you, because it is in my heart and I could never find the words to describe it. Therefore I do not fully agree with those who say you must learn arabic to understand because that is not enough. You need to understand the soul of the language as well. Like I said, maybe my native tongue Quran has not suceeded in an exact translation word for word, but it sure beats any english translation because the essence is there, the soul is caught in that translation.BUT, it will take you a lifetime to fully understand the simplicity of Allah. Just like brother Layth pointed out, Allah is not something you "get" straight away, your journey will take you through several levels. If you are not reaching the "momin" stage, then so what? Allah has greater plans for you. That doesn't mean you are off the hook though, you must strive to find a better understanding. Hopefully with the grace of God we will have reached some kind of understanding before we die, I sure hope I will achieve that anyways.
So finding the answer, digging deep, that is what people are trying to figure out, sometimes by posting, replying, arguing, getting into itsy bitsy details.....sometimes it gets heated, sometimes not. Sometimes it gets very very very complicated and people are stumbling on their own words and getting confused even about what they wrote themselves. It's a process of confusion and very tedious. But once in a blue moon you say Ahaa! when you do find the answer. And when you share your "revelation" with your fellow brothers and sisters they also say Ahaa! Well, hopefully anyways....but that is not the important thing. The important thing is that you have found an answer that will put you a little closer to the true path. And when you do find an answer, it will be absolutely clear and you will think to yourself "why didn't I think of that in the first place, the answer is so simple."
That is the difference between Quran Alone and traditional islam. Quran Alone does not "give" you the answer, it doesnt even lead you gently back to the herd if you go astray. It relies on your interaction with other people to find your true path. It relies on your motivation to find a deeper meaning. It puts the responsibility of You getting closer to God on YOU. And what other way is there?
I too have difficulty understanding the number of prayers, it is not easy. Like I said, hopefully I will have a better understanding before the day I die. But nonetheless I still understand Allah's ONE message about prayer, about the connection to Him. To remember Him in everything we do, how we act, what we see and the way we treat our fellow humans.
And that is the simplicity of it. Everybody knows 1+1=2, but to understand why the sum is 2, that is a little bit tricky.
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^ great post
To find fresher water, at least one animal must stray from the herd and come back to tell the tale. The herd lives in the place of most immediate comfort. The place of most immediate comfort is not necessarily the most fertile land.
The current river of islam just isn't doing it globally. Why, when that very same river was the river of peace when Muhammad brought it forth? Seems like someone else erected their own river and called it "Islam".
"Everybody knows 1+1=2, but to understand why the sum is 2, that is a little bit tricky."
Good point. Nobody has ever been able to prove why 1+1=2 and it has actually been proven impossible to even explain why using mathematics itself (see Godel).
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True Islam from Quran alone is supposed to be simple?!?!? We are all confused on salat, He says she says. This original arabic word means this or is it that? This english version is hadith inspired this one is so so. Why would a religion of simplicity cause such mass confusion? Why should such simplicity require me to study original arabic to get the true meaning? That sounds complex. Aw heck it is COMPLEX!!!! All of these Quran alone sights claim the truth, and use ayats to confirm there truth. The opposition uses ayats to confirm there truth. Simple, yeah right.
I subscribe to your questions! Shall we ever get any real clarification?
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Dear applepie,
But it is simple my brother...Let me clarify
- To be a "Muslim", a person simply needs to submit to God alone and do good works (see 262, 4133).
- As for the more advanced stage of being a "mumin/faithful", that involves more work and other tools (http//free-minds.org/mumins).
- With regards to the differing opinons you may be seeing, all thanks are due to our Sunni and Shite sectarian predecessors who did a fantastic job of corrupting God's system for many centuries and as a reault have forced us all to go back to less than zero to get the truth.
- The difference of opioin is a result of different approaches to research, different backgrounds, and different mindsets - that people differ is natural (Solomon and David differed in their understanding of the ruling a case - see 217 - but that does not negate the fact that there can always only be ONE truth. What we ask people here is to adhere to 3918, by listening to what is being said/presented and follow the "best" of it.
Nicely said Layth!
But I wonder how is it possible that Allah allows number 3 yet AGAIN? when The Reading (Quran) was sent to end the disputes that Jews, Sabians, and other sects used to have? -
See the 3 Salat theory/Evidence for middle prayer
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603015.0 -
Yes youssef4342, you can find evidence for almost ANY argument in this world!
Even, the great Al-Ghazali
http//www.ghazali.org/books/worship.pdfBUT
Why don't you read the suggestions about the book
http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/any-suggestion/
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Yes youssef4342, you can find evidence for almost ANY argument in this world!
Even, the great Al-Ghazali
http//www.ghazali.org/books/worship.pdfBUT
Why don't you read the suggestions about the book
http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/any-suggestion/Peace GODSubmitter!
I have read some of the concepts and theology by Aided safar and to me, "commitments", and decaying meat are not what i read about the Religion of Abraham!
Taking your ideology, why don't you spread the blasphemy that Jesus is the begotten ... as most Christians claim? Thus why should i spread a controversial book?(there is also the Syrio-aramaic reading of the Quran, but i don't go spread that either)I believe in Jesus as a prophet, and as he bowed down to the earth, and as he secluded himself to the mount to do his ritual prayers.
I believe in God, as the only god, the one who created everything. He has no partners, nor helpers. He is the Almighty, the supreme. He is the only god because he is the only one who can respond to invocations, and he is the only one who can help us. He is in full Control!
I believe in the Torah, I believe in the prophets, i believe in the Psalms, i believe in the Gospels.
God commanded us to follow the Religion of Abraham, complete monotheism, not the ideology of the Mohammadans nor the ideology of Aided safar.
Furthuremore, since Abraham came long before the Quran, we have to look at the previous scriptures (to which God Almighty tells us to believe in them). And When you do so, you will find that WORSHIP was taking place, not commitments... Charity was given... sacrifice was being made etc.
May the Lord God guide us to the correct path!
Peace! -
So why don't you do also burnt offerings as told in Torah (OT), or why you also don't kill sacrificial animals?
Jesus did PRAY, but he did not do RITUAL prayers as Muslim do 5 times a day as robots.It is just incredible how little serious are people about important matters.
One should take time and STUDY the book by Aidid Safar!
And ponder, and think, and examine, before making any pronouncements or making decisions.Have you seen the ritual of Zoroastrians (Iran)? It is the oldest ritualistic religion with god and satan
http//www.youtube.com/user/bahman19#p/c/B4401231F9656506/36/7-ZQGwhVMkc
PS
by the way, I cannot imagine Jesus, or King David, interrupting whatever they do all day long, to do 5 ritualistic prayers with rakaas hahaha. Can you?
Or Jeremiah, preaching to people in a very important moment, he says, "excuse me, now I have to go to do my rakaas, and I do them always on time..."
a bit ridiculous, don't you think? -
So why don't you do also burnt offerings as told in Torah (OT), or why you also don't kill sacrificial animals?
Jesus did PRAY, but he did not do RITUAL prayers as Muslim do 5 times a day as robots.
It is just incredible how little serious are people about important matters.
One should take time and STUDY the book by Aidid Safar!
And ponder, and think, and examine, before making any pronouncements or making decisions.
Have you seen the ritual of Zoroastrians (Iran)? It is the oldest ritualistic religion with god and satan )
http//www.youtube.com/user/bahman19#p/c/B4401231F9656506/36/7-ZQGwhVMkc
PS
by the way, I cannot imagine Jesus, or King David, interrupting whatever they do all day long, to do 5 ritualistic prayers with rakaas hahaha. Can you?
Or Jeremiah, preaching to people in a very important moment, he says, "excuse me, now I have to go to do my rakaas, and I do them always on time..."
a bit ridiculous, don't you think?Peace Godsubmitter!
I do not offer daily sacrifices because 1) God doesn't decree for us animal sacrifices in the Quran 2) God tells us to believe in the previous scriptures (e.g as historical reference), and has the stance of "to each his own" laws and commandments. Thus we do not need sacrificial animals (for atonement). Not to forget that God's temple is destroyed and thus there is no alter to sacrifice)
1 Samuel 1522 states "...To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams"There is no such thing as 5 prayers, there is only 3 to my belief. This is because all throughout God's scriptures, there is only mention of 3 period of prayer (e.g the prophets (Daniel 610), in the Psalms (5517), in the gospels (times for prayer 3rd, 6th, 9th), and in the Quran (Dawn, Middle, Evening prayer). Also again, even Jews today are required to do 3 daily prayers (watch the Jewish Salat http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aHWASyMjwg)
*also a note to the Gospels, these times for prayers (3rd,6th,9th) were prescribed, not made up on an individual basis and likings.
*As for zoroastrians, i know that they pray towards a source of light (Qibla), and pray. I also like their "good Thought/word/deed" Idealogy. I say to the monotheistic Zoroastrians Peace be upon you!Also you have to realize that the so called Rak3a' system is no where to be found in the Quran . The point of Salat is to remember God! Repeating your Salat as a "ritual" prayer can well be achieved by a parrot! Again the point of doing Salat is to remember God. Obviously a sincere/vehement prayer would be better in the sight of God, than that which is repeated like a broken record! God doesn't want you to do your Salat while intoxicated for a reason!
Furthuremore, God does give us an example of Solomon missing his Salat; thus the Salat was timely scheduled. Even in the NT, again, we see scheduled times for prayer!
Currently my Salat consists of an intro prostration, standing and bowing, kneeling & praying, and ending with laying flat on the floor (i.e "submitting" before God). I do not follow a prescribed system, i pray and ask God to grant me a vehement prayer/ open my heart/mind to pray. The sole basis of doing the salat/prayer is again to remember God (which is to say, easy to do if you keep asking God for help in... everything e.g from your homework, to easing your way through things, to emotional aid etc.)
Comparing to the"rak3a" system, i only do 1 rak3a which lasts anywhere from 30 to 1+hour. Emphasis should be put on rememmberance of God through being sincere and conscious, not the amount of bowings and prostrations etc . The other Emphasis is on Reverance of God during our salat; number of bowings/prostrations is thus not the main idea. (Salat is when Quality beats Quantity!)On a final note to this post
Follow the Religion of Abraham, complete monotheist. Study the previous books of God, and you'll see that they Worshiped him. They kneeled, bowed, prostrated, invoked, praised, glorified, sang songs/psalms to him. Aided Safar's elimination of Worshiping God is terrible, and goes against the previous scriptures of God! If God meant commitments in the Quran, then what did he mean by Worship in the previous scriptures? If God tells the children of Israel to do their Salat, doesn't that mean they know how to? is it a coincidence that Slota in Aramaic means prayer, and Zadekha in Hebrew means charity (10% tithe)?
If God confirms the previous scriptures in the Quran, and states that he made us the same religion, and states that the previous people did their salat & zakat, then why not look into the previous scriptures? You'll again see worship, not commitments. I'm not trying to be mean. This is the truth!May the Lord God grant us wisdom & understanding & guide us by his grace pr
Praise be to God; Knower of all secrets and declarations!
Peace Godsubmitter peace -
But if you always want the reference in previous scriptures to justify the ritual prayer and as you say that's why you do pray that way, then my question is why don't you also sacrifice animals like Karaites do even nowadays (followers of Torah without hadit-talmud) or do burnt offerings?
And if there are 3 prayers a day in Torah, do you think that God changes? That He modifies His System? So, He changed His Mind, and orders to Muslims now to do it 5 times, or now do not sacrifice animals, or all the Muslims follow some devil? Do you think that God has problems in making clear His choreography for the rituals? Or is it just a commitment to do good deeds that He wants us to do?
Also, I think that Aidid Safar is right about zakat to mean pure becase in Hebrew tzadaka is also pure from where the term tzadik (pure, saint man) comes.
So salat and zakat IS commitment to Reality System and keep it pure!You guys sometimes astonish me... Do you think that people like Luis Pasteur, who saved milions pf people through his work will go to hell because he didn't pray rakaa etc, and that some anonymous Muslim who prays like a robot 5 times on time will go to Paradise to have 70 virgins to serve him???
ahahahahahahahaha rotflbetter watch this http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsS6HUqYU1w
and
http//www.youtube.com/user/WhereIsTruth?gl=CA&hl=en#p/a/u/0/b4cybPoAi5M
and, if you have time, watch other vids on that channel, I have no idea who made them, but they are pretty instructive.
And it is better use of time to do good things instead, then to perform a choreographed ritual prayers. -
But if you always want the reference in previous scriptures to justify the ritual prayer and as you say that's why you do pray that way, then my question is why don't you also sacrifice animals like Karaites do even nowadays (followers of Torah without hadit-talmud) or do burnt offerings?
And if there are 3 prayers a day in Torah, do you think that God changes? That He modifies His System? So, He changed His Mind, and orders to Muslims now to do it 5 times, or now do not sacrifice animals, or all the Muslims follow some devil? Do you think that God has problems in making clear His choreography for the rituals? Or is it just a commitment to do good deeds that He wants us to do?
Also, I think that Aidid Safar is right about zakat to mean pure becase in Hebrew tzadaka is also pure from where the term tzadik (pure, saint man) comes.
So salat and zakat IS commitment to Reality System and keep it pure!You guys sometimes astonish me... Do you think that people like Luis Pasteur, who saved milions pf people through his work will go to hell because he didn't pray rakaa etc, and that some anonymous Muslim who prays like a robot 5 times on time will go to Paradise to have 70 virgins to serve him???
ahahahahahahahaha rotfl
better watch this http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsS6HUqYU1w
and
http//www.youtube.com/user/WhereIsTruth?gl=CA&hl=en#p/a/u/0/b4cybPoAi5M
and, if you have time, watch other vids on that channel, I have no idea who made them, but they are pretty instructive.
And it is better use of time to do good things instead, then to perform a choreographed ritual prayers.Peace Godsumbitter!
I think God has all the answers!
First and foremost i want to inform you that I do not follow traditional "Islam", aka Mohamadism.
The 5-a-day choreograph-ied prayer is not from the Quran, Nor is the "rak3a" system. Nor the 70 virgins!
Your direct criticism at me is faulty because I am not a Sunni or a Shia, I do not believe in these heresies!
There was only 3 prays in the OT, NT, and the Quran. The 5-a-day salat theory was codified after the Quran and Muhammed's death by hundred of years!
As an FYI, God tells us those who believe and do righteous work will have recompense. Anyone can go in Hell, and anyone can go into heaven if God almighty wills. I could go to hell or Heaven if God Almighty wills. However, For me, at this point of my life, i have a stance of "i don't care, i'd rather support God anyhow". I was an unbeliever before, and by God's grace, God directed me at his path. Why would i revert to disbelief after i have found the truth? I don't care where i go, I'd rather support God by his Holiness and Majesty!
Another FYI, look at the gospels and you'll find that Jesus basically struck down the Jewish Chiefs/rabbis, and condemned them for nullifying the Law of God in the Torah by their traditions (in Mark 713). Another incidence Jesus gave a parable of the prayer of a humble sinner asking for God's mercy vs an arrogant chief priest's prayer. At the end, the sinner was said to be seen as better in the sight of God (Luke 189-14) because "anyone who exalts himself will be debased" (Luke 1411), and the major example God gives us in teh Quran is Satan's arrogance, which made God debase him).
Back to the Nullifying God's laws The same thing is happening with modern day Mohammadens who nullify God's law in the Quran by following other man-made laws besides God. (e.g stoning adultrous, capital punishment for leaving their religion, nullifying divorce cooling off-period, Nullifying wills etc)
(Who will go to heaven now eh?)I stated before That God decreed for us Different laws and commandments in the Quran and the Torah!
"...For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had God willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness?" (Quran 54
*Thus God did not decree for us daily sacrifices nor the upholding the sabbath. I don't have to sacrifice daily offerings because God almighty did not decree it for us to do. Making up religious laws is Shirk!To my knowledge, God states in the Quran and the previous scriptures that his system doesn't change/He does not change. (Mal.36 "for I YHWH(God) do not change" and in Quran 3362 "...you will find that God's system is unchangeable".
As for the Salat, to my knowledge God instructs us to Worship him. An example is Invoking/praying to God. By invoking God, you are actually worshiping him, not serving him.
As for the "choreography" of the salat, God instruct us to bow, prostrate, in the Quran, as well as in the previous scriptures (e.g Psalms 956 "Come, let us worship and bow down, let us kneel before the Lord, our God, our Maker". This is mirrored in the Quran as "O you who believe, you shall bow, prostrate, worship your Lord, and work righteousness, that you may succeed. (Quran2277).Please take the advice of not becoming arrogant. God Debased Satan for his arrogance. Mocking and criticising others for their Wrong doing, I think, is not a good thing in the sight of God. People do not own God, on the Contrary, it is God who owns us! Humbleness is a virtue!
Seek God's help and guidance, and ask him for forgiveness. We're not prefect, we're sinners!
~"whoever exalts himself will be debased" (luke 1411) because "God does not like the arrogant showoffs" (Quran 311.
~Peace~ peace handshake -
Thank you youssef4342 for this very nice post and advice. I like your style and tone.
Now, I am not arrogant, believe me, I am just struggling, because I was doing traditional Muslim prayer 5 times a day, for a long time, after being convinced by Rashad Khalifa's mathematical miracle which confirms the Quran being from God, and RK advocated the traditional 5 times prayer. While I was doing it I felt nice... and followed many other RK advice.
BUT, then...
when I read the book "Mental Bondage" by Adid Safar, I simply understood what a fool I was! I will confess to you sincerely that I do miss my rituals sometimes, and all that paraphernalia of choreography as to "think " that in that way I am getting nearer to God, ... but, alas, as I discovered in Safar's book the real rationale behind that all, now my world is upside down, and I understand how misguided we all are!
Why don't you take time and read that book?
Peace to you brother
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when I read the book "Mental Bondage" by Adid Safar, I simply understood what a fool I was! I will confess to you sincerely that I do miss my rituals sometimes, and all that paraphernalia of choreography as to "think " that in that way I am getting nearer to God, ... but, alas, as I discovered in Safar's book the real rationale behind that all, now my world is upside down, and I understand how misguided we all are!
Why don't you take time and read that book?
Salaam Godsubmitter
I am happy to inform you that I just read the book "Mental bondage". Am I allowed now to engage you in a serious discussion?
