Who descended from Jannah ?
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Shalom,
Can someone help me out with this issue please. I was looking into the descending phase of Adam. I am a bit concerned with it.
235 And We said "O Adam, reside you and your mate in the paradise, and eat from it bountifully as you both wish, and do not approach this tree, else you will be of those who have wronged."
236 So, the devil caused them to slip from it, and he brought them out from what they were in, and We said "Descend; for you are enemies to one another; and on the earth you will have residence and provisions until the appointed time."
237 Adam then received words from His Lord, so He forgave him; He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.
238 We said "Descend from it all of you, so when the guidance comes from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."Descend from it all of you ?
Please school me on the grammar here. What does the arabic say about this phrase ? All = more than 2 individuals? Provided that its more than 2, including Satan. Look at the following ayaat.
20123 He said "Descend from this, all of you, for you are enemies to one another. So, when My guidance comes to you, then, whoever follows My guidance, he will not go astray nor suffer."
Is the "all of you" and "when my guidance comes to you" being said to the same "you" ? or excluding Satan ? Because I want to know the number of individuals that descended.(excluding Satan)
thanks for any help on the issue.
PEACE
-------------------- Student of Allah -
Shalom,
Can someone help me out with this issue please. I was looking into the descending phase of Adam. I am a bit concerned with it.
235 And We said "O Adam, reside you and your mate in the paradise, and eat from it bountifully as you both wish, and do not approach this tree, else you will be of those who have wronged."
236 So, the devil caused them to slip from it, and he brought them out from what they were in, and We said "Descend; for you are enemies to one another; and on the earth you will have residence and provisions until the appointed time."
237 Adam then received words from His Lord, so He forgave him; He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.
238 We said "Descend from it all of you, so when the guidance comes from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."Descend from it all of you ?
Please school me on the grammar here. What does the arabic say about this phrase ? All = more than 2 individuals? Provided that its more than 2, including Satan. Look at the following ayaat.
20123 He said "Descend from this, all of you, for you are enemies to one another. So, when My guidance comes to you, then, whoever follows My guidance, he will not go astray nor suffer."
Is the "all of you" and "when my guidance comes to you" being said to the same "you" ? or excluding Satan ? Because I want to know the number of individuals that descended.(excluding Satan)
thanks for any help on the issue.
PEACE
-------------------- Student of AllahThe scenario in Sura 235-38 was meant for Adam and Eve and ALL of MANKIND that was to proceed after them.
Sura 7 shows us that Iblees descended PRIOR to Adam and Eve's decent ......
711 We created you, We shaped you, and then We said to the angels "Submit to Adam;" so they submitted except for Satan, he was not of those who submitted.
712 He said, "What has prevented you from submitting when I have ordered you?" He said, "I am better than him, You created me from fire and created him from clay!"
713 He said, "Descend from it, it is not for you to be arrogant here; depart, for you are disgraced."
714 He said, "Grant me respite until the day they are resurrected?"
715 He said, "You are granted respite."
716 He said, "For You having me sent astray, I will stalk for them on Your Straight Path."
717 "Then I will come to them from between their hands, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left; You will not find most of them to be appreciative."
718 He said, "Get out from this, you are despised and banished. As for those among them who follow you, I will fill hell with you all!"Now the story with Adam and Eve is narrated . They(Adam and Eve) have not yet descended neither have they left paradise as yet
719 "Adam, reside with your mate in the paradise, and eat from wherever you please; but do not approach this tree or you will be of the wicked."
720 But the devil whispered to them, to reveal their bodies which was hidden from them; and he said, "Your Lord did not forbid you from this tree except that you would become angels, or you would be immortals."
721 He swore to them "I am giving good advice."
721 He swore to them "I am giving good advice."
723 They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves and if You do not forgive us and have mercy on us, then we will be of the losers!"
724 He said, "Descend as enemies to one another; on earth you will have residence and provisions until the appointed time."
725 He said, "In it you will live and in it you will die, and from it you will be brought forth."
726 O Children of Adam, We have sent down for you garments to cover your bodies, as well as ornaments; and the garment of awareness is the best. That is from God's signs, perhaps they will remember.Iblees didn't just sporadically decided one day to tempt man. He was given leave by God to do so first. Iblees descended prior to Adam and Eve's decent from paradise. These two episodes could have never occurred at the same time.
Note When Iblees (and probably others with him) 'descended' it meant that he lost some of his abilities. He and those who followed him were also banned from entering the upper heavens. Think of the movie "Thor" with the exception that Iblees was far more arrogant and evil.
Man's decent from paradise likewise could mean that they were banned from getting everlasting prosperity, peace, and happiness
till after a clear test was given to each and every person. The appreciative will enter paradise and receive the best of God's creation. Whilst the unappreciative will receive the worst since they choose willingly not to show any thanks, praise or obedience to Almighty God when it was rightly due.Peace,
Kevin.
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The scenario in Sura 235-38 was meant for Adam and Eve and ALL of MANKIND that was to proceed after them.
Sura 7 shows us that Iblees descended PRIOR to Adam and Eve's decent ......
Peace,
Kevin.
Salaam
Good post, but if Iblees descended prior to Adam and his spouse then how was he able to come back and tempt them to eat from the forbidden tree? hmm
From what I understand by carefully reading the sura where Iblees and Shaytan is mentioned the name Iblees is used when he was in Jannah, and when he was commanded to leave he asked for respite to tempt the humans and was granted that respite. However as he had already been expelled he used his forces/army/junood, i.o.w Shayateen, to lurk around humans to lead them astry by influencing their thinking. So Iblees is the commander of the army of Shayteen and each human being has one Satan lurking around to tempt as long as he lives on this earth.Kids do not get tempted by the wishpers of Satan, but once a child is old enough to understand the difference between gain and loss, along comes Satan with his ideas. !
A child going to a shop to buy candy and the shop keeper gives him extra change back he will not know much differece he may keep it or give back but once he old eonough to be able to see that the shop keeper made a mistake there comes the wisper from Shaytan 'Oh keep the change; why give him back? You can buy more candy with it. That's it; the work of Satan has commenced. > -
Salaam
Good post, but if Iblees descended prior to Adam and his spouse then how was he able to come back and tempt them to eat from the forbidden tree? hmm
From what I understand by carefully reading the sura where Iblees and Shaytan is mentioned the name Iblees is used when he was in Jannah, and when he was commanded to leave he asked for respite to tempt the humans and was granted that respite. However as he had already been expelled he used his forces/army/junood, i.o.w Shayateen, to lurk around humans to lead them astry by influencing their thinking. So Iblees is the commander of the army of Shayteen and each human being has one Satan lurking around to tempt as long as he lives on this earth.Kids do not get tempted by the wishpers of Satan, but once a child is old enough to understand the difference between gain and loss, along comes Satan with his ideas. !
A child going to a shop to buy candy and the shop keeper gives him extra change back he will not know much differece he may keep it or give back but once he old eonough to be able to see that the shop keeper made a mistake there comes the wisper from Shaytan 'Oh keep the change; why give him back? You can buy more candy with it. That's it; the work of Satan has commenced. >My studies have shown me that Paradise resided right here on earth. Earth is where paradise was. The question you should ask is what exactly is paradise??? Paradise is a place of eternal wealth, health and happiness. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God these goodies were banned from them. Thus they descended and so did we.
Note as well,
Sura 1448 The day the earth is replaced with another earth, as are the heavens, and they will appear before God, the One, the Irresistible. ( A new earth will be created or this present one will be replaced)
3974 They said, "Praise be to God who has fulfilled His promise to us, and He made us inherit the earth, enjoying Paradise as we please. What a beautiful recompense for the workers!"
This earth was paradise till God banned paradise from our parents and future generations. Paradise was our garments. It was what was protecting us all from the bad things that we now suffer right here on earth (extreme heat , extreme cold, diseases and all manner of sickness etc) . When Adam and Eve sinned there garments were removed (Paradise).
727 O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; removing from them their garments to show them their bodies.(they became exposed to a world without paradise.) He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not acknowledge.
Peace,
Kevin
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So Iblees is the commander of the army of Shayteen and each human being has one Satan lurking around to tempt as long as he lives on this earth.
The believers will never take Iblees or his forces as companions. If you are a sincere believer you don't have much to fear. It is rather the unbelievers that have to worry about them since they are the ones more likely to take the Jinns as companions. Everyone has a choice to choose whether or not they want to make friends with the Jinns or not. We have a choice. What they offer is only a suggestion. They can't make us do anything we don't want them to do.
Peace,
Kevin.
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My studies have shown me that Paradise resided right here on earth. Earth is where paradise was. The question you should ask is what exactly is paradise??? Paradise is a place of eternal wealth, health and happiness. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God these goodies were banned from them. Thus they descended and so did we.
Note as well,
Sura 1448 The day the earth is replaced with another earth, as are the heavens, and they will appear before God, the One, the Irresistible. ( A new earth will be created or this present one will be replaced)
3974 They said, "Praise be to God who has fulfilled His promise to us, and He made us inherit the earth, enjoying Paradise as we please. What a beautiful recompense for the workers!"
This earth was paradise till God banned paradise from our parents and future generations. Paradise was our garments. It was what was protecting us all from the bad things that we now suffer right here on earth (extreme heat , extreme cold, diseases and all manner of sickness etc) . When Adam and Eve sinned there garments were removed (Paradise).
727 O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; removing from them their garments to show them their bodies.(they became exposed to a world without paradise.) He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not acknowledge.
Peace,
Kevin
Salaam
I did not use the word Paradise; I used 'Jannah', which means garden(of bliss).
Shaytan is the companion/buddy of those who follow him and he would do anything to make hell on this earth.
Beleivers say
Say, "My Lord, I seek refuge in You from the whispers of the devils."And I seek refuge in You, my Lord, lest they come near me."
peace
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Salaam
I did not use the word Paradise; I used 'Jannah', which means garden(of bliss).
Shaytan is the companion/buddy of those who follow him and he would do anything to make hell on this earth.
Beleivers say
Say, "My Lord, I seek refuge in You from the whispers of the devils."And I seek refuge in You, my Lord, lest they come near me."
peace
I know you didn't. I was just trying to show to you that paradise resided here on earth till Adam and Eve sinned. When they sinned there bodies become exposed to ' the present human conditions' (eg extreme , cold, sickness etc.). Paradise which was mankind's garments were gone.
You also said "how was he (Satan) was able to come back and tempt them to eat from the forbidden tree? " I already gave this answer in my past posts. When Satan descended he was striped of some of his power. Remember that Iblees was an Angel prior to his descent.
20116 We said to the angels "Submit to Adam." They all submitted except for Satan(iblees), he refused.
His descent in my view wasn't a ban from paradise since paradise wasn't created for him( It was created for the humans) His descent meant to me
(1) A permanent ban from entering the upper heavens......
1516 We have placed towers in the heavens and We have made them pleasant to the onlookers. (stars , planets, meteors)
1517 We have guarded them from every outcast devil.
1518 Except he who manages to eavesdrop, he will be pursued clearly by a flaming meteor.(Satan and his forces are ban from going beyond our heavens to the upper heavens.(2) A permanent reduction in power and status. Most of the power that he would had have as an angel was gone.
Peace,
Kevin.
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I know you didn't. I was just trying to show to you that paradise resided here on earth till Adam and Eve sinned. When they sinned there bodies become exposed to ' the present human conditions' (eg extreme , cold, sickness etc.). Paradise which was mankind's garments were gone.
You also said "how was he (Satan) was able to come back and tempt them to eat from the forbidden tree? " I already gave this answer in my past posts. When Satan descended he was striped of some of his power. Remember that Iblees was an Angel prior to his descent.
20116 We said to the angels "Submit to Adam." They all submitted except for Satan(iblees), he refused.
His descent in my view wasn't a ban from paradise since paradise wasn't created for him( It was created for the humans) His descent meant to me
(1) A permanent ban from entering the upper heavens......
1516 We have placed towers in the heavens and We have made them pleasant to the onlookers. (stars , planets, meteors)
1517 We have guarded them from every outcast devil.
1518 Except he who manages to eavesdrop, he will be pursued clearly by a flaming meteor.(Satan and his forces are ban from going beyond our heavens to the upper heavens.(2) A permanent reduction in power and status. Most of the power that he would had have as an angel was gone.
Peace,
Kevin.
Salaam
The Garden of Eden could be somewhere in the Yemeni mountains as Pazuzu has been discussing about the place where Adam and his wife first appeared and I too believe that the inhabited earth before the first sin was like Paradise and will turn back to Junnah which you confirmed with a surahs from the Quran.
Regarding Ibless there is another thread also discussing the name Iblees and Satan, and if you study those verses you would note that the name Iblees was only used until he first disobeyed and was condemned and he then became a Jinn. After that only the name Satan is used. As Iblees was banned form Jannah he asked for respite to allow him to mislead humans, and to do that he used his troops of Shayateen; this is what I understand from
2695 As well as all the soldiers of Iblees
2695 Wajunoodu ibleesa ajmaAAoona
But I could be wrong so that is why we discuss here further on this forum peace -
Salaam
The Garden of Eden could be somewhere in the Yemeni mountains as Pazuzu has been discussing about the place where Adam and his wife first appeared and I too believe that the inhabited earth before the first sin was like Paradise and will turn back to Junnah which you confirmed with a surahs from the Quran.
Regarding Ibless there is another thread also discussing the name Iblees and Satan, and if you study those verses you would note that the name Iblees was only used until he first disobeyed and was condemned and he then became a Jinn. After that only the name Satan is used. As Iblees was banned form Jannah he asked for respite to allow him to mislead humans, and to do that he used his troops of Shayateen; this is what I understand from
2695 As well as all the soldiers of Iblees
2695 Wajunoodu ibleesa ajmaAAoona
But I could be wrong so that is why we discuss here further on this forum peaceI disagree with the sentences in bold. If you look at Sura 26 94-102 you will see that Iblees is used to describe Satan in the FUTURE . Another example is in Sura 3420-21
3420 Satan(iblees) has been successful in his suggestions to them, for they followed him, except for a group of those who acknowledge.
3421 He did not have any authority over them except that We might know who acknowledged the Hereafter from those who are doubtful about it. Your Lord is Keeper over all things.Iblees again is used to describe Satan in the future.
Personally I don't agree with some of Pazuzu's claims (conjectures). He has yet to answer my response which I posted to him days ago with regards to the Children of Israel inheriting(or residing in) the lands of Pharaoh after the exodus which I believe has no Quranic basis.
Peace,
Kevin.
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This is where the problem is. By keeping the word "iblees" untranslated, and giving it a capital "I", you are turning it into a proper noun. By translating "shaytan" into Satan, you are giving the term a supernatral and mythological meaning.
The word "iblees" is derived from the root verb "ba-la-sa" . If I were to chose a term in English that comes closest to doing this word justice, I would say it is "to despair". The adjective "mublisoon" is also derived from this root, and appears several times in the Quran.
Try reading the following, and deducing the meaning which fits in the context
{So when they forgot what they had been reminded of, We opened for them the gates of all opportunities; and when they were happy with what they were given, We took them suddenly! They were MUBLISOON}...
{Until We open for them a door of immense chastisement, and therein they became MUBLISOON}...
{Surely, the criminals will abide in the retribution of jahannam * It will not be removed from them; they will be MUBLISOON therein}...
{Allah Who sends the winds, so they raise clouds, and He spreads them in the sky as He wishes, then He turns them into joined pieces, then you see the rain drops come forth from their midst. Then when He makes them fall on whoever He wills of His servants, they rejoice! * Even though just before He sent it down to them, they were MUBLISOON}...
As you can see, the best (or closest) meaning that would fit the context in all of the above is "despair".
The state of being in continuous despair is "iblas" (from the root "bls"
Just as the state of being in continuous "submission" (as you people call it) is "islam" (from "slm"
Just as the state of being bankrupt is "iflas" (from the root "fls"So as you can see, there is nothing mythological about the word. It is a 100% Arabic term, which denotes a certain psychological or mental state or tendency.
The same can be said about the word "shaytan" The FM rendering of the word is "Satan". This is totally unacceptable. The root of the word is "sha-ta-na" , which means to go far / rebel
"Shaytan" is the state of rebellion or moving far from the divine laws.
Personally I don't agree with some of Pazuzu's claims (conjectures). He has yet to answer my response which I posted to him days ago with regards to the Children of Israel inheriting(or residing in) the lands of Pharaoh after the exodus which I believe has no Quranic basis
No Quranic basis?
{You shall go forth with My servants during the night; you will be pursued * And cross the bahr quickly; their troops will be drowned * How many gardens and springs did they leave behind? * And crops and an honorable station? * And blessings that they enjoyed? * Thus it was; and We caused another people to inherit it. * Neither the heaven, nor the earth wept over them, and they were not respited. * And We saved the Children of Israel from the humiliating agony * From Pharaoh; he was a transgressing tyrant.}...
Peace...
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The word "iblees" is derived from the root verb "ba-la-sa" . If I were to chose a term in English that comes closest to doing this word justice, I would say it is "to despair". The adjective "mublisoon" is also derived from this root, and appears several times in the Quran.
Salaam Aleikum Brother Pazuzu,
You've become a regular well of knowledge to me and, I'm sure, many others, for which I'm truly grateful. I don't doubt your assertion that iblees means "to despair", however it seems strange to me that a being, whom Allah (swt) has denounced as arrogant, should be connoted as despairing, doesn't it? I wonder, could it also mean to 'induce despair' i.e. one who induces despair (in the minds of mankind as it were), as that would seem to make more sense? hmm
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Shalom everyone,
Thanks for your responses. However, I did not get anything conclusive on the part of the number of people that descended. I got a bit confused because of God saying "All of you". I dont know arabic well to understand if that can be said to just 2 people. In English, I would rather say both of you. I would use "all of you" if there are more than 2 people. If there were more than 2 people excluding Satan, then adam and eve were not alone. O You see what I am saying ?
Innitially I thought that satan descended prior to them. But later I find him tempting the poor kids in the garden. So, he didnt descend before them. Unless we resort to other vague theories which are extremely speculative and hypothetical without any guarantee to be true.
@Pazuzu
Your posts are really interesting. I posted a reply in one of our threads concerning the origin of life. I am still awaiting reply to that.PEACE
---------------- Student of Allah
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Shalom everyone,
Innitially I thought that satan descended prior to them. But later I find him tempting the poor kids in the garden. So, he didnt descend before them. Unless we resort to other vague theories which are extremely speculative and hypothetical without any guarantee to be true.
PEACE---------------- Student of Allah
Salaam
713 He said, "Descend from it, it is not for you to be arrogant here; depart, for you are disgraced."
One explanation could be that Iblees descended from the rank of an angel to the debased rank of a Jinn, so he had to leave the upper heavens where only angles are allowed. At that time Adam was not yet released into Jannah as only after Adams wife had been created were they given leave to stay in Paradise, with the caution not to eat from the forbidden tree.
Also if only Adam and his wife were asked to leave the Jannah than the wording in surah 724 would mean that it?s man and woman who will be each other?s enemies, rather than shaytan and man. hmm
724 He said, "Descend as enemies to one another; on earth you will have residence and provisions until the appointed time."
So I think three were ordered to descend; Adam and his wife and satan, which means the three of them would be each other?s enemies. I think Satan is indeed the enemy of humans and humans are his enemy but man and woman should not be enemies then if we look at how Eve got the blame for all wrong done it seems that there is curs of anomosity between man and women too. hmm
Salaam -
I also reached the conclusion that Iblis meant despair, quite some time ago. Satan follows his desire. Satan is also the rejected. Promiscuity, rejection, despair and disbelief, considering oneself superior to mankind, firespirit, and founding religions of idolatry, with a feeble cunning, is again transgression - going too far.
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No Quranic basis?
{You shall go forth with My servants during the night; you will be pursued * And cross the bahr quickly; their troops will be drowned * How many gardens and springs did they leave behind? * And crops and an honorable station? * And blessings that they enjoyed? * Thus it was; and We caused another people to inherit it. * Neither the heaven, nor the earth wept over them, and they were not respited. * And We saved the Children of Israel from the humiliating agony * From Pharaoh; he was a transgressing tyrant.}...
Peace...
Wow pazuzu is this all that you bring to the table to prove a point???? These verses DON'T specifically point that the children of Israel dwell in Misra after the exdous. These verses are vague and are left to conjecture. In order to get the whole story you need to examine the entire Quran....
And here's my proof again. I hope this time you will answer me since you have avoided my points before.....
7137 We let the people who were oppressed inherit the east and the west of the land which We have blessed, and good word of your Lord was completed towards the Children of Israel. For they were patient, and We destroyed what Pharaoh and his people were doing, and what they contrived.
The land that was inherited by the Children of Israel is a blessed land. This is not the land of the Pharaoh . It was the land of there forefather's Abraham , Issac and Jacob and the 12 patriarchs
So where was this land and did the Children of Israel attempt a journey to go to this land.... The Quran provides the answer.
Where is the Holy Land????
396 The first house established for the public is the one in Bakka, blessed, and guidance for the worlds.
397 In it are clear signs the place of Abraham. Whoever enters it will be secure. Pilgrimage to the sanctuary is a duty from God for the people who can afford a means to it. Whoever rejects, and then God has no need of the worlds.This holy land was resided near Bakka. And it my belief that this land is Jerusalem and NOT Mecca. Mecca is not Bakka. Bakka is a well know place among the Jews....
How lovely is Your dwelling-place, O Lord of Hosts. I long, I yearn for the courts of the Lord; my body and soul shout for joy to the living God ... Happy are those who dwell in Your house; they forever praise You. Happy is the man who finds refuge in You, whose mind is on the highways. They pass through the Valley of Baca, regarding it as a place of springs, as if the early rain had covered it with blessing ... Better one day in Your courts than a thousand ; I would rather stand at the threshold of God's house than dwell in the tents of the wicked Psalms 84
Did the Children of Israel attempt to Travel to the holy land???
520 Moses said to his people, "My people, remember God's favor upon you that he made amongst you prophets, and made you sovereigns, and he gave you what He had not given any from the worlds."521 "O my people, enter the holy land that God Has decreed for you, and do not turn your backs, or you will become losers."
522 They said, "O Moses, in it are a mighty people, and we will not enter it until they leave. So when they leave, then we will enter it."
523 Among those who were afraid, two men whom God had blessed, said, "Enter upon them through the gate; when you enter it then you will be the victors. You shall put your trust in God if you had acknowledged."
524 They said, "O Moses, we will never enter it as long as they are in it, so go you and your Lord and fight, we will stay right here!" ( The land which they eventually inherited had MIGHTY PEOPLE. Which would imply that they may have to fight in order to obtain the land)
525 He said, "My Lord, I do not control except myself and my brother, so separate between us and between the wicked people."
526 He said, "Then it has become forbidden for them for forty years,and they will be lost in the land." Do not be sorrowful over the wicked people.
Two points need to highlighted here
(1) The land had mighty people in it and because it did they were hesitate to enter the land
(2) Because of there fear God banned them from entering the land for forty years and thus they became a WANDERING TRIBE LOST IN THE LAND. Strange that a people who had Misra as a dwelling place would need to wander or much less be lost in the land. Wouldn't you agree pazuzu????
Not satisfied. What about this???
261 You said, "O Moses, we will not be patient to one type of food, so call for us your Lord that He may bring forth what the earth grows of its beans, cucumbers, garlic, lentils, and onions." He said, "Would you trade what is lowly with what is good?" Descend to (misra), you will have in it what you have asked for. They were thus stricken with humiliation and disgrace, and they remained under God's wrath for they were not appreciating God's signs, and killing the prophets with no justification. This is for what they have disobeyed and transgressed.
If these people occupied the land of misra then why is there problem of food??? Why would they need to go back to misra ( which is implied here as an shameful act)?????
These points show to me that MISRA WASN'T the place where they resided after the exdous. Not in a million years could this theory be correct since it doesn't fit and make any logical sense in the Quran.
In simple point form I'm going to reiterate my proofs.
- The children of Israel became a wandering tribe. This means they didn't reside anywhere permanently.
- They only had one type of food to eat. Wouldn't this be very strange for a people who dwelt in Misra with "Crops and luxurious dwellings???" . Could these verses (Sura 4423-31) more correctly imply that OTHER PEOPLE perhaps future generations of the people of Misra???
3)If the land was blessed AND THEY HAD (Misra) as a dwelling place then why the shame to descend back into it???? - The blessed land that they were meant to inherit was the land of there forefathers.
These points don't fit into your theory which is why I completely disagree with your whole story that the Children of Israel dwelt in Misra after the exdous. The children of Israel were a wandering tribe according to the Quran. How could you interpret a "wandering people lost in the land or earth" as a people who dwelt in Misra ( fixed location) ??? Clearly the Quran shows to us that this is not the case.
Peace,
Kevin
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Shalom,
So Iblees was an angel now...........hmm. This reminds me of the hadith based weird story about Iblees that I read as a kid. According to that, Iblees was a jinn, who earns God's guidance and becomes the leaders of the angels. Then one day, when God creates a new creation, he denies to obey the command of God.... and you know the rest.
Anyways.... I think, about certain things, all we can do is speculate.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I hope we dont hijack the thread by offtopics. Please stay away from such things.
PEACE
---------------- Student of Allah -
Shalom,
So Iblees was an angel now...........hmm. This reminds me of the hadith based weird story about Iblees that I read as a kid. According to that, Iblees was a jinn, who earns God's guidance and becomes the leaders of the angels. Then one day, when God creates a new creation, he denies to obey the command of God.... and you know the rest.
Anyways.... I think, about certain things, all we can do is speculate.
.
PEACE
---------------- Student of AllahSalaam
711 ...... We said to the angels "Submit to Adam;" so they submitted except for Iblees, he was not of those who submittedThanks for sharing your thoughts. I hope we dont hijack the thread by offtopics. Please stay away from such things
Agree
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This holy land was resided near Bakka. And it my belief that this land is Jerusalem and NOT Mecca. Mecca is not Bakka. Bakka is a well know place among the Jews....
Peace,
Kevin
Salaam Kavin
I hope we dont hijack the thread by offtopics, so I shall post in appropriate thread regarding above quote.
Peace -
I also reached the conclusion that Iblis meant despair, quite some time ago. Satan follows his desire. Satan is also the rejected. Promiscuity, rejection, despair and disbelief, considering oneself superior to mankind, firespirit, and founding religions of idolatry, with a feeble cunning, is again transgression - going too far.
By making of himself more than God make him, in fact he has closed his way to God, when one is enclosed one is in dispair, one cannot move. Idolatry closes the way, egolatry, closes the way.
Salaam