The Search for Muhammad has Ended
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Thanks HP-TECH for all technical information but you forgot to give your understanding of 865-7
What don't you understand brother?
According to my current understanding these verses are referring to sperm or components of semen.
These are secreted form the seminal vesicle. Seminal vesicle is located adjacent to the sacrum, which is the base of the backbone/spine l-sul'bi. It supports the whole upper body and intersects with pelvis.http//anatomytubuh.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/male-anatomy-abdomen.jpg
https//medlineplus.gov/ency/images/ency/fullsize/19464.jpgIf you think about the male anatomy in 3D then seminal vesicle is between lower most ribs l-taraibi and apex of sacrum which is anchor and support of the spine/backbone l-sul'bi see below
https//i.imgsafe.org/db224d1a49.jpg
This is my understanding Novice.
But of course Allah Knows Best!!
May Allah guide those of us who seek His Guidance closer to the Straight Path and to the correct interpretation and understanding.
And may my Lord forgive for me lest I err and unknowingly deceive the believers -
HP TECH he masculine is used for males and words that are of masculine gener but there is a form of address and reference which form is the same as masculine bu which is used whenn gender is not itended to be shown and which is used for that purpose wither when the sex of the perso or animal is not intended to be shown or because it is kunknown. Of Course quer'an raders of certai type soon as there is not a cler cut markof feminine and it iterests them make everythig masculine but that is not so. Also adam's mateis nor named in the feminine. So o sex is give to ay particuar individual of the adam. Adam is the human vaariety that is give revelatio at that time thus making them insaan not just bashar. The ue of gramatical gender sinn te Qur'an is the same as in Spanish nd grammarias traditionnally mostly men make evrythign masculine that is to their advantaag, but the fact is that there is anothr ggender, which is like masculine, but is used for unknown or unrevealed subjects and also for mixed occurrences of both sexes or genders.
Of course I will not even attempt to convince anybodyof that. I know the reactions. But please do show some femenine form of address for the purported "wife" of adam.
As to that nafs we all come from is to a person it would be a species any time in volutionn who showed the traits of mammals. Mammals do whoe in their bodies the traces of having had the sexual traits of both sexes.
Salaam
Salaam
Gender equality is absolutely important. I tend to now agree with you, I now am in the understanding that Adamu refers to both male and female.
If anyone were to take a look at the two narrations in the Quran when the Shaitan approaches and whispers to Adamu you might see what I now see.
In one narration the shaitan is said to approach both of them and whisper to both of them and make both of them slip, while in the other narration the shaitan approaches Adamu and as a consequence they BOTH slip.
It is certainly makes more sense that when Allah fashioned man he finished both genders.
Then taught Adamu, both male and female all the names
This makes much more sense because in the event after Iblis vows vengeance against Adamu, Allah tells Adamu to dwell with its mate in the garden. It is an address to both of them. It does not seem as if it were just Adam informing about the names and standing before the malaika.I admit I have been a bit ignorant and sexist about this matter before. I finally see why Adamu is not necessarily a proper name.
I could be wrong in saying that it is definitely not a proper name, so I am not claiming so.
It is possible that it was a proper name, but I am more convinced now after a night-long research that Adamu includes our mother and father.Although no one can deny that our Lord created a male and a female as distinct genders.
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=7&verse=189#(71899)
7189 He (is) the One Who created you from a single soul and made from it its mate that he might live with her. And when he covers her, she carries a burden light and continues with it. But when she grows heavy, they both invoke Allah, their Lord, "If You give us a righteous (child), surely we will be among the thankful."Again this is not saying that either gender was extracted from an initial gender. NO
I think Allah is saying that He created both male and female from one essence.
That is why we want to be with each other. That is why there is natural chemistry, affection and love between men and women.
We long that counterpart that makes our soul "complete"
He created pairs from oneThat is why He made everything in pairs it is a detailing of His Signs, the way that everything seeks a partner and companionship.
Everything that lives wants to copulate and become whole.We seek to be whole like The One Who Has no Equal, He is Whole without partnership and Absolute! Glory to Him!
5149 And of every thing We have created pairs, so that you may remember.
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3636 Glory to Him Who has created pairs of everything that the earth grows, and of themselves, and of things they have no knowledge yet
one soul(genderless) then a pair male and female... or adam and mate.. thats what i was on about before as welll...creation did not finish on adam ,instead creation completed when a pair of male and female come in to existence after that incidents like expelling from garden and teaching names and stuff happen.. process of all this only God knows
peace
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HP, I think tat when peole see adam as male and then the female they are infuenced,by one of the two biblical accounts. There is one, very brief, which matches the Qur'an and there is a longer one, whichreads like some science fiction drama where there is a snake and all that.
I find the Qur'anic acount harmonius and measured, bi mizaan a we tend to hik of the universed when we read sura Ar-rahmaan.
Salaam
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What don't you understand brother?
According to my current understanding these verses are referring to sperm or components of semen.
These are secreted form the seminal vesicle. Seminal vesicle is located adjacent to the sacrum, which is the base of the backbone/spine l-sul'bi. It supports the whole upper body and intersects with pelvis.Thanks brother for your reply. I am not challenging you but trying to understand these verses.
If these verses are referring to sperm then sperm cells are produced in the seminiferous tubules of the testicles (which make up the bulk of each testicle) and then stored in a structure on the testes called the epididymus. From there they travel up the vas deferens...
How do you reconcile emitting of sperms from testicles with the verse?
Thanks in advance for giving your understanding.
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You know very well that none here care what the Jews say/write...We are followers of the Quran as our source of law.
There are still some truth in the Tawrah, probably about 10%?
You speak against Jewish history (which I may or may not agree with you), but then you turn around and start inventing your own history which may be just as bad - Abraham came from Yemen!
i believe to a certain extent, Pazuzu was right...please see http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608396.0
Here is what my authentic history (Quran) tells me
- Abraham left his people and emigrated to the land whuch God had blessed;
- Lot was from Abraham's progeny and emigrated with him;
- Abraham and Ismail raised the foundations of the Temple;
- Abraham called people to pilgrimage to the Temple;
- Abraham's progeny resided in a valley not far from the location of the Temple;
- Lot's people were destroyed by Angels and the town was left as a sign for people;
- Jacob had 12 sons and one of those sons became a minister in Egypt and moved all the sons of Jacob there;
- Moses was sent to resucue the children of Jacob from Egypt;
- Moses was supposed to settle in the blessed land - but due to the disobediance of the tribe, they were blocked from it for 40 years;
- David and Solomon formed the kingdom of Israel;
- The location of this kingdom was not in the holy land, as Solomon used to send the winds there, but was near Sheba;
- Jesus (and others before him) were sent to follow in the footsteps of Abraham;
- Mohammed came to follow in the same footsteps;
- God names the holy land "Baca" and says that the station of Abraham is inside the Temple;
- Mohammed liberated the holy land before his death;
- The Children of Israel , during their 2nd rise, will occupy the holy land as prophecsized in suran 17.
I would like to address the above highlighted ones
Lot was not from Abraham's progney, he was from Nuh
Nowhere in the Quran or Tawrah mentioned that Jacob had 12 sons. It was Ishmael that had 12 sons.
Nowhere in the Quran that says Moses was sent to rescue children of Jacob. . Furthermore, Moses was a Messenger-Prophet, that means he was sent the worlds just like the Last Prophet of ALLAH! After he rescued the children of Israel, he led the rest of the 11 tribal nations - the Ishmaelites, to the bless land.
The location of the Kingdom was within the Holy Land....http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608396.0
The children of Israel already rise for the second time and they had assimilated with the Ishmaelites, plausibly during the ministry of the Last Prophet!
Now, which place was it that Jesus, Moses, and Mohammed all highlighted as being "holy", and which place do all the faiths in one form or another agree that pilgrimage was towards?
The answer is a place that is "known" and "revered" by all the faiths - else the whole point of calling mankind to the pilgrimage is missed!
I can tell you - that place is not Yemen.
it is norther part of Yemen.......http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608396.0
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Thanks brother for your reply. I am not challenging you but trying to understand these verses.
If these verses are referring to sperm then sperm cells are produced in the seminiferous tubules of the testicles (which make up the bulk of each testicle) and then stored in a structure on the testes called the epididymus. From there they travel up the vas deferens...
How do you reconcile emitting of sperms from testicles with the verse?
Thanks in advance for giving your understanding.
It's okay we are supposed to question everything! And it is my duty to after presenting a view to provide evidence or thought process behind such understanding.
Well I should clarify that I understand this as semen not exactly sperm. Semen is the end product while sperm is only a component of what's being ejaculated. Semen is therefore a mix of fluids. These other fluids used along with sperm cells stored in epididymis are obtained from the seminal vesicle and prostrate gland. What gives semen its fluidity are these seminal components from seminal vesicle and prostrate gland which nourish and protect sperm cells(which in respect are much more dense and viscous than the fluid).
865 Falyanthuri al-insanu mimma khuliqa
866 Khuliqa min ma-in dafiqin
867 Yakhruju min bayni alssulbi waalttara-ibi865 So let see man from what he is created.
866 He is created from a water, ejected,
867 Coming forth from between the backbone and the ribs.The Quran is a kitab Book with its parts oft-repeated. What does this mean? That if you are looking for confirmation of a certain concept then it should appear more than once.
327 Allathee ahsana kulla shay-in khalaqahu wabadaa khalqa al-insani min teenin
328 Thumma jaAAala naslahu min sulalatin min ma-in maheenin
329 Thumma sawwahu wanafakha feehi min roohihi wajaAAala lakumu alssamAAa waal-absara waal-af-idata qaleelan ma tashkuroona327 The One Who made good every thing He created, and He began (the) creation (of) man from clay.
328 Then He made his progeny from an extract of water despised.
329 Then He fashioned him and breathed into him from His spirit and made for you the hearing and the sight and feelings; little thanks you give.2312 Walaqad khalaqna al-insana min sulalatin min teenin
2313 Thumma jaAAalnahu nutfatan fee qararin makeenin
2314 Thumma khalaqna alnnutfata AAalaqatan fakhalaqna alAAalaqata mudghatan fakhalaqna almudghata AAithaman fakasawna alAAithama lahman thumma ansha/nahu khalqan akhara fatabaraka Allahu ahsanu alkhaliqeena2312 And indeed, We created the humankind from an essence of clay.
2313 Then We placed him (as) a semen-drop in a resting place firm.
2314 Then We the semen-drop (into) a clinging substance, then We created the clinging substance (into) an embryonic lump, then We created the embryonic lump, (into) bones, then We clothed the bones (with) flesh; then We produce it (as) a creation another. So blessed is Allah (the) Best (of) the Creators.225 Ya ayyuha alnnasu in kuntum fee raybin mina albaAAthi fa-inna khalaqnakum min turabin thumma min nutfatin thumma min AAalaqatin thumma min mudghatin mukhallaqatin waghayri mukhallaqatin linubayyina lakum wanuqirru fee al-arhami ma nashao ila ajalin musamman thumma nukhrijukum tiflan thumma litablughoo ashuddakum waminkum man yutawaffa waminkum man yuraddu ila arthali alAAumuri likayla yaAAlama min baAAdi AAilmin shay-an watara al-arda hamidatan fa-itha anzalna AAalayha almaa ihtazzat warabat waanbatat min kulli zawjin baheejin
225 O mankind! If you are in doubt about the Resurrection, then indeed, We We created you from dust, then from a semen-drop then from a clinging substance then from an embryonic lump, formed and unformed, that We may make clear to you. And We cause to remain in the wombs what We will for a term appointed, then We bring you out (as) a child, that you may reach maturity. And among you (is he) who dies, and among you (is he) who is returned to the most abject age, so that not he knows, after having known, anything. And you see the earth barren then when We send down on it water, it gets stirred and it swells and grows of every kind beautiful.
Noun
(1644) nu'fatin a minute quantity of semen
(183713) nu'fatin a minute quantity of semen
(22515) nu'fatin a semen-drop
(23133) nu'fatan (as) a semen-drop
(23143) l-nu'fata the semen-drop
(35117) nu'fatin a semen-drop
(36777) nu'fatin a semen-drop
(4067 nu'fatin a semen-drop
(53462) nu'fatin a semen-drop
(75373) nu'fatan a semen-drop
(7625) nu'fatin a semen-drop
(80192) nu'fatin a semen-dropYou should inspect all these Signs yourself,
but as you can see this concept is well established in QuranPS I need to clarify we do know of single cell eukaryotes
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Thanks huruf in that link I see a different interpretation.
Pointing at blood being that fluid ejected is certainly different, but that does not entail creation.
Furthermore blood and heart are formed when the blastocyst is already an embryo.
Meaning heart and blood are part of the development or apportioning of the embryo not origin.The origin of a human being is known to all as fertilization not cardiovascular development.
I thank Allah for showing me that topic because Wakas also shows a link from Quranmessage.com where they discuss this very topic.
Although we are certainly running off-topic now in this thread. I'd like to also point to this other possibility, which indicates that Arabic Lexicon essentially also give al-tarib meaning of female anatomy.
Hence clearing confusion of tarib meaning ribs, chest and highlighting the creation as a fluid ejected coming forth from between male anatomy(l-sulbi) and female anatomy(al-tarib).Take a look at it
http//quransmessage.com/articles/verse%2086-7%20FM3.htm -
The creation comprises all the stages. with firtilisation nothing is created, it is just that fertilisation, the creation is the whole thing till there is a new being with birth.
I must add that if one wre to follow the translations and interpretations given by most of those who purportedly explain the Qur'an there an inflation of semen in its pages, any liquid turns out to be semen, any drop or seeming drop turns out to be semen, the universe seems to be semen... I thin it is a bit overdone.
Salaam
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225 O people, if you are in doubt as to the resurrection, then We have created you from dirt,
then from a seed, then from an embryo, then from a fetus developed and undeveloped so that We make it clear to you.
We settle in the wombs what We wish to an appointed time, then We bring you out a child,
then you reach your maturity, and of you are those who will pass away,
and of you are those who are sent to an old age where he will not be able to learn any new knowledge
after what he already has. You see the land still, but when We send down the water to it,
it vibrates and grows, and it brings forth of every lovely pair. -
The creation comprises all the stages. with firtilisation nothing is created, it is just that fertilisation, the creation is the whole thing till there is a new being with birth.
I must add that if one wre to follow the translations and interpretations given by most of those who purportedly explain the Qur'an there an inflation of semen in its pages, any liquid turns out to be semen, any drop or seeming drop turns out to be semen, the universe seems to be semen... I thin it is a bit overdone.
Salaam
My late mum used to say, 'men has a one track mind'.
Unfortunately for wo men, men loves to see men dominating everything in this world, thus everywhere is see men.
A one track mind can't see the wisdom from the Quran, especially sectarian males where male dominance over female is a constitution, whilst the Quran says male and female are partners.
Btw, the article by khal was good.
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My late mum used to say, 'men has a one track mind'.
Unfortunately for wo men, men loves to see men dominating everything in this world, thus everywhere is see men.
A one track mind can't see the wisdom from the Quran, especially sectarian males where male dominance over female is a constitution, whilst the Quran says male and female are partners.
Btw, the article by khal was good.
But the article from quranmessage.com was also good. In fact, it was the opposite of sexist. Did you guys actually read it?
It is saying than rather to referring to one single gender sulbi refers to male while tarib as evidenced in Lane's Lexicon can refer to female anatomy.Can't get more 50-50 than that, can ya?
Also there is no evidence of Quran using main for blood folks...
That is a stretch folks...
If Allah wants to use the word blood al-dama He would do so.Also khal's interpretation eliminates the male counterpart as well, it is not much better than the conventional interpretation either.
It is assuming the mother is already pregnant and the fetus is entering second trimester, because the flow of blood to fetus only occurs after 10-12 weeks as you can see in this scientific paper .Ultimately it is up to each individual to reason but folks is this what you think our Lord is trying to illustrate for us as beginning of our creation?
A mother in her SECOND trimester pumping blood to the placenta of her fetus?Our parents were fashioned from clay after that their progeny came from the "horizontal mamba"
I think the latter understanding is fairly logicalDon't let countersexist fixations rather prevent you brothers and sisters from seeing the Wisdom of the Quran.
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But the article from quranmessage.com was also good. In fact, it was the opposite of sexist. Did you guys actually read it?
It is saying than rather to referring to one single gender sulbi refers to male while tarib as evidenced in Lane's Lexicon can refer to female anatomy.Can't get more 50-50 than that, can ya?
Also there is no evidence of Quran using main for blood folks...
That is a stretch folks...
If Allah wants to use the word blood al-dama He would do so.Also khal's interpretation eliminates the male counterpart as well, it is not much better than the conventional interpretation either.
It is assuming the mother is already pregnant and the fetus is entering second trimester, because the flow of blood to fetus only occurs after 10-12 weeks as you can see in this scientific paper .Ultimately it is up to each individual to reason but folks is this what you think our Lord is trying to illustrate for us as beginning of our creation?
A mother in her SECOND trimester pumping blood to the placenta of her fetus?Our parents were fashioned from clay after that their progeny came from the "horizontal mamba"
I think the latter understanding is fairly logicalDon't let countersexist fixations rather prevent you brothers and sisters from seeing the Wisdom of the Quran.
My thoughts on sulbi and tarib represents the elements from where humans come from in the procreation process, from sulbi you get the sperm and the egg, then the fetus settles in the womb to be developed from whatever tarib provides to the fetus. I'm not a doctor, forgive my vague description.
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Ido not think it is a question of 50-50. Genetically it is obviously fifty-figty, but a matter of all stages in creation, in creation of the species, and in the creation of each new umn beings which are two different things. I think i the inerpretations that we get usually handed down of he Qur'an both things get amalgamted and therere confused, but they are two diffrent things. And sometimes it may be that both may be refrred with elements that match both, but sometimes we confuse both. That is what I hinted also when I joked about the inflation of semen in interpretations of the Qur'an. No doubt semen is somewhere, but... there are other things, there may be many other things, but as soon as we hang the label semen or any other for that matter without weighing everything, we are closing our avenues for exploring and finding out all the possibilities that the qur'an opens for us.
The qur'an is very cleverly formulated, at leas that much is right in the reasoning of the 19ers.I am sure not te slightest dot in te Qur'an is there by chance or without its due weight and reason, but we have receivd interpretations where in fact we are told that anything can be anything, because the Qur'an does not seem to be precise and fully meaning.
Of course we ar not going to get everything right here and now, because if tose who came before us could not, we may get some things they did not but we are ot geoing to get everything, we are not the end of history like that man Kukuyama, or fukiyama says, we are just lin of history like others and we are lucky, thsoe who feel inclined to find out with objectiviy and truth, because it is something that really satisfies when you get even a small dot that we feel is the right one.
Salaam
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I see your points you guys.
But Uhm lets start a new thread or continue where this topic is more appropriate.
We should also try to Daraba, bring forth all the Ayaahs that are related to creation.
I think from memory I can recall many of them speak of Adamu's creation as beginning being fashioned from clay or black mud altered.
Then Adamu's progeny came from male and female, hence procreation.Therefore creation is of alchemy
clay, water and Ruh... I am assumingAs opposed to the jinn
plasma(heat, light,), water and RuhProcreation is of biology, embryology semen egg fertilization placenta embryo fetus development baby child
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I don't know how the current discussion relates to search for Muhammad. But the search for Muhammad continues as we read the Quran and do our best to meet its criterion and follow the best examples thereof. Perhaps we are getting closer to the real teachings that the Rasul gave when he was alive cause clearly majority has left the Quran for Harry Potter and the Art of War as many are living in fantasy or infamy.
All this research with regards to archaeology is only important if we hold to the past and all its compounded deceits and lies in HIStory. The Quran is also not a detail biology book but with enough details to evidence it was ahead of its time where knowledge can only come from the Creator. And that reminds of what was stated in the Quran, many that goes to heaven comes from earlier times and less from later times - what does that mean? Is it in percentage? Earlier times = less people = higher % against later time = more people = less %? Or it means literally? If it means literally, then how far from the Quran did the human race go? - certainly there are more ppl relying on the Quran or just more pretenders?
Row row row your boat gently down the stream.......
Salam.