My PERSONAL conclusions about salaat (contact prayer)

Man_of_Faith

Peace Aamer,

You are right. There has only been one religion all along, which is islam which is in return not a label but a definition for total submission to God alone. Tightly connoted with peace it means to bring a balance to your soul, much like the struggle is in the Star Wars motion picture. A result of submission to God will eventually be this state of being. I am not joking when I say you can feel high on the flow of the Holy Spirit in your soul.

Some people who research on the Bible have found (might be an unreliable source though) that the word muslim exists in the discourse, but it is obviously hidden by Christian scholars and because people read the Bible in English or their respective languages and not in the original Greek or Hebrew they are unaware of this.

Apart from this unreliable information you can clearly see that Jesus taught islam if you read the Gospel testimonials. There is no denying to that.

Islam has become associated with something of a label of Arabic lunatics who run around with AK-47's yelling 'Allahu Akhbar' and with millitary style discipline in its practice and weird teachings with lots of strange prohibitions and extra practices. It is clearly a very unfriendly religion which sadly bears the title of God's definition on how to leave yourself in God's hands in islam. Muslim and all that has nothing to do with this man-made religion. This religion is based on hadith more than what the Quran teaches. This religion makes people aggressive and intolerant and bla bla (sorry you know the usual badness of this sectarian behavior).

When the Prophets and Messengers referred to their religion they said they followed the religion of their (righteous) ancestors and not by any name but by the practice of total submission to God alone (islam), i.e they were muslims for one who practices islam is a muslim. We are muslims. We cannot escape from this definition. However, I would gladly find an English definition which does not sound awkward, for peacemaker sounds lame and submitter not accurate enough.

Note I know I have tried to change away from the use of the word submission because I think it still is a poor translation of the word islam, but there is no other good choice unfortunately. Islam is submission to God, but it means more than that. It is highly related to the greeting in islam which is salaam which means something like 'Peace' as we already know. This is why some people come up with the alternative English definitions for islam such as peacemaking and its practitioners peacemakers, but this is also not entirely accurate. But as far as I can tell the goal in islam is to bring a balance to your soul by submission to God, which is the combination of the words peace and submission together which can be derived from the Arabic word islam. The ultimate long-term goal in islam is just peace within your soul and it starts with submission to God alone. But so far I rather use the word islam to refer to my religion rather than submission or peacemaking.

When talking in depth about the mechanics of islam you can get really deep because it is a really really abstract topic.

God bless you

Peace GODsubmitter,

I am sorry for discussing things for which your thread is not dedicated.

You saw my elaboration on salat in the other thread and this how I perceive the prayer to be like. Salat needs to be separated from some robot-like practice and take it for the contact/connection to the God as it stands for. Simply thinking about God, talking and focusing on Him is salat. Ritual-like situations are to help us concentrate and have a dedicated moment for the Lord, as which may not be as serious when we simply call on His name 'on-the-fly' throughout the day. This is why God refers to specifically named prayers at dawn and night plus in the day as a middle prayer because He wishes us to spare a moment or two in remembrance when we forget our daily worries and focus on Him solely. Like I said in the other thread; there are an infinite number of prayers but a minimum of three, and God would not speak in riddles on such an important topic.

The Quran is easy and should be regarded as such, although we only need to guard our minds from conjecture and wishful thinking. Our worst problem is that we start to invent conclusions clouding the Truth such as erasing the Prophet of the Quran entirely as if he never existed and the likes. It is good however that we exposed the misinterpretation of 434 and many others verses, since God would not advocate sin. My only question now which annoys me is God's alleged positive attitude towards slavery according to traditional interpretation as you can read in a recent thread which I participate in. Never in my life I can think God would support slavery as part of His system.

God bless you

GODsubmitter

Thank you for your answers gentlemen.

But I would like to get more information about this prayer HA PATCHAH from Judaism, and to know whether it existed before the Sura al-Fatiha, since it would be interesting to discover if it was the material and inspiration for the first Sura, because it is (almost) identical!

What is the origin of "Ha Patchah"?
How did it develop? Was it before or after the Qur'an?

The answers would be extremely valuable.

Peace

tauhid101

Peace be within you, GODsubmitter

The first Sura Al-Fatiha is recited in the Salat.

I suddenly found this, and I was both perplexed and intrigued because, long ago, I formed an opinion that everything, if not all, comes from Judaism, both in Xtianity and Islam. Now this is another proof for that, apart from myriads of other proofs.

Here it is

HA PATCHAH
(THE OPENING PRAYER)

BE SHEM ELAH HA RAHAMIM
In the name of God, the Most Gracious (Ezr.51; Dan.99)
T?HILAH L?ELOHEINU RIBOHN HA-OLAMIM
All praise be to God, Lord of the universe (Jewish liturgy)
HA RAHAMIM
The Most Gracious (Dan.99)
MELEK YOM HA DIN
Master of the Day of Judgment (Jewish terminology)
ELEKHA ADONAY EQARA WE EL ADONAY ET HANAN
To you, O Lord, I implore ? and to my Lord I seek help (Psalm 309)
HEHENI BE ORACH MISHOR
Guide us in the straight path (Psalm 2711)
ALEKHET BE DEREHU WE LEYAREH ITTO
The way of life according to His path by reverencing Him (Deut 86)
LE HALAK BE ETSAH RISHAH WE LA SAGHAH
Not by the advice of the cursed, nor of the strayers (Psalm 11921)

So, it is both phonetically and as a meaning same as Fatiha!

Now, what is the origin of "Ha Patchah"?
How did it develop? Was it before or after the Qur'an?

The answers would be extremely valuable.
Thank you

peace

That is amazing indeed, where did you find them, if I may ask? Is the Ha Patchah in classical Hebrew from the Torah or the Talmud or other books? Was it in one chapter alone or was it compiled from the different verses which you indicate in brackets? Is it on-line? Sorry for the continuous questions, bro GODsubmitter ) This is also in line with my current personal study and research for the Truth.

Thank you for your answers gentlemen.

But I would like to get more information about this prayer HA PATCHAH from Judaism, and to know whether it existed before the Sura al-Fatiha, since it would be interesting to discover if it was the material and inspiration for the first Sura, because it is (almost) identical!

What is the origin of "Ha Patchah"?
How did it develop? Was it before or after the Qur'an?

The answers would be extremely valuable.

Peace

From my first impression is that they are identical, and there must be a whole Quran in Hebrew out there somewhere, hopefully not locked up in the Vatican vaults. Remember that before they became Arabs, they were Erebs first, the "mixed" group of people who were punished and cursed and prohibited from the holy land after the second destruction of the temple. God gave them the last chance of repentance (9 At-Taubah) when He appointed the last Prophet, from the unlettered people, to unite the Erebs and took back the holy land from the Romans. This is my on-going personal study and research of the Book of Truth about the journey of the last Prophet and I apologize because its out of your topic.

Peace and blessings be within you.

tauhid101

GODsubmitter

Peace be within you, GODsubmitter

That is amazing indeed, where did you find them, if I may ask? Is the Ha Patchah in classical Hebrew from the Torah or the Talmud or other books? Was it in one chapter alone or was it compiled from the different verses which you indicate in brackets? Is it on-line? Sorry for the continuous questions, bro GODsubmitter ) This is also in line with my current personal study and research for the Truth.

From my first impression is that they are identical, and there must be a whole Quran in Hebrew out there somewhere, hopefully not locked up in the Vatican vaults. Remember that before they became Arabs, they were Erebs first, the "mixed" group of people who were punished and cursed and prohibited from the holy land after the second destruction of the temple. God gave them the last chance of repentance (9 At-Taubah) when He appointed the last Prophet, from the unlettered people, to unite the Erebs and took back the holy land from the Romans. This is my on-going personal study and research of the Book of Truth about the journey of the last Prophet and I apologize because its out of your topic.

Peace and blessings be within you.

tauhid101

Thank you so very much @tauhid101 for your answer.

I've found this prayer, as it is, already assembled, somewhere on the net, but cannot remember which site, if I find it again I shall post it here. There are some translations of the Qur'an in Hebrew online, but I suppose you are not interested in them.

I am very much interested in the same research you are doing, and I would be very grateful if you would share some of your findings with me. Because, you see, I am also very much interested in finding the truth, lately discovering that almost everything, if not all, comes from Judaism, even the most controversial issue like Gnosticism has its beginnings in Jewish tradition, can you imagine?

What you wrote about the Erabs is hugely fascinating for me, because I didn't know those things, and it is so interesting that they were banned from entering the Holy Land... Thank you for sharing it.

So, hopefully, someone will enlighten us more about this HA PATCHA prayer which, even in its name sounds like fatiha - pat'ha

Peace

tauhid101

Peace be within you, GODsubmitter

I did find the translation into Hebrew on-line after reading your post, but not Romanize and no translation into English, only into Arabic, and it's a Ahmadiyya sect website. They have only partially translated Al-Fatihah, Al-Baqarah and Al-Imraan into Hebrew. And find some news too, from 2007, that the King Fahd Printing Complex was going to do a translation project of the Quran into Hebrew within a year. Now its already 2013, I guess they abandoned the project.

I'm a non-Arab and zero knowledge of the Arabic and the Hebrew alphabets, but I do find that the alphabets are mostly the same. From my personal study and research, I find that Arabic evolved from the Hebrew language and letters. I hope you find this link interesting

http//www.ancient-hebrew.org/28_chart.html

What is interesting to me, the meaning of the word "Hebrew" itself; it has the same meaning in Arabic and Hebrew, with the same root words. And also I find that Hebrew is the only language from our Lord which had been suppressed and distorted. Today Hebrew is heavily influenced from European languages. Even all the prophets are potrayed with European and blonde looks, especially Prophet Isa.

The word "Hebrew" in Hebrew
AYIN-BET-RESH-YOD that which passes further; on the other side; a passing over; a going beyond; ultra-mundane; beyond the terrestrial; not of this world; hidden from sense; occult.

The word "Hebrew" in Arabic
AYN-BA-RA to cross, interpret, state clearly, pass over. i'tabara - to consider, ponder over, take into account, get experience from, take warming. abratun (pl. i'bar) - regard/consideration, admonition, warning, example, instructive warning. aabir (pl. aabiriina) - one who passes over. i'tabara - to take warning, learn a lesson.

Most sayings (doctrines) of men interpret it as the exodus, the passing over from the tyranny of the Pharaoh, the time when the Angels put the mark of the cross on the door and the unleavened bread, the Seder or the Passover, a special date for both Judaism and Christianity. And some interpret it as the crossing over of Abraham of the river Euphrates.

But to my understanding, it was our Lord who called it Hebrew, and it was all about His words and Messages, so the meaning of the word "Hebrew" is the passing over from being unlettered into lettered. Moses was from the unlettered people until God taught him the Hebrew letters on Mount Sinai where he received the written Ten Commandments and the Torah. I acknowledge and accept that Hebrew meant the "passing over" from hieroglyphs, signs and symbols, to the letters we know today. Look again at the ancient-Hebrew writings, from hieroglyphs into letters. Another thing to ponder for those of us who believed in the existence of the Ark of the Covenant and that it will be revealed in the future; in what language will all the tablets and scrolls within the Ark be written in?

It has been kept hidden from the 12 tribes, the Children of Israel/ the Erebs for thousand of years. I don't think it will be in Arabic, Greek, Latin nor English.

Today, God taught all mankind the letters in whatever language and race, and His Books had been translated into many languages. And in this forum itself we can communicate with each other in one written language only, English. I, myself, started the journey reading, studying and reflecting the Book which was translated into Indonesian Malay. Then I "pass over" to the English translated Book when I found free-minds.org in 1995 and the studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline, the best tool for translations, IMO. I believe that we (God aloners/ Truth seekers everywhere) are all chosen to be the next guided people from around the world, but whether each of us respond to our Lord and serve Him alone, and follow His Straight Path and the Way of the All-Mighty, is another matter.

From the Book of Truth (the Quran), our Lord keep reminding us about/with His Words and His Wills. He alone has the Power and Authority to "write" the shahadah/ testimony of the Truth into our heart, to send down the spirit of Truth/ the faith/ the iman, the light of Truth, the living words of our Lord within our heart.

I would like to share with you or with anyone whatever Truth that our Lord has taught and showed me. Just post it here or PM me. )

Peace and blessings be within you.
tauhid101

Zulf

I'm a non-Arab and zero knowledge of the Arabic and the Hebrew alphabets, but I do find that the alphabets are mostly the same. From my personal study and research, I find that Arabic evolved from the Hebrew language and letters. I hope you find this link interesting

http//www.ancient-hebrew.org/28_chart.html

What is interesting to me, the meaning of the word "Hebrew" itself; it has the same meaning in Arabic and Hebrew, with the same root words. And also I find that Hebrew is the only language from our Lord which had been suppressed and distorted. Today Hebrew is heavily influenced from European languages. Even all the prophets are potrayed with European and blonde looks, especially Prophet Isa.

The word "Hebrew" in Hebrew
AYIN-BET-RESH-YOD that which passes further; on the other side; a passing over; a going beyond; ultra-mundane; beyond the terrestrial; not of this world; hidden from sense; occult.

The word "Hebrew" in Arabic
AYN-BA-RA to cross, interpret, state clearly, pass over. i'tabara - to consider, ponder over, take into account, get experience from, take warming. abratun (pl. i'bar) - regard/consideration, admonition, warning, example, instructive warning. aabir (pl. aabiriina) - one who passes over. i'tabara - to take warning, learn a lesson.

Most sayings (doctrines) of men interpret it as the exodus, the passing over from the tyranny of the Pharaoh, the time when the Angels put the mark of the cross on the door and the unleavened bread, the Seder or the Passover, a special date for both Judaism and Christianity. And some interpret it as the crossing over of Abraham of the river Euphrates.

But to my understanding, it was our Lord who called it Hebrew, and it was all about His words and Messages, so the meaning of the word "Hebrew" is the passing over from being unlettered into lettered. Moses was from the unlettered people until God taught him the Hebrew letters on Mount Sinai where he received the written Ten Commandments and the Torah. I acknowledge and accept that Hebrew meant the "passing over" from hieroglyphs, signs and symbols, to the letters we know today. Look again at the ancient-Hebrew writings, from hieroglyphs into letters. Another thing to ponder for those of us who believed in the existence of the Ark of the Covenant and that it will be revealed in the future; in what language will all the tablets and scrolls within the Ark be written in?

It has been kept hidden from the 12 tribes, the Children of Israel/ the Erebs for thousand of years. I don't think it will be in Arabic, Greek, Latin nor English.

Salam tauhid101,

You might find very interesting the first or second e-book available through br. Pazuzu. There you will read some very rare stuff about languages and geography that I consider a must read!
Peace!

GODsubmitter

Thank you @tauhid101 for your kind answer and important thoughts.
I must say with all my humility, that I've came to the very same conclusions as yourself, and I am absolutely convinced that the Hebrew is the holy language, and that the Arabic evolved from it, not the other way round as some might point out.

I also consider the Qur'an to be a reminder for people, of something already revealed in Torah which mankind somehow achieved to corrupt to a certain point, so the Qur'an came sealed and protected with the number 19 code, just to bring again the main points and the main message.

Thank you @Zulf for your reply, I've studied some of Pazuzu's views and I find them rather interesting, although in some conclusions too far-fetched and too strange.

Hoping to have more information about this HA PATCHA prayer...

Peace

hawk99

Peace,

HA PATCHAH (THE OPENING PRAYER)

BE SHEM ELAH HA RAHAMIM In the name of God, the Most Gracious (Ezr.51; Dan.99)

T?HILAH L?ELOHEINU RIBOHN HA-OLAMIM All praise be to God, Lord of the universe (Jewish liturgy)

HA RAHAMIM The Most Gracious (Dan.99)

MELEK YOM HA DIN Master of the Day of Judgment (Jewish terminology)

ELEKHA ADONAY EQARA WE EL ADONAY ET HANAN To you, O Lord, I implore ? and to my Lord I seek help (Psalm 309)

HEHENI BE ORACH MISHOR Guide us in the straight path (Psalm 2711)

ALEKHET BE DEREHU WE LEYAREH ITTO The way of life according to His path by reverencing Him (Deut 86)

LE HALAK BE ETSAH RISHAH WE LA SAGHAH Not by the advice of the cursed, nor of the strayers (Psalm 11921)

The HA PATCHAH appears to be a compilation of verses from different parts of the bible
put together recently by person/persons unknown and not an intact prayer like the lords
prayer. Who compiled the Ha patchah I do not know, my guess would be Indonesian.
Many Jewish prayers are listed below at the link below, maybe I missed it.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_prayers#Upon_waking_up

God bless

peace

GODsubmitter

The HA PATCHAH appears to be a compilation of verses from different parts of the bible
put together recently by person/persons unknown and not an intact prayer like the lords
prayer. Who compiled the Ha patchah I do not know, my guess would be Indonesian.
Many Jewish prayers are listed below at the link below, maybe I missed it.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_prayers#Upon_waking_up

God bless

peace

Thank you for your interest, and your input although somewhat unsatisfactory.
Although information on internet can be misleading sometimes, I was just wondering whether HA PACTHAH prayer was a Jewish prayer long before the Qur'an was revealed, and to do that, I think one must go beyond Wikipedia as a source of knowledge.

With all respect, thank you.

Peace

tauhid101

Peace be within you, GODsubmitter

Although information on internet can be misleading sometimes, I was just wondering whether HA PACTHAH prayer was a Jewish prayer long before the Qur'an was revealed, and to do that, I think one must go beyond Wikipedia as a source of knowledge.

In blue, you are right, brother. There is always the Mother/ Source of all His Books, the Al-Kitab, with Him besides His Throne.

Who compiled the Ha patchah I do not know, my guess would be Indonesian.
Many Jewish prayers are listed below at the link below, maybe I missed it.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_prayers#Upon_waking_up

God bless

peace

Thanks for the link, hawk99. But that is a very wild guess, brother ;D

2547 And He is the One Who made for you the night a covering and the sleep a rest and made the day a resurrection.

3023 And among His Signs is your sleep by night and the day your seeking of His Bounty. Indeed, in that surely are Signs for a people who listen.

3942 Allah takes the soul at the time of their death, and the one who does not die in their sleep. Then He keeps the one whom He has decreed for them the death, and sends the others for a term specified. Indeed, in that surely are Signs for a people who reflect.

788 And We created you in pairs,
789 And made your sleep for rest,

From the above verses, Allah made the sleep for our rest, and take us and guard us during our sleep; so I think it would not hurt anyone if they offer prayer of appreciation to our Lord when they woke up. Just saying gratefulness to our Lord is a righteous deed. A deed the size of a small seed is very much appreciated by our Lord. To be honest, I did it every time I woke up in the morning too, in my own words.

Thanks @Zulf for the suggestion. My opinions of Pazuzu's articles is the same with GODsubmitter, too far-fetched. I prefer to remain within the Books of our Lord under His Guidance only.

Peace be within everyone.
tauhid101

hawk99

Peace Godsubmitter,

I made some calls to Jewish organizations and I also emailed an institution, I could not find
your prayer.

This is the email I received.

Hi Amin,

I do not believe there is such a Jewish prayer.

All the best,

Rabbi Eliezer Zalmanov
for Chabad.org

What?s APPening at Chabad.org? Check out our newest apps, available for iPhone and Android devices

Jewish.tv Video App http//www.chabad.org/2190115

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Please help us continue providing this service. Thank you.

Donate Online
http//www.chabad.org/supportatr

On Tuesday, July 30, 2013 you wrote

Peace I am muslim, recently my friend has been trying to find a prayer
called "Ha Patchah" that is similar to the Al Fatihah, is their such a
prayer, please let me know.

==============================================================
Date Initiated 7/30/2013 53324 PM
Category Feedback Layer Idea
Name Amin abdullah

==============================================================

GODsubmitter

Thank you @tauhid101 for your reply,
and
thank you @hawk99 for your effort and inquiry, but I think chabad.org might not have an answer neither, it's just another cult (or sect) within the Jewish world (although a very interesting one ), same as there are many in Xtianity or Islam.
And, by the way, it is not "my" prayer , I just found it published somewhere in the internet.

God might bless you all

hawk99

And, by the way, it is not "my" prayer ) , I just found it published somewhere in the internet.
God might bless you all

Peace GODsubmitter,

Excuse the typo (your prayer)

Good luck in your endeavors. handshake

Have a blessed Ramadan

GODsubmitter

Is the number of salaat prayers 5 or 3

(From the book "The Quran Numerical Coding of the Salaat Prayers" by E. BOUQDIB, ( 2007), The English version is finished and will be soon available here for download).

There is now in the Internet a lot of deceiving web pages pretending to follow only the Quran and declaring that God mentioned only 3 Prayers by name Fajr prayer, middle prayer and Night prayer. The people are pretending they want to follow only the Quran and start shortening their Prayers first! One might think that since God repeatedly reminds us to always remember him, they would have gone in the opposite direction and even started doing more, but no! They start by shortening first! They even come up with the Verses where God inspires Mohamed to follow the religion of Abraham, which implies that Prayers were already known and decide that the Quran has to name it all again for them, something that goes against their own logic! But what about the Verse stating people could not do contact prayer anymore because they lost them (1959)? Why did they lose them is clear, God preferred to test the human chains of transmission and if a link is broken, the next generation loses salaat prayer. How many cultures, languages and dialects have disappeared completely? Have a look at the list here. If God?s decision was that prayers practice shall be transmitted only from believer to believer as we have seen by analysing Verse 3117, then if among a group of people, believing and practicing prayers fades away, they will eventually loose that practice altogether. Generations afterwards, people have no archeological piece from which they can reconstitute the puzzle and speculators will start inventing rules. A living example is to compare how the Jewish, Christians and Muslims pray; it looks as if it did not come from the same source (God). We are lucky that the Quran describes in many Verses different stages of Prayer which are identical to how we pray, and can then measure how far away Jews and Christians diverged from the practices of Abraham (1959).

God addressed directly in the Quran only one prayer the middle prayer and He did not even name it or ?precise anything? (in the linguistic dimension) about its name

( (9) (223

Guard strictly your prayers, and the Middle Prayer; and stand before God in a devote (frame of mind).

The other two prayer names mentioned fall in a Verse (245 that ?has nothing to do with prayers?, (context, linguistically). If we follow only the naming or their repetitions then we should do 67 or 68 prayers per day, not 5 that a true believer does, and not 3, as they now pretend, since the word Salaat is repeated 67 times! (Every 10 minutes the whole day!) Their argumentation is ?God said follow only Quran and in Quran we find only 2 names for prayers, and there must be another one because God talks about a middle one! So naive but that is the logic they use!

Verse 2238 points to 5 prayers

If we have the basics of the Arabic Grammar and read carefully Verse 2238 we would understand in that Verse that mentions the middle prayer (223 that there must be more than 4 prayers and less than 6! Yes I am not kidding! I am making it even a duty to present a qualitative and quantitative analysis so that no doubt about it will remain

By analysing systematically that Verse we note that it has two key words that define, limit and quantify all our prayers! If we also put in front of us Verse 11114 and Verse 1778, we will arrive without the slightest doubt to 5 prayers. The first word is Al-salawati which is ?the prayers? in Arabic and the second is the word ?middle?.
1.First we have to clear one point that has to do with simple logic. If you have many groups of children and I tell you to take care of ?that group children? you have no way of knowing which group of children I mean if you did not see to which group I pointed, but if I tell you to take care of ?that group of children and particularly Mary?, then you know which group of children I mean, because I named one who belongs to a particular group and therefore no further information is necessary. In the Verse 2238, God pointed to the middle prayer and therefore what is immediately meant are the prayers of a day, because if it was generally ?ALL PRAYERS? then there would be no middle. Therefore the plural Al-Salawat that precedes indicates the others prayers of the day. It is a plural but it points ONLY to the prayers of one day, not any prayers. We know that the book of God is absolutely logical in its declarations and numbering as is stated in Verses 839 and 8320.
2. In Arabic there are two kinds of plurals, the plural for ONLY 2 and the plural for 3 or more (see http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_grammar). The plural for two in our case would be Salaateini not Salawati! Now if the Verse says Salawati and middle Salaat, the logic of Arabic grammar already points to

(3 or more)+(1) = (4 or more)

If there were only 3 Prayers God would have said

Observe the ?Salaateini?, and the middle Salaat, and devote yourselves totally to GOD

This would equate to 3 the number of our prayers, if there were ONLY 3 prayers Salaateini means 2, to which we add the middle Salaat and we get the total of 3, which is not the case.
3. Now let us see the mathematical consequences of the use of the word middle. If you have a sequence of numbers, you CAN NOT TALK about the middle one, unless there is an ODD number of items, 2 is the middle number of the sequence (1, 2, 3), 3 is the middle number of the sequence (1, 2, 3, 4, 5). In other words, the word middle already defines that the total number of Prayers is an odd number! Now we have seen that grammatically-speaking there must be 4 or more, but 4 is even and has no middle number and jumping to six we see that it is also without a middle number, hence the only mathematical possibility left is 5. So we have now proved from only that one Verse that there are 5 prayers. We could already stop here, but some might come and say eh! why not 7 or 9! Just for the sake of trying to inject confusion, even though they will stick to their 3 prayers!

To make it conclusive, let us see what the other two Verses, which specify some prayers say, Verse defines 3 prayers

(11114)

You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salaat) at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed.

Since Prayers time is valid in the interval between two points or times, we see here 3 prayers, the prayer at the first extremity of the day which is Fajr and the prayer of the second extremity of the day, which must be Maghrib and not Isha. This is because in the same Verse and immediately afterwards, God wipes out the possibility of even considering it by adding the prayer of the night, which is Isha (and during the night). There is only one prayer that must be performed during the night when it is dark and it is ISHA. Now we end up with a new prayer as follows

1

2

3

4

5

Fajr

Noon

Middle

Maghrib

Isha

Further, there are two Verses defining the Noon prayer, Verse 629 dealing with Friday prayer at noon practiced by all nations since the advent of Islam, and Verse 1778 that says

(177

You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salaat) when the sun declines from its highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.

So we add the Noon prayer

1

2

3

4

5

Fajr

Noon

Middle

Maghrib

Isha

We said that the possibilities are 5, 7 or 9. Now we see that we can forget about 7 and 9, because we end up only with 4 to which we add now the middle prayer and that bring the total to 5 prayers per day

1

2

3

4

5

Fajr

Noon

Middle

Maghrib

Isha

By reading the Verse of the middle prayer we should ask ourselves why the Almighty marked or endorsed the middle prayer with a mathematical quality but did not name it! In our book ?The quran mathematical code for daily prayers and prostrations? we discover that He meant by the word middle something far reaching, not only the middle prayer?

SOURCE
http//www.realquran.net/quran-articles/6-religious-questions/2-is-the-number-of-salaat-prayers-5-or-3

By the way, it is a very interesting site, with some articles, and a book "UNLOCKING THE QURAN CODE" http//realquran.net/
It is very extensive and makes it difficult to ignore mathematical implications. )

Peace

good_logic

Peace Godsubmitter.

Thank you for your post.

I will be discussing various topics in the " messengers" thread,God wiling.

One of the reasons God sends a clarifying messenger is the circular arguments that go on.Each inventing their own "deen" and claiming it is from "Qoran".

Following the messenger is endorsed/authorised by God.
Following others without authority from God is setting up partners with God.

5 salat it is,for me too.

Peace to you.

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

Five prayers you say? I could not find evidence of that in Qur'an unfortunately and I found signs that the Asr and Maghrib prayers were a personal preference of Muhammad.

My personal understanding is that the dawn and dusk prayers are fixing points but then there are middle prayers which are according to one's own schedule, whereas the afternoon prayer was Muhammad's choice. God said to have regular Salat and it the only clear advice from God I could discover about daily prayers so I see the dawn and dusk as the only really determined ones because it is beginning respective end of the day.

Apart from during the day and at the ends of the day there are moments of prayer in the night and where God seems to expect that we spend time in meditation/Salat over a longer duration. Merely thinking about creation, God's marvels and perhaps reading the Qur'an can be regarded as "meditation". Prayer in the night is not just a few minutes and then off to sleep but a longer concentration on the topic of God. God pulled this activity into the night because he understands that we need the day for other activities for our survival, but using the mind you can certainly see that if you have the luxury of having time in the day you can put this activity into the day. Life is much easier these days than over 1400 years ago. So if you have time then put this activity here. Maybe reignite the concept of the Sabbath and keep a whole day for God in the weekends? The more you do for God instead of for your wealth and other temporary gains, the more you show God that you are mindful of Him and purify yourself. Of course helping your relatives, speaking about God and singing praises of the Lord together is a good substitute for "salat". When you do these things God would (allegorically) get a smile on His face. God loves when we show love for the creation. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

For me, Salat is not prayer in traditional regards, but more moments to be particularly mindful of God as in focusing extra much. Maybe talk freely with God and offering a psalm or supplication for Him. Personally I parrot the Qur'an prayer and the Jesus' prayer of the Gospel as a supplication every time and then ramble on about my problems and wishes and perhaps thanking Him in customized ways. I see Salat as connecting to God through channeled efforts of mind-work.

So in my understanding there are no 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 etc prayers in the day but an infinite number and oneself is only the limiting factor although God gives reference to prayers when we wake up and at night, i.e. when we get up and when we are about to go to sleep. Since I believe the tales of old in the Bible for example to be true and thus that Jesus and other characters prayed during daylight I have faith that prayers is something God expects to come naturally from our part and that we connect with Him frequently during the day. Whenever we have a wish for something in the day to happen or not happen then we perform Salat, or if we simply miss our Master. If you offer only two prayers in the day is that not sounding a bit meager to you? Well, actually offer is not the right choice since God, from an accountant point of view has absolutely no need for your prayer but yourself. But if you are a friend of God of course God will like the devotion and that you are mindful of Him.

Other than that as I have rambled on before is that we should always live in a state of prayer and purify ourselves. We should perform constant salat and zakat. Be mindful of God and purify yourselves.

And in a rough world like this it can be more shielded and possible to concentrate if you pray and concentrate on your salat in solitude and it can be nice for God to see that you do not only do it to be shown among men. We are not "religious" to impress on others that we are better humans but to show our gratitude to the Lord and seek His counsel, and Nearness and Guidance. However, if you have a group of Believers/Muslims who have the same mind as you then pray in solitude with them, it might be a bonus that one is able to unite under God's creed. A brotherhood (or sisterhood) of friends together, is that not a lovely sight?

Personally I substitute some moments of prayers with service of God to help others instead and I connect to God thrice during the day; dawn and dusk, and at one occasion during the day, apart from the Salat I do when I talk to God on-the-fly during the day when I need something done. In the night I follow the whole chapter which talks about devotion in the darkness of the night. I have plans to reestablish additional prayers/moments of exclusive connection to God throughout the day, but right now this suffices me. I feel almost psychotic with energy of God residing in me as it is, so it is enough. Hehe, do not worry it is not as bad as it sounds, I was only trying to describe the explosive feeling I have within me. It is a difference between feeling this with a Shaytaanic control and one as a blessing of God. Everyone is mad in its own right, but it all about what "right" is.

God bless you

good_logic

Peace man of faith.

I follow the latest messenger. My study of Qoran does not contradict his view.

You can do as much or as little as you want. I am only responsible for me.

The connection/ intention/submission to God is more important I agree.. What is in the heart God sees.What we do can mean nothing if the devotion /loyalty to God is not there.

God bless you.
Peace.

Man_of_Faith

Salaam good logic,

Yes. You are responsible over your own deeds, I just wanted to give my own understanding of this. I suppose you mean you follow Dr. Khalifa's preachings?

God bless you

good_logic

Peace man of faith.

Yes I do.

I am sure you are familiar with the circular debates/arguments that are going on in here and all over the internet/forms/....

Rituals/ no rituals... o salat, 2 salat, 3.5... fast/ do not fast...Zakat/ no zakat... and on ... and on.. they go ...

God sent his scriptures and reminds with messengers. ( See " O children of Adam! When messengers come to you,)

We think we are so clever, but satan is cleverer! Our ego and arrogance is easy prey for satan!

Following God and His messenger is upholding the authority of God. Following anyone else is setting up partners with God.

That is what I understand from my study of Bible and Qoran.

May the Lord guide us to His path

Peace to you.

GODsubmitter