''Nisa'' does NOT mean Women and Rejaal does NOT mean men
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By the way if someone could eloborate further on the meanings by using Arabic grammar it would be very helpful. Thanks.
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37 He is the One who sent down to you the book, from which there are definite signs; they are the essence of the book; and others, which are multiple-meaning. As for those who have disease in their hearts, eager to cause confusion and eager to derive their interpretation, they will follow what is multiple-meaning from it. But none knows their meaning except God and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say, "We acknowledge it, all is from our Lord." None will remember except the people of intellect.
Whoever translated this, he did not know difference between feminine and masculine words of Arabic. Nor he knows difference between active participle and passive participle.
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Hey all,
You have an interesting take on certain verses in the Quran but you seem to lack a bit of common sense. What would be the point of preserving a text without the proper translation??? If I had an Arabic text and I don't know what the translation is then why bother with such a unless book? What's worst is if the Arabic translation is not preserved it would mean that not even those who know Arabic would know its true translation! Is this God's idea of a joke!!! Or does the verse truly mean that both the translation and the text of the Quran are persevered???
Any intelligent person would know that you need both in order to preserve a text which is to be used for future generations. You can't have a text without a proper translation! It would cause confusion.If the translation is not preserved then NO ONE knows what the Quran teaches. Not even you.
Brother, what exactly does this mean? It makes very little sense to me. Of course the translation is not preserved o was the Qur'an translated by Allah into other languages that I am not aware of? WhereistheTruth is absolutely correct in saying that there can be discrepancies between different english translations of the book, we come across them many times.
Heck, even a book of poetry or prose written in German right now would have many different translations into the English language. God did not preserve the translations - those are man-made and, thus, subject to fault. No, Allah created the classical arabic Qur'an that we must base our conclusions from. (I don't know arabic btw so I too must, in a sense, place some faith in the translators.)
Because of my lack of knowledge, obviously I am not of much use here, but I think it's an interesting discussion to have. Obviously we must note that the Qur'an is the best dictionary.
Here is a site that has been posted before that may add to the discussion
http//revolutionpsyche.wordpress.com/2011/07/18/if-nisa-meant-women/
Thanks.
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Hey all,
Brother, what exactly does this mean? It makes very little sense to me. Of course the translation is not preserved was the Qur'an translated by Allah into other languages that I am not aware of? WhereistheTruth is absolutely correct in saying that there can be discrepancies between different english translations of the book, we come across them many times.
Heck, even a book of poetry or prose written in German right now would have many different translations into the English language. God did not preserve the translations - those are man-made and, thus, subject to fault. No, Allah created the classical arabic Qur'an that we must base our conclusions from. (I don't know arabic btw so I too must, in a sense, place some faith in the translators.)
Because of my lack of knowledge, obviously I am not of much use here, but I think it's an interesting discussion to have. Obviously we must note that the Qur'an is the best dictionary.
Here is a site that has been posted before that may add to the discussion
http//revolutionpsyche.wordpress.com/2011/07/18/if-nisa-meant-women/
Thanks.
What I meant was the meaning and use of Arabic words. If the meanings of Arabic words are not preserved the Quran would be a useless scripture.
Translations and interpretations depend on
(1) Your relationship with God
(2) Your level of analytical skills
(3) Your intentions
(4) The stage of your spiritually development
(5) Your knowledge of the previous scriptures ( This is very important since the Quran is a CONTINUATION of the previous books. The Jews and Christians have a stronger foundation and knowledge in what is being taught in the Quran than ALL of the sects in Islam! )
(6) Your understanding of Arabic ( This doesn't play a major role in guidance but it is still an important one)This is why translations will always be different. People who are spiritually weak will have weak/inaccurate interpretations whilst people who are strong will have better translations and interpretations. The stronger your bond with God the better chance you have of understanding the Quran more accurately.
I am sorry but you are contradicting yourself. First you said that people means men and now you say that people means people but that some words apply only for men while others for both genders. There are no linguistic reason for stopping in the first half and apply something for the later. either people desire women children and wealth(lesbians lol) otherwise nisa does not mean women.
314 It has been adorned for people to love the desire of women , buildings, ornaments made from gold and silver, trained horses, the livestock, and fields. These are the enjoyment of the world, and with God is the best place of return.
desire of women = males only
buildings, ornaments made from gold and silver, trained horses, the livestock, and fields = females and males
A group of males are persons. A group of females are persons. People means "persons collectively or in general"
It can be a group of males , a group of females or both! ALL ARE PERSONS!!!Where is the contradiction????
Peace,
Kevin
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Kevin that is as You say people is not a gender its collectively. if god ment men why didnt he said men. So the desire for people is women which means there are lesbians among people lol rotfl. . I don't know what in the sentence make you think that its For males only since males.are not been mentioned at all O0 I think the reason for why you think people in the first example suddenly only are men is because you have a particular opinion about homosexuality while one lesbian in my university would say 'Gosh that's right. Women are our desires. And this verse is an allowance of lesbian homosexuality'' (and believe me I red in. Article that a homosexual group showed this verse as allowances for homosexuality for girls). So the word ''people'' is used wrong here if nisa are women. Tell me one more place in quran where people are men and you won't find it..
Meanings of the words preserved ?than how would you explain that we have so many words in Arabic which meanings are changing which time? I think.it would be more correct to say the meaning of the quran itself is preserved hy God to his true believers by his mercy and guidance.
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Hey all,
Brother, what exactly does this mean? It makes very little sense to me. Of course the translation is not preserved was the Qur'an translated by Allah into other languages that I am not aware of? WhereistheTruth is absolutely correct in saying that there can be discrepancies between different english translations of the book, we come across them many times.
Heck, even a book of poetry or prose written in German right now would have many different translations into the English language. God did not preserve the translations - those are man-made and, thus, subject to fault. No, Allah created the classical arabic Qur'an that we must base our conclusions from. (I don't know arabic btw so I too must, in a sense, place some faith in the translators.)
Because of my lack of knowledge, obviously I am not of much use here, but I think it's an interesting discussion to have. Obviously we must note that the Qur'an is the best dictionary.
Here is a site that has been posted before that may add to the discussion
http//revolutionpsyche.wordpress.com/2011/07/18/if-nisa-meant-women/
Thanks.
Thanks for the link brother. It was excately what i was looking for.
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Kevin that is as You say people is not a gender its collectively. if god ment men why didnt he said men. So the desire for people is women which means there are lesbians among people lol rotfl. . I don't know what in the sentence make you think that its For males only since males.are not been mentioned at all O0 I think the reason for why you think people in the first example suddenly only are men is because you have a particular opinion about homosexuality while one lesbian in my university would say 'Gosh that's right. Women are our desires. And this verse is an allowance of lesbian homosexuality'' (and believe me I red in. Article that a homosexual group showed this verse as allowances for homosexuality for girls). So the word ''people'' is used wrong here if nisa are women. Tell me one more place in quran where people are men and you won't find it..
Meanings of the words preserved ?than how would you explain that we have so many words in Arabic which meanings are changing which time? I think.it would be more correct to say the meaning of the quran itself is preserved hy God to his true believers by his mercy and guidance.
Now it is you who are contradicting yourself. If something is collective and not based on gender it can go either way(males only, females only or both male AND females together) which is what I have been showing to you. And since you like contradict others deceitfully just for the sake of making some foolish claim of the lack of women's rights which already exists in the Quran(women's rights) but not to your satisfaction again I will put up my previous post for the sake of the new people on this forum so that they would not be deceived by some woman bent on trashing the Quran for the sake of causing confusion and not for the sake of pursuing knowledge (at least to me that is how it looks like) here is my post again ....
314 It has been adorned for people to love the desire of women , buildings, ornaments made from gold and silver, trained horses, the livestock, and fields. These are the enjoyment of the world, and with God is the best place of return.
desire of women = males only
buildings, ornaments made from gold and silver, trained horses, the livestock, and fields = deals with females and males
Since as you say that people are collective (meaning a group of persons make up a people) it can go either way.
When God was referring to "the desire of woman" logic would dictate that since homosexuality is a gross sin that God was only referring to the males among 'the people". The rest of the scripture would encapsulate the males and the females.
So for the last time where is the contradiction?
Answer There is NONE!
PS This is a very sunni-like question "if god ment men why didnt he said men? " ( what goes around comes around . I remember you were a telling another member the same thing on a different topic. )
Wow so God didn't give us brains to think and to reason. How is it that I could logically dissect a verse and you can't ? What you want sister is a separate book for yourself.
Word of Advise Knowing Arabic plays an important part in translating the Quran but it isn't the most important part when it comes to UNDERSTANDING the Quran. It is better to understand one verse in the Quran than to translate hundreds of verses and not know what they mean.
Peace,
Kevin
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Now it is you who are contradicting yourself. If something is collective and not based on gender it can go either way(males only, females only or both male AND females together) which is what I have been showing to you. And since you like contradict others deceitfully just for the sake of making some foolish claim of the lack of women's rights which already exists in the Quran(women's rights) but not to your satisfaction again I will put up my previous post for the sake of the new people on this forum so that they would not be deceived by some woman bent on trashing the Quran for the sake of causing confusion and not for the sake of pursuing knowledge (at least to me that is how it looks like) here is my post again ....
314 It has been adorned for people to love the desire of women , buildings, ornaments made from gold and silver, trained horses, the livestock, and fields. These are the enjoyment of the world, and with God is the best place of return.
desire of women = males only
Accurate understanding.
in nominative state is the Proxy Subject of the Passive Verb. is prepositional phrase- . Grand Qur'aan does not say anything which is contrary to ground realities. It uses "some of the women". Men do not have attraction in all the women on earth. Each man may have attraction in some of the women.
When a noun signifying both the genders is used in relation to another word having specific gender only the opposite of that referred gender will be signified by the common gender noun.
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Now it is you who are contradicting yourself. If something is collective and not based on gender it can go either way(males only, females only or both male AND females together) which is what I have been showing to you. And since you like contradict others deceitfully just for the sake of making some foolish claim of the lack of women's rights which already exists in the Quran(women's rights) but not to your satisfaction again I will put up my previous post for the sake of the new people on this forum so that they would not be deceived by some woman bent on trashing the Quran for the sake of causing confusion and not for the sake of pursuing knowledge (at least to me that is how it looks like) here is my post again ....
314 It has been adorned for people to love the desire of women , buildings, ornaments made from gold and silver, trained u, the livestock, and fields. These are the enjoyment of the world, and with God is the best place of return.
desire of women = males only
buildings, ornaments made from gold and silver, trained horses, the livestock, and fields = deals with females and males
Since as you say that people are collective (meaning a group of persons make up a people) it can go either way.
When God was referring to "the desire of woman" logic would dictate that since homosexuality is a gross sin that God was only referring to the males among 'the people". The rest of the scripture would encapsulate the males and the females.
So for the last time where is the contradiction?
Answer There is NONE!
PS This is a very sunni-like question "if god ment men why didnt he said men? " ( what goes around comes around . I remember you were a telling another member the same thing on a different topic. )
Wow so God didn't give us brains to think and to reason. How is it that I could logically dissect a verse and you can't ? What you want sister is a separate book for yourself.
Word of Advise Knowing Arabic plays an important part in translating the Quran but it isn't the most important part when it comes to UNDERSTANDING the Quran. It is better to understand one verse in the Quran than to translate hundreds of verses and not know what they mean.
Peace, yeah
Kevin
Now i am confused. why are you suddenly talking about womens rights ? We were talking about if people means men or not so why do you suddenly jump to women's rights ? What has women's rights to do with the thread ? Or do you mean that its a woman right to be desired by men as the verse states according to you ? In any case i think we sha stick to the subject and eventually discuss women rights in another thread which is properly not so important for me personally since I don't lack any rights anyway and since i live in europe where women have more rights than men anyway. so 'men's rights' make more sense for me. offtopic
Now back to The subject please