My PERSONAL conclusions about salaat (contact prayer)
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Peace Godsubmitter.
Ditto
I am lucky enough in that I was never in any danger of idolizing Dr Khalifa, or adhering to the "cult" of submitters (if there is any as such), first, because I do not personally know or met anyone of that group, and secondly because I always regard my personal relationship with God as such PERSONAL!
I have no need, nor inclination, to belong to any human (organized-religious) group whatsoever!God's (purified) Scripture and God's guidance is enough for me.
I put myself completely and totally in God's "Hands" and at His Mercy.That makes two of us.
But I believe in God , His scriptures and His messengers.I have solid proof that God exists and has sent a message and messengers. From my study of Qoran, I believe RK was a messenger.
Peace to you.
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Yes @Man of Faith, thank you for your post, but I don't think it is interesting to write about our own personal opinions and rumblings as you say... you certainly know that there are a few enough women doing just that in this Forum, apart from some other members spamming and polluting with their utter nonsense...
It is better to present arguments, articles, or some other kind of proofs that we choose to confirm our conclusions.If I can remember well, you were also quite a strong advocate of 5 daily Salat - Contact prayers, and at this point I would just like to remind you of difference between Salat as a Contact prayer, and Dua - a normal prayer that can be done anytime...
As I am trying to really understand this Salat concept in the Qur'an, I tried all the possibilities doing it regularly, then abandoning it altogether, then doing it twice or 3 times a day etc, etc... and, I must conclude that in periods when I was not doing the pre-established Salat as a Contact prayer (or "ritual" as you call it) as taught by late Dr. Rashad Khalifa, PhD, there was always something missing in my life, and although nothing bad happened (because I think God is protecting me because He sees that I am adhering to Him as much as I can), I must confess that in those periods when I was not performing the 5 daily Contact prayers I was definitively lacking GRACE, or, GRACE was missing in my life somehow...
Perhaps it is just my own personal impression, but I think that there is definitely SOMETHING in that "ritual" and something important about it, and, allow me to remind you, that we both once agreed together, it cannot be a mere coincidence that it is preserved intact after so many centuries...
Now, of course one is free to abandon any precept, so much so as one is free not to believe in God, or, not to accept Dr. Rashad Khalifa PhD as a messenger of God...
Salaam GODsubmitter,
Well. I do not consider what I wrote to be just my personal opinions and I base them on my understanding of the scriptures as I read and interpret them as well as from inspiration. I know that man complicates things and I have understood that many things here are simply personal preferences and I am sure the "Sunnah" you know about Muhammad was his preference of devotion to God. It does not say that this "ritual" is anything wrong because I still perform in similar to this even as of today, but it was not a specific way that God meant "This is how you should do it!"
Regarding the amount of prayers it is my own understanding of Quran that lead me to believe that there is a prayer at both ends of the day, at night and then also prayers which you can observe during daylight. I promise you that I did not just run up with my own "opinions" (this word is so abused here), but rather meditated and sought counsel from God about it while analyzing the Message. I just do not buy the strict five prayer schedule and I think there has never been any absolute pattern like this.
Yes. I know we agreed that the ritual is preserved over many centuries but since then I have found it weird to have different rakat for every prayer and a robot-like pattern of expression. I still think that people in the past also bowed down and prostrated and you remember me saying that it is not necessarily from religion this move came from but rather a way of showing deep respect for someone. And I still prostrate physically in front of God and bow down, but for me the contents and connection to God has more meaning now after I focused on the actual "Salat" (mindfulness of God) concept.
My understanding does not need to erase prayers and I see you fear that I blot out prayers in traditional regard but I have not. It ought to be a misunderstanding because I seem lax in my approach, but I am even more serious in my devotion to God now.
I am not sure about Dr. Khalifa, if he is a Messenger or not. He came up with certain utterances which I had difficulties swallowing. But the original Message he started out with was righteous and he started a chain reaction after his appearance here on Earth which is good. We must not forget that the most important criteria in Islam is belief in God, His realm and living as good people. Khalifa told us to throw away all the hadith and this was a positive signal to the crowd. One is just fine with the Quran alone and had it not been for curiosity no other book would ever be needed, all the "religious" information is contained within.
I have begun to think that Rashad was a Messenger who went rogue but was actually on his mission during the time that he discovered the 19 phenomenon and his initial declarations of "religion". For the sake of it you can as well call him a Messenger as I doubt none of them were like a saint as in free from sin. No doubt Dr. Khalifa was a sign for mankind. I have no problems with people who see him as a Messenger when I think about it as long as they do not call him infallible or idolize him.
Muhammad was far from perfect and it just reflects the fallibility of us humans. It was only with God's help that Muhammad became a better person and so it might have been with Rashad Khalifa.
So brother GODsubmitter, I hope you were not offended by my previous post and hope you understand that I still perform Salat in a similar manner as before, but with the perception that Salat has a customizable pattern and that the more the merrier and that certain deeds can substitute the prayers too, but not replace them. The purpose of Salat is connection to God and heavy concentration is the best way to accomplish this. I have talked about staying in a "state of prayer" before and it is not particularly anything new from my part and it is my understanding of the verses with Salat and Zakat as of lately.
And the supplication (dua) I see as an integral part of Salat or you can perform one on-the-fly. One can get on ones knees at any one time if there is a need too.
I try not to hang on to the prayer-free Islam since that feels incompatible with Qur'an no matter how your twist and turn with it. There are a few late reformations which take place on here which I do not follow since I cannot make them add up.
You criticized me for utterances without ayats but I only expressed my views however if you read my lines I think you can together with Quran and God understand my philosophies anyway. I try only to speak from the Quranic passages spinning around in my head but in my own mind language. Trust me that I am a man of faith. Try read my latest posts again and you can see Islam in them with a new fresh spirit less contaminated with traditional understanding but still following its teachings. I still call it continuing where Rashad Khalifa started.
Without active prayers one feels bad, you are right about that and I keep the Salat at regular times per day, but I take it literally about "regular times" as often as you can. You remember I experimented with one prayer every three hours and that works too but right now I have some other goodly work going on.
I could spam the forum with lots of ayat but I think that is up to the reader themselves to search and understand. It always comes down to the usual quarrel about some silly Arabic words anyway which no one agrees the same on. This is also why I simply take it as filling the day with prayers from the early dawn until nightfall and in the night with special devotion. I have not opinionated on that but rather taken "wusta" as prayers in the middle in plural. I am not sure if I have generalized it too much but at least the prayer schedule and the devotion I put down feels good. I read one chapter one of Qur'an and one Jesus' prayer from the Bible in each prayer, but that is just me perhaps. I was touched by the "You should pray like this "Our Lord of Heaven..." and chapter one of Qur'an is obviously a prayer without hesitation.
Anyway, I am no Messenger unless God explicitly tells me so my rambling is not to be followed as the absolute truth but only as ramblings of a blessed man at best. I try not to follow my own vain desires nevertheless. I try to keep my spirituality.
In all of our problems with agreeing on what is the absolute Truth we need to remember the basic criteria I often parrot
- Belief in God
- Believing in His realm (my latest usage of words to describe this)
- Leading a good life
I see number three as the real pillar of Islam and the most important parameter compared to all other details we argue about.
Now I say "I" see salat as a practice you do to purify yourself and seek God's Nearness and Guidance and it should be done regularly and I think we all agree that this statement is true even if it is two, three or five prayers... or two, three or four rakat in each?
Anyways, God's pen does never run out of ink.
God bless you
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To those people who are so fanatically obsessed with RK, do you believe his translation of 434 correct?
I never mean to insult RK because I think he had done many good jobs.
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Peace Yuliana.
I believe RK was a human messenger. Delivering a message was his job. He has done that. He is dead now.End of that chapter.
What always remains is the message.Humans create religions and mess up God s system that is why God sends messengers with a reminder/clarification. As far as I am concerned I hear and obey God Alone! and I try to follow His message SEEKING HIS HELP AND TRUSTING IN HIM ALONE.
s far as , I have already stated that it was RK who highlighted " Women rights". God is reminding Men of their responsibility not to abuse Women and treat them fairly.
Peace Man of faith.
I believe salat to be a connecting period with the Creator. Our real self " soul" need "nourishment "just like our physical body needs food. God explains this in His message " To purify it" i.e Heavy , well nourished souls will be able to withstand God s presence on the day of judgement. Of course other good works contribute as well.
Peace to both of you.
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Salaam good logic,
You are so right. Salat is for nourishment and purification so that we gain His Nearness and Guidance, together with our good deeds as "Man cannot live by words alone".
God bless you
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I asked about 434, not 424. He also one of those who translated into BEAT THEM so what kind of right is here? His translation of 434 only shows supremacy of men over women.
A few weeks ago, a member here told that he/she was banned from the submission forum for questioning RK's translation of 434.
I have asked about this about more than 1 month ago but no RK followers game me satisfactory answers.
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Salaam Yuliana,
The one answer I can think of is that Dr. Khalifa was not destined to perfectly translate Qur'an. It does not matter if he was a Messenger in traditional regard, he started a chain-reaction after his appearance here on Earth. Some people idolize him and take his words as absolute truth and some only take him as a sign for mankind and a milestone until the Judgment Day.
Dr. Khalifa's translation is far from perfect even if it was revolutionary at its time and he did get his translation more accurate than his predecessors. Since then we have even better translations out there. One worrying thing is that Dr. Khalifa's translation is preferred because his alleged Messengership when many other contemporary translations do the work better. However, I must admit that Rashad Khalifa's translation is easy to read even if it is not always accurate. Unfortunately he inserted a lot of footnotes in his Qur'an translation to prove his Messengership and add his thoughts to it which makes for a lot of clutter in it. His earlier translations did not contain this.
One thing I have been able to understand even if I never met the man personally is that in the end he was relatively arrogant with a dangerous ego unless all that is just propaganda against him. However, I have seen articles and videos and he does indeed seem personally changed in the end. And he was convicted for a case of sexual assault in the 70's which seems a bit off for someone who is a pious and determined Believer. I understand that no one is without sin, but it seems a bit off actually.
I believe Dr. Khalifa is always going to be a subject of controversy as he was not absolutely convincing despite valuable contributions to the deen in terms of rejecting Hadith and serving God alone. You can say that he lived by words alone but did not show them in righteous deeds. Like I said, he triggered a chain-reaction despite being seen as a fraud by many and his God alone concept has been dramatically enlarged since the 70's and 80's even if many awed followers have fallen prey of idolization of the man and follow some of his doubtful teachings neatly without questioning.
I can still not thank the man now as he died before I even encountered (traditional) Islam for the first time, but it was only a few years ago that I discovered about Islam and Rashad Khalifa was the first protagonists of God alone that I encountered when I questioned the traditional Islam almost immediately when I had read Qur'an for the first time. And his English translation was the first "non-sectarian" one that I read except the Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation I had bought on the Internet. If he had been alive now I would gladly have met him.
I know lots of people do not believe in his discoveries about a mathematical phenomenon and that is not really fundamental to our salvation anyways. It is a hidden phenomenon at best and it is nothing to fight over if we are determined that there is no such phenomenon respective the opposite. I still consider it wrong to in an obsessed way scramble forth lots of combinations just to prove a lot of things as I think the phenomenon is only to prove that the Qur'an is compiled by God and He is the author.
And sorry GODsubmitter that both me and Yuliana took this discussion in the wrong place and I will try to not repeat it.
God bless you
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I asked about 434, not 424. He also one of those who translated into BEAT THEM so what kind of right is here? His translation of 434 only shows supremacy of men over women.
A few weeks ago, a member here told that he/she was banned from the submission forum for questioning RK's translation of 434.
I have asked about this about more than 1 month ago but no RK followers game me satisfactory answers.
This is your second post that is fftopic @diamantine-whatever!
Please @diamantinehoneybunch abstain writing here if you cannot contribute about Salat.
This is not a thread about Dr. Rashad Khalifa. PhD !
Thank you.
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And sorry GODsubmitter that both me and Yuliana took this discussion in the wrong place and I will try to not repeat it.
God bless you
Thank you @Man of Faith for your gentleman's apologize, and thank you also very much for your replay #166 on this thread.
May God bless you and keep you in good health.
Peace
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Peace Godsubmitter., Yuliana
Sorry for this off topic.I will answer Yuliana for the last time in your thread.
Peace Yuliana.
This is what RK said about
34 God prohibits wife-beating by using the best psychological approach. For example, if I don't want you to shop at Market X, I will ask you to shop at Market Y, then at Market Z, then, as a last resort, at Market X. This will effectively stop you from shopping at Market X, without insulting you. Similarly, God provides alternatives to wife-beating; reasoning with her first, then employing certain negative incentives. Remember that the theme of this sura is defending the women's rights and countering the prevalent oppression of women. Any interpretation of the verses of this sura must be in favor of the women. This sura's theme is ``protection of women.''
As for read the translation ,if you wish , here
http//submission.org/QI#4%3A0-24
As for the submission site ,I have nothing to do with them. I do my own studies and try my best to have a "personal" relationship with the Lord.
God is your best bet at explaining Qoran to you.Trust in Him Alone and keep studying and asking.You do not need anyone else to explain Qoran to you. As a matter of fact They will fail; ,[ 7146}.
Overall, relax, love God the most, and be patient and tolerant.
God bless you.
Peace.
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Dear Godsubmitter, I talked about your beloved RK because both of you and 'good' logic are so freaking obsessed with RK and you guys posted on this thread.
There is no such thing as salat 2,4,4,3,4 rakaat. Where did you get this from? Jewish Orthodoxy?
Good logic,
How hypocritical. You said men are allowed to beat their wives as last alternative? This is also what sectarians say about 434, period.
If men are allowed to beat their wives as last alternative, why can't women also beat their husbands as last option? What kind of equality is here? What kind of women's right is here? Just men' supremacy over women.I don't give a damn if people want to call him a messenger.
But you guys take his teachings and translations as absolute truth including his salat, his zakat, his translation of 434".I apologize for posting on here. I write about RK because you guys talked about him and why you believed that he was a messenger. I have made a thread asking about his 434 but RK followers were just silent.
Your salat conclusion is based on Rashad Khalifa too.
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Peace Yuliana.
How hypocritical. You said men are allowed to beat their wives as last alternative?
Where did I say this?
You asked what was RK s view and I quoted himInstead of having a go at everyone, bring your understanding and evidence it from Qoran.
You seem to criticise but fail to bring the alternative meaning.
Come on ,enlighten us. Explain to us the "deen "according to Qoran alone.
Let me repeat what I said to you;
" Your best bet of understanding Qoran is God. Not me or anyone else."
I hope you keep seeking Him Alone. I am certain if you sincerely do that , He will help you with all your problems.Peace to you.
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Then why the heck did Rashad Khalifa PBUH translate idriboohunne into beat them?
Why do you ask more freaking questions to me?
Don't you know that your buddy God submitter tried to banish me from this thread because I was off-topic?Anyways, his first post on here (I mean his conclusion) was based on his dream and his Jewish culture plus his love towards RK. He rejects all non five salat theories and tries best to bring five salat theory.
I have no enough time to write but I will post all theories that I found in a new thread.
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I will post all theories that I found in a new thread.
Yrs, do so!
Start your own thread!And I do not "love" Dr. Rashad Khalifa, PhD, first because I've never met the man, second because it is not a question of loving someone, but accepting his sound reasoning of explaining the Qur'an and learning from him things that I never knew about Islam or better said submission to God.
To me, Dr. Rashad Khalifa, PhD brought irrefutable proofs and signs that God has chosen him as a messenger, unlike you or anybody else who doesn't bring any sign or confirmation from God why people should listen to you! You just manipulate with emotions "love" etc, as most women do!
If men are allowed to beat their wives as last alternative, why can't women also beat their husbands as last option? What kind of equality is here? What kind of women's right is here? Just men' supremacy over women.
And besides, men and women are not the same, and will never be! They are quite different, equal in rights perhaps yes, but never the same!
Do you need Qur'an to tell you that? As you might know, in Qur'an there is not equality in testimony, inheritance and some other issues between men and women. (411 "the male gets twice the share of the female" etc etc)
Don't you find it indicative that God had never chosen a woman to be a Prophet or Messenger, (except Miriam as a chaste womb for the birth of the Messiah)?
AND,
This is from the Authorized translation of the Qur'an by Dr.Rashad Khalifa, PhD.
Do Not Beat Your Wife*
The men are made responsible for the women,** and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.*434 God prohibits wife-beating by using the best psychological approach. For example, if I don't want you to shop at Market X, I will ask you to shop at Market Y, then at Market Z, then, as a last resort, at Market X. This will effectively stop you from shopping at Market X, without insulting you. Similarly, God provides alternatives to wife-beating; reasoning with her first, then employing certain negative incentives. Remember that the theme of this sura is defending the women's rights and countering the prevalent oppression of women. Any interpretation of the verses of this sura must be in favor of the women. This sura's theme is "protection of women."
**434 This expression simply means that God is appointing the husband as "captain of the ship." Marriage is like a ship, and the captain runs it after due consultation with his officers. A believing wife readily accepts God's appointment, without mutiny.
So, do please go somewhere else and fight for women's rights and politically-correct "feminist" agenda and views, thank you!
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Maybe this is the aim of Salat
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsvEkPNitdQ&feature=user
"This is not about talking about peace. This is about creating real peace." -David Lynch; with quantum physicist Dr. John Hagelin.
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Women are stupid.
Thank you.
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Friday prayer? Jumla? or preparation for Shabbat?
The more I ponder, I come to the conclusion that 629 refers to gathering before the beginning of Shabbat
699 O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu`ah)* is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.
- the fact that translators have to ADD that shows that it is an innovation!
Simply the WHOLE sura talks about Jews, culminating with the very well known gathering before the beginning of Shabbat, when the prayer is offered to "welcome" the arrival of the day of rest in the synagogue, or people gather in their homes for Friday Shabbat evening meal, and it coincides with the salat at dusk, or isha if you like, so, it perfectly matches! It is just few minutes after the sunset... And perhaps that's why there is no mention whatsoever of any sermon of any kind as practiced in traditional Islam yay
Of course it is Friday, but the so called "Friday-noon-prayer" called Jumla is an innovation I think!
because it is not at noon, but at the sunset!I mean, just look at the sura in its entirety !
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Glorifying GOD is everything in the heavens and everything on earth; the King, the Most Sacred, the Almighty, the Most Wise.
He is the One who sent to the gentiles a messenger from among them, to recite to them His revelations, purify them, and teach them the scripture and wisdom. Before this, they had gone far astray.
And to many generations subsequent to them. He is the Almighty, Most Wise.
Such is GOD's grace that He bestows upon whomever He wills. GOD is Possessor of Infinite Grace.
The example of those who were given the Torah then failed to uphold it is like the donkey carrying great works of literature. Miserable indeed is the example of people who rejected GOD's revelations. GOD does not guide the wicked people.
Say, "O you who are Jewish, if you claim that you are GOD's chosen, to the exclusion of all other people, then you should long for death if you are truthful!"
They will never long for it, because of what they have committed. GOD is fully aware of the wicked.
Say, "The death that you are trying to evade will catch up with you sooner or later. Then you will be returned to the Knower of all secrets and declarations, then He will inform you of everything you had done."
Important Commandments
to All Believers
O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu'ah) is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.
Once the prayer is completed, you may spread through the land to seek GOD's bounties, and continue to remember GOD frequently, that you may succeed.
When some of them come across a business deal, or some entertainment, they rush to it and leave you standing! Say, "What GOD possesses is far better than the entertainment or the business. GOD is the best Provider."So, even the Qur'an confirms that Sabbath was never lost, and that it is Saturday as it had always been since the beginning of time. (one can do the research, as serious scientists PROVED that today's Saturday is really the seventh day!)
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Friday prayer? Jumla? or preparation for Shabbat?
The more I ponder, I come to the conclusion that 629 refers to gathering before the beginning of Shabbat
699 O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu`ah)* is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.
- the fact that translators have to ADD that shows that it is an innovation!
.......
So, even the Qur'an confirms that Sabbath was never lost, and that it is Saturday as it had always been since the beginning of time. (one can do the research, as serious scientists PROVED that today's Saturday is really the seventh day!)
That sounds interesting. But could you tell me brother where does Quran confirm that Shabbat was not lost? I think I remember something like it says that Shabbat was only for Jews? (if Im not wrong, not sure right now...)
- the fact that translators have to ADD that shows that it is an innovation!
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Sorry, I don't understand your question.
I myself am still in doubt whether one is to keep Sabbath and how...Peace