A story told to me when I was little

Amica

My father's aunt, may she rest in peace, was an old lady who was religious. Her stepfather, may he rest in peace too, was an imam so she learned a lot from him. One time, she told me a story he told her
"There was once a young boy who wanted to learn about Allah SWT. All his friends attended weekend school to study suras, Arabic letters, prayers, etc. but he was not allowed. His father was an atheist and would not do anything with religion. One time the boy was planning go to the weekend religious school with his friends but his father found out and beat him. Poor boy did not know what to do. One day he was in the field watching over his sheep chewing grass, and he decided to pray. How, he did not know much. But, looking into the distance in front of him, the boy stood and whispered that he wants to pray to Allah SWT. He did not know any prayers in Arabic language, so crying, he began reciting 'White sheep, black sheep," since he was taking care of sheep Allah SWT blessed him with. Then,'Oh Allah, please help me.' In the mix came some of his own seeking of help from Allah SWT to help him soften his father's heart. That was his prayer. Every time he was alone, that is what he would do. One day, his father became very ill and everyone believed the father would die. Well, the little boy sat next to him, and started reciting his prayers 'White sheep, black sheep. Oh Allah, please help me. White sheep, black sheep. Oh Allah, please help my father." The more the boy prayed, the more the father got better. Finally healed, the father realized how a believer his son was that despite not knowing proper prayers, Allah SWT showed Mercy and helped. Moved by such determination of his son, the man decided he will send his son to learn Islam and that he himself will learn to pray as well. Soon enough the father and soon attended mosque for regular prayers together."

I found this story sad, but it was so long ago that I heard it. I hope I correctly wrote it. But I definately remember that the part of the boy's prayer was 'white sheep, black sheep.' The point of the story was, according to my dad's aunt (may she rip), was you need to have faith and hope in Allah SWT deep inside your heart. Nothing, not even understanding or knowing Arabic, should stop you from prayer.

Producer

332 Say, "Obey Allah and the Messenger. But if they turn away - then indeed, Allah does not like the disbelievers."

616 Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "... I am the messenger of Allah"

4363 Jesus brought clear proofs, he said, "I have come to you with wisdom and to make clear to you some of that over which you differ, so fear Allah and obey me.

2285 "We make no distinction between any of His messengers."

From the Verses above you must Follow and Obey what is Written in Jesus's Bible.

What Verse from Quran, that forbids you following and obeying what is written in Jesus's Bible?

Amica

I already answered you on another topic regarding Jesus and the Bible. If you are a Christian then why are you on a Muslim forum, Producer? I do not whish to convert to Christianity. Believe me, I had many opportunities if I so chose. But I never will. Please leave me alone.

Producer

I already answered you on another topic regarding Jesus and the Bible. If you are a Christian then why are you on a Muslim forum, Producer? I do not whish to convert to Christianity. Believe me, I had many opportunities if I so chose. But I never will. Please leave me alone.

How do you Discern/Identify which part of the Bible is True, which part of the Bible is False?

here the example;
Quran 61
praise is to Allah , who created the heavens and the earth

Bible 11
God created the heavens and the earth.

How do you Discern/Identify which part of the Bible is True, which part of the Bible is False?

Do you not See? the Huge Threats, the Christians can Pose upon Muslim, By using these Verses (Quran 332, 616, 4363, 2285, 61)?

The Christians are using these verses to turn Muslims into Christians!

Tyler_Durden

Producer,

Please stop. I mean that with all due respect. This post has absolutely nothing to do with hadith jesus or the bible. You repeat the same thing on literally every thread. We get it, is what I'm saying. Your posts are becoming more and more troll like. You have a good and valid point, can we move on now?

I'm sure you have a lot more to add to the conversation that copying and pasting every post. Hope you don't take offence as it is not meant so.

Respectfully,

Ty

Producer

Producer,

Please stop. I mean that with all due respect. This post has absolutely nothing to do with hadith jesus or the bible. You repeat the same thing on literally every thread. We get it, is what I'm saying. Your posts are becoming more and more troll like.

You Stop, I mean that with all due respect, We true Sunnah Believers, Me & Amica have Huge Problem, we have to solve it.

No Sunni have solve this Problem, I can not stop until a Sunni show a Verse forbidding the Following the Bible. or Which part of Bible is forbidden to Follow.

Sunni Islam is Doom, if the Problem is not Solve.

We get it,

You guys Reject Bukhari's Hadith, Amica Do not. Do you get it?

So don't bother us, when we face Sunni's Biggest Threats.

Peace and Thank you.

Jafar

The point of the story was, according to my dad's aunt (may she rip), was you need to have faith and hope in Allah SWT deep inside your heart. Nothing, not even understanding or knowing Arabic, should stop you from prayer.

Salam Amica,

I agree with your summary of the story.

However I have some 'objection' on painting 'the atheist' in such dark way, I'm not an atheist but I do have a lot of atheist friends who is not bad people at all.
I've heard similar other stories where 'the atheist' are being replaced by 'the jews' or 'the christians' as the 'villain' in the story.
It's not good to paint a bad stereotype about people to children.

Kaiokenred

I extremely doubt Salat means prayer, Islam is a deen and not a religion for worship
If you think God will magically change things in the world because someone prays you're deeply mistaken

Amica

I have met my share of atheists in my life and as a child hearing this story I did not take it to generalize all. What the story told me is that an atheist can be just as fanatical as a believer in their convictions. Also, what I heard from the story as a child is perseverance of a believer, the want from one's heart to believe. And belief in God Almighty SWT must come from the heart. One can follow all the rituals of a prayer, but the heart without belief causes prayer to be empty too. Also, I think the story was told to me because Arabic is not my native language. I found myself not understanding much of what surahs I was reciting. The fact that the little kid did not too, but was shown Mercy by Allah SWT, gave me hope that Allah SWT will show me Mercy too.

Amica

Producer, here is your answer to your repeated Bible and Jesus question. I posted it on the other thread, but since you did not read it, here it is again

The word "Bible" is not mentioned in the Noble Qur'an. What Noble Qur'an mentions is

The Book of Abraham (no where found in today's Bible),
the Book of Moses or Taurat (which is not the 39 books of today's Old Testament and they are NOT the first five of them called Pentateuch as those have more than one written source),
Zabur of David pbuh (In the Old Testament of the Bible, there are Five Books of Psalms comprising of 150 Psalms. Out of these 150, a total of 73 Psalms are ascribed to Prophet David; 51 to anonymous writers, 12 to Asaph or his descendants; 9 to the sons of Korah -temple assistants; 2 to King Solomon and one each to Heman, Ethan (a musician) and Prophet Moses.
Injeel/Gospel revealed to Jesus pbuh (which is different from the Gospels from the four apostles because Injeel confirmed Taurat and I already mentioned that Taurat is not all that is written in today's Old Testament)
The Revelations to other prophets as stated in this ayat "Say ye "We believe in Allah and the revelation given to us and to Abraham, Ismai'l, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes and that given to Moses and Jesus and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord we make no difference between one and another of them and we bow to Allah (in Islam)." 2 136. Today's Bible has no books ascribed to Ismai'l, Isaac, Jacob or the Tribes.
The Noble Qur'an Revelation.

The Holy Qur'an states "But because of their breach of their Covenant We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the Message that was sent them nor wilt thou cease to find them barring a few ever bent on (new) deceits but forgive them and overlook (their misdeeds) for Allah loveth those who are kind." 5 13

Producer

We still have this problem;

Quran 61
praise is to Allah , who created the heavens and the earth

Bible 11
God created the heavens and the earth.

We must obey Quran 61 and disobey Bible 11 ?
Quran 61 is True, Bible 11 is False?

Bible 11 is False? Yes or No?

Amica

No one said all of the Bible is fake or false. Even the Noble Qur'an states that not all of it is true. But why follow the Bible the way it is today when you have the Noble Qur'an?

Producer, if you want to follow and believe all of the Bible as it is today, then that means you accept Christianity's teaching that Jesus is "son of God" and your "Lord." Also, if you believe that OT and NT are 100% of Divine Origin (I believe some of it might be, but not all of it), then you agree with stoning and burning to death of women who commit adultery (see OT), you believe non-believers in God are to be put to death immediately (OT), no tolerance for religions other than Islaam (OT and NT), that a rape victim should be put to death (OT), , etc.

Qur'an 2
Qur'an 2101 "And when there came to them a messenger from God, confirming what was with them, a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of God behind their backs, as if (it had been something) they did not know."

Qur'an 3187.And remember God took a covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made!

Qur'an 259.But the transgressors changed the word from that which had been given them; so We sent on the transgressors a plague from heaven, for that they infringed (Our command) repeatedly.

Qur'an 513-14"But because of their breach of Convenant.... they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds) for God loveth those who are kind. 14.From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a Covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will God715-A show them what it is they have done."

Those are some of the ayat from the Noble Qur'an telling you that Jews and Christians have changed, added to, hid, etc. the Word of God revealed to the earlier Prophets.

Amica

Also, the current Bible contains many contradictions. Do you still believe all of it is 100% true? If the free-minds.org purpose is to preach that Judaism and Christianity, along with the New and Old Testaments we have today, are 100% true, than everyone on this forum is misled!! Then, it is nothing but another of anti-islam movements attempting to divide and confuse Muslims even more. Nice job!

Producer, you are so stuck on the Bible and Qur'an, equating the current Bible with the Qur'an, that one cannot wonder who are you really Muslim or a Jew/Christian? Regardless who you are, I will respect you. But, please do not push me to provide you with arguments you cannot deal with (in order to prove to you that you are in the wrong if you think that today's Bible, both Testaments, are what Moses and Jesus pbut taught people).

You obviously did not read all of my posts on this forum, for if you did you would not write that I believe Bukhari as 'divine' written text or that I believe Hadiths 100%. But even if I did so believe, there is plenty of evidence from the Holy Qur'an to show you that the Bible we have today is not Torah, Injeel, the Book of Abraham nor the Zabur of David. Nor is it any of the revelations/writings from other Prophets (Isaac, Jacob, etc).

Producer

before that, lets solve this very Simple matter;

this verse;

Bible 11
God created the heavens and the earth.

is it true?

Disclaimer Agreeing just Bible 11 is true, do not imply the whole Bible is true. Agreeing Bible 11 is true is only for Bible 11, and cannot be use to Describe the Whole Bible.

Thus Do you agree Bible 11 is true or not?

Disclaimer your agreement cannot be use to describe the whole bible.

You have to understand, if you Consider Bible 11 is True, It is a Threat to Sunni Muslims. Corrupt Bible Verse, do not forbid Obeying Truthful Bible Verse.

The Verse from Quran, you've generously provide only Forbid Corrupt Bible Verse. But if Bible 11 is True, Christians can use it as Proof, Muslim must Obey "Truthful" Bible Verses.

Which Action shall we take to Defend Islam and Defeat the Christians?
(1) Bible 11 is False/Corrupt
Forbid Following the Whole Bible including Bible 11. Corruption must not be Follow

(2) Bible 11 is true
There is True and Corrupt Verses of Bible, and there should be a Science that Discern/Identity which is true and which is Corrupt. The Truth must be Follow.

or Are you proposing Muslim to follow "Quran Alone" and Reject Sahih Hadith Bukhari?

We must Solve this Problem Now, before millions of Muslims Converted into Christianity!

Amica

The Holy Qur'an has over 200 verses that correct the biblical ones. I do not need to look into the Bible, although I respect it and believe that Allah SWT sent Revelations to Jews and Christians, in order to be a Muslim. All that I need to believe is in the Noble Qur'an. At least for me. Hadiths, like I said once before, are not all evil. Muslims need revision of hadiths not elimination of them. Hadiths are a history document. And some of them are in accordance with the Noble Qur'an.

The radical populations of Muslim Ummah follow the many horrible biblical teachings (the teachings that I mentioned), and which are served to them as "hadiths" of Prophet pbuh and his companions. Therefore, Muslims engage in behaviors that are not islamic, but rather biblical

"honor" killings found in the Bible, no where in the Qur'an.
"suicide bombers" the first suicide killer documented was biblical Samson. The bible said that this man killed more of his enemies at the time of his death than he killed in his lifetime.
murder of atheists found in the Bible. The Qur'an is specific that there is no compulsion in religion, except when Muslims are attacked first for their Islam.
no tolerance of other religions/non-believers and racism found in the Bible, not the Qur'an.
marrying children the Old Testament we have today actually has a verse saying one can have sexual relations with a 3 year old
and many others.

Producer, I think you have problem understanding English. One cannot state that all of the Bible is either true or false (unless one is Christian or a Jew). But as a Muslim you can state not all of the Bible we have is true, as the Qur'an teaches.

Wasalaam.

Producer

The Holy Qur'an has over 200 verses that correct the biblical ones. I do not need to look into the Bible

Quran 61
praise is to Allah , who created the heavens and the earth

Bible 11
God created the heavens and the earth.

Amica, do you not See that Mind Trick?! Follow Quran 61, Muslims Automatically Follow Bible 11 ?!

Muslim Follow Quran 61, but Reject Bible 11, many Muslim sees that as Illogical!
Following Quran 61, is Like Following Bible 11?! How do you Refute that?!

How do You not Follow Bible 11 while we Follow Quran 61

God created the heavens and the earth, that's true but, that's making Bible 11 true! and Quran 61 is saying the same thing, and We Muslim Follow Quran 61 and that make Muslim follow Bible 11?

Not Follow Bible 11 is like Not Follow Quran 61 ?! Do you not see the Mind Trick?

Amica we need to defeat that Mind Trick! Which ones should we decide?

(1) Bible 11 is true
There is True and Corrupt Verses of Bible. We Follow Quran 61, an automatically Follow Bible 11. But That Does NOT mean Muslim follow the whole Bible.

(2) Bible 11 is False/Corrupt
Forbid Following the Whole Bible including Bible 11. Corruption must not be Follow

Amica which one? (1) or (2) ?!

Tyler_Durden

Hey producer,

First I'd like to say sorry for my previous post. It was rude and I have no right to tell you what to discuss. MY apologies brother peace

However, I have to say that I'm with Amica on this one. I think you logic is flawed.

Muslim Follow Quran 61, but Reject Bible 11, many Muslim sees that as Illogical!
Following Quran 61, is Like Following Bible 11?! How do you Refute that?!

How do You not Follow Bible 11 while we Follow Quran 61

God created the heavens and the earth, that's true but, that's making Bible 11 true! and Quran 61 is saying the same thing, and We Muslim Follow Quran 61 and that make Muslim follow Bible 11?

Not Follow Bible 11 is like Not Follow Quran 61 ?! Do you not see the Mind Trick?

Amica we need to defeat that Mind Trick! Which ones should we decide?

(1) Bible 11 is true
There is True and Corrupt Verses of Bible. We Follow Quran 61, an automatically Follow Bible 11. But That Does NOT mean Muslim follow the whole Bible.

(2) Bible 11 is False/Corrupt
Forbid Following the Whole Bible including Bible 11. Corruption must not be Follow

Amica which one? (1) or (2) ?!

This is not logical. If one verse of the Bible correlates with one verse of the Bible, then we must follow the entire Bible? Erm... Allah has written in the Qur'an that the Bible is corrupt. Sure some verses correlate, just like some hadith correlate with the Qur'an. But does this mean that we should follow hadith? Absolutely not. It is patchy reasoning.

I don't really see where you are coming from with this, producer, please answer the questions I have asked.

Thanks,

Ty

Producer

Hey producer,

First I'd like to say sorry for my previous post. It was rude and I have no right to tell you what to discuss. MY apologies brother peace

However, I have to say that I'm with Amica on this one. I think you logic is flawed.

This is not logical. If one verse of the Bible correlates with one verse of the Bible, then we must follow the entire Bible? Erm... Allah has written in the Qur'an that the Bible is corrupt. Sure some verses correlate, just like some hadith correlate with the Qur'an. But does this mean that we should follow hadith? Absolutely not. It is patchy reasoning.

I don't really see where you are coming from with this, producer, please answer the questions I have asked.

Thanks,

Ty

Just a Verse from Bible, Bible 11, even if its true, are not Proof, the rest is free from Corruption.

Amica, Do you see How, the Christians use;

Follow Quran 61, automatically Follow Bible 11 ?!

Amica what is the Solution for that?

Amica

I already answered you, Producer. When Christians use your logic, they would like to say that if you find one true verse in the Bible, then the whole Bible is true. But Qur'an does not say that. What Qur'an says is this

Allah SWT sent Revelations to the House of Israel.
Some among the Jews and Christians have forgotten and rewrote some of the Revelations, using something that is of little worth.
But, in all they have there is some truth in it.
That which correlates with the Last Revelation (Qur'an) is true and Qur'an states that it confirms those.
That which is false, Qur'an refutes (such as 'divine sonship' of Jesus, crucifixion of Jesus, trinity, etc.).

And those are my final answers. I say the same thing to Christians who wish to debate such with me, keeping in mind that no matter how my arguments make sense they will still believe what they want.

Tyler gave similar example with hadiths, although I do not agree with the fact that even when a hadith correlates with the Holy Qur'an that people must not follow it. I just think that hadiths we have need serious revisions, drastic reform, etc. And people need to understand that Hadiths are not divine source. The only Divine Word we have is Holy Qur'an. Hadith Qudsi are beautiful, but I feel if they were Divine in origin, they would be in the Noble Qur'an. Hadith writers invented Hadith Qudsi to force the masses to not object to any of the hadiths.

Producer

so, this is true? ;

God created the heavens and the earth.

just say (Yes) or (No).