You shall beat your wife
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Peace scaredmuslimah.
It does not mean they take your child from you. What made read it as that?They both have equal right . However the first two years, the mother has the right, she is first choice. She is the one who is looking after the child.
Other verses clarify this elsewhere in Qoran.
Peace.
When I first came to Islam I was told that is what that meant...that if a couple ever divorced and the woman remarried, the husband had the right to the child over the mother. I understand the first two years because the woman is more than likely still breastfeeding and caring for the child.
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Peace huruf.
I cleared up that verse. The husband s wishes prevail. He has a right to the " child" as well( in case of pregnancy)
That does not mean " female" have no right.
Peace.
I really do not see what you want to convey nor see what you say that you clear up or where you do it. I am completely confused as to what you say and to what you mean.
That is why I asked from where exactly in the text you get that men have an extra right and in what consisted that extra right.
Salaam
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Peace huruf.
I shall try once more, here is my final attempt at what I mean by the right of the husband according to the verse.
The husband has the right to know if the woman is pregnant. She must be honest and declare the pregnancy. The waiting period is specifically in case the woman is pregnant.
The husband also has the right to ask for reconciliation, ( to remarry). In that case,The woman is responsible to consider the offer .
What she chooses is up to her. To reconcile is better for both .
If they cannot reconcile, then there are solutions in other " divorce" verses.
Peace.
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So fine, I don't see in that verse, even as you state it, any special right that the husband has that the wife does not. It is the dute of the woman as also stated in 4.34 to guard the lineage of the offspring and not keep it for herself. I do not see it as a duty exclusive to the husband, but as a duty in general in the first place towards the offspring and to society also in general.
The only thing that where you say
"The waiting period is specifically in case the woman is pregnant."
would rather be
"to see if the woman is pregnant",
because if it is already known that she is pregnant. If it is known that she is pregnant, they should have made arrangements before the divorce, logically.
Also, there is nothing that I see that would prevent the woman to seek remarriage to the ex husband, and what the Qur'an does, I think, is to push the man to make the offer rather than leave that to the woman, and thus show his sense of responsibility towards her and the child.
Salaam
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Peace huruf.
I agree with there is nothing that I see that would prevent the woman to seek remarriage to the ex husband,
Except , in the verse GOD is talking to " al mutatallakat" -women- about the husbands. Had it been the other way around, perhaps similar would have been said to "wives".
Thank you for the conversation.
Peace. -
That scares the mess out of me...the though that my husband can take my child away from me just because we get divorced and just because he has the right. No wonder so many women put up with abuse and mistreatment from their husbands...I wouldn't want my child taken from me either!
Salaam Amina
We are supposed to say what is just and impartial, even if it's against our loved ones or our own gender. Do you not think that it is equally scary for a father to have his child taken away from him in a divorce?!
I feel you are a brave and sensible and God fearing person so you would agree that a child needs both parents. Maybe that's why Allah gives the father charge of his children, despite the mother's strong maternal bond with her children, so that divorce will be the last option for both parties.
I know that you are going through very hard times and I may sound harsh to you but the fact is girls or boys both need their father and their mother equally and both parents love their children so no one has the right to deprive a devoted parent of his/her right to raise the children.
Peace -
Salaam Amina
We are supposed to say what is just and impartial, even if it's against our loved ones or our own gender. Do you not think that it is equally scary for a father to have his child taken away from him in a divorce?!
I feel you are a brave and sensible and God fearing person so you would agree that a child needs both parents. Maybe that's why Allah gives the father charge of his children, despite the mother's strong maternal bond with her children, so that divorce will be the last option for both parties.
I know that you are going through very hard times and I may sound harsh to you but the fact is girls or boys both need their father and their mother equally and both parents love their children so no one has the right to deprive a devoted parent of his/her right to raise the children.
PeaceThe child should be given to the parent who is most capable of providing the child with a proper future. You cannot make a general rule of giving the child to a father just because he is the father or to the mother just because she is the mother. Every case shall be treated individually, and not based on gender. If both parents are caring and capable of upbringing the child, the child can eventually be given to both where both parents share equal time with the child.
Peace
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Scaredmuslimah,
I do not think that at any time it has been a question of taking the child away from anybody. That heinous attitude springs from a mentality where the child is a property and not a person, and in countries where people have not been used to divorce or broken marriages it has often been used by parents, particularly husbands as a weapon to bludgeon the other partner. That is, children have been used, and still are used, as a weapon. I have seen it many times, parents (mostly fathers) going out of their way to get the children and then hand them down to their grondmother or some other persons without any intention to care personally for them just for the sake of harming the mother. On the other hand, it has been taken also for granted that the children be taken care of by the mother as if no father was ever worth or capable of doing that.
All those attitudes are very destructive, and must ve overcome. Divorce is a trial, but there is no reason why after it people should be sworn enemies and snatch at everything to take "revenge". Children are not theirs, they are their job in this life, their trial and a means to grow. They are not things nor property.
If the people who divorce are decent enough to care for their own problem with the other without taking it on the children, most likely there would always be a way to keep everybody reasonably happy. If they alone are not able to find a satisfactory agreement, then other people should help with counsel or other help to make things easy for the couple and the children.
The disputes over them are horribly harming and painful because parents just fear that, that they are going to loose their children. Of course they are not going to loose anything just because they relinquish any amount of absolute control. A time will come when they will loose all control, so they must change the way they think about their children, and of course laws and the way they are applied may help or hinder that.
Actually, when people see that their children go away with the other parent and thay they come back with all normality and they still remember the parent they left and love him or her, normality re-establishes itself and everybody realises that nothing terrible has happened, life has changed, but the parents are still the parents, although they may not be married, but the world has not gone asunder because of that.
Let alone that the right to have access to both parents as much as feasible is a right of the child, unless of course they do harm the child.
Salaam
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Salaam Amina
We are supposed to say what is just and impartial, even if it's against our loved ones or our own gender. Do you not think that it is equally scary for a father to have his child taken away from him in a divorce?!
I feel you are a brave and sensible and God fearing person so you would agree that a child needs both parents. Maybe that's why Allah gives the father charge of his children, despite the mother's strong maternal bond with her children, so that divorce will be the last option for both parties.
I know that you are going through very hard times and I may sound harsh to you but the fact is girls or boys both need their father and their mother equally and both parents love their children so no one has the right to deprive a devoted parent of his/her right to raise the children.
PeaceI guess...I don't know what to think. My heart would be eternally broken at my daughter being legally taken from me and with her father. I have honestly thought of never re-marrying just to keep my child. I have no issue with my child having a relationship with either parent, as I was never kept from my father. Then again, my parents aren't Muslim so what applies here doesn't apply to them.
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I guess...I don't know what to think. My heart would be eternally broken at my daughter being legally taken from me and with her father. .
Salaam Amina
t?s not only you but your daughter too would be traumatised if she was taken away from a loving mother. There is no denying that separation from a loving and caring mother is worse than from a father.I have honestly thought of never re-marrying just to keep my child.
?ll tell you a true account of one woman whose husband wanted to keep the kids; not out of out of a sense of his right or out of love for the children, but out of vindictivness. The woman, being a believer, prayed to Allah to give her the strenght to do what is right, and then gathered all her fortitude and told her husband to keep the child, as it was his responsibility, she also mentioned to him that she was now at liberty to remarry as, in Islam, a woman should be, following divorce. The thought of being lumbered with child care and seeing her free to remarry caused her husband to freak out and so never bothered to ask for custody.
I have no issue with my child having a relationship with either parent, as I was never kept from my father. Then again, my parents aren't Muslim so what applies here doesn't apply to them
If your husband is indeed a believer he would never consider severing the ties of womb, as that act is a sin in Islam
Peace
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Salaam Amina
t?s not only you but your daughter too would be traumatised if she was taken away from a loving mother. There is no denying that separation from a loving and caring mother is worse than from a father. ?ll tell you a true account of one woman whose husband wanted to keep the kids; not out of out of a sense of his right or out of love for the children, but out of vindictivness. The woman, being a believer, prayed to Allah to give her the strenght to do what is right, and then gathered all her fortitude and told her husband to keep the child, as it was his responsibility, she also mentioned to him that she was now at liberty to remarry as, in Islam, a woman should be, following divorce. The thought of being lumbered with child care and seeing her free to remarry caused her husband to freak out and so never bothered to ask for custody. If your husband is indeed a believer he would never consider severing the ties of womb, as that act is a sin in IslamPeace
Farida,
I agree and thank you for sharing.
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The truth hurts. I don't have to make an effort to do much to be honest. I simply present the facts from the common translations. I mean if you guys want to discuss Qur'an I just go on Qur'an.com and the 8 most established translations from Pickthal, Yusuf Ali, Dr. Ghalil, Sahih International, etc. all are available. They usually all say the same thing if not in slightly different terms. If this is a forum for Qur'an discussion why can I not provide these mainstream translations? These are the translations I assume most Muslims use. I have a Yusuf Ali translation on my dresser and my Maulana Muhammad Ali translation is in New York with my father so I use what I have available.
In actuality I don't have to make an effort to do anything because the facts are on my side. You accuse me of treachery and dishonesty when all I present are facts. Truth will always triumph over falsehood. Next time look at the facts I'm presenting instead of getting disgruntled that you think I'm making your holy Qur'an may contain misogyny or violence. I've never changed the words of the Qur'an and never will. I think it's insulting to do so. But I will use credible translations to quote the Qur'an so next time you see a problem with the verses I present then question the holy Qur'an itself not the messenger.
handshake
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Very -_______-
Why do you use ARGUMENTUM AD POPULUM to prove your arguments?
Just because many says so, doesn't mean that they are right.
If the word idriboo in 434 is translated into BEAT, verse 434 and 435 woudn't be consistent.
DRB is just a multi-meaning word.
|434| admonish ---> separate from sleeping-places ---> IDRIBOO |435| fear a permanent rift/separation ---> reconcile
The translation of idriboo into SEPARATE FROM in the verse 434 is perfect because 434-35 would be consistent.I know that faithful-jinn is atheist.
Yeah of course, some Rashadans also agree with this kind of fallacious argument because RK also translated the word into BEAT.
Anyway I don't come to here to yell at Submitters (RK followers) but just to prove my simple point that the people who posted on this thread (Faithful-Jinn) made fallacious/invalid argument.
No offenceRegards,
Yuliana -
Just because many says so, doesn't mean that they are right.
They plagiarized without even consulting lexicons both of Arabic and English or even revisiting original text of Qur'aan.
George Sale; John Medows Rodwell and Arthur John Arberry laid the foundation to interpret this word as "scourge; chastise; beat them". Learned Yusuf Ali translated it as "(And last) beat them (lightly)". He seems to have expressed his "kindness" for women by placing "lightly" in the parentheses. Learned Pickthal like George Sale, on the contrary, seemed to have no sympathy for wives. He translated it, "and scourge them". It is hard to think that by using this word he meant to severely criticize them and not whip them.
The most unfortunate aspect of advocating domestic violence is that it insults the Arabic Word Islam; a verbal noun, and as is known it denotes action and a state. This Verbal Noun is such which deserves attain the title of "sublime interaction". It signifies a healthy state of exactitude, validity, truth; and absolved causing wellness and tranquility. And therein is no deviation, irregularity, oddity, and abnormality disturbing wellness and tranquility. It portrays a state of peace, safety, tranquility and dynamic balance wherein the man is secure from all things causing damage and disablement.
Arabic words take birth from Roots. Each Root has a specifically defined and distinctly conspicuous perception folded in it. Words, originating from Roots on well defined patterns-moulds-structuring frames, retain the original perception infolded in its Root, dominantly and conspicuously, with additional meanings and connotation, shades and colours added by the peculiar pattern-placing of vowels-syllabification, and addition of consonants. Moreover, relational aspect of the semantic field will also influence and add connotations to the word. Hence; the meanings, perception and connotation of an Arabic Word is the composite whole of the perception infolded in its Root, coupled with meanings associated with its pattern, and its relation to the semantic field where it is used. It signifies that the basic meanings of a Root and word do not exhaust when they are used in a different semantic field, relational area, while necessarily retaining the base meanings.
The basic perception, meanings and signification infolded in this Root " " as stated in Lane Lexicon is,
"accord. to Er-R?ghib, signifies the making a thing to fall upon another thing;" It reflects that its effect may necessarily not be of causing hurt. It reflects an instance; an illustration or an occurrence. The most equivalent word in English vocabulary to describe the basic perception and its various uses in different semantic fields is verb "strike". It denotes; to fall or shine on something; to make something noticed; make something to be perceived or become audible-understandable for someone; to make some idea enter somebody's mind or occur to somebody; to penetrate or seem to go right through something; make something by stamping; and to remove something away-displace. And taking support and help of other words its use signifies to hit somebody or something with a hand, tool, weapon, or other object. Obvious intention in such strike is to hurt, damage, dislocate, dislodge, deform, shape or stamp the target with force. Moreover, support words will be required if the intention of the speaker is to indicate the instance as involving repeated strikes to reflect what is denoted by English word "beating"; punishment in which somebody is repeatedly hit.Grand Qur'aan has prohibited domestic violence negating erroneous "belief" of beating one's wife.
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A man who puts his hands on a woman is a coward and has some deeper issues within himself
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A man who puts his hands on a woman is a courage and has some deeper issues within himself
If parents spanking their children is not a crime (spanking out of love to discipline the children), then how is husband physically disciplining his wife a crime??
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If parents spanking their children is not a crime (spanking out of love to discipline the children), then how is husband physically disciplining his wife a crime??
You are Disgusting i know this is what you think but is disgusting let me ask you something do you want someone to put there hands on you? do you want some to put there hand on the loving caring women that raised you? do you want someone to hit your sister? NO so how can you type this a child and a women is different there mentality is different
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You are Disgusting i know this is what you think but is disgusting let me ask you something do you want someone to put there hands on you? do you want some to put there hand on the loving caring women that raised you? do you want someone to hit your sister? NO so how can you type this a child and a women is different there mentality is different
You didn't answer my question. When loving parents spank their children who were misbehaving, is that "disgusting"? Then you have declared majority of loving parents as "disgusting"!!
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Dont you ever put something in my mouth that i haven't said you are ignorant what the hell a child have to do with a grown women a women isnt a child and isnt a property of no one but allah and i answered your question a women mentality is different from a child mentality but you didnt answer my question would you like someone to hit your mother whether it be your father or another man
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Dont you ever put something in my mouth that i haven't said you are ignorant what the hell a child have to do with a grown women a women isnt a child and isnt a property of no one but allah and i answered your question a women mentality is different from a child mentality but you didnt answer my question would you like someone to hit your mother whether it be your father or another man
A child is still a human being like a woman.