Taxes

Abdun_Nur

Salaam,

taxation is the imposition of compulsory levies on individuals or entities by governments. This is both unlawful and un-Qur'anic, I have been studying the law for sometime and have concluded how to remove the fictions Layth and others of the accumulated wealth elite wish to impose upon those around them for their benefit.

Corporate Government itself is unlawful defined in Black's law dictionary as The regulation, restraint, supervision, or control which is exercised upon the individual members of an organised jural society by those invested with the supreme political authority, for the good and welfare of the corporation.

The system that forms fundamental rules and principles by which a State governs the individual of the corporation, to regulate their social actions through rights and duties of citizens and public officers as prescribed and defined.

All corporation is based upon the trust structure of the Roman Catholic Church's Holy Trinity, something the Qur'an warns against, infact this trinity repeats throughout the system of frauds we suffer world wide at present.

A trust introduced by the church is structure like this The ?Father? is the grantor of the trust, so the executor, he invests the substance, the ?Son? is the administrator of the trust he is the trustee, who can gain no benefit himself, the ?Holy Ghost? is the incorporeal entity that holds the substance in a legal instrument. The executor grants benefit, the trustee gives benefit.

The frauds of ownership, legislation, sovereignty, corporation, state, estate, usury, charter, statute and democracy are all easily eposed and explained if people take the time to think, and the alternatives of these frauds form the basis of Islam, this basis is the true objective of a Muslim and the true Salat to establish, taxation is an imposition, as all the frauds are, but consider the law can not impose, it can only protect, if a law does not protect me, it does not apply to me.

Jafar

Salaam,

taxation is the imposition of compulsory levies on individuals or entities by governments. This is both unlawful and un-Qur'anic, I have been studying the law for sometime and have concluded how to remove the fictions Layth and others of the accumulated wealth elite wish to impose upon those around them for their benefit.

I don't see anything wrong with 'tax', being governed properly taxation shall bring many benefits to society.
Being governed properly; taxation shall bring (among others)

Public services for the welfare of the masses (education, health and infrastructure)
Good governance of the government with transparency and policy which being controlled by the public
Social security services for the poor, the elderly and the unfortunate

Without good governance and transparency taxation could be a 'one of the mechanism' for accumulating wealth from the masses to the political elite. (Public fund from taxes are being transferred to their swiss bank account).

I intentionally mentioned 'one of the mechanism', as there are many other mechanism to accumulate wealth from the masses and/or public asset towards the political elite's bank account without taxation. (ie Kickbacks from government contract/policy, bribe , Share from oil/gas revenue which flow to their personal account etc..)

The main issue should be "how to govern public fund/money" and not whether 'the taxation' itself are legal or not.

For many of the oil/gas rich countries, they don't need to impose tax upon their citizen to fund the 'state administration' given the state income from oil/gas revenue are more than enough to provide public services and make the 'state administration' work rolling. Nevertheless... such 'public fund/money' from oil/gas revenue should be properly governed with transparency to avoid corruption / misuse / accumulation of wealth towards the political elite.

The type of economy as described above is being called as "rent-based economy" there are positive as well (many) negative side of this type of economy, feel free to research about it on the internet or economy books.

For those countries who are not fortunate enough to have abundant natural resources (ie Japan or South Korea) and in which main economic activities are coming from services and/or human activities, taxation will be a key mechanism to provide 'public fund/money'. Without taxation those countries cannot provide proper public services for the masses.

This kind of economy usually bring more 'transparency' and control by the public towards their government, as the government are being funded by public through taxes. As thus they need to be accountable towards their 'master' (which is the public who paid taxes) on how they use and channel the public money. And the public will demand those transparency because they feel part of their income are being 'taken away' by the government.

Salam / Peace

Kaiokenred

I don't see anything wrong with 'tax', being governed properly taxation shall bring many benefits to society.
Being governed properly; taxation shall bring (among others)

Making Prime Ministers and/or Presidents rich
Corrupted government
Making Prime ministers and/or Presidents even richer

Without good governance and transparency taxation could be a 'one of the mechanism' for accumulating wealth from the masses to the political elite. (Public fund from taxes are being transferred to their swiss bank account).

I intentionally mentioned 'one of the mechanism', as there are many others mechanism to accumulate wealth from the masses towards political elite's bank account without taxation. (ie Kickbacks from government contract/policy, bribe , Share from oil/gas revenue which flow to their personal account etc..)

The main issue should be "how to govern public fund/money" and not whether 'the taxation' itself are legal or not.

For many of the oil/gas rich countries, they don't need to impose tax upon their citizen to fund the 'state administration' given the state income from oil/gas revenue are more than enough to provide public services and make the 'state administration' work rolling. Nevertheless... such 'public fund/money' from oil/gas revenue should be properly governed with transparency to avoid corruption / misuse / accumulation of wealth towards the political elite.

For those countries who are not fortunate enough to have abundant natural resources (ie Japan or Korea) and in which main economic activities are coming from services and/or human activities, taxation will be a key mechanism to provide 'public fund/money'. Without taxation those countries cannot provide proper public services for the masses.

Salam / Peace

Fixed that for you. Taxes or no taxes it's still that way

Jafar

Being governed improperly; taxation and/or state revenue from natural resources such as oil and gas shall bring (among others)

Making Prime Ministers and/or Presidents rich
Corrupted government
Making Prime ministers and/or Presidents even richer
Making the king and their royal family richer
Funding the royal family stellar cruise ship with casinos and dancing girls from sweden, ukraine and russia.
Buying luxurious estate for the royal family vacation house in swiss, las vegas or new york
Funding the luxurious lifestyle of the royal princes, where each of them have 4 wives, 100 concubines and 400 kids...
etc..

I fixed that for you as well...

Producer

paying tax is voluntary, if you want a government, pay for it.

Credit Money, and Tariffs funds Lincolns Government, during American Civil War.

Credit Money, and Tariffs funds USA in during World War 2

Ottoman Khalifate Empire dead because they tax their people too much.
Its Like Eating yourself For Food.

Jafar

Ottoman Khalifate Empire dead because they tax their people too much.

It's interesting how the "Ottoman Empire" convert the people to their 'state religion'..

Unlike the Catholic Church / Ruler where they 'force' the people to convert to the 'official state religion' which is Catholicism (Convert! or die a horrible death!!) the Ottoman do it through taxes..

Tax Official So what are you?

A Moslem (read Sunni, Shiites, Sufis), well your tax rate is X %
People of the book (Xtians, Jews etc..), your tax rate is 2X %
Others.. your tax rate 4X %
Tax Subject So you're saying when I'm a moslem I get lower taxes?
Tax Official Yes
Tax Subject Well I'm a muslim then!!
Tax Official But your name is "Bartholomeus"??
Tax Subject Nope.. I'm Achmed now.. and my wife is no longer Elizabeth she is Fatima now!

And mass of people convert to "Islam".. a policy which later being regretted by the Empire as it lower down their state income.. rotfl

Lesson learned Let the infidel be an infidel.. as long as they pay higher taxes.. rotfl rotfl rotfl

kgwithnob

TAX IS a sum of money demanded by a government for its support or for specific facilities or services, cover its operating expenses. Therefore, TAX must be compulsory, and is levied by laws of the state. levied upon incomes, property, sales, etc. The state needs money to be able to function properly and to

Let?s first determine what word/term is used in The Qur?aan for the term ?TAX?. Well, in The Qur?aan, the only compulsory/mandatory financial obligation upon the Muslims which is supposed to be paid on a regular basis is ZAKAAT. The term ZAKAAT is mentioned In The Qur?aan HAND-IN-HAND, and together with the word, SALAAT over 90% of the time. In fact almost every time the term SALAAT is mentioned, the term ZAKAAT is mentioned right after that. It means that we, as Muslims must be offering SALAAT and paying ZAKAAT on an ongoing/regular basis thoughout our life, no matter what.

The ZAKAAT/TAX is collected by the government of the ISLAMIC STATE to be spent for the welfare of the ISLAMIC society.

The amount and the rate of this TAX are not predetermined in The Qur?aan and depend upon the multitude of different and complex affairs and conditions within the society at the time.

Peace,
Khalil

Producer

2256
There shall be no compulsion in the religion.

Thus, Its a mutual Consent, The People, pay the Government to Defend them from Other Tyrannical Government.

People Make Govt to defend From Other Govt, Especially Evil Govt.

Only Allah is King, not Government, Government Serve God by Serving the People.

Al-Azhar

I don't see anything wrong with 'tax', being governed properly taxation shall bring many benefits to society.
Being governed properly; taxation shall bring (among others)

Public services for the welfare of the masses (education, health and infrastructure)
Good governance of the government with transparency and policy which being controlled by the public
Social security services for the poor, the elderly and the unfortunate

Without good governance and transparency taxation could be a 'one of the mechanism' for accumulating wealth from the masses to the political elite. (Public fund from taxes are being transferred to their swiss bank account).

I intentionally mentioned 'one of the mechanism', as there are many other mechanism to accumulate wealth from the masses and/or public asset towards the political elite's bank account without taxation. (ie Kickbacks from government contract/policy, bribe , Share from oil/gas revenue which flow to their personal account etc..)

The main issue should be "how to govern public fund/money" and not whether 'the taxation' itself are legal or not.

For many of the oil/gas rich countries, they don't need to impose tax upon their citizen to fund the 'state administration' given the state income from oil/gas revenue are more than enough to provide public services and make the 'state administration' work rolling. Nevertheless... such 'public fund/money' from oil/gas revenue should be properly governed with transparency to avoid corruption / misuse / accumulation of wealth towards the political elite.

The type of economy as described above is being called as "rent-based economy" there are positive as well (many) negative side of this type of economy, feel free to research about it on the internet or economy books.

For those countries who are not fortunate enough to have abundant natural resources (ie Japan or South Korea) and in which main economic activities are coming from services and/or human activities, taxation will be a key mechanism to provide 'public fund/money'. Without taxation those countries cannot provide proper public services for the masses.

This kind of economy usually bring more 'transparency' and control by the public towards their government, as the government are being funded by public through taxes. As thus they need to be accountable towards their 'master' (which is the public who paid taxes) on how they use and channel the public money. And the public will demand those transparency because they feel part of their income are being 'taken away' by the government.

Salam / Peace

My thoughtsexactly. I went to a Tax funded public school. My parents could never afford to send me to a private school. Same goes for the public health system. Taxes are used to provide roads to public transport to university research grants to the police force and courts and criminal justice system.

How is all this suppose to happen without adequate taxation?

2256
There shall be no compulsion in the religion.

You've posted this verse a few times now on this thread.
It is clear to me that you have a very different understanding of that verse. My understanding has always been with how the verse has generally been interpreted, and that is that Allah is saying that Religion/Faith is not compulsory. And that Islam is not compulsory. ie You DO NOT have to believe. Thus the verse where Allah says that the right path has been made clear from the wrong path etc.

Anyone else????

Producer

My thoughtsexactly. I went to a Tax funded public school. My parents could never afford to send me to a private school. Same goes for the public health system. Taxes are used to provide roads to public transport to university research grants to the police force and courts and criminal justice system.

How is all this suppose to happen without adequate taxation?

You've posted this verse a few times now on this thread.
It is clear to me that you have a very different understanding of that verse. My understanding has always been with how the verse has generally been interpreted, and that is that Allah is saying that Religion/Faith is not compulsory. And that Islam is not compulsory. ie You DO NOT have to believe. Thus the verse where Allah says that the right path has been made clear from the wrong path etc.

Anyone else????

My thoughtsexactly. I went to a Tax funded public school. My parents could never afford to send me to a private school. Same goes for the public health system. Taxes are used to provide roads to public transport to university research grants to the police force and courts and criminal justice system.

How is all this suppose to happen without adequate taxation?

Have you heard about "Credit Money"?

Youtube Video explaining what is "Credit Money" http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=cItHcLL61qs

The Credit Money, an Interest Free, Paper Money only loans out to Production of Physical Goods

Yes, Govt don't need to Tax, they can just Print Money, to Expand Production of Physical Goods.

with "Credit Money" system, you don't need to Tax!.
You can fund your Government by printing money as long, it is use to Expand Physical Economy like;

Agriculture, Fishery, Mining, Manufacturing - Necessities of Life.
Public Infrastructure, hydroelectric dams, Power Plants, Water treatment Plant, Schools, University, Transportation(Roads, Trains, Public Buses.)

Money has no value, The Real Value is how we Allocate the Physical Resources, and make it into Physical Goods.

Paper Money loan(Interest Free Credit Money, Printed by Govt), is use to expand a Farm, hire more Workers, acquire more resources(fertilizer, land, seeds)
How the Farm Profit? There are plenty others who take loans. Economic Growth, depends on Effective Money Supply Expansion(Money is Use, Successful Producing Physical Goods)
Inflation? Paper Money loan(Interest Free Credit Money, Printed by Govt) is only for Physical Economy, Producing Physical Goods. Cannot be loan to Gambling, unproductive activities.

You've posted this verse a few times now on this thread.
It is clear to me that you have a very different understanding of that verse. My understanding has always been with how the verse has generally been interpreted, and that is that Allah is saying that Religion/Faith is not compulsory. And that Islam is not compulsory. ie You DO NOT have to believe. Thus the verse where Allah says that the right path has been made clear from the wrong path etc.

Anyone else????

2256
There shall be no compulsion in the religion.

Jafar

Have you heard about "Credit Money"?

Youtube Video explaining what is "Credit Money" http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=cItHcLL61qs

The Credit Money, an Interest Free, Paper Money only loans out to Production of Physical Goods

It seems you're being confused with definition of "Credit Money" here..
Credit money is any claim against a physical or legal person that can be used for the purchase of goods AND services.

Credit Money as a loan can be with or without 'interest'.. it's actually has no correlation whatsoever..
Loan with Fiat Money (the common form of money today) can also be issued without interest or even more 'subsidized'..
(The debtor requires only to return less than 100% of the amount being loaned)

When there are too many 'token for exchange' (sometimes being called as money) in circulation, whatever the actual form for 'token of exchange' is (Gold, Silver, Seashell, Paper, Pearl, Number in the database) it shall naturally be 'devalued' or 'valued less' by the society. This social phenomenon is called 'inflation'.

Taxation in the past where the economy is not yet fully monetized can also be paid without money, if a farmer produce 1000 KG of rice then the tax being levied are 200 KG of rice (for example). If a farmer produce 10 sheeps then the tax being levied are 2 sheeps etc.. Assuming the tax rate are 20%.

I've been in a situation where I need to 'pay' 2 pigs in order to have 'safe passage' through a territory (you can call it 'entry tax' by modern definition). Because the local tribesman (read local government) doesn't recognize any money and their economy is not 'monetized'.

The issue will be how does the pigs generated from taxes being used within their society?
Does it become the personal property of the 'chief and their family'? (personal property of the ruling class)
Or is it being used for the 'common good' within their society?

That's actually the main issue...

Salam / Peace

Producer

4082

Have they not traveled through the land and observed how was the end of those before them? They were more numerous than themselves and greater in strength and in impression on the land, but they were not availed by what they used to earn.

This verse as my Guide;

Based on the History of Rise and Fall of United States of America. US use Interest free Credit Money for Resources Allocation and Building Infrastructure. Lincoln Won the Civil War, and build The US transcontinental Railroad. FDR, build so much Infrastructure, it help the push back Nazi Germany, and Defeat Japanese Empire.

The fall of USA, one simple answer, Usury.

Credit Money, is made for Resource Allocation for Production of Goods.
Production of Goods is Real Wealth like Food from Farming , Fishing.

USA don't use Commodity Money(Gold, Silver, Wheat) to Oppress the World.
They use Credit Money.

Credit Money is Like a Gun, Where People use it to Oppress other People or Defend Yourself.

Avoid Taxing yourself, Tax Foreigner, Alien, Not Yourself. Taxing yourself is Toxic.

Peace

Jafar

Based on the History of Rise and Fall of United States of America. US use Interest free Credit Money for Resources Allocation and Building Infrastructure. Lincoln Won the Civil War, and build The US transcontinental Railroad. FDR, build so much Infrastructure, it help the push back Nazi Germany, and Defeat Japanese Empire.

The fall of USA, one simple answer, Usury.

Nope, he uses 'fiat money', a money which are not backed by anything at all (gold or whatever) since they were lacking in such commodities at that time. The same way Hitler fund the 'revitalization' of german's military might after big losses on WWI. (research MEFO Bills)

"Fiat Money" alone (With or without interest is irrelevant) will not work without directing the country towards 'mercantilism' (read Banning import and controlling export, economy in isolation) . As "fiat money" depends on the 'trust' towards those who are issuing it. Usually it works only with the state citizens (where the authority lies) and not foreigners.

The negative effect of such policy is such country/state will become excluded from international trade and business. Japan and China did that in middle ages and the results is not good in the long run. It might works only in the short run.

Maoist China reinstate mercantilism during his period, (as part of the so called 'cultural revolution&#039 and it works miserably in the long run, although it seems to work during very few years of its implementation. Deng Xiaoping abandoned that approach and open up China for international trade and investment.

And the result is astonishing, go down to your local supermarket and see how china products are filling out the shelves. Monetary wise, they maintain a strict / controlled currencies (RMB) pegged / backed by commodities (gold,silver, exotic metals) and foreign currencies (USD,EURO,Yen,Baht) which they earn by exporting their products.

At the moment China is #1 in the world in term of reserves.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign_exchange_reserves

The down slide of USA (they're not yet fallen yet) is pretty much an 'old formula' being repeated all over again.

When a nation became wealthy and/or powerful they became 'lazy' and they tend to misuse their power and wealth (corruption). They wasted a lot of effort and resources on war which does not bring any benefits to the common good but only to a handful of elites.

Within USA (and also western europe) we're witnessing a 'de-industrialization' happening before our own eyes. Because China, India and other developing countries are more productive and innovative than they are now. China, India and other developing countries produce better and cheaper products and also provide better and cheaper services. The so-called 'first world country' cannot compete with the so-called 'third world country' as we speak.

Instead of realizing the fact, some of their political leader still living in a dream of 'first world supremacy' and waste efforts and resources towards endeavors which doesn't matter to the common people. (But perhaps matter so much for their personal wealth or ambition).

That's the main reason...

Within China, the government are 'giving away free non-collateral credits / loans in RMB' (not only it's without interest but it's subsidized!!) to promote job creation. With such cheap (read free) capital in hand they expand their businesses worldwide. We're witnessing companies such as CNOOC, Huawei, ZTE, FoxConn etc.. rapidly growing and expanding their businesses worldwide.

Smart 'western companies' are taking advantage of this China's government policy and moved their operations there and create jobs within china (while taking away jobs from their homeland). This again worsen the condition of their home country's economy and further boost china rapid industrialization and economy.

China does levied taxes to both foreigner and citizen within their territory. And this tax filled up the state coffers which enable them to maintain many variant of 'subsidy' and public services to their citizen.

At the same they are trying to combat corruption within their state organization because they knew very well corruption shall lead to downfall and misery. It's among few countries that I know who enforce 'death penalty' to officials who are guilty of taking bribes. Whether they succeed on this battle or they suffered the same fate as other 'wealthy countries' only time will tell.

Salam / Peace

Jafar

Nope, he uses 'fiat money', a money which are not backed by anything at all (gold or whatever) since they were lacking in such commodities at that time. The same way Hitler fund the 'revitalization' of german's military might after big losses on WWI. (research MEFO Bills)

"Fiat Money" alone (With or without interest is irrelevant) will not work without directing the country towards 'mercantilism' (read Banning import and controlling export, economy in isolation) . As "fiat money" depends on the 'trust' towards those who are issuing it. Usually it works only with the state citizens (where the authority lies) and not foreigners.

The negative effect of such policy is such country/state will become excluded from international trade and business. Japan and China did that in middle ages and the results is not good in the long run. It might works only in the short run.

Maoist China reinstate mercantilism during his period, (as part of the so called 'cultural revolution&#039 and it works miserably in the long run, although it seems to work during very few years of its implementation. Deng Xiaoping abandoned that approach and open up China for international trade and investment.

And the result is astonishing, go down to your local supermarket and see how china products are filling out the shelves. Monetary wise, they maintain a strict / controlled currencies (RMB) pegged / backed by commodities (gold,silver, exotic metals) and foreign currencies (USD,EURO,Yen,Baht) which they earn by exporting their products.

At the moment China is #1 in the world in term of reserves.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign_exchange_reserves

The down slide of USA (they're not yet fallen) is pretty much an 'old formula' being repeated all over again.

When a nation became wealthy and/or powerful they became 'lazy' and they tend to misuse their power and wealth (corruption). They wasted a lot of effort and resources on war which does not bring any benefits to the common good but only to a handful of elites.

Within USA (and also western europe) we're witnessing a 'de-industrialization' happening before our own eyes. Because China, India and other developing countries are more productive and innovative than they are now. China, India and other developing countries produce better and cheaper products and also provide better and cheaper services. The so-called 'first world country' cannot compete with the so-called 'third world country' as we speak.

Instead of realizing the fact, some of their political leader still living in a dream of 'first world supremacy' and waste efforts and resources towards endeavors which doesn't matter to the common people. (But perhaps matter so much for their personal wealth or ambition).

That's the main reason...

Within China, the government are 'giving away free non-collateral credits / loans in RMB' (not only it's without interest but it's subsidized!!) to promote job creation. With such cheap (read free) capital in hand they expand their businesses worldwide. We're witnessing companies such as CNOOC, Huawei, ZTE, FoxConn etc.. rapidly growing and expanding their businesses worldwide.

Smart 'western companies' are taking advantage of this China's government policy and moved their operations there and create jobs within china (while taking away jobs from their homeland). This again worsen the condition of their home country's economy and further boost china rapid industrialization and economy.

China does levied taxes to both foreigner and citizen within their territory. And this tax filled up the state coffers which enable them to maintain many variant of 'subsidy' and public services to their citizen.

At the same they are trying to combat corruption within their state organization because they knew very well corruption shall lead to downfall and misery. It's among few countries that I know who enforce 'death penalty' to officials who are guilty of taking bribes. Whether they succeed on this battle or they suffered the same fate as other 'wealthy countries' only time will tell.

Salam / Peace

Producer

Nope, he uses 'fiat money', a money which are not backed by anything at all (gold or whatever) since they were lacking in such commodities at that time. The same way Hitler fund the 'revitalization' of german's military might after big losses on WWI. (research MEFO Bills)
Salam / Peace

Fiat Money is a Power to Oppress or Liberate.

USA defeat Nazi Germany and Japan Empire not with Gold but with Paper. Germany reconstruction after World War is because of Fiat Money.

"Fiat Money" alone (With or without interest is irrelevant) will not work without directing the country towards 'mercantilism' (read Banning import and controlling export, economy in isolation) . As "fiat money" depends on the 'trust' towards those who are issuing it. Usually it works only with the state citizens (where the authority lies) and not foreigners.

China is using "Mercantilism" right Now. USA must use Mercantilism.
The People re-establish their Authority of Issuing Money, and remove the Foreign Bankers.

Maoist China reinstate mercantilism during his period, (as part of the so called 'cultural revolution&#039 and it works miserably in the long run, although it seems to work during very few years of its implementation. Deng Xiaoping abandoned that approach and open up China for international trade and investment.

Maoist China stupid Central Planning.

And the result is astonishing, go down to your local supermarket and see how china products are filling out the shelves. Monetary wise, they maintain a strict / controlled currencies (RMB) pegged / backed by commodities (gold,silver, exotic metals) and foreign currencies (USD,EURO,Yen,Baht) which they earn by exporting their products.

At the moment China is #1 in the world in term of reserves.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign_exchange_reserves

Salam / Peace

Slave Labor Wages are Cheap. China Mercantilism. RMB are not backed by Gold&Silver. RMB are backed by their Physical Economy.

The down slide of USA (they're not yet fallen yet) is pretty much an 'old formula' being repeated all over again.

When a nation became wealthy and/or powerful they became 'lazy' and they tend to misuse their power and wealth (corruption). They wasted a lot of effort and resources on war which does not bring any benefits to the common good but only to a handful of elites.

Lazy is Natural, its up to those who immune to it, the Hardworking People to save themselves, their community, their society.

Within USA (and also western europe) we're witnessing a 'de-industrialization' happening before our own eyes. Because China, India and other developing countries are more productive and innovative than they are now. China, India and other developing countries produce better and cheaper products and also provide better and cheaper services. The so-called 'first world country' cannot compete with the so-called 'third world country' as we speak.

"Free Trade" is bad for USA. Main cause for 'de-industrialization'. China use Mercantilism. USA can compete by using Mercantilism. No more Free Trade for USA. Mercantilism can save USA.

Instead of realizing the fact, some of their political leader still living in a dream of 'first world supremacy' and waste efforts and resources towards endeavors which doesn't matter to the common people. (But perhaps matter so much for their personal wealth or ambition).

That's the main reason...

Win the Politics. Politics can be use for Evil or Good. Good people must win it.

Within China, the government are 'giving away free non-collateral credits / loans in RMB' (not only it's without interest but it's subsidized!!) to promote job creation. With such cheap (read free) capital in hand they expand their businesses worldwide. We're witnessing companies such as CNOOC, Huawei, ZTE, FoxConn etc.. rapidly growing and expanding their businesses worldwide.

Agree. USA must do that too.

Smart 'western companies' are taking advantage of this China's government policy and moved their operations there and create jobs within china (while taking away jobs from their homeland). This again worsen the condition of their home country's economy and further boost china rapid industrialization and economy.

Agree. USA must do that too.

China does levied taxes to both foreigner and citizen within their territory. And this tax filled up the state coffers which enable them to maintain many variant of 'subsidy' and public services to their citizen.

Agree. USA must do that too.

At the same they are trying to combat corruption within their state organization because they knew very well corruption shall lead to downfall and misery. It's among few countries that I know who enforce 'death penalty' to officials who are guilty of taking bribes. Whether they succeed on this battle or they suffered the same fate as other 'wealthy countries' only time will tell.

Solve Poverty, Solve Corruption.

2268
Satan threatens you with poverty and orders you to immorality, while Allah promises you forgiveness from Him and bounty. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.

Making food so abundance, its Free, is Main Action to solve Poverty.
No need Money to buy Food. No need Silver&Gold to buy Food.

"Victory Garden" during World War 2. http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Gs7Vik75k

in Conclusion

So we can agree, Fiat Money can be use for Evil or Good?
Put Good People in Government.
Create a Good Government to Defend US against Evil Government.
In "Free Market", you are Free to make "Fiat Money", Mercantilism, Community, a Country with borders and Tariffs.

Abdun_Nur

Salaam,

'we need taxation'?

Do we? And who is the ?we? you reference, does it include all those who do not wish to pay taxation for the services they may not want?

I do not want the monopolies of services imposed by any government, they are inefficient, and unaccountable, and the alternative is far far better. All services you require must be established through personal responsibility, are you a child, or mentally incompetent?

In the law if you require someone else to make decisions for you then the law deems you either a child or mentally incompetent, if you need representing by a government you are like an irresponsible child, you accept blindly the dictates of the parent, unfortunately with all government as parent they function as a clinical psychopath.

Instead of thinking government corporations provide something, think what they cost, and investigate the alternative ways in which to establish services that require no government, only community, the natural law of the land provides a structure to function within as a man or woman of social freedom, it is in establishing this as a basis you take back your responsibilities, you make yourself fully liable for your actions, you establish lawful protection without imposition, this is the way forward to implement Islam once more upon the earth.

Muhammad did not tax, he could never have done so as he was establishing Islam, which demands you take responsibility for yourself, Muhammad did however establish lawful contracts with people who wished to join the community, not as a state, not as a government, not as a nation, not to be subjects, but a contract to exist with the natural law of the land, under its protection.

Producer

There is government in community. There is a parent in Family. Governmne to Self, is Self-Government.

Before we find alternative, we have to setup a good environment with tried and tested methods.

Sure, find alternative method, when Anglo-American Imperialist at war with the world. I did said "Imperialist" most American, Anglo are not Imperialist, Some are.

British Empire is not dead, the still have Canada and Australia. French Imperialist is at war with Libya recently.

Why Imperialist bad...they are in poverty, they need to own the world. Will Anglo-American Imperialist be good someday?

The only good Imperialist are dead Imperialist.

Abdun_Nur

Salaam,

are you a child?

Do you need a parent to impose upon you as a superior?

If so you are free to allow a sovereign government to dictate upon you, but you are not a Muslim if you do so, as Allah is the only sovereign.

Are you trying to remove your responsibilities and seek another to take them, in the form of a representative, then being viewed in law as mentally incompetent?

If so you are a slave, you bind yourself to the service of a master for the benefits they grant you.

The misery of the world is in the ignorance and apathy from people who could do something to remove the parasites, but remain silent or worse give support to the slave masters, in this modern prison planet of free range slave farms.

The answer is within the four models of Islam, the most powerful change will arrive when people once more see Islam as a way to exist in the world and shed the religion designed to hold them in poverty and ignorance.

Read the contract of community which explains the natural law of the land, of every land on earth, if you want to see how lawful society is structured without government, do not be so quick to give blind support to the only system you have been exposed to.

Producer

"All Sex is Rape"?
"All Government is Totalitarian"?
what do you think?

Salaam,

are you a child?

Do you need a parent to impose upon you as a superior?

I do not say that.

If so you are free to allow a sovereign government to dictate upon you, but you are not a Muslim if you do so, as Allah is the only sovereign.

I do not allow a Man-made sovereign government to dictate upon me.
Allah is the only sovereign government to dictate upon me.

Are you trying to remove your responsibilities and seek another to take them, in the form of a representative, then being viewed in law as mentally incompetent?

I do not.

If so you are a slave, you bind yourself to the service of a master for the benefits they grant you.

I am not slave to other Human. I grow my own food, my life depends on Allah.

The misery of the world is in the ignorance and apathy from people who could do something to remove the parasites, but remain silent or worse give support to the slave masters, in this modern prison planet of free range slave farms.

Share with us, your experience on removing the Parasites. It'll may be great help to all.

The answer is within the four models of Islam, the most powerful change will arrive when people once more see Islam as a way to exist in the world and shed the religion designed to hold them in poverty and ignorance.

Kindly, show me/produce a thread that explains the "four models of Islam", and I will judge by what Allah has revealed.

Read the contract of community which explains the natural law of the land, of every land on earth, if you want to see how lawful society is structured without government,

Semantics Argument. Governing your self is a Government.

Government can be mean "Total Government", "Limited Government" or a Human Being Govern by no other human but by their self("Self-Government&quot.

Evidence of "Self-Government";

Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves (Quran 1311)

do not be so quick to give blind support to the only system you have been exposed to.

"only system", now that plain "lying accusation". I have 8 editions of Black's Law Dictionary. I know Common Law/Natural Law. I know Republic System, I know Monarchy system, I know "True Communism" system, I even know Jacque Fresco system.
"only systems" is more correct.

"Government" can be "Limited Government",eg. limited to the prescribe duty assign to them and made not "sovereign government".

To you too. "Freeman on the Land", its good when the other Government, ie Canada-British corporations abide to Common Law/Natural Law.

Have a Stinger Missile if you're living in Yemen, bombarded by Predator Drones as Common Law do nothing to Criminals and Outlaws.

"Freeman on the Land" Jokes
Producer I DO NOT GIVE CONSENT to be bomb by Predator Drones.
Criminals Sorry we are Criminals, what do you expect?
Producer Eat my FIM-92 Stinger Missile!
Criminals Haha, we have thousands more
Producer ...I need more Stinger Missile !!!

What do you think? "All Government is Totalitarian"?

Abdun_Nur

Salaam Producer,

you write 'without' understanding the subject, yet you live in a world under the control of dominating systems and do not grasp how they function, the media whore of the accumulated wealth elite misdirect and confuse the truth endlessly.

I can explain a single system for you to make it clear, I have written an affidavit of allodium claim as a method to take back our inalienable right to exist without being the slaves of the elite, if you read that short affidavit example you will understand ownership, if you want to understand the allodial right of use system I'll also give you that link

http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/197/239/

Allodial right of use

http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/68/98/