Aidid Safar's Mental Bondage In the name of God

Reborn23

Has anyone read the book 'Mental Bondage in the name of God' by Aidid Safar???

youssef4342

I thought i posted a post about it yesterday! (i still have 0 replys, maybe it's too early still)
I had questions about it too!
It completely goes against traditional islam!
It's deviance is like The "Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran"

In it salat becomes commitments
pig meat becomes decaying meat
as i said before My the Good lord God look upon this! & hypno

Reborn23

Deviance. welll. i wouldnt call this book deviant. look it's not like we're little kids and we would believe anything thrown at us. Because now that we are seeking the truth, we must use our faculties to verify and analyze the arguments. And this book, i must say, sounds very logical and makes complete sense. I even looked up the verses the author has quoted. I checked all of the verses about salat, hajj and other things he mentioned as mistranslated and I really gave it all some thought. And it's surprising yet true that his arguments are very logical. like for example I looked up the verses on salat he was talking about and I was shocked that at some of the places salat as ritual prayer didn't make sense at all. You have to keep the context in mind for that. We shouldn't really be too rigid to see things from a different perspective.

For example; We know that Abraham built the kaaba, and for that he must have had to actually get help from people in Makkah to build the kaaba, right? And if he did, the Arabs of Makkah must have been aquainted with Abraham. It won't be wrong to say that if Abraham built the kaaba, he would have been obligated to preach to the arabs, because it sounds very unlikely that he just went to Makkah, built the kaaba and went back to his homeland. But Quran says God never sent any messengers to Makkah before Prophet Muhammad, and that Arabs were a gentile race i.e. without any prior knowledge of God's scripture.

Another example, if Masjid is a mosque for Muslims, why is the same word (masjid) used in Quran in the context of other prophets like Moses? We have been told that the first Mosque was built by Prophet Muhammad himself after 12 years of his prophethood. So what are those masjids God is talking about at other places in Quran? Sure masjid must mean something else than a physical mosque.

There are many other examples that make perfect sense if you really think analytically.

I think it's a must read. You are free to put it in the trash if it doesnt make sense to you anyway.

youssef4342

Peace & thanks for your reply!

This is all new to me. I just found out the book yesterday! hmm
I am praying 3 prayers a day, and was questioning the 2 prayer a day theory, and then the mental bondage came up, where there are no ritual prayers!
(I mean i moved from 5 salats a day traditional islam, to submitter's 5 a day, to 3 salats a day)
and now there is this new interpretation where there are no salats?

here is Edip Yuksel's view
http//www.yuksel.org/e/religion/arab.htm

May the lord God guide us to the correct path! hypno

KDC501

Deviance. welll. i wouldnt call this book deviant. look it's not like we're little kids and we would believe anything thrown at us. Because now that we are seeking the truth, we must use our faculties to verify and analyze the arguments. And this book, i must say, sounds very logical and makes complete sense. I even looked up the verses the author has quoted. I checked all of the verses about salat, hajj and other things he mentioned as mistranslated and I really gave it all some thought. And it's surprising yet true that his arguments are very logical. like for example I looked up the verses on salat he was talking about and I was shocked that at some of the places salat as ritual prayer didn't make sense at all. You have to keep the context in mind for that. We shouldn't really be too rigid to see things from a different perspective.

For example; We know that Abraham built the kaaba, and for that he must have had to actually get help from people in Makkah to build the kaaba, right? And if he did, the Arabs of Makkah must have been aquainted with Abraham. It won't be wrong to say that if Abraham built the kaaba, he would have been obligated to preach to the arabs, because it sounds very unlikely that he just went to Makkah, built the kaaba and went back to his homeland. But Quran says God never sent any messengers to Makkah before Prophet Muhammad, and that Arabs were a gentile race i.e. without any prior knowledge of God's scripture.

Another example, if Masjid is a mosque for Muslims, why is the same word (masjid) used in Quran in the context of other prophets like Moses? We have been told that the first Mosque was built by Prophet Muhammad himself after 12 years of his prophethood. So what are those masjids God is talking about at other places in Quran? Sure masjid must mean something else than a physical mosque.

There are many other examples that make perfect sense if you really think analytically.

I think it's a must read. You are free to put it in the trash if it doesnt make sense to you anyway.

As a student of the previous scripture I can tell you without any doubt that Mecca is not the true place of pilgrimage and neither is it the place where the holy mosque resides. The true place of Abraham is in Jerusalem and NOT MECCA. It has been so for thousands of years and it did not change when Muhammad was a prophet. I personally believe that the Arabs distorted there history in order to revert back to there 'old pagan customs' with the exception as Muhammad as there 'new idol' and the Quran as there holy book.

Check out this tread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.msg280312#msg280312 - Is Jerusalem the Qibla???

Scriptural Proofs in a nutshell....

2144 We see the shifting of your face towards the sky; We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you, "You shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the book know it is the truth from their Lord. God is not oblivious of what you do.

2145 Even if you come to those who have been given the book with every sign, they will not follow your focal point, nor will you follow their focal point, nor will some of them even follow each other's focal point. If you were to follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you would be one of the wicked.

2146 Those to whom We have given the book know it as they know their own children, and a group of them hides the truth while they know. (this verse is in reference to the People of the Book(the Jews and Christians) The Jews and the Christians are not familiar with Mecca as being the Place of Abraham)

1094 If you are in doubt regarding what We have sent down to you, then ask those who have been studying the book from before you. The truth has come to you from your Lord, so do not be of those who doubt.

sura 1173 They said, "Do you wonder at the decree of God? God's Compassion and Blessings are upon you O people of the sanctuary. He is Praiseworthy, Glorious." (This is when an angel appeared to Abraham and told him the news of a new born son and that which was to happen to Sodom and Gomorrah. Note the phrase "People of the Sanctuary&quot

396 The first house established for the public is the one in Bakka, blessed, and guidance for the worlds.

397 In it are clear signs the place of Abraham. Whoever enters it will be secure. Pilgrimage to the sanctuary is a duty from God for the people who can afford a means to it. Whoever rejects, and then God has no need of the worlds.

Becca is a place that resides in Jerusalem and it's a place that is well known by the Jews.

Psalms 846 passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. 7 They go from strength to strength, in Zion appeareth before God.

951 By the fig and the olive. (olives grow in Jerusalem and not Mecca)
952 The mount of ages. (I believe this to be a referencer to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem)
953 This secure land.

There are many proofs in the Quran which leans more in favor of Jerusalem than Mecca as the Place of Abraham. You can read about it in "The Natural Republic" Chapter 18 "The Lost Legacy of Abraham"

I completely disagree with Abid Safar take on ritual practices. Salat , hajj and Fasting have existed as physical practices for centuries! If it did not change then, then why should it be changed now???

Peace,

Kevin

TAJ

For example; We know that Abraham built the kaaba, and for that he must have had to actually get help from people in Makkah to build the kaaba, right? And if he did, the Arabs of Makkah must have been aquainted with Abraham. It won't be wrong to say that if Abraham built the kaaba, he would have been obligated to preach to the arabs, because it sounds very unlikely that he just went to Makkah, built the kaaba and went back to his homeland. But Quran says God never sent any messengers to Makkah before Prophet Muhammad, and that Arabs were a gentile race i.e. without any prior knowledge of God's scripture.

The valley of mecca was not inhabited then. Ibrahim and his son Ismaeel,, alone built the cube/ka3bah.

youssef4342

Peace everyone!
I would like to add about the Jerusalem being the Qibla.
Facing The house of God in Jerusalem was favoured as a focal point (Qibla) in the bible
"And they shall? pray to You toward their land, which You gave to their fathers, the city that You have chosen, and the house which I have built for Your Name.? IKing 848
"...I will worship toward Your holy temple" (Psalms 57 NKJ)

Kaiokenred

Aidid Safar's views to me are the most logical I've ever seen.

Wakas

Aidid Safar's views to me are the most logical I've ever seen.

If by "most logical" you mean a work full of errors as well as good points, then yes "most logical" is apt.

Kaiokenred

What errors?

Layth

Salam,

The work, while it may contain some good points, is one that is built on "intellectual dishonesty" and therefore not a book I would recomend.

The Aidid Saffar group seem to want to be "unhindered" by the laws of the Quran, and have therefore come up with a new approach, the tactic of which is very simple a ) the known meaning of all Arabic words is completely ignored and fantasy meanings are substituted. b) verses are collected which meet this new invented meaning, but the verses that contradict the new fantasy word are simply ignored as if they don't exist.

So, for example, here is how the Aidid group logic would work

Want to eat the meat of pig? No problem - the Arabic word "khinzeer" is not really a pig, but it used to refer "unkooked meat".
Want to have sex out of marriage? No problem - the Arabic word "zina" is not adultry, but means "rough sex".
Dont't want to carry out Salat? no problem - the word just means "commitment".
Don't want to travel for "Hajj"? No problem - the word just means "emailing your freinds".
Don't like the Arabs with their stupid oil money and behaviour? No problem, the word "Aaraab/Nomads" actually means "Arabs" so the Quran swears at them alot.

The work presented by this group will never find resonnace with any Arabic speaker for it being nonsensical, as for those who don't speak Arabic, they will only be attracted to this approach if they are also unwilling to follow the sometimes strict laws of the Quran.

1590 As We have sent down upon the dividers.
1591 The ones who have made the Qur?an into segments.
1592 By your Lord, We will ask them all.
1593 Regarding what they used to do.

Producer

in Addition, even some Quranist have mental bondage cause by their understanding,

for example, the meaning of "Hadith".

Some Quranist close-mindedly define "Hadith" just means Sahih Bukhari and the like of it.

"Hadith" means "Narration". No verse in Quran, stated only Allah can make hadith, no human can make hadith.

Sunnis themselves verifies and Proof, People can make Hadith.

Most Quranist agrees, Humans cannot make Hadith(without any proof from Quran).

"Hadith" means "Narration", All human make Narration. This forum, this thread is made up of many narrations. This reply is a Narration.

Peace.

Kaiokenred

God asking us to do rituals simply doesn't convince me. I find his view on salat more logical. Especially since the verse that says Planets "prostrate" makes more sense how Aidid Safar said it.

javed1

Peace
What are the good points,if any?
Javed

Jafar

Some of the major good points

Religion is man made and dien is not religion.
Salaat is not ritualized prayer BUT commandment / commitment / deeds that need to be done / task to do
(Which is a common theme across the Tanakh, Gospel and Quran, uphold the commandment!!, try to look for 'ritualized prayer' in the Tanakh or Gospel and you shall find nothing) that's why it goes well with AQYM (establish, uphold, make it reality, work on)
You can talk to God in any human language that you choose.. (not just arabic)
God doesn't ask to be worshiped (which are being mentioned many times in the Tanakh and Gospel) although it's not forbidden either..He 'recommends' you to put more importance / emphasize on obeying/upholding the commandments for your own good.. (which are being mentioned many times in the Tanakh and Gospel)

And there are other 'minor good points'.. which are trivial in my opinion..

Although the above is 'nothing new' (at least for me).. I find it as 'reaffirmation' of my opinion...

There are also things which I disagree with him..

Salam / Peace

KDC501

Salaat is not ritualized prayer BUT commandment / commitment / deeds that need to be done / task to do
(Which is a common theme across the Tanakh, Gospel and Quran, uphold the commandment!!, try to look for 'ritualized prayer' in the Tanakh or Gospel and you shall find nothing) that's why it goes well with AQYM (establish, uphold, make it reality, work on)

This is absolutely not true. Do you know how many prays are found in the Bible! .Prays are common in the previous scriptures ESPECIALLY in the Psalms.

Psalm 41 For the director of music. With stringed instruments. A psalm of David. Answer me when I call to you, my righteous God. Give me relief from my distress; have mercy on me and hear my prayer.

Psalm 52
Hear my cry for help, my King and my God, for to you I pray.

Psalm 69
The LORD has heard my cry for mercy; the LORD accepts my prayer.

Psalm 171
A prayer of David. Hear me, LORD, my plea is just; listen to my cry. Hear my prayer? it does not rise from deceitful lips.

Psalm 176
I call on you, my God, for you will answer me; turn your ear to me and hear my prayer.

Psalm 326
Therefore let all the faithful pray to you while you may be found; surely the rising of the mighty waters will not reach them.

Psalm 8813
But I cry to you for help, LORD; in the morning my prayer comes before you.

Plus praying to God was done three times a day by David...

Psalm 5517-18

16 As for me, I call to God,
and the LORD saves me.
17 Evening, morning and noon
I cry out in distress,
and he hears my voice. ( Hence to pray means to speak to God, and not commandment or commitment)
18 He rescues me unharmed
from the battle waged against me,
even though many oppose me.

And who among the Christians can forget "the Lord's Prayer"

Matthew 66-13

6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 ?This, then, is how you should pray
??Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.?

Matthew 65

5 ?And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. ( Ritualized pray is common in the Previous Scriptures)

The Quran also shows evidence of ritualized pray

3830 To David We granted Solomon. What an excellent and obedient servant.
3831 When, during dusk, well trained horses were displayed before him.
3832 He said, "I enjoyed the good of materials more than I enjoyed remembering my Lord, until it became totally dark!"

Why would Solomon be so worried if praying wasn't a ritual( a binding practice to commemorate God at a particular time???)

All I see is corruption in the works of Aidid Safars. It also doesn't surprise to me that they will be people who support his work since there are some who can't cope with waking up on mornings to pray. The lazy will pay for they're laziness. Those who willfully twist the scripture to suit themselves will be the worst losers in the hereafter.

Peace,

Kevin

Jafar

This is absolutely not true. Do you know how many prays are found in the Bible! .Prays are common in the previous scriptures ESPECIALLY in the Psalms.

Psalm 41 For the director of music. With stringed instruments. A psalm of David. Answer me when I call to you, my righteous God. Give me relief from my distress; have mercy on me and hear my prayer.

What I meant was "Ritualized Prayer"... of course Psalm is a book of 'prayer'..

But with music???? that's HARAAAMM!!!!!! Music are coming from Satan!!!

Daniel did it 3 times a day, while David 7 times a day.. if it were indeed a 'ritualized prayer' (read it also mean standardized in classical sunni understanding) then both Daniel and David shall do it exactly in the same manner and there are no discrepancies how many times they did it on a day..

Do you get my point??
Prayer are for men and not men for prayer...

And who among the Christians can forget "the Lord's Prayer"

Matthew 66-13
5. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 ?This, then, is how you should pray
??Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.?

Indeed it was a beautiful prayer authored by Jesus..
But... it has no place within "Ritualized Prayer".. both within Judaism and Sunnism/Shiitism..
You don't trust me? Try it yourself as an experiment..
Try reciting the Lord Prayer loudly within Sunnis or Jewish Jama'ah.. they will stone you out from their mosque / synagogue..

Again Jesus didn't tell his disciples the following

And here's the correct way to prostrate and bow, make sure as well to get this right.
And during your prostration and bowing you should read this..
And after you recite the lord prayer in aramaic.. yes it must be in aramaic otherwise God will not accept your prayer... you say this.. and then this..

What Jesus teach on the 'nature of praying' was a 'liberation' from the rigid ritualized praying found within synagogues during his time.. most certainly he didn't teach 'ritualized praying'... because as he said "for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

I add more verses from the Gospel on the nature of praying..
Mar 1124 - 26
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. And when ye praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

I hope you correctly get my point...

All I see is corruption in the works of Aidid Safars. It also doesn't surprise to me that they will be people who support his work since there are some who can't cope with waking up on mornings to pray. The lazy will pay for they're laziness. Those who willfully twist the scripture to suit themselves will be the worst losers in the hereafter.

Oh Kevin, you start to sound like a sunni or jewish fundamentalist...

Salam / Peace

KDC501

All I see is corruption in the works of Aidid Safars. It also doesn't surprise to me that they will be people who support his work since there are some who can't cope with waking up on mornings to pray. The lazy will pay for they're laziness. Those who willfully twist the scripture to suit themselves will be the worst losers in the hereafter.

Peace,

Kevin

Brother Jafar there is not a single word that I have said in the above post that is not in the Quran. I will say it again those who twist the scripture to suit there own selfish desires will suffer greatly in the hereafter. These are not my words but the words of God.

1118 Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God? They will be brought before their Lord, and the witnesses will say, "These are the ones who lied about their Lord." Alas, God's curse will be upon the wicked.

1119 Those who repel others from the path of God and seek to twist it; and regarding the Hereafter they are in denial.

1120 These are the ones who will not escape on earth, nor do they have besides God any allies. The retribution will be doubled for them. They were not able to hear, nor could they see.

Those who willfully twist the scripture knowing full well that scripture teaches otherwise have mocked God and will suffer greatly in the hereafter if they do not repent and seek the correct path

Those who are truly sincere in the Way would know that such teachings (like Aidid take on pray) are false and a foolish ignorant attempt to twist the scripture. In my view those who follow such things will not be successful in the hereafter. The previous scripture and the signs in the Quran have proven that prays are to be done at a specific time. Hence if a pray is to be done at a specific time then that pray is a ritual. And yes prays are not meant for God but are meant for us. These prays and other duties which God told us to do in the Quran are to test us. If you and others do not wish to adhere or follow the words of the Quran but rather to twist the scripture in a vain attempt to make a "religion of convenience and laziness" then that is your own business. I on the other hand will follow what i know to be true and that is the prays are to be done at specific times during the day. It has been so for thousands of years and it didn't suddenly change when Aidid Safar wrote a book.

Also why are you denying to comment on the verse in the Quran...

The Quran also shows evidence of ritualized pray

3830 To David We granted Solomon. What an excellent and obedient servant.
3831 When, during dusk, well trained horses were displayed before him.
3832 He said, "I enjoyed the good of materials more than I enjoyed remembering my Lord, until it became totally dark!"

Why would Solomon be so worried if praying wasn't a ritual( a binding practice to commemorate God at a particular time???)

Peace,

Kevin

The Quran shows clear evidence that pray is to be done at specific times. If you and others are in doubt then take a look at this other verse

4102 If you are with them and hold the contact prayer for them, then let a group from amongst them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; when they have prostrated then let them stand guard from behind; let a group who has not yet contacted come and contact with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The ingrates hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you keep from placing down your weapons. Be wary. God has prepared for the ingrates a humiliating retribution.

If pray wasn't a ritual practice then why would God advocate that pray be done even at war times???

Next proof...

Doesn't the below verses imply that prays are to be done at specific times....

2238 You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer, and devote yourselves totally to GOD.

2239 But if you are in a state of worry, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.

If prays are not ritual would i have to worry about being secure to do them??? BASIC COMMON SENSE PEOPLE!!!!!

Look at Solomon wasn't he worried....

3831 When, during dusk, well trained horses were displayed before him.

3832 He said, "I enjoyed the good of materials more than I enjoyed remembering my Lord, until it became totally dark!"

If prays were not rituals then why would Solomon be so dramatic about missing a single pray???

But with music???? that's HARAAAMM!!!!!! Music are coming from Satan!!!

Music is not haram brother. Where did you see in the Quran that music is from Satan???

Daniel did it 3 times a day, while David 7 times a day.. if it were indeed a 'ritualized prayer' (read it also mean standardized in classical sunni understanding) then both Daniel and David shall do it exactly in the same manner and there are no discrepancies how many times they did it on a day..

David PRAISED God seven times a day NOT prayed to him seven times a day. To praise God and to pray to God are to separate things.

Psalms 119164 Seven times a day I praise You,
Because of Your righteous ordinances.

Note to the Readers Be Sincere. The Quran is a guarded book that cannot be interpreted well if the reader is not sincere.

5677 It is an honorable Quran.
5678 In a protected record.
5679 None can grasp it except those pure.(meaning the sincere)
5680 A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.

Peace,

Kevin.

GODsubmitter

Deviance. welll. i wouldnt call this book deviant. look it's not like we're little kids and we would believe anything thrown at us. Because now that we are seeking the truth, we must use our faculties to verify and analyze the arguments. And this book, i must say, sounds very logical and makes complete sense. I even looked up the verses the author has quoted. I checked all of the verses about salat, hajj and other things he mentioned as mistranslated and I really gave it all some thought. And it's surprising yet true that his arguments are very logical. like for example I looked up the verses on salat he was talking about and I was shocked that at some of the places salat as ritual prayer didn't make sense at all. You have to keep the context in mind for that. We shouldn't really be too rigid to see things from a different perspective.

For example; We know that Abraham built the kaaba, and for that he must have had to actually get help from people in Makkah to build the kaaba, right? And if he did, the Arabs of Makkah must have been aquainted with Abraham. It won't be wrong to say that if Abraham built the kaaba, he would have been obligated to preach to the arabs, because it sounds very unlikely that he just went to Makkah, built the kaaba and went back to his homeland. But Quran says God never sent any messengers to Makkah before Prophet Muhammad, and that Arabs were a gentile race i.e. without any prior knowledge of God's scripture.

Another example, if Masjid is a mosque for Muslims, why is the same word (masjid) used in Quran in the context of other prophets like Moses? We have been told that the first Mosque was built by Prophet Muhammad himself after 12 years of his prophethood. So what are those masjids God is talking about at other places in Quran? Sure masjid must mean something else than a physical mosque.

There are many other examples that make perfect sense if you really think analytically.

I think it's a must read. You are free to put it in the trash if it doesnt make sense to you anyway.

Thank you Reborn23 for an excellent post! sun

And it's surprising yet true that his arguments are very logical

EXACTLY!

I also think it's a must read!

I am so glad that you say that you checked all those places (I did it too) and with the right corrections finally it makes sense.

Thank you again for a great post, I still struggle wether to accept it all or just partially.

GODsubmitter