I have a few questions I am a Christian by way ?
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But we are SLAVES to Allah, in this case is it still a big sin?
This question puzzled me from my sister's husband. If slavery is so evil then why are you to call yourselfs God's slaves? I was stumped on this. He asked about the slavery issue in Qu'ran, meanwhile he is a born again.. HELLO.. read the bible. Anyway the info you guys pointed to did help untill after I explained how much a sin slavery was then he hit me with that. Any help?? I see him on Thanksgiving, I am SURE it will come up.
We're not slaves, Allah is omnipotent, He doesn't need any slave. The word is servant. We "serve" him by being righteous because He wanted to give us a chance, and there's no such thing as a sin. There's good deed and bad deed.
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Slavery is sinful only AMONG HUMANS. If we are called servants of God that should not imply that slavery is not a sin since God is nothing like us. God is our Lord and Master. He created us so basically he owns us. We are all servants to him whether we like it or not.
Peace,
Kevin
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We're not slaves, Allah is omnipotent, He doesn't need any slave. The word is servant. We "serve" him by being righteous because He wanted to give us a chance, and there's no such thing as a sin. There's good deed and bad deed.
In essence I do agree that God doesn't need anything from us since God is doing everything(since the worlds run by God's law)...
Sura 4126 To GOD belongs everything in the heavens, and the earth. GOD is in full control of all things
Sura 817 It was not you who killed them. GOD is the One who killed them. It was not you who threw when you threw; GOD is the One who threw. But He thus gives the believers a chance to earn a lot of credit. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient. (817)
But we are still slaves/servants to God. Slaves here doesn't mean that we do stuff for God but rather slaves here means that he OWNS us.
Sura 4126 To GOD belongs everything in the heavens, and the earth. GOD is in full control of all things
Peace,
Kevin
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Thanks )
I am sure it had to do with the translation he was picking from as well. I think his whole issue the way I preceived it was if slavery is so bad and Allah wants to "abolish" it then why is doing the same thing. Besides he is anti-islam so he will pick ANYTHING!
I agree with you guys it means to OWN. We do submit but I also prefer the term servant over slave. Save just has negativity around it.
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Not easy doesn't mean impossible. It seems that you do realized that there are weaknesses in Quran.
The slavery issue is one of the Quran weaknesses. It will place its believer with a noble heart in dilemma because good people dissaprove slavery but Quran does not classified it as 'haram'. However, not many Muslim know about this as to them Islam is a religion that free human from any form of slavery and they assumed Quran had put slavery to stop. Quran Alone believer knew this very well that slavery is not 'haram' as they study Quran indepth (word by word, line by line) but it is hard for them to admit.
482 Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.
Not to 'haram' the slavery is discrepancy to humanity feeling which had been the 'fitrah' of every human being. Let's carefully consider the Quran and accept the challenge made by this verse. If not much discrepancy to be found, one or two are inside Quran.
Sacred Months is another discrepancy in Quran. Quran claimed that it had explained in detail whatever things that god want human to practice per below verse.
6114 Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt
However for Sacred Months case, the names of the 4 sacred months are not mentioned in Quran and there is no way for Quran Alone believers to know what months are the sacred months. There are major dos and don'ts during these sacred months and please refer to the following link for verses related to Sacred Months.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603158.0
The names of these months can only be found in 'hadith' and this suggests that Quran cannot stand by its own. This is a good news for those who addicted to 'hadith' since Quran need those tales to complete or perfect it.
29.48 And you did not recite before it any book, nor did you transcribe one with your right hand, for then could those who say untrue things have doubted.
Here the Koran tells us that if Muhammad was known to be a biblical scholar, his enemies would have had stronger reason to doubt. But of course the people of Mecca knew him and they knew he was never a person who was known or seen to have had some kind of biblical knowledge. Often they ascribed the Koran either to magic or some other figure they claimed supplied Muhamamd with the Koranic material.
This is why i say your critique carries no water. Your argument is basically "why did not the Koran explicitly abolish slavery". yet the Koran did not explicitly supported or encouraged slavery. We are told in the Koran
89-96. And We have explained to man, in this Qur'an, every kind of similitude yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude! They say "We shall not believe in thee, until thou cause a spring to gush forth for us from the earth,"Or (until) thou have a garden of date trees and vines, and cause rivers to gush forth in their midst, carrying abundant water;"Or thou cause the sky to fall in pieces, as thou sayest (will happen), against us; or thou bring Allah and the angels before (us) face to face "Or thou have a house adorned with gold, or thou mount a ladder right into the skies. No, we shall not even believe in thy mounting until thou send down to us a book that we could read." Say "Glory to my Lord! Am I aught but a man,- an apostle?" What kept men back from belief when Guidance came to them, was nothing but this they said, "Has Allah sent a man (like us) to be (His) Messenger." Say, "If there were settled, on earth, angels walking about in peace and quiet, We should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for an apostle." Say "Enough is Allah for a witness between me and you for He is well acquainted with His servants, and He sees (all things).
Here we are told that the pagans wanted to know why Muhamamd did not have a sign of some sort to show that he was indeed a messenger of God. They asked why is this messenger like anybody else and why does he not have visible signs.
This was their critique. And I am sure if you were there youy would have asked the same thing. Yet we know from the past scriptures that many prophets (Jesus) were given such signs and yet the people did not believe.
So my answer to you is the same as the first verse I quoted in this post of mine.
"if the Koran did explicitly support slavery and ordered us to have slaves and encouraged us to to do so, then you would have a strong argument. But you don't.
'He it is who has sent down to thee the Book in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the book others are allegorical, that is those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the book; the whole of it is from our Lord;" and none will grasp the message except men of understanding' (Al-Qur'an 3 7).
So the Quran often uses its verses as a bait, to see what the disbelievers and hypocrites will do. How they will spin it and what kind of agenda they have. But they are not able to do so with any explicit verses so they run to the bait and spin. Without explicit verses, they really have nothing. So they tried to solve this problem by bringing forth explicit hadiths to support their agenda. This explains why the Koran tends to be vague about certain issues. A Quranist simply has to accept these verses as they are without speculating and then looking at the more established verses to understand his faith.
At the end of the day, a Koranic state will have to find some justification for slavery if it was to legalize it. To own someone you need the authority to do so. Without any explicit verses to back that up and without being able to establish such authority this is going to be a hard sell indeed. That is what the Sunnah came for, to establish such authority. Authority that you will not find in the Koran. All you will find from the Koran is a recognition that slavery existed in Muhammad's time as it did with Moses's time and even Joseph's time. Not much oygen there.
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But we are SLAVES to Allah, in this case is it still a big sin?
This question puzzled me from my sister's husband. If slavery is so evil then why are you to call yourselfs God's slaves? I was stumped on this. He asked about the slavery issue in Qu'ran, meanwhile he is a born again.. HELLO.. read the bible. Anyway the info you guys pointed to did help untill after I explained how much a sin slavery was then he hit me with that. Any help?? I see him on Thanksgiving, I am SURE it will come up.
Peace --
English word "slave" and allowing one human to enslave/possess another comes from bible not Qur'an.
http//bible.cc/search.php?q=slave
1930 said indeed I devotee/servant The God He gave me the book and made me a prophet
2432 and marry the single from you and the righteous from devotees/servants among you and devotees/handmaidens among you if they are poor enriches them The God from His bounty and The God Encompassing Knowing
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29.48 And you did not recite before it any book, nor did you transcribe one with your right hand, for then could those who say untrue things have doubted.
Here the Koran tells us that if Muhammad was known to be a biblical scholar, his enemies would have had stronger reason to doubt. But of course the people of Mecca knew him and they knew he was never a person who was known or seen to have had some kind of biblical knowledge. Often they ascribed the Koran either to magic or some other figure they claimed supplied Muhamamd with the Koranic material.
This is why i say your critique carries no water. Your argument is basically "why did not the Koran explicitly abolish slavery". yet the Koran did not explicitly supported or encouraged slavery. We are told in the Koran
89-96. And We have explained to man, in this Qur'an, every kind of similitude yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude! They say "We shall not believe in thee, until thou cause a spring to gush forth for us from the earth,"Or (until) thou have a garden of date trees and vines, and cause rivers to gush forth in their midst, carrying abundant water;"Or thou cause the sky to fall in pieces, as thou sayest (will happen), against us; or thou bring Allah and the angels before (us) face to face "Or thou have a house adorned with gold, or thou mount a ladder right into the skies. No, we shall not even believe in thy mounting until thou send down to us a book that we could read." Say "Glory to my Lord! Am I aught but a man,- an apostle?" What kept men back from belief when Guidance came to them, was nothing but this they said, "Has Allah sent a man (like us) to be (His) Messenger." Say, "If there were settled, on earth, angels walking about in peace and quiet, We should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for an apostle." Say "Enough is Allah for a witness between me and you for He is well acquainted with His servants, and He sees (all things).
Here we are told that the pagans wanted to know why Muhamamd did not have a sign of some sort to show that he was indeed a messenger of God. They asked why is this messenger like anybody else and why does he not have visible signs.
This was their critique. And I am sure if you were there youy would have asked the same thing. Yet we know from the past scriptures that many prophets (Jesus) were given such signs and yet the people did not believe.
So my answer to you is the same as the first verse I quoted in this post of mine.
"if the Koran did explicitly support slavery and ordered us to have slaves and encouraged us to to do so, then you would have a strong argument. But you don't.
'He it is who has sent down to thee the Book in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the book others are allegorical, that is those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the book; the whole of it is from our Lord;" and none will grasp the message except men of understanding' (Al-Qur'an 3 7).
So the Quran often uses its verses as a bait, to see what the disbelievers and hypocrites will do. How they will spin it and what kind of agenda they have. But they are not able to do so with any explicit verses so they run to the bait and spin. Without explicit verses, they really have nothing. So they tried to solve this problem by bringing forth explicit hadiths to support their agenda. This explains why the Koran tends to be vague about certain issues. A Quranist simply has to accept these verses as they are without speculating and then looking at the more established verses to understand his faith.
At the end of the day, a Koranic state will have to find some justification for slavery if it was to legalize it. To own someone you need the authority to do so. Without any explicit verses to back that up and without being able to establish such authority this is going to be a hard sell indeed. That is what the Sunnah came for, to establish such authority. Authority that you will not find in the Koran. All you will find from the Koran is a recognition that slavery existed in Muhammad's time as it did with Moses's time and even Joseph's time. Not much oygen there.
Before I proceed please answer this simple question; Does Quran have laws for slave(s)? , and share with me the English translation of Quran verses related to slavery that you believe in.
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Before I proceed please answer this simple question; Does Quran have laws for slave(s)? , and share with me the English translation of Quran verses related to slavery that you believe in.
{Al Nisa. 92)
It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood-money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the blood-money must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months. A penance from Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.
{.Al Maida.89)
Allah will not take you to task for that which is unintentional in your oaths, but He will take you to task for the oaths which ye swear in earnest. The expiation thereof is the feeding of ten of the needy with the average of that wherewith ye feed your own folk, or the clothing of them, or the liberation of a slave, and for him who findeth not (the wherewithal to do so) then a three days' fast. This is the expiation of your oaths when ye have sworn; and keep your oaths. Thus Allah expoundeth unto you His revelations in order that ye may give thanks.
{. Amujadilla.3 )
Those who put away their wives (by saying they are as their mothers) and afterward would go back on that which they have said, (the penalty) in that case (is) the freeing of a slave before they touch one another. Unto this ye are exhorted; and Allah is Informed of what ye do.
(Al Baqara. {221
Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember
This is what I know. So as you can see there is not much oxygen. Unless you include MMA, but then again as can be seen here MMA is not clear at all. I still believe its a concubine but i could be wrong of course.
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This is what I know. So as you can see there is not much oxygen. Unless you include MMA, but then again as can be seen here MMA is not clear at all. I still believe its a concubine but i could be wrong of course.
You can understand 6,236 verses in Quran and I don't think you can't understand my quote which consists of 31 words only.
Before I proceed please answer this simple question; Does Quran have laws for slave(s)? , and share with me the English translation of Quran verses related to slavery that you believe in.
Your action similar with the people in below verse.
524 They said "O Moses, we will never enter it as long as they are in it, so go you and your Lord and fight, we will stay right here!"
You don't want to answer my question and leave it to god to do it by giving the translation for the verses related to slave.
You don't dare to answer my question - Does Quran have laws for slave(s)? - because you know that if there is a law constituted for slave in Quran then slavery is recognized.
This is the act of a c----d.
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You can understand 6,236 verses in Quran and I don't think you can't understand my quote which consists of 31 words only.
Your action similar with the people in below verse.
524 They said "O Moses, we will never enter it as long as they are in it, so go you and your Lord and fight, we will stay right here!"
You don't want to answer my question and leave it to god to do it by giving the translation for the verses related to slave.
You don't dare to answer my question - Does Quran have laws for slave(s)? - because you know that if there is a law constituted for slave in Quran then slavery is recognized.
This is the act of a c----d.
There are lots of things in the Koran I don't understand. What I am saying is your critique looks to me as someone trying to find anything to critique. But you are not able to find something concrete. WE know slavery existed in the Americas with abundance. It was legally codified. It was also common in Judaic law and Islamic law and both these religions had legalized slavery. Europeans were engaged in the biggest slave trade in history and many of the European slave trade were operated by Jewish families.
But you can not find anything in the Koran. So that is why i said there is not much oxygen for you. You look desperate.
I think what happened is that you probably believed what these Islamic sects told you about Islam and the Koran. You came here very confident. You are not the only one. I have seen some come here and try to critique. It took them some time before they realized this is not Sunni/Shia Islam or Pharisaic Judaism or the Christian Church.
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There are lots of things in the Koran I don't understand. What I am saying is your critique looks to me as someone trying to find anything to critique. But you are not able to find something concrete. WE know slavery existed in the Americas with abundance. It was legally codified. It was also common in Judaic law and Islamic law and both these religions had legalized slavery. Europeans were engaged in the biggest slave trade in history and many of the European slave trade were operated by Jewish families.
But you can not find anything in the Koran. So that is why i said there is not much oxygen for you. You look desperate.
I think what happened is that you probably believed what these Islamic sects told you about Islam and the Koran. You came here very confident. You are not the only one. I have seen some come here and try to critique. It took them some time before they realized this is not Sunni/Shia Islam or Pharisaic Judaism or the Christian Church.
Salamun alaikum Bigmo,
I feel regret on the remark a made below.
This is the act of a c----d.
GOD does not taught me to be rude and making the above remark is totally not acceptable not just to GOD but to me also. I don't like others to make such a bad remark to me and I should not make such remark to others also
Please accept my sincere apology.