Who Was the Pharoah of Moses
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Aye IMHO and Peace
if I were to disclose my most controversial views, I do not think you or anyone else on this forum will wish to be associated (at least publicly) with me ;D
Salaam
Everyone has the right to hold a view and a choice to share is with others or not, but I am sure you do not care if any of us would associate with you, as long as Allah(swt) is happy with your inner most views prbut only one possibility, either Abraham was from Mesopotamia, or from Yemen... so the stories are mutually exclusive...
The subject of this thread is Who Was the Pharoah of Moses, we can always start another thread Where was Mukaam e Ibrahim
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Salaam IMHO
...Would you say that King claims Pazuzu is deluded?Here is a reply from Ms King( hmm to Pazuzu)
susianapress says
November 18, 2011 at 546 pm
I read your blog postings and am so pleased that you are thinking, as Muslims should be thinking about what they are reading in the Quran. The Quran tells us where the real Pharaoh was, and you are correct, he was not in today?s Egypt. His civilization existed a millennium prior to the biblical chronology, and the ancient civilization that we find in today?s Egypt is just part of the extensive holdings of the pharaohs who existed in other parts of the Middle East during the early- to mid-third millennium BCE. The word ?Misr? was a reference to an urbanized settlement that was established initially as a military settlement. The roots of the word are in ancient Akkadian. The civilization of pharaohs during that era were conquerors and they had military outposts in various parts of the Asian continent, perhaps as far as the Indus Valley and Afghanistan. They persecuted the beni Isra?il in the location of Moses (real name Musa) because they feared their power and were afraid that the beni Isra?il, who were large in numbers, would one day overthrow their civilization, just as every conqueror fears the indigenous people he has subdued. Apparently, it had been foretold in a prophecy, but the tyrannical pharaoh of the Exodus story, refused to believe it. As the Quran makes clear, everything of the Pharaoh in question was destroyed, which included all his buildings that he constructed. I give the exact location of the Exodus, and show you the archaeological remains of the real pharaoh. Archaeologists simply have failed to connect the dots because they are limited in imagination (tunnel-vision), and they never took the legends of Middle Eastern people seriously. In every legend, there is a kernel of truth. Sadly, Muslims have not been reading their Quran carefully, and they were instructed to read from the cradle to the grave. They are not equipped to challenge the non-Islamic world because they don?t read much, and they don?t understand the era before the rise of Islam. They have, unfortunately, listened to Christian Arabs, who quite honestly, are completely clueless about their own history and are also afraid of their own loss of power. The Jews are no different. They actually believe that Moses was one of their people, but he wasn?t, and the ancient Hebrews were not limited to the Jews. Once again, the key is in terminology. The Jews were from Judaea, and they liked tracing their roots to the Benjaminites who settled in Palestine much later in history, long after the era of Moses. As the Quran states, the Jewish scribes took the stories of the prophets out of their correct location and chronology.It?s about time Muslims start to take archaeology more seriously. They regard archaeology as a science that enables them to attract tourists to their lands and therefore become tour guides. Very sad indeed.
I am sorry that I have not posted anything recently, but there is ample evidence of the location of the Exodus in my book. It was published in Arabic by Dar Tlass in Damascus in 2010(they forgot to add the reference pages and bibliography and forgot to update their website, so you won?t see it listed). My impressions are that the Syrians are not very interested in reading about religious history, so they are not reading the book. They obviously have other things on their minds right now. However, I am in the process of publishing my next book in the U.S. The publisher will probably be done within the next month or two. That one will rock the foundation of religious scholarship by the roots, because it will explain exactly who the Messiah ?Isa was and how he foretold the future arrival of the Prophet Muhammad. The proof will be very convincing and the evidence will be extensive. In the introduction of the book, I will summarize some of the facts that took me to the real location of the Exodus, so the readers will comprehend more fully who the Messiah was, and why he was not born in Palestine. I show evidence for the exact location of his birth and who his real followers were. If the scribes in Palestine during the mid-first century BCE lied about the Exodus, then why wouldn?t they lie about the Messiah? Heresay was very popular in the Near East under the beni Isra?il. They were prone to it, and they were all over the Fertile Crescent. That is why the final covenant was given to the Arabs of the lineage of Isma?il as the final rulers, and Palestinian Jerusalem was never to rise again. You mention Kamal Salibi in your blog as someone who challenged thinking. He saw things through Christian eyes, nonetheless, and I wouldn?t take what he wrote seriously. I have read his works, and I am not impressed with his evidence that is very speculative. I believe in hard evidence, like the evidence that took me to the real location of the Exodus. The real followers of the Messiah ?Isa and the Prophet Yahya described the Exodus in the same location that the evidence took me to, and that will be given in my upcoming book. I discovered that added bonus only recently, and incorporated it in my book.
Once my next book will be published, it will be available as an e-book, so it will be possible to download it from the publisher. Once the book is published, I will mention it in my blog, but I will also have a separate website for it. It will be available through Amazon and Barnes and Noble, as well as by the publisher
http//susianapress.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/introduction-to-this-blog/ask a Muslim Jinn who lived long enough with a lifespan that stretched to the time of Abraham the whole true story?
Maybe Jini is here to help lazy Ins yay
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Peace,
Would someone care to post real evidence instead of links to mindless rants and conjecture.
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refute Misr meant the land of Egypt in ancient Semitic languages
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refute Misr meant the land of Egypt and was understood as such in Arabic at time of revelation
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refute Misr meant the land of Eqypt in corresponds between Egypt king and neighbors Amarna letters
simply search mi-i-ri in TEXTS http//oracc.museum.upenn.edu/amarna/corpus
It appears on 119 different tablets/letters as KUR (land) Misri or LUGAL KUR (king land) Misri -
refute Sennacherib Prism Column 3 mentions Jerusalem
http//www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/meso/sennprism3.html
18 As for Hezekiah the Judahite, 19 who did not submit to my yoke forty-six of his strong, walled cities, as well as 20 the small towns in their area, 21 which were without number, by levelling with battering-rams 22 and by bringing up seige-engines, and by attacking and storming on foot, 23 by mines, tunnels, and breeches, I besieged and took them. 24 200,150 people, great and small, male and female, 25 horses, mules, asses, camels, 26 cattle and sheep without number, I brought away from them 27 and counted as spoil. (Hezekiah) himself, like a caged bird 28 I shut up in Jerusalem, his royal city. 29 I threw up earthworks against him? 30 the one coming out of the city-gate, I turned back to his misery. 31 His cities, which I had despoiled, I cut off from his land, and 32 to Mitinti, king of Ashdod, 33 Padi, king of Ekron, and Silli-b?l, 34 king of Gaza, I gave (them). And thus I diminished his land. 35 I added to the former tribute, 36 and I lad upon him the surrender of their land and imposts?gifts for my majesty. 37 As for Hezekiah, 38 the terrifying splendor of my majesty overcame him, and 39 the Arabs and his mercenary troops which he had brought in to strengthen 40 Jerusalem , his royal city, 41 deserted him. In addition to the thirty talents of gold and 42 eight hundred talents of silver, gems, antimony, 43 jewels, large carnelians, ivory-inlaid couches, 44 ivory-inlaid chairs, elephant hides, elephant tusks, 45 ebony, boxwood, all kinds of valuable treasures, 46 as well as his daughters, his harem, his male and female 47 musicians, which he had brought after me 48 to Nineveh, my royal city. To pay tribute 49 and to accept servitude, he dispatched his messengers.
- refute who ruled Yemen before Qur'an revelation and at which time they converted...
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean_img.htm
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/figs-stones/large/color_lg_jpeg/fig04_c_lg.jpg
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- refute who ruled Yemen before Qur'an revelation and at which time they converted...
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean_img.htm
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/figs-stones/large/color_lg_jpeg/fig04_c_lg.jpg
It was the black people of aksum (ethiopians) who ruled southern arabia peninsula region which is now called as Yemen...
And that's why the hatred and animosity of Yemenite Arabs majority towards the black people / ethiopian aksumite, commonly refered as "Al Akhdam" (The Servants) continues up until today. Their treatment of black / ethiopians ethnic group are far worse than what the jews isralites did to the arabs in Israel. But again... nobody paid any attention to their plight, except very few...
Documentary of their plight..
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3MqjbkwVEISalam / Peace
- refute who ruled Yemen before Qur'an revelation and at which time they converted...
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Peace IMHO,
"Maybe Jini is here to help lazy Ins"
I suppose you mean this as a joke, but I will be careful if in your shoes, unless you are a real Believer, jinns do not take lightly being treated with ridicule...
as for laziness, you do not know my circumstances... so the same here too...
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It was the black people of aksum (ethiopians) who ruled southern arabia peninsula region which is now called as Yemen...
And that's why the hatred and animosity of Yemenite Arabs majority towards the black people / ethiopian aksumite, commonly refered as "Al Akhdam" (The Servants) continues up until today. Their treatment of black / ethiopians ethnic group are far worse than what the jews isralites did to the arabs in Israel. But again... nobody paid any attention to their plight, except very few...Salaam Jafar
Yes it's an outrage the way some who call themselves Muslims treat black people, but you seem to be very partial to those murderous landgrabbers,who call their stolen land Eretz Yisroel. One injustice from one people does not cancel the oppression of a different people and Allah (swt) says in Aal-e-`Imran Chapter 3 Verse 119"O ye who believe! take not others than your own people as intimate friends; they will not fail to corrupt you. They love to see you in trouble. Hatred has already shown itself through the utterances of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still. We have made clear to you Our commandments, if you will understand."
He further cautions us in Al-Nisa' Chapter 4 Verse 140
Those who take disbelievers for friends rather than believers. Do they seek honour at their hands? Then let them remember that all honour belongs to Allah.and He instructs us in Al-Nisa' Chapter 4 Verse 136
O ye who believe! be strict in observing justice, and be witnesses for Allah, even though it be against yourselves or against parents and kindred. Whether he be rich or poor, Allah is more regardful of them both than you are. Therefore follow not low desires so that you may be able to act equitably. And if you conceal the truth or evade it, then remember that Allah is well aware of what you do. -
Peace IMHO,
"Maybe Jini is here to help lazy Ins"
I suppose you mean this as a joke, but I will be careful if in your shoes, unless you are a real Believer, jinns do not take lightly being treated with ridicule...
as for laziness, you do not know my circumstances... so the same here too...
Salaam bro Nabil
No!!! I did not call YOU lazy! I was referring to all those, who have given up hope on human beings to do the research and find out the truth.
As for joking about Jinns, I believe, if they can understand the Quran and are able to differentiate between believers and non believers, so can they sense some lighthearted humour.
Why on earth would I ridicule Allah's creatons ) -
And that's why the hatred and animosity of Yemenite Arabs majority towards the black people / ethiopian aksumite, commonly refered as "Al Akhdam" (The Servants) continues up until today. Their treatment of black / ethiopians ethnic group are far worse than what the jews isralites did to the arabs in Israel. But again... nobody paid any attention to their plight, except very few...
Documentary of their plight..
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3MqjbkwVEISalam / Peace
Salaam
Why don't you start a new thread those who do far worse than what the Zionists did/do to the arabs in Israel.
It will benefit all to see how many nations and tribes are commiting atrocities and who backs those nations and who finance and support them and how we humans can persuade UN to uphold human rights.
As for this thread it is a quest for the truth, so please do not try to tarnish and divert it with your politics.
peace -
Peace,
Would someone care to post real evidence instead of links to mindless rants and conjecture.
susianapress says
November 20, 2011 at 623 am
I would recommend that you read, as a starter, ?The Bible Unearthed? by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman published in 2001. They are Israeli archaeologists, and they prove that the Exodus could not have happened anywhere in Sinai..
You should also read the 1997 book titled the ?Exodus, The Egyptian Evidence? by Ernest Frerichs and Leonard Lesko, eds. The book has the writings of the various scholars who examined all the evidence and they too obliterate the Exodus from Egypt story. All the well known and most respected archaeologists have accepted the story as a fabrication. Anyone reading Biblical Archaeology magazine would realize that honest scholars have now come to terms with the fact that the Bible distorted the epic of the Israelites. Unfortunately, it is evangelical Christianity and the orthodox Jews who have had difficulty accepting the discoveries.
http//susianapress.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/introduction-to-this-blog/
( ( ( ( (Thus was the Truth vindicated and that which they were doing was made vain. (11 Thus were they there defeated and brought low. (119) And the wizards fell down prostrate, (120) Crying We believe in the Lord of the Worlds, (121) The Lord of Moses and Aaron.
hail -
susianapress says
November 20, 2011 at 623 am
I would recommend that you read, as a starter, ?The Bible Unearthed? by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman published in 2001. They are Israeli archaeologists, and they prove that the Exodus could not have happened anywhere in Sinai..Peace IMHO,
Who cares if they are Israeli or not. I posted for you hard evidence and asked you to stay on topic refute my above last post or to post specific evidence which you find compelling not for links to bible, books, and internet rants.
You should also read the 1997 book titled the ?Exodus, The Egyptian Evidence? by Ernest Frerichs and Leonard Lesko, eds. The book has the writings of the various scholars who examined all the evidence and they too obliterate the Exodus from Egypt story. All the well known and most respected archaeologists have accepted the story as a fabrication. Anyone reading Biblical Archaeology magazine would realize that honest scholars have now come to terms with the fact that the Bible distorted the epic of the Israelites. Unfortunately, it is evangelical Christianity and the orthodox Jews who have had difficulty accepting the discoveries.
http//susianapress.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/introduction-to-this-blog/Again, post evidence which is most compelling to you (one or two of their best examples will suffice) not rants by Margaret King who is not here to defend herself nor can you defend her information-less blog or claim "ALL" archaeologists have accepted the story as fabrication -- the Amarna letters and Sennacherib Prism proves them wrong likewise the thread is about everything revolving around Yemen which is clearly been proven false by the non evidence and evidence to the contrary. If you want to start a new thread saying events happened elsewhere like Iraq then do so.
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Peace IMHO,
Who cares if they are Israeli or not. I posted for you hard evidence and asked you to stay on topic refute my above last post or to post specific evidence which you find compelling not for links to bible, books, and internet rants.
Again, post evidence which is most compelling to you (one or two of their best examples will suffice) not rants by Margaret King who is not here to defend herself nor can you defend her information-less blog or claim "ALL" archaeologists have accepted the story as fabrication -- the Amarna letters and Sennacherib Prism proves them wrong likewise the thread is about everything revolving around Yemen which is clearly been proven false by the non evidence and evidence to the contrary. If you want to start a new thread saying events happened elsewhere like Iraq then do so.
Salaam
The thread Who Was the Pharoah of Moses
According to Pazuzu he was from Yemen, but one thing is certain the current Egypt is not Msr, as the Qur'an says what ever Pharoah built was destroyed and none left standing(not exact words)and we all know the pyramids are still standing and that's how I refute your assertion and that's not ranting. peace -
Salaam
The thread Who Was the Pharoah of Moses
According to Pazuzu he was from Yemen, but one thing is certain the current Egypt is not Msr, as the Qur'an says what ever Pharoah built was destroyed and none left standing(not exact words)and we all know the pyramids are still standing and that's how I refute your assertion and that's not ranting. peaceVerse please.
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Verse please.
7137
And We made a people, considered weak (and of no account), inheritors of lands in both East and West lands whereon We sent down Our blessings. The fair promise of thy Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel, because they had patience and constancy, and We levelled to the ground the great works and fine buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected
What could be greater work than Prymids ?
peace -
7137
And We made a people, considered weak (and of no account), inheritors of lands in both East and West lands whereon We sent down Our blessings. The fair promise of thy Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel, because they had patience and constancy, and We levelled to the ground the great works and fine buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected
What could be greater work than Prymids ?
peacePeace IMHO,
"the great works and fine buildings" -- which book are you reading?
Read carefully cross-examine each word in context of Qur?an not according to Margret et al which the penalty for spreading falsity is extremely severe and once made clear one must be quick to admit an error not forget about it and leave it spread to others without consequences unless you seriously believe verse is about buildings and materials and that during the chase they also had all their "fine buildings" and pyramids (they are not sure which kings are responsible) along with them for the ride and everything was destroyed in the drowning?
7136 so We took retribution from them so We drowned them in the flood water they are/have rejected in our signs and they were from it negligent
7137 and We bequeathed the people the ones who they were considered weak eastern the earth/land and the western of it the one We blessed in it and will be fulfilled word your Lord the good on children Isreal in what they were patient and We destroyed what was doing Pharaoh and his nation and what they were constructing
16112 shows The God example a town it was safe comforting coming to it its livelihood freely from each place so it denied in blessings The God so made it taste The God to/of garment the hunger and the fear in what they were doing (i.e. their works/deeds)
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Peace IMHO,
Read carefully cross-examine each word in context of Qur?an not according to Margret et al which the penalty for spreading falsity is extremely severe and once made clear one must be quick to admit an error not forget about it and leave it spread to others without consequences unless you seriously believe verse is about construction and that during the chase they also had all their buildings and pyramids (they are not sure which kings are responsible) along with them for the ride and everything was destroyed in the drowning?
7136 so We took retribution from them so We drowned them in the flood water they are/have rejected in our signs and they were from it negligent
7137 and We bequeathed the people the ones who they were considered weak eastern the earth/land and the western of it the one We blessed in it and will be fulfilled word your Lord the good on children Isreal in what they were patient and We destroyed what was doing Pharaoh and his nation and what they were constructing
16112 shows The God example a town it was safe comforting coming to it its livelihood freely from each place so it denied in blessings The God so made it taste The God to/of garment the hunger and the fear in what they were doing (i.e. their works/deeds)
Salaam bro Noon
This was discussed in another thread too and I knew that you would come up with your particular explanation to justify what you hold dear to your heart and, just as I did not agree with you that the man from Pharoah's people was just a believer, I do not agree with you interpretation now. I am sorry.
Read carefylly before spreading wrong nformation, the Qur'an does not say that the building of Pharoah were destroyed during the chase. peace -
Salaam bro Noon
This was discussed in another thread too and I knew that you would come up with your particular explanation to justify what you hold dear to your heart and, just as I did not agree with you that the man from Pharoah's people was just a believer, I do not agree with you interpretation now. I am sorry.
Read carefylly before spreading wrong nformation, the Qur'an does not say that the building of Pharoah were destroyed during the chase. peaceSalaam IMHO,
Please then translate exactly this last part in context of Qur'an which word is fine buildings and pyramids?
7136 so We took retribution from them so We drowned them in the flood water they are/have rejected in our signs and they were from it negligent
7137 ... and We destroyed what was doing Pharaoh and his nation and what they were constructing
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Salaam IMHO,
Please then translate exactly this last part in context of Qur'an which word is fine buildings and pyramids?
7136 so We took retribution from them so We drowned them in the flood water they are/have rejected in our signs and they were from it negligent
7137 ... and We destroyed what was doing Pharaoh and his nation and what they were constructing
I did not put Pyramids in the translation, but your distorted translation makes no sense if you translate as doing. Destroyed doings??? You can destroy a building or a plan; not an action.
Here means built NOT doing!
I copy/pasted the translation and, yes it should not have said 'fine buildings' but 'what Fir3oun built'.
peace -
7137 ... and We destroyed what was doing Pharaoh and his nation and what they were constructing
Also it's interesting to note that the ayat says with the death of Fir3oun wha the built was destroyed and 'what his nation was constructing; in other words even the process of building after him was destroyed!
hmm