The Search for Muhammad has Ended

noble

Peace All...

Actually, I would prefer that this thread be only used by pazuzu and locked to anyone else until he has the chance to expose all the details he has completely and in full...

then after that we can have an opportunity to debate and check out the information...

there are still some very serious issues I want to hear about, the most salient one being

Did Mohamed (PSTH and the other Prophets) emigrate to Yathrib, and complete Allah's Message (The Quran) there? ...

IMHO

Peace NOMAD -- what logical ideas?
All he does is post perpetual stories/assertions hardly responds to questions or evidence posted to him.

The Amarna letters, a collection of correspondence between various states and Egypt found in the remains of the ancient city of Akhetaten date around 1370 BCE completely destroy his theory.

Salaam Noon

On many occasions I have found your input to be well researched, but here I see you hinging your argument on a single document, which you say was dated around 1370 BCE, and claim what you have is more authentic then the maps and other documents given by Pazazu.
I suggest that a little humbless may be in order; it may enable you to see that Pazazu is only using Al Qu'ran as the basis for his findings. I have also seen some very good programmes on archeology in Palestine which confirmed that, despite extensive digging no evidence of a major city in the vicinity of Jerusalem has been found.
In Yemen they have excavated city where mud dwellings with baths to purify and it fitted jewish rituals. I am sure if you do bit of search you will find out about it.
Jerusalem is said to be located in a mountainous area, so tell me if you see any mountains there.
Also tell me why did the Saudies started building high rises in a supposedly holy place, and when you build you dig deeply into the ground; did they find any sign of ruined cities, about which its says in the Qur'an 'you walk by them daily etc.

peace

noble

Peace All...

Actually, I would prefer that this thread be only used by pazuzu and locked to anyone else until he has the chance to expose all the details he has completely and in full...

then after that we can have an opportunity to debate and check out the information...

there are still some very serious issues I want to hear about, the most salient one being

Did Mohamed (PSTH and the other Prophets) emigrate to Yathrib, and complete Allah's Message (The Quran) there? ...

or is Yathrib a part of Yemen too? LOL! o

NOMAD

Salam Noon dhe Plume handshake

...IF YOU CAN GIVE ME THIS 7 ANSWERS WITH LOGICAL... MAYBE I GIVE YOU YOUR CHANCE, Until then i would apreciatte if you let brother Pazuzu keep going, in the way of edducation and diplomacy D... and at the end i will ask you for your answers again D .... I hope and i dont want to make a personal atack on you, ITS a education matter to listen untill the end what brother Pazuzu trying to explain and if you read all posts again you can see some very interesting facts that we must search before we discard.. ...PAZUZU uses AlQuran.. and You marnama pillars... its OK ....

So your questions peace are

1Do the countless Egyptian excavations, archeological sites and unearthed heritage show any evidence or reference to a non-Egyptian figure named "Abraham" who alleged to have resided in Egypt anytime between the years 1800 and 1700 B.C? &

2 Is there any evidence suggesting that a non-Egyptian figure named Yusuf assumed a treasurer position around1600 B.C.? &

3 Does any ancient Egyptian papyrus or manuscript mention anything about an Israeli leader named Moses who confronted one of the prominent Egyptian kings around 1300 B.C? &

4 Do the Egyptian ancient documents mention that the king who confronted Moses drowned in the red sea 400 km from his capital or even the Nile River or any other watercourse? &

5 Are there any traces of references found in the thousands of ancient Egyptian scripts mentioning the detailed biblical exodus of more than half a million people around the year 1300 B.C? &

6 Does any papyrus refer to the famous miraculous sea-crossing of more than half a million fleeing people? &

7 Have any reference been found between the years 5000 and 32 B.C. indicating that the kings of Egypt were called or referred to as "Pharos" other than the dubious "big house" notion? &

NEED SOME HELP? read/reflect on this http//www.tajdeed.org/article.aspx?id=10334 hmm

SALAM TO ALL.. group and please keep going Pazuzu ;D

jediN O M A Djedi

unknownuser

No, Yathrib (Iathrippa - as its name appears on the old maps) is NOT in Yemen.

Furthermore, the ISRA'A of Muhamad (the night journey), was no diferent than the Isra'a made by many of the prophets before him. Whenever persecution by the disbelievers reached its peak, Allah commanded them to pack their gear and leave. And they always left in secret, without attracting attenton. (Hence the word "Isra'a", which is derived from the root "srr", which means secret).

Moses did an Isra'a (left the Citadel at night). Also, Lut did an Isra'a (left the doomed town, and his wife stayed behind and perished). The Isra'a of Muhamad was no different.

@Noon dhe plume

Yes, the Amarna pillars DO mention "Ur' Shalim". The question is WHICH "Jerusalem" was it??

Soon I will show you IRREFUTABLE proofs that the ancient EGYPTIANS did many excursions into Arabia, and vied for the control of the Red Sea coast with the Assyrians. Among the Egytptian kings who ventured into Arabia are the Lybian-Egyptian monarch Sheshonk, as we shall later see.

The Isra'a journey is the HIJRA itself. And it was NOT to Palestine.

Peace...

youssef4342

Peace Everyone peace
A point i want to make is that 1) what was the kingdom of Queen sheeba, cannot be the "Blessed" land.

unknownuser

I never said the Kingdom of Sheba was the "blessed land".

The blessed land is ASIR, directly to the north of Yemen. It was outside the boundaries of Sulayman's kingdom. Asir is the most fertile and greenest spot of land in all of Arabia, and is known for its gold deposits. I will show you photos of the land of Asir, and you will not believe your eyes that there are such places in Arabia. You will think the photos are in Europe somewhere.

If you think Arabia is all desert, you are greatly mistaken.

Peace...

Noon_dhe_plume

Peace IMHO,

On many occasions I have found your input to be well researched, but here I see you hinging your argument on a single document, which you say was dated around 1370 BCE, and claim what you have is more authentic then the maps and other documents given by Pazazu.
I suggest that a little humbless may be in order; it may enable you to see that Pazazu is only using Al Qu'ran as the basis for his findings.

How is this Qu?ran only? E.g. where did he get his facts that migration occurred in 4th Century BCE?

Quote from Pazuzu

The silent truth that has been uncovered for you, brothers and sisters, is that the current city of Al-Quds did not become known as "Jerusalem" until as late as the 4th Century BC, when it achieved the semblance of a city, and the Jewish migrations northward from Arabia had settled it, and carried with them the name of the original Jerusalem of Yemen ??Ur? Salem?. (This is a well-known process called ?tayammun?, in which tribes or groups of people move to settle in new lands, and carry with them names from their old homes to their new home. I will show you many examples later on, dozens of names of mountains, cities, and valleys in the Levant which are in fact copies of the exact same names found in Yemen, where they originated. And these will be a great shock to many of you).

Fact is one can claim the opposite happened with evidence reading The Amarna letters/tablets unless one is convinced they too are a conspiracy along with everything else dug up in Egypt.

The document is only one or two and many other points raised; issue with this thread is once a point is made we cannot continued further until resolved or we agreed to revisit otherwise we get nowhere.

I have also seen some very good programmes on archeology in Palestine which confirmed that, despite extensive digging no evidence of a major city in the vicinity of Jerusalem has been found.

If you want to study this point thoroughly open a separate thread; also what you expect to find?
Here I?ll post this again taken from a different historical document Sennacherib Prism Column 3

Approximate Date 689 BCE
http//www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/meso/sennprism1.html

http//www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/meso/sennprism3.html

18 As for Hezekiah the Judahite, 19 who did not submit to my yoke forty-six of his strong, walled cities, as well as 20 the small towns in their area, 21 which were without number, by levelling with battering-rams 22 and by bringing up seige-engines, and by attacking and storming on foot, 23 by mines, tunnels, and breeches, I besieged and took them. 24 200,150 people, great and small, male and female, 25 horses, mules, asses, camels, 26 cattle and sheep without number, I brought away from them 27 and counted as spoil. (Hezekiah) himself, like a caged bird 28 I shut up in Jerusalem, his royal city.

In Yemen they have excavated city where mud dwellings with baths to purify and it fitted jewish rituals. I am sure if you do bit of search you will find out about it.

They have Jews all across the mid-east; please provide proof of the age of Jewish mud baths/dwelling.

Jerusalem is said to be located in a mountainous area, so tell me if you see any mountains there.

Said who?

Also tell me why did the Saudies started building high rises in a supposedly holy place, and when you build you dig deeply into the ground; did they find any sign of ruined cities, about which its says in the Qur'an 'you walk by them daily etc.

Again, separate issue; let?s break it down as any problem to it's simplest first deal with one at a time with what we know i.e. above historical documents ? do you agree that Jerusalem was mentioned in correspondences between Egypt and neighboring kingdoms in 1370 and again in 689 BCE?

@Noon dhe plume

Yes, the Amarna pillars DO mention "Ur' Shalim". The question is WHICH "Jerusalem" was it??

Thank you Pazuzu, finally agreement then read the letters and the areas mentioned.

Peace

noble

@Noon dhe plume

I am different from you, and prefer to read everything pazuzu has to say... and then analyse it as a whole...

and hope you can suspend your judgement until this is finished...

just a view and a method of conducting what may be called webinars (equivalent to seminars, but over the web)

Iznagen

The blessed land is ASIR, directly to the north of Yemen. It was outside the boundaries of Sulayman's kingdom. Asir is the most fertile and greenest spot of land in all of Arabia, and is known for its gold deposits. I will show you photos of the land of Asir, and you will not believe your eyes that there are such places in Arabia. You will think the photos are in Europe somewhere.

There's some greenery indeed!

http//photo.accuweather.com/photogallery/2009/5/500/2dc173491.jpg
http//www.waleg.com/travel/images/asir-mountains.jpg
http//ttc-ad4.com/Travel/images/stories/Asir/061518_t168.jpg

Iznagen

Sorry double posted by accident -[

youssef4342

Peace everyone peace

A recommended documentary i will cite is the "The Exodus Decoded".

It has a nice scientific explanation of the miracles that were Given to Moses (basing it's views on the nile river)
I also like Jacobovici's Mycenaean Arguments, especialy the ones of Gravestones
This is in line with the Quran, where it states that the children of Israel Went by sea...
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus_Decoded
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FileStele_of_Grave_Circle_A_Mycenae.jpg

Also Pazuzu, I would like to bring again Jesus into the Storey.
This is because the Quran states that the people of the book shall rule with the Injil.
Now, by yuor claims that Jesus is not Isa, and that Isa lived and died in arabia. Tell me where is the Injil that the Quran is talking about? I bring Jesus because from the Acount of the Gospels, the Jews at the time where located in Jerusalem.

noble

Peace everyone peace

Also Pazuzu, I would like to bring again Jesus into the Storey.
This is because the Quran states that the people of the book shall rule with the Injil.
Now, by yuor claims that Jesus is not Isa, and that Isa lived and died in arabia. Tell me where is the Injil that the Quran is talking about? I bring Jesus because from the Acount of the Gospels, the Jews at the time where located in Jerusalem.

Peace youssef4342, pazuzu, all...

me too, at one stage I would aslo like the issue of the Injeel to be addressed, especially where it was revealed...

another thing, from the Quran, it seems the underlying assumption is as if both the Torah and Injeel were available to the People of the Book at the time of Mohammed (PSTH and the other Prophets),

this is speculation on my part but maybe original written copies of those are still available and hidden somewhere?

will it be possible that Israelites from Yemen have still written unadulterated copies of the original Torah,

because Allah in the Quran points that they were written on pieces of carton and their contents not heeded,
likening those who do so as donkeys carrying /empty cargoes/ (zeroes)...

thanks and Salaam...

Nabil

IMHO

This city was at the hub of the trade routes, and is at least 2,500 years older than Mecca.

Could all this be coincidence, brothers and sisters?
To Be Continued...

Salaam Pazuzu
Thank you again for all the information you have posted, I would again reccomand putting it in book as you have covered it logically with refererence from the Qur'an and there are never enough books no matter how much has been written about.
Now look at this modern city with Big Ban with a crescent >
http//www.dawn.com/2011/11/09/future-development-of-makkah-aims-to-fit-heritage.html

youssef4342

Peace youssef4342, pazuzu, all...

me too, at one stage I would aslo like the issue of the Injeel to be addressed, especially where it was revealed...

another thing, from the Quran, it seems the underlying assumption is as if both the Torah and Injeel were available to the People of the Book at the time of Mohammed (PSTH and the other Prophets),

this is speculation on my part but maybe original written copies of those are still available and hidden somewhere?

will it be possible that Israelites from Yemen have still written unadulterated copies of the original Torah,

because Allah in the Quran points that they were written on pieces of carton and their contents not heeded,
likening those who do so as donkeys carrying /empty cargoes/ (zeroes)...

thanks and Salaam...

Nabil

Peace Nabil peace
I would like to also state that there is only one man in the world that people claimed that he was the "son" of the Almighty, and this is the self same Jesus. Also, the Quran states that the some of people who followed Isa adopted hermitism, and also, in general they are more nice/compassionate/and not arrogant. Is this not the same Philanthropy of Jesus that we have in the Gospels. Love your neighbor as thyself, and whoever exalts himself will be debased, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted?

Who else in the World was begotten out of a virgin and was called the Messiah, and raised the dead, and fed many people with only a little bit of food as the Quran and the Gospels claim?

Pazuzu, You cannot dismiss Jesus, as not being the Quranic Isa. Where is the Proof that the Quranic Isa lived in Arabia?
*Also, if you claim that the Blessed land is Asir in arabia, then is there remnants of the Temple that was destroyed?

~May the ALmighty guide us to the truth~
~Peace eace

~Blessed is his Most Blessed, Supreme, Serene, High Majesty, YHWH; the Knower of All secrets and declarations~
~ Hallel YAH! ~
sun

unknownuser

Please leave Jesus out of this. The subject of "Jesus" cannot be done any justice, unless it is kept in a seperate thread.
I can't post in 3 threads at the same time.

I have one more post to make in the "Pharaoh of Moses" thread, and then I will permanently sign out from there, and focus my attention here.

You asked "Who else in the World was begotten out of a virgin and was called the Messiah, and raised the dead, and fed many people with only a little bit of food"

The answer to that is These are legends that the Nasara of Arabia had about Isa (Esau) son of Mariam, the daughter of Amran. He was born shortly after Moses' time, in the outskirts of Najran, which was the craddle of the Nasarene Creed. (And later, that same city saw the birth of the Nestorian Christian faith, which ticked off the Himyarite Jews of Yemen, and ultimately led to the Massacre of the Trench).

The Jesus (Yeshua) of the New Testament could not have been born of a virgin mother. The reason is because both Paul and John mention his familly tree very clearly, through his father Joseph, and trace him all the way back to David. (i.e he was Jesus, son of Joseph the Craftsman, son of so and so and so and so ...............son of David). Do you get the picture? How can he be born of a virgin mother AND have a familly tree (lineage) through HIS FATHER, all the way to David? Can't you see the glaring contradiction? This is something that the Christians like to keep "in the closet" (so to speak). It means that Paul and John used a different source for their writings than did Mark, Mathew and Luke.

And this source was the lost Injeel of the Nasara, which Paul recovered during his "mysterious" trip to Arabia, where he spent 3 years.

Paul attributed to Jesus (a charismatic and political rebel who sought to overthrow Roman rule of Palestine) all that the Nasara had written about Esau, centuries earlier. And he did this for political reasons.

Hence CHRISTIANITY IS A LIE CREATED BY THE JEWS, FOR POLITICAL MANIPULATION (protection of Roman interests in Palestine).

This is all I will say about the subject here.

It is completely off topic, and needs a seperate thread of its own.

Peace...

youssef4342

Peace Pazuzu peace

you disregarded the real apostles of Jesus, which have an account to their own version of the "Gospel".
I woud say the best account, and another member has stated this also (Jafar), that the Gospel of Matthew is the best account.

You brought out paul but you disregarded the previous accounts. Jesus' doctrine was simple and put

Also, Joseph adopted the child Jesus, to my thinking, and so, Joseph is not his real father.
Again you bring out paul, who does have his claims, but you disregarded the doctrine of Jesus.
Paul came after Jesus. The Gospels according to Mark, Mathew and Luke, seme to be more in line.
Paul was NOT a prophet, his writings should not be accounted for as Laws decreed By God Almighty.
Jesus did not come to abolish the law, as he stated in his own words in the Gospels. He came to confirm the Torah, and to make some unlawful things lawful to the children of Israel, as the Quran States.

As i mentioned before, some of his followers adopted hermitism, but nevertheless, his true followers of his tecahings are nice/compassionate, and closer in friendship to the believers of the Quran, as stated in the Quran.

Peace peace

noble

Peace youssef4342, pazuzu,

I tend to agree with you, Bro youssef4342...
but it was a mistake to bring in the issue of Jesus in this thread, because it distracts from the subject of Muhammad (P)...

My interest will transform into amazement if I am told that the actual Muhammad of Yathrib is not the real Muhammad, but a charismatic and industrious Jew who hijacked the teachings of the Revelations of the Message of the Quran in Yemen's Asir from the real Muhammad (P) many years later in order for the Jews to have a new go at taking over Palestine from the Romans...

That will indeed be a double whammy of manipulations, the likes of which there has never been before )

now am I right or am I right, is history repeating itself in the Hijaz and ME, or am I stretching my imagination a bit far... laugh

Peace and Smiles )

Peace Pazuzu peace

you disregarded the real apostles of Jesus, which have an account to their own version of the "Gospel".
I woud say the best account, and another member has stated this also (Jafar), that the Gospel of Matthew is the best account.

You brought out paul but you disregarded the previous accounts. Jesus' doctrine was simple and put

Also, Joseph adopted the child Jesus, to my thinking, and so, Joseph is not his real father.
Again you bring out paul, who does have his claims, but you disregarded the doctrine of Jesus.
Paul came after Jesus. The Gospels according to Mark, Mathew and Luke, seme to be more in line.
Paul was NOT a prophet, his writings should not be accounted for as Laws decreed By God Almighty.
Jesus did not come to abolish the law, as he stated in his own words in the Gospels. He came to confirm the Torah, and to make some unlawful things lawful to the children of Israel, as the Quran States.

As i mentioned before, some of his followers adopted hermitism, but nevertheless, his true followers of his tecahings are nice/compassionate, and closer in friendship to the believers of the Quran, as stated in the Quran.

Peace peace

GODsubmitter