Road of the Patriarch
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Salaam, Pazuzu,
I concur with all those who have appreciated your work on so many questions as to the historicity of events and people mentioned in the Qur'an. I certainly concur with Farida's suggestion or request that you put all those efforts into a book form.
I am also confident that you will be patient. This kind of setting everything that has been taken for grnated upside down takes time to seep and find transform peoples minds. But as you say, in sha Allah it will come, and in the meantime it will be discussed and may be confusions and conflicting aspects dispelled.
Thanks for sharing your insights and for the effort you have made to do so.
Salaam
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There are several academic sources, however, unfortunately, many of them are in Aarabic and have not been translated. The remaining sources are basically just random articles I have picked up from the internet, and whose contents I have spliced together.
If you'd still like names and titles, I can mention the most important sources, as follows (The term "YES" means the title has been translated to English).
Arabic Books
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The Bible Came from Arabia (Kamal Salibi - 1985), YES
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Secrets of the Bible People (Kamal Sailibi - 198, YES
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Who Was Jesus? A Conspiracy in Jerusalem (Kamal Salibi - 198, YES
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The Historicity of Biblical Israel (Kamal Salibi - 199, YES
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Imagined Palestine The Land of the Torat in Ancient Yemen (Fadhel al-Rubayee - 200
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The Truth of the Babylonian Exile (Fadhel al Rubayee - 2009)
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Call of the Sarat Hijacking the Geography of the Prophets ("Tajdeed" Society - Bahrain - 2005)
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The Wars of David (Kamal Salibi - 2001)
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The Geography of the Torat in Asir (Ziad Minah - 1991)
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The Arabian Torah and the Jerusalem of Yemen (Farajullah Saleh Deeb - 1990)
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Sunnat al Awwaleen (Ibn Qirnas - 2004)
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Christianity of Paul and Constantine (Ibn Qirnas - 2007)
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Crowns of the Kings of Himyar (Muthir Ahmad Muthir - 1750 A.D.)
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Description of Arabia (Al-Hamadani - 942 A.D.)
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The Old Testament (Various Translations)
English Books
- Queen of Sheba and Biblical Scholarship (Bernard Leeman - 2005)
- Palestine is Not the Promised Land (Jameel Effarah - 2002)
- The Bible Unearthed Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts (Israel Finklestein and Neil Silberman - 2002)
- The Quest for the Historical Israel Debating Archaeology and the History of Early Israel (Israel Finklestein and Amihai Mazar - 2006)
- The Alexandria Link (Steve Berry - 2007)
As for websites and forums, they are simply too numerous to be counted. Aside from the links I posted in the threads themselves, you might want to check the following
http//baheyeldin.com/science/kamal-salibi-and-the-israel-from-yemen-theory.html
http//kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/supplement-for-second-edition-how-much.html
http//kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/p/king-ahaz.html
http//uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.com/2010/03/top-ten-reasons-east-jerusalem-does-not.html
@Farida / Huruf
I have already thought of that, and yes, you are right. I am planning a collection of 5 e-books where the information will be presented in a more organized form. The e-books will have all the contents of the threads (updated) + new content that I never got he chance to post. If all goes according schedule, 2 of these 5 books will be completed in 2012. The thread about "Isa" will have its own e-book dedicated to it (probably the last one).
To everyone else, thank you for your patience and support.
Peace and best regards.
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Salaam Pazuzu,
I didn't read every post of you but I read some. You have some interesting views, in some I agree, there were also some things on which I didn't agree and some things that I didn't study properly to confirm for myself. Anyhow thank you for your hard work and research and for sharing it. I really like to read the e-books when you finish them.
Salaam and may Allah increase us in knowledge,
Bender -
Slaam to all sun
Thank you brother Pazuzu for this amazing post, surely in E-books will be easier to analyse and study all details, handshake
Any help you need feel free to ask sun We will be waiting, patiently, for more posts and contiunuation of the unfinished one?s pr2211Ask the Seeds (or sonsof Israel) how many a supremely evident sign We brought them; and whoever exchanges the favor of Allah even after it has come to him, then surely Allah is strict in punishment.
2212Adorned for the ones who have disbelieved is the present life (Literally the lowly life, i.e., the life of this world) and they scoff at the ones who have believed; and the ones who are pious will be above them on the Day of the Resurrection and Allah provides whomever He decides without reckoning.
2213 Mankind was one nation; so, Allah sent forth the Prophets, constant bearers of good tidings and constant warners, and He sent down with them the Book with the Truth, to judge among mankind concerning that in which they differed. And in no way did anyone differ concerning it except the ones to whom it was brought even after the supreme evidences had come to them, being inequitable among themselves; So Allah guided the ones who believed to the Truth, concerning which they differed, by His permission, and Allah guides whomever He decides to a straight Path.
2214 Or (even) did you reckon that you should enter the Garden, while as yet there had not come up to you the like of (the ones) who passed away even before you? Misery and tribulation touched them, and (they) were shaken until the Messenger and the ones who believed with him said, "When does victory from Allah (come)?" Verily, victory from Allah is surely near.
Salaam to All, May Allah guide us All into enlighment pr
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Salaam Pazuzu,
Makkah, Bakkah, and the Mother of Towns Three DIFFERENT Places.
According to Islamic folklore and tradition (i.e. Islamic Hearsay), Bakkah was the old name for Makkah. The problem with this belief is that it doesn?t explain why Allah would use BOTH names in the Quran if they did indicate the SAME place.
I agree with you, but I have something different about Bakkah.
The Quran tells the people of Muhammad (P) that the first sanctuary established IS the one at Bakkah.
{The first Sanctuary established for the people is the one in Bakkah, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds}?
Here is my opinion about Bakkah
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603590.msg293981#msg293981
The first major clue given here is the word ?ahqaf? which appears at the beginning of the verses. This Arabic word is derived from the root h-q-f , which means to gather together / shovel (as in quantities dirt, or sand) / stacked on top of each other. The word is used in the colloquial dialects of south Arabia, as meaning giant sand dunes.
Sorry for offtopic, but this part gave me an idea, that many of the important things in Al Quran has been stated in the Surah title.
For examples
AL-MAIDAH = brings me to what inside the real Injeel.
AL-AHQAF = brings me to your conclusion
AL-MUMTAHANAH = brings me to malakat aymanukum
AL-JUMUAH related to AT-TAGHABUN = to explain what Yaumil Jumuah is
AL-ANKABUT = to explain what bayt is
And many others which need to analyzed further. Do you have any info about who gave the title for all surah? It seems that He/She wanted to leave the main point or clue to be analyzed.
And by the way, I look forward to have your e-book. sun
peace
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Just to thank you Pazuzu and send you encouragement to write your ebooks! sun
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Salam and jazakkallah pazuzu (I wish you changed this demonic nick though).
I purchased 3 Kamal Salabi books to study the matter further...
You do not touch at the whereabouts of Mohammed (P) and how/if he migrated to Yathrib...
Or is there a town called Yathrib in Yemen too? brickwallThis is an important matter. There is historical evidence that Mohammed administered the city of Yathrib/ Medinah.
- Medinah charter, letters to Monarchs, battles of Hunain, Tabuk, etc.
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Salam and jazakkallah pazuzu (I wish you changed this demonic nick though).
Thank you.
If it bothers you, don't use it. You can call me Rudolph if you wish )
You do not touch at the whereabouts of Mohammed (P) and how/if he migrated to Yathrib...
I did prove that Muhammad began preaching the Quran somewhere in Northern Yemen, and that he was of humble origins, born in a small town located in the territory between Sana'a and Najran.
I did not touch upon the subject of his migration. Also, I am not denying the fact that the Quran mentions Yathrib BY NAME, nor that the Muslims expanded northwards and were given territories that their forefathers had never set foot on.
However, Muhamad never reached Palestine. The claim that the "Majsid Aqsa" is in Palestine is a lie fabricated by the Marwani Umayyads, who wanted to ascribe divinity and "holliness" to that area, because they had hijacked the Deen and moved the center of power fro mArabia to the Levant.Most importantly, the aim was to show that the Bani Israel were a tribe of ancient Yemen, and that the theater of the Old Testament stories/legends was not Palestine.
Also, what I wrote does not agree 100% with Salibi. Salibi placed ancient Israel in Asir, and made it centered around the Jizan coastal town in South Saudi Arabia. The theory I presented is that it was centered around Sana'a and Mount Sion, just west of Sheba.
Just to thank you Pazuzu and send you encouragement to write your ebooks!
I am facing enormous problems and hurdles with translation. The Quranic Arabic is untranslatable, and I sometimes find myself frozen for many days on the same page, trying to find English words that convey the same meaning.
It will be a long and arduous task.
Peace...
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As a person who has been earning her bread very long years from translation, I can understand you and I never grudge compliments to translations of the Qur'an, because it does take courage and dedication to a maximum degree and even with the purest aim and intention, it may leave to be desired, which may be is intended that will keep us on our toes and prevent us from stopping at the first seemingly satisfactory solution. Being an ever fruitful text, it should always bring something of itself that we didn't have or expect and which will for other insights, alhamdulillah.
But every honest translation deserves respect and love. So ?courage, Pazuzu! it will not be perfect, but in sha' Allah, will be very good and fruitful.
Salaam
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Dear Pazuzu,
We all struggle in life. Insights, understanding and wisdom never comes without work or effort. We are all on our own individual paths of improvement... and I know this is indeed something difficult, painful and strenuous... I know this from my own life. But it is worth it many times over.
Sometimes we must wait for ourselves to grow and mature a bit further before Allah blesses us with more understanding. It's a process. And I believe that Allah says we should not haste in this business.
Also, the quran contains so many layers or levels of understanding that one will never come to a final optimal conclusion of its meaning. But perfection is not the goal... or purpose. The book is a guide, and we will read from it what we are capable of understanding... which is different for different people... this is like a natural law.
The important thing is instead to evolve and improve and better our understanding. As long as our understanding gets better... in this case the understanding of the quran and how best to render it in other languages..... then we are doing fine. A less bad translation is better than a worse translation. We may see translations as a report and sharing of the translators current understanding, with the purpose to help others in expanding their understanding and making more sense out of things that previously have been associated with lots of insane ideas.May Allah bless you with more knowledge, insights, understanding and lots of joy, peace, excitement and success in your honorable work of understanding the quran and clearing our misunderstandings that are so widespread and indoctrinated in the world.
All the best,
peace -
If it bothers you, don't use it. You can call me Rudolph if you wish )
and I sometimes find myself frozen for many days on the same page, trying to find English words that convey the same meaning.
It will be a long and arduous task.
Peace...
maybe calling you rudolph will unfreeze you.. ;D
but as I do not know how you look or talk like, the two threads moustache, and the fiery language
otherwise...
just do it, write it, and make versions that you amend as you go along... only Allah is perfect...
the reward will be your effort, and the purity of your intentions...I want to add a weird thought that has been following me (maybe the devil is planting it, or maybe it is worthy of consideration)...
The Quran does not speak of Jews, but of Yahud, and yahud are those who hadu, meaning those who got guided or accepted guidance... and these are most probably Saul, Daoud and Sulaiman folks...
as for Jews, there is an interesting phonetic play in the words of Gog and Magog, the fact is in Arabic it pronounces jewjz wa ma jewjz...
Could it be a cryptic prophecy (referring to an event that already happened in the time of Dhul Qarnain, but bound to repeat itself as the shield he built was temporary), about those who decided to call themselves jews who then got reinforced by majews (ie non jews - the khazars)... just a wild guess... incidentally from someone who has in his lineage jewish blood (the Tribe of Kaheena Dahia, she is one of my family ancestors... but I do have also some up to 50% arabic blood + a half turkish grandmother - nice mixture)
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Salam Member pazazu ,
i shake your hand handshake for this great work very inspiring , a very good research / information , and all the other posts about the land of the book and its people .
waiting for your e-book and other research inchallah.
my respect.
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Salam All,
As usual I haven't read all of the posts, so please bear with me..
But could there be a lapse in memory of human history especially about the dates (the number of years that humans have lived) so much so that they had forgotten their origins?
When the myths talked about the buroq, couldn't it had meant about an "alien like" ship?Has anybody made an effort on putting the Ancient Astronaut History Channel series of theories into the equations?
Salam,
Johan -
Has anybody made an effort on putting the Ancient Astronaut History Channel series of theories into the equations?
Not sure if serious. -
Not sure if serious.
how's that?
have you watched the series?
it's quite an eye opener..
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Aliens
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sha56wFTvng
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JllmH-Ab5VAAfter all, why can't we be the aliens?
Aren't we from the heavens as Adam AS was?719-25
And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Jannah/heavens/paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers." (19) But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal." (20) And he swore to them, "Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors." (21) So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?" (22) They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers." (23) said, "Descend, being to one another enemies. And for you on the earth is a place of settlement and enjoyment for a time." He said, "Therein you will live, and therein you will die, and from it you will be brought forth." (25)
So earth is a lower level then heaven as a descending act is required to come to earth from heaven.
Next question would be, where is heaven?
Could it be in the Orion belt? or could it be in another dimension/vibration state?Wallahua3lam,
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Yes, especially this.
Why call us aliens then? By this point we're pretty damn naturalised.
Does it matter where heaven is? It's not as if we're going to get there in our lifetime.
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Salam...
I believe in the existance of Malai'ka, which are divine agents / forces appointed by the Creator to serve certain functions (causing earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, carrying messages of Allah, taking souls upon death, etc...). I also believe that these malai'ka can take human form (as per the strange-looking guests of Abraham).
Also, these malai'ka are probably the reason why there is the pronoun "we" in the Quran. And if we read the verses carefully, we can note that Allah CANNOT possibly be the one speaking, but rather it was them...the malai'ka of revelation. Here is one of the most obvious examples of this Quranic phenomenon
{And we are not sent except by the authority of your Rabb. To Him are our present and our future, and all that is in-between. And your Rabb was never to forget * The Rabb of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. So serve Him and be patient in His service. Do you know anything that is like Him?}...
Who is the one speaking here? I think it's obvious who this "we" is. Allah would never say "YOUR Rabb" (in the 3rd person perspective) when addressing Muhammad.
My 2 cents...
Anyway, since we mentioned the "guests" of Abraham, I was having a comical discussion with a Sunni about 10 days ago, and towards the end, I asked him about the following verses
{And his wife was standing, so she laughed when We gave her the good news of Ishac, and after Ishac, Yaqoub * She said "O my! Shall I give birth when I am an old woman, and here is my husband an old man? This is indeed a strange thing!" * They said "Do you wonder at the decree of Allah? The mercy of Allah and blessings are upon you O People of the Sanctuary. He is Praiseworthy, Glorious."}...
Q Who is the wife who was given tidings that she would bear Isaac?
A Sarah.
Q Where did Sarah live?
A In Palestine
Q Really? If she was in Palestine, then why did the malai'ka salute her and her husband as "People of the Sanctuary"? Which "Sanctuary" is being mentioned here?His face turned purple, and he stormed out of the room, and I haven't seen or heard from him since then.
The story of seperating Ibraheem's family into 2 branches, one in Palestine (Sarah and her son Ishac) and one in Makkah (Hagar and her son Ismaeel) and having Ibraheem travel back and forth between the two on the back of a winged horse, is the most spectacular evidence of forgery in the Muslim creed.
There is absolutely ZERO evidence of this division in the Quran. Why would Ibraheem, who was made an imam (guide) for the people of his time, and who dedicated his life to serving the Sanctuary which he cleansed of idols, travel back to Palestine to die and be burried there? What is the purpose? Didn't the Patriarch, in his supplications to Allah, say
{And Ibraheem said "My Rabb, make this a peaceful land, and keep me and my sons away from serving idols}...
Was this prayer intended only for Ismaeel's progeny? What about Ishac? Isn't he also an inhabitant of that land? or was he in Palestine?
Didn't Abraham, after having cleansed that valley of idols, and become a beacon for the people of his age, who would flock to him during the Hajj seasons, thank Allah by saying
{Praise be to Allah, who has granted me in my old age Ismaeel and Ishac; my Rabb is Hearer of the prayer}...
So where were his sons then?
I defy any Sunni or Shiite on this planet to give me a logical answer to these questions.
As for the e-books, I expect the first one to be completed during Ramadan of this year.
Peace and blessings to all...