"Hebrew", the Children of Israel, and the Semitic Migrations
-
Noon dhe plume, peace...
It seems you are not very good at reading maps... now go back to the map of Arabia, and think about the different locations, and the people living in them... tribes can also be defined by the territory they predominantly live into (along with lineage)...
The area where Far'3un and his clan lived is not the same area as where the non Hebrews lived... when you cross to the Asir region, you become a Hebrew... we do not know precisely how linked they were by lineage, but certainly by status, the Hebrews (outsiders) were considered of lower class... that pretty much defines two castes/clans to me...
Of those "Hebrews" there was a Monotheist named Abraham, of special status with Allah who promised him that his progeny will be very numerous...
Abraham managed to marry into a specific family of Asir, the Fir'3un family / clan... Their members were a ruling family, and ruled over Misrim... whoever they were, they were not from Abraham's lineage...
Now you can carry on extrapolating from pazuzu's story flow, which in my view has been pretty tight up to now...
I have a little element of contention, and it does not have any destructive effect on the edifice, so I leave it until the end as it might be clarified, and unlike you, will not be rude and make it an issue to disturb the flow of what I think is an important very credible narrative...
and I speak as a potential (being careful, despite my genealogical family trees - mother and father) descendant of Mohammed, and descendant of Dahyya Kahina Jewess Queen of the Aures... so this information interests me, as maybe it will prove or disprove that for me.... -
Thank you Pazuzu! bravo
Finally, little by little, thanks to your elucidations, The Qur'an becomes more and more clear and understandable to us who read it only in translations...
-
Peace All,
I would also like to thanks Pazuzu for his passion on this subject matter.
Been looking all this while about Bani Israel and its relation to prophet Mohammad. This is the best logical explanation i ever had.
Also would like to see more to come to challenge Pazuzu, like NDPlume so that this narration are more refine and accurate.
Thanks again Pazuzu for Sharing and Also NDP for polishing handshake
Peace.
-
I have not verified all the details that come into play in the threads posted by Pazuzu concerning the narratives and references of the Qur'an concerning previous prophets, but for me there is a macrologic which no matter how much details may be adjusted or not adjusted, that makes what is put forward in those threads much more in conformity with Qur'an and its logic than all the stories that we have been fed previously.
Qur'an says that God sent warners to all peoples, not just to one people. Opposite Christianity, which needs of a narrative that announces the birth of the Saviour, that is Jesus Christ, muslims as explained in the Qur'an are in no need whatsoever that a certain person be born anywhere so that we can be forgiven, and if that person is not born we are not forgiven. Also muslims do not have to belong to special people with a "special relationship" (more special than others so that the preference in revelation would explain it) with God.
So why would Qur'an spend so much of the book telling stories of the prohets of a particular people who are not the Prophet's people and do not have all that much to do with Him or his people. Why not expound about the warners of China or Australia or Japan or the romans or the greeks or the Egyptians, more at hand, or the Amerindians. That those people went astray does not matter, bani Israil, what has been commonly undrstood by that, also went astray. But if those people were the Prophet's people or those close to him, part of his environment, then it does make all sense.
Otherwise the only reason to give them special treatment and to refer to them without much introduction or preamlbe would be that God thought that at a given time all peoples in the world would be submerged and brainwashed into the stories of the christians and the yahud. Therefore that we would take those stories for granted.
I do not take seriously the second possibility.
There are more reasons for me to take very seriously and respect what Pazuzu has put forward, and I see that, however shocking it may be for some people to be told that the comings and goings of christians or yahudi are no more important nor consequential than those of other people, nor less of course, archeology is starting to look more soberly into the ground and not to take for granted what has been taken unquestioningly up to now trying to fit findings into biblical narrative rather than the opposite.
I think that we may be at the beginning of a great "revolution".
Let us hope and pray that the Imperials do not blow everything back to the stone age.
Salaam
-
I think that we may be at the beginning of a great "revolution".
Let us hope and pray that the Imperials do not blow everything back to the stone age.Salaam
Salaam Huruf
I too get this feeling that he world is at a turning point and earth will soon reveal its secrets. I'm conviced that the imperialists will find them helpless when things start to turn around, but it won't be easy and I pray that believers come out of it winners.
peace -
Salaam
Pazuzu saidThat article is stating that Far3oun's people, as well as Hagar, wife of Abraham before them, were MUSRI, not MISRI.
confused According to this theory, Agar, Sarai's handmaid (Gen., xvi, 1), was not Misrite or Egyptian, but Musrite, i.e. from Musri, in northern Arabia. Abraham (Gen., xii, 10) did not go down into Misraim, or Egypt, where he is said to have received from the Pharaoh a gift of menservants and handmaids, but into Misrim, or Musri, in northern Arabia. Joseph, when bought by the Ismaelites, or Madianites, i.e. Arabs, was not brought into Egypt (Misraim), but to Musri, or Misrim, in north Arabia, which was the home of the Madianites.
http//oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Arabia
I highlighted it so we can see different spellings
peace -
Pazuzu saidThat article is stating that Far3oun's people, as well as Hagar, wife of Abraham before them, were MUSRI, not MISRI.
According to this theory, Agar, Sarai's handmaid (Gen., xvi, 1), was not Misrite or Egyptian, but Musrite, i.e. from Musri, in northern Arabia. Abraham (Gen., xii, 10) did not go down into Misraim, or Egypt, where he is said to have received from the Pharaoh a gift of menservants and handmaids, but into Misrim, or Musri, in northern Arabia. Joseph, when bought by the Ismaelites, or Madianites, i.e. Arabs, was not brought into Egypt (Misraim), but to Musri, or Misrim, in north Arabia, which was the home of the Madianites.
http//oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Arabia
I highlighted it so we can see different spellingsThat's not entirely accurate. The article is showing that Arabia was the source of all Semitic peoples, and disproving that MSR = Egypt. However, the location they placed Abraham in is too far to the north. Furthermore, there is absolutely no proof that Madian (or Midian, as some pronouce it) is where it is thought to be.
Some believe it is in Sudan, others say the Bible is not clear as to the location.
It's all a bunch of conjecture.
Dear IMHO, please pay close attention to this
{And to Midyan was their brother Shu'ayb, he said "My people, serve Allah, you have no god besides Him, and do not give short in the measure and the weight. I see you in prosperity, and I fear for you the retribution of a day that is surrounding * And my people, give full in the measure and the weight equitably, and do not hold back from the people what is theirs, and do not roam the land corrupting * What will remain for you with Allah is far better if you are believers. And I am not a guardian over you *They said "O Shu'ayb, does your salat order you that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? It seems only you are the compassionate, the wise!" * He said "O my people, do you see that if I am on clear evidence from my Rabb, and He has provided me with good provision from Him, then I would not want to contradict by doing what I am prohibiting you from. I only want to make right what I can, and my guidance is only with Allah. In Him I place my trust, and to Him I repent." * "And my people, let not your hatred towards me incriminate you that you suffer the fate of what afflicted the people of Noah, or the people of Hud, or the people of Saleh; and the people of Lot were not far off from you."}....
It appears from the above verses that the Madyanites were expert traders, who "cheated in the scales and measure", so Allah was reprimanding them through His messenger Shuai'b. The last verse says clearly that the people to whom Hud , Saleh and Lot were sent were not far from Midyan. There is absolutely ZERO proof that the towns of Sodom and Ghomorrah, are anywhere in or near the Dead Sea. Archeologists have combed every inch of that sea, and found nothing there. The Old Testament says that the people of Lot were destroyed by a rain of fire and sulphur. The Quran also expands this, and mentions a rain of "cooked clay". Can this be anything other than a volcanic eruption? Show me were there are volcanic peaks in the Jordan/Palestine area?
The funny thing is that you read about Russian scientists who wanted to DIVE down to the bottom of the Dead Sea to fing teh remains of Lot's town rotfl The yare wasting their time and money for nothing. The Quran clearly says that the remains of Lot's town were left as a CLEAR SIGN, and that the people of Muhamad passed by it night and day. How can it be at the bottom of a sea??
This is the delusion I have been devoting all these threads to expose. The LIE which claims that "The Levant was the Land of the Prophets". Have we found any proof of the prophets in the Levant??
Search your soul for the answer.
I have one more post to make here, then I will start a new thread "In the Footsteps of the Patriarch"., where I will reveal to you exactly where the people of Ad , Thamud, and Lot were. And from that, you will deduce where Midian was. I will also reveal just who the Msrim are, and put an end to this puzzle once and for all.
Also, concerning the issue of tribes and clans A tribe is actually a conglomeration of clans. For example, the Tribe of Quraysh encompased many clans, among them the clan of Bani Hashem.
Likewise, the Tribe of Israel eventually contained 12 clans.Peace...
-
The last verse says clearly that the people to whom Hud , Saleh and Lot were sent were not far from Midyan.
Who is he who has said this?
Shoaib alahissalam did not say this.
I dont know why people in their pasion to support stupid conjectural gossips of other people go to the extent of distorting and adding words which were never stated by anyone and quoted in Qur'aam. What Shoaib alahissalam said was this;
-
Which organization has made this rather stupid claim?
Salaam
This is not stupid claim I too have seen a documentary in wich an Isreali team, who beleived that degree of salt in the Dead Sea could be due to a hail of Sodium chloride. They searced underwater for any sign of Lut's civilization as well as for the lost Ark and ( nope
Since it was a documentary on Britis TV I do not have a link maybe bro Pazuzu can give us a link to studies done on this subject.
peace -
Who is he who has said this?
Shoaib alahissalam did not say this.
I dont know why people in their pasion to support stupid conjectural gossips of other people go to the extent of distorting and adding words which were never stated by anyone and quoted in Qur'aam. What Shoaib alahissalam said was this;
Salaam
Calm down Mazher here the explaination
And to Midyan was their brother Shu'ayb.....that you suffer the fate of what afflicted the people of Noah, or the people of Hud, or the people of Saleh; and the people of Lot were not far off from you."}.... = The last verse says clearly that the people to whom Hud , Saleh and Lot were sent were not far from Midyan
For furhter confirmation Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re Ayah Of The Day
? on November 21, 2011, 011454 PM
@ Pazuzu
Thank you for your reply. I understand all your posts will finally lead us to the location of prophet Mohamud. Anxiously waiting for that!
Jazakallah Khair -
Peace,
and why would Messenger Shuayb (P) talk to his community about people they have no emotional link to,
after all he is trying to appeal to them to be wary of their fate, and why should they feel anything to people they know nothing about, or do not feel any closeness to...
psychologically it would not make sense, it is like warning them about the fate of the South American Aztecs (America was not probably yet discovered) or better of the fate of another species (neanderthals, or while you are at it the dinosaurs rotfl )
-
Peace,
and why would Messenger Shuayb (P) talk to his community about people they have no emotional link to,
after all he is trying to appeal to them to be wary of their fate, and why should they feel anything to people they know nothing about, or do not feel any closeness to...
psychologically it would not make sense, it is like warning them about the fate of the South American Aztecs (America was not probably yet discovered) or better of the fate of another species (neanderthals, or while you are at it the dinosaurs rotfl )
Peace,
Listen to yourself making fun of the book; psychologically then why should people today across world listen to Qur'an and it's stories about an Arab and Jew tribe in freaking Yemen?
-
And to Midyan was their brother Shu'ayb.....that you suffer the fate of what afflicted the people of Noah, or the people of Hud, or the people of Saleh; and the people of Lot were not far off from you."}.... = The last verse says clearly that the people to whom Hud , Saleh and Lot were sent were not far from Midyan
This seems a translation and understanding by someone who did not know how the sentences of Arabic are constructed and related with each other. That stupid guy sees Waw and starts talking as if he had read an English sentence.
-
Wow,
Great stuff Pazuzu.
You helped me a lot connect the dots.
I now know why Zionists are desperate to find anything to prove their claims to Palestine.
I am not sure if you guys remember the greatest forgery that was exposed regarding the tablet of Solomon and the tomb of the brother of jesus that was exposed in 2003 which basically has shattering consequences and showed that most of the biblical era artifacts found in museums all over the world proved to be forged.
A BBC documentary on this scandal
King Solomon's Tablet Of Stone
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xlBI8ENkqkits 5 parts
-
- The Migration of Peoples and Names
In order for us to delve into the depths of Arabia?s history ? a history that has been veiled and hidden by the hands of corruption and forgery ? we have to understand the phenomenon of ?tayammun?, and the effects it has on all geographical searches and evidences. This phenomenon is as old as humanity itself, and will continue to exist as long as there are humans on this Earth, and lands to explore. It consists of migrating tribes taking with them the names of cities or landmarks in the homeland which they left behind, and assigning these names to their new homeland.
Although this phenomenon has been unquestionably proven by anthropologists and linguists alike, it can cause some confusion to geographers and historians if it not taken into account when studying the history of the past nations, due to the similarity (duplicates) it creates between names of cities or locations.
And nowhere is the phenomenon of tayammun more evident than in ancient Arabia and the Levant regions. And we can see plenty of evidences of this in the forgotten books of history written by Arabs scholars. For example, in his book entitled ?Fat2 al ? Bari? , geographer and historian Ibn 2ijr relates to us the following (volume 11 . page 410)
" . ".
Let me translate to you what Ibn 2ijr is saying There are two places known as ?Sana?a?. There is the famous Sana?a of Yemen (the capital that is at least 2500 years old), and there is another small town on the outskirts of Damascus (capital of Syria) called ?Sana?a? as well. Ibn 2ijr tells us that during the Muslim ?conquest? (or should I say ILLEGAL ANNEXATION) of the Levant, under Omar bin al-Khatab, the original inhabitants of Yemen settled in that region of the subburbs of Damascus, and it became known as the ?New Sana?a? (so to speak).
So if news of a certain event which happened in Sana?a was being spread, of course the first thing that will come to mind is the Sana?a of Yemen, because of its popularity. But the fact is, the event could very well have taken place in the other, far less known Sana?a which is today a subburb of Damascus.
Now, if we stop a little bit and study this phenomenon in our modern age, we will find that there are countelss names of cities and towns that are duplicated all across the world, especially in the ?new? continents that were the target of exploration and colonization. Here are a few examples
1- The city of Washington, which is today the capital of the USA, was named after a small town by the same name on the outskirts of Newcastle, England. This shows that the people who named the Washingtom of the New World so, were the orignal settlers who had come from Brittain.
2- The city of New Orleans, also in the USA, was named after the old (original) Orleans in France. Everyone in the USA knows full well that a great percentage of the inhabitants of this city are descendants of the original settlers that had migrated from France, bringing with them all the memories and names they held dear to their hearts, as a kind of ?optimism charm? to start their lives in the new continent.
3- The city of New York was also named after the original (parent) York, which is in England.
4 ? There are no less than 5 cities/towns by the name of "Mecca" in North America alone! And these cities were named so because of the phenomenon of tayammun.
And this phenomenon included not only the names of cities and towns, but also of famous landmarks or geographical features (rivers, mountains, valleys), as we will soon see.
Going back to Arabia and the Levant, this explains to us the many dupicates in the names of cities all across these regions. And the glaring evidence is that the original name is always found to be in Yemen or Asir.
You wonder why that is so?
There is the city of Jarash in Jordan?.and there is also Jarash in Yemen (same word, ش. So which is the original, and which is the tayammuni name? To answer this, we simply need to follow the direction of the migrations.
Here is what the giant Arab geographer, al-Hamadani says about this famous Yemeni location in his book ?Description of Arabia? (DoA)
.
Al Hamadani is describing Jarash as a location containing many watery streams, which in the ancient times was settled by the ?3awasij? (Jewish nobles of Himyar). It lay at the mouth of the Bisha valley in the Asir region.
There is a town called Qana in Lebanon (where the Israelis perpetrated a massacre in 1996, when they fired missiles at a UN buidling harboring refugees, and killed 100 people, mostly women and children). There is also a Qana in Yemen. Which is the original and which is the tayammuni name?
Here?s one of dozens of links you can find about this ancient Yemeni port city, which played a very important role in the incense trade in the distant past
http//www.fotosearch.com/ICN240/f0020468/
Just Google ?Qana, Yemen? and see for yourself.
There is even an ancient town called ?Badr? in south Asir, near the border of Yemen, and I will show you exactly where it lies when I finally pin-point the location of Muhamad (P). I will show you how the Northern Arabs hijacked this name and gave it to a town south of Yathrib (Medina), and claimed that Muhamad faught his first battle against the disbelievers of Quraish there.
But for now, let us look at, with some detail, the ancient and ruined city of Soor in Yemen (mentioned over 50 times as ?Tyre? in the English translations of the Old Testament).
This ancient city has been embedded in the Arabian memory for time out of mind, as an example of the destruction which befalls human settlements resulting from natural catastrophies. It is located in a province known as ?Mikhlaf Jayshan? , to the south of Sana'a. It is in the greatest of the old Yemeni ?makhaleefs? (provinces or mini-kingdoms), and during the time of Muhamad (P), it was famous as the homeland of the Qaramita a prestigious Yemeni clan who were among the first to embrace Muhamad?s message. Tyre was their capilatl city. (I will show you where it is on the map).
In his book DoA, al-Hamadani says the following about Soor (Tyre)
" ".
He names some of the most important towns of the mikhlaf. Pay attention to the two underlined words Badr and Soor (Tyre). Both these ancient towns were part of the Jayshan Province.
Another geographer, Yaqoot al 2amwi, associates the Mikhlaf of Jayshan with the craddle of many clans, among them the Qaramita, who were among the most prominent clans in Islamic history.
.
The city of Tyre perished as a result of a series of volcanic eruptions which left a permanent trace in the tribal memory of ancient Arabia. The town, which was originally one of the most prosperous in the Surat region, tragically became an example of nature?s wrath, and a subject of many ancient Arabian poems.
The famous Yemeni poet, Ibn Harma, wrote the following verse in memory of this doomed town
It appears that the fate of Tyre was a truly devastating event that shook the entire region, and was considered the standard example by which natural destruction was measured. So tragic was it that, eventually, it became the stuff of legend. So much so, that many of the classical commentators of the Quran interpreted the following verse
{We tested them like We tested those who owned the garden, when they swore that they will harvest it in the morning}?
...as a reminder of Tyre.
There is even a hadith which is attributed to the prophet Muhamad (P), wherein he says to Ali bin Abi Taleb
Translation "Shall I teach you some words that, if the example of Tyre should come to pass, Allah will forgive you?"
Now, before you all jump at me and critisize me for using hadiths to prove a point, I will tell you this the hadith, regardless if it is fabrication or not, is still an indicator of the trace that the destruction of Tyre had left in the memory of the Arabs. The point is not to determine its authenticity, but simply to point out that the Arabian tribes were very familiar with the town of Tyre, and knew well of its terrible fate.
It appears that the destuction of Tyre by a volcanic eruption was much more recent than the destruction of Lot, for the Arabs to remember it that vividly and mention it in their poems.
What does this tell us?
It tells us that the Tyre mentioned over 60 times in the Old Testament, CANNOT be the Tyre of Lebanon. That would be geograohically impossible.
Here are a few passages from the Old Testament
Now Hiram king of Tyre sent his servants to Solomon, because he heard that they had anointed him king in place of his father, for Hiram had always loved David (1 Kings 51)
In the entire history of the Levant, there has never been any mention of a king named "Hiram". The Lebanese historians themselves have denied he ever existed. Only from the Old Testament do we know of his existence.
Here is another passage
Then Hiram king of Tyre sent messengers to David, and cedar trees, and carpenters and masons. And they built David a house (2 Samuel 511)
This is the famous story of king David, who requested of the king of Tyre to send him some cedarwood so he could build a great house.
Has there ever been any cedars anywhere near the costal city of Tyre in Lebanon?
Better yet, are there any volcanoes in or near Lebanon?
For thus says the Lord GOD "Behold, I will bring against Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses, with chariots, and with horsemen, and an army with many people" (Ezekiel 267)
Did Nebuchednezzar invade Lebanon from the north? Is there any archeological evidence of Assyrian/Babylonian conquests in LEBANON?
Which Tyre is being mentioned here, folks?
Again I ask you the question Where in the world are we?
I think the anwer to this is obvious. The city of Tyre on the meditteranean coast of Lebanon, which lies at sea level, was named after the Tyre of Yemen, which lay at an altitude of over 1000 meters, when the Arabian tribes migrated northwards to the Levant. It is one of hundreds of examples of tayammun.
What about the name ?Lebanon? itself? Where did that come from? (I think our friend Jafar, who is s big Phoenician enthusiast will not be too happy to hear this one).
There are twin mountain peaks in Yemen called ?Lebynan? (meaning the two ?Lebyns?). The name is composed of Lebyn + the suffix ?an?, which indicates dualilty (two). And these peaks are located in teh Asir region, not far from the ruins of Jarash. Lebynan was famous for snow which would sometimes cover its twin peaks in the winter months.
Ask any resident of Asir where these peaks are and you can rest assured he/she will point you to them.
Here is what al-Hamadani says in DoA (page 283) about these two mountains
.... ... .
Here, al-Hamadani is naming the best known peaks around Najran. Among those are Shoukan (meaning the dual ?shouk?), al-Jalaliyyan (the dual ?jalali?), Naf2a,?. Lower Labakha, and Lebynan (the dual ?Lebyn?). The mountain peaks are all nearly 3000 meters high, and the sight of snow on their peaks is not unfamiliar.
Snow in Asir? YES.
Take at look at the following
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Snow1.jpg
Snow covering the peaks of the Surat.
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Snow2.jpg
Snow on a mountain highway in Asir.
So not only was the Lebanese city of Tyre named after an older Yemeni city, but the ENTIRE country of Lebanon itself, famous for its snowy peaks , was named after a similar mountain in the Asir region.
And this is another example of tayammun.
The following map, taken from Fadhel al Rubaye's book "The Land of the Torah in Ancient Yemen" shows just where these places are
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/Doc.jpg
-
The red circle shows Ur-Salem (Bayt Yaboos), Mount Zion, and Ari2a (the original Jericho).
(To understand how these names are in Yemen, you will have to go to the thread by the title of "The Search for Muhamad has Ended", which will remain dormant for now). -
The blue circle shows Jarash
-
The green circle shows Mount Lebynan
-
The orange circle shows the ruins of Tyre.
- Astronomical Proof The Sundial of Ahaz
POSTSCRIPT TO THE SECOND EDITION OF "THE HISTORICITY OF BIBLICAL ISRAEL STUDIES IN 1& 2 SAMUEL" (2010)
"The Sundial of King Ahaz" ; by Anthony Lias.
In 1985, Professor Kamal Salibi, of the American University of Beirut, wrote a brilliant book entitled ?The Bible Came from Arabia?. Having had unexpected access to a gazetteer of Saudi Arabia published at Riyadh in 1977, his study of it confirmed him in the belief that the place-names of the Hebrew Bible ? the actual location of which has always troubled Biblical scholars if taken to apply to what we now call Palestine ? fitted perfectly if applied to the region called Asir, situated in West Arabia abutting on the Red Sea.
As someone who has a working knowledge of the original Hebrew vocabulary of the Bible, and who has published three books on place-names myself, I found the hundreds of examples listed by Professor Salibi absolutely convincing. However, I have recently found what I regard as a further powerful proof that Professor Salibi?s argument is correct. To explain why, I must point out that Asir lies (and lay) well within the tropic zone (between 17 and 19 degrees north of the Equator).
This retrograde motion of a shadow cast by a gnomon (i.e., a sundial pointer) has traditionally been regarded as a ?miracle?, because at the latitude of the present-day Jerusalem (31 degrees 47 minutes north of the Equator), such a motion would be impossible. However, and I quote a respected figure, the English mathematician/astronomer Thomas Keith (1759-1824)
?If a horizontal dial, which shows the hour by the top of the perpendicular gnomon, be made for a place in the torrid zone , whenever the sun?s declination exceeds the latitude of the place, the shadow of the gnomon will go back twice in the day, once in the forenoon and once in the afternoon, and the greater the difference between the latitude and the sun?s declination is, the farther the shadow will go back.?
Source Thomas Keith, A New Treatise On The Use Of The Globes. Revised Edition. London, 1855, pp. 336-7
Anthony Lias continues by saying
Now according to Professor Salibi, the original Jerusalem of Isaiah?s time will not have been in today?s Palestine, but in Asir, and within the torrid zone. Therefore the retrograde shadow on the ?dial of Ahaz? will not have been a ?miracle?, but a fact. And no doubt an experiment could be set up in Asir at the present time to prove this. (N.B since declination is the angular distance north or south of any heavenly body from the celestial equator, and since the highest possible declination of the sun is 23 degrees 28 minutes, it is plain that during certain months of the year the shadow will go back for every location within Asir.) It is possible that Professor Salibi is unaware of these astronomical details, which I believe are a vindication of his thesis.
The story about the odd behaviour of the sundial of King Ahaz also occurs in (2 Kings, 208-12). Here, the story makes it obvious that Isaiah knew that the ?shadow of the degrees? on the sundial would go back, and that King Hezekiah did not. My theory is that Isaiah (who is thought by some Biblical scholars to have acquired some astronomical knowledge from the Assyrians), duped Hezekiah into thinking he was witnessing a ?miracle?, while in reality he was witnessing a genuine phenomenon in the Jerusalem of Asir whose existence is proposed by Professor Salibi, not the later one of Palestine. The fact of the retrograde motion of the shadow of a gnomon within the tropics is independently confirmed and fully explained by Denis Savoie in his book Sundials, Design, Construction and Use (English translation by Bob Mizon, Springer Praxis Publishing, 2009), Appendix F (6), pp.163-4.
Now the question is Was this experiment ever conducted?
The answer is a big resounding YES. It was conducted in 2010 by a Saudi Scientist, Dr. Nureddine al-Mustaqeem.
Read about it here
http//kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/
Conclusion It is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE for such a phenomenon to take place in Palestine, because it is too far north. For the sundial shadow to behave in such a way, the experiment would have to be conducted in the torrid zone (closer to the equator).
What more proof do you need that they have been looking for ?Israel? in the wrong place?
THE END...
-
Thank you brother Pazuzu for another step to find truth, it is very evident indeed sun
What more proof do you need that they have been looking for ?Israel? in the wrong place? rotfl
they are too woried with other stuff.. and they prefer not to see, the only problem is that people are dying for their "childish attitudes"... nopeBut We can really start to understand the Quran as it suposed to be, at lest for non-arabic born speakers.. its a chance to accurate words (like Msr ) that next generation can be tought at least in a better way, more acurate, and less blind
Knowledge is not a competition, its the "fuel" for global understanding and tolerance, so i will be waiting for the next thread of Muhamed(P) that brother Pazuzu pormissed O0
Salaam
-
THE END...
bravo
Now for all the cheerleaders -- which fact did you find compelling (one at a time please); was it all the bible nonsense?