How to worship, scriptures for Qur'an only

Spear_Man

First of all, let me say that I have enjoyed reading many of the topics here. I am a Christian and agree that we all worship the same God. But in reading I have a few questions. One is how do Qur'an only Muslims worship if they don't follow most or any Hadiths? Do you simply follow the way you were taught or just pray with prostration? Also, since Jews, Muslims, and Christians worship the same God, then why the different forms of worship that are seen? One could come to the conclusion then that a Christian could perform a Muslim Salaat for example. Do any here use Jewish or Christian ways of prayer or scriptures in their prayer or for religious guidance?

I came across an article about the Episcopal priest who was defrocked for being a Muslim as well. I think she is one the right road, and was just curious as to what the opinions here would be.

Gnosis

First of all, let me say that I have enjoyed reading many of the topics here. I am a Christian and agree that we all worship the same God. But in reading I have a few questions. One is how do Qur'an only Muslims worship if they don't follow most or any Hadiths? Do you simply follow the way you were taught or just pray with prostration? Also, since Jews, Muslims, and Christians worship the same God, then why the different forms of worship that are seen? One could come to the conclusion then that a Christian could perform a Muslim Salaat for example. Do any here use Jewish or Christian ways of prayer or scriptures in their prayer or for religious guidance?

I came across an article about the Episcopal priest who was defrocked for being a Muslim as well. I think she is one the right road, and was just curious as to what the opinions here would be.

Salaam,

Christians and Muslims don't technically worship the same god though we are made to think so. Many Christians intend to worship the True God, but they often identify the god of Isa (Jesus) as YHWH, when further research into the Bible and other scriptures shows a different picture. A Muslim will indeed tell you that the god of Jesus was Allah, the same god of Muhammad. Muslims never refer to Allah as YHWH and neither does the Qur'an. That is because YHWH and Allah are not the same. Allah is the true Most High, the Great Mother-Father spirit, while YHWH is a lessser being, a demiurge figure pretending or falsly attributed to be the Most High.

Christians that can recognize that Allah and YHWH are not the same and that Allah, not YHWH, was the god of Christ, then they do worship the same god as Muslims. If however they identify the god of Christ as YHWH, then no they do not worship the True God.

Spear_Man

I had several ministers tell me that God the Father in the scriptures is Allah, and that the various names were different linguistic terms. I personally feel that while many Christians are supposed to worship the True God, they often get stuck in a form of Jesus worship.

Am I safe in assuming by your name you are a gnostic?

Gnosis

I had several ministers tell me that God the Father in the scriptures is Allah, and that the various names were different linguistic terms. I personally feel that while many Christians are supposed to worship the True God, they often get stuck in a form of Jesus worship.

Am I safe in assuming by your name you are a gnostic?

I identify as both gnostic and Muslim. Islam and Gnosticism to me are on the same chain of thought and revelation, with Islam being the way of life and Gnostic being the perspective. Both stress the importance of knowledge and speak of the truly transcendant, bodiless Creator who in essence is not a god but is above a god, They are Allah. The Light, The Monad. Anything that is worshipped can be a god, but there is only One Allah, Creator of all.

And yes, God the Father who Jesus referred to is Allah, not YHWH.

Spear_Man

I identify as both gnostic and Muslim. Islam and Gnosticism to me are on the same chain of thought and revelation, with Islam being the way of life and Gnostic being the perspective. Both stress the importance of knowledge and speak of the truly transcendant, bodiless Creator who in essence is not a god but is above a god, They are Allah. The Light, The Monad. Anything that is worshipped can be a god, but there is only One Allah, Creator of all.

And yes, God the Father who Jesus referred to is Allah, not YHWH.

I know some Christians who also identify as gnostic. Its pretty interesting. If you don't mind I may later PM you with some questions I have on gnosticism.

So YHWH is a demiurge and not the God of the Old Testament? Or is he the same? Does this mean that Jews do not worship the One God?

Faithful-Jinn

I identify as both gnostic and Muslim. Islam and Gnosticism to me are on the same chain of thought and revelation, with Islam being the way of life and Gnostic being the perspective. Both stress the importance of knowledge and speak of the truly transcendant, bodiless Creator who in essence is not a god but is above a god, They are Allah. The Light, The Monad. Anything that is worshipped can be a god, but there is only One Allah, Creator of all.

And yes, God the Father who Jesus referred to is Allah, not YHWH.

I have an issue with your last statement. Allah and Yahweh are one and the same. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Allah is simply the Arabic title and Yahweh the Hebrew one. The distinction is purely linguistic and as Muslims we are required to believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Moses. If you dispute that who the Bible calls Yahweh and the Qur'an calls Allah are one and the same then you are denying the authority of the Qur'an itself which tells us it confirms the Scriptures which came before it and also tells us to follow Abraham.

Gnosis

I know some Christians who also identify as gnostic. Its pretty interesting. If you don't mind I may later PM you with some questions I have on gnosticism.

So YHWH is a demiurge and not the God of the Old Testament? Or is he the same? Does this mean that Jews do not worship the One God?

YHWH is the demiurge and is also the god of the Old Testament. The god of the Old Testament is not the True God and is not Allah. You're more than welcome to PM me with any questions.

I have an issue with your last statement. Allah and Yahweh are one and the same. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Allah is simply the Arabic title and Yahweh the Hebrew one. The distinction is purely linguistic and as Muslims we are required to believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Moses. If you dispute that who the Bible calls Yahweh and the Qur'an calls Allah are one and the same then you are denying the authority of the Qur'an itself which tells us it confirms the Scriptures which came before it and also tells us to follow Abraham.

It is not just a liguistic issue when it comes to YHWH. Eloah/Elohim is the Hebrew cognate of Allah, not YHWH. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob never knew Allah by YHWH. The Bible as we know it today is not even close to being the previous scriptures that the Qur'an refers to. This should be known due to the fact that the previous scriptures were corrupted.

YHWH is the demiurge who is falsely attributes himself to be Allah, and with the corruption of the Bible takes credit for Allah's works. In-depth study of the Bible and reference to other scriptures like the gnostic ones shows the true nature of YHWH. YHWH is a vengeful, limited, ignorant being who is unjust with the power that he does have. YHWH even admits to being a jealous being. Allah on the other hand is just, loving, all-knowing, forgiving, transcendant being who is far above and exalted such human emotions such as jealousy. There is none like unto Them and nothing happens outside of Their Will, what is there to be jealous about? As YHWH tries to set himself up to be worshipped as the Most High, he is equivelant to what Christians call Satan, Muslims call Iblis.

Allah was indeed the Lord of Christ. To further that YHWH and Allah are different ponder this

YHWH said "eye for an eye", while Jesus, messenger of Allah said "turn the other cheek".

YHWH taught revenge, Allah teaches forgivesness. Allah is attributed to being Most Merciful.

Faithful-Jinn

YHWH is the demiurge and is also the god of the Old Testament. The god of the Old Testament is not the True God and is not Allah. You're more than welcome to PM me with any questions.

It is not just a liguistic issue when it comes to YHWH. Eloah/Elohim is the Hebrew cognate of Allah, not YHWH. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob never knew Allah by YHWH. The Bible as we know it today is not even close to being the previous scriptures that the Qur'an refers to. This should be known due to the fact that the previous scriptures were corrupted.

YHWH is the demiurge who is falsely attributes himself to be Allah, and with the corruption of the Bible takes credit for Allah's works. In-depth study of the Bible and reference to other scriptures like the gnostic ones shows the true nature of YHWH. YHWH is a vengeful, limited, ignorant being who is unjust with the power that he does have. YHWH even admits to being a jealous being. Allah on the other hand is just, loving, all-knowing, forgiving, transcendant being who is far above and exalted such human emotions such as jealousy. There is none like unto Them and nothing happens outside of Their Will, what is there to be jealous about? As YHWH tries to set himself up to be worshipped as the Most High, he is equivelant to what Christians call Satan, Muslims call Iblis.

Allah was indeed the Lord of Christ. To further that YHWH and Allah are different ponder this

YHWH said "eye for an eye", while Jesus, messenger of Allah said "turn the other cheek".

YHWH taught revenge, Allah teaches forgivesness. Allah is attributed to being Most Merciful.

You're wrong... Even the Qur'an says if someone injures you that you may do equal harm to them, but if you restrain yourself it is better for you so basing it just off that is plain stupid. The Biblical law and the Qur'anic law are in tune with each other there.

545 Sahih International
And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

Why do you deny the Qur'an itself when it says that Allah is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Moses. Even if the previous Scriptures are corrupted as you say that doesn't mean there is not any truth in them. To say that the God of the Bible is actually the devil is blasphemous and extremely arrogant. Do you realize how stupid it is to base your argument on whether or not previous prophets knew God by Allah or Yahweh?

Obviously an old Hebrew prophet never called God Allah, because Allah is in the Arabic language and they spoke Hebrew! It's as simple as that! If you refuse to acknowledge this extremely simple concept, then you are calling the ancient prophets before Muhammad(pbuh) devil worshippers and you are calling God Himself the devil. Are you honestly saying Abraham, Isaac, and Moses worshipped and spoke to the devil?

May Allah inform us wherein we differ in the Hereafter. Lord have mercy on us all.

Student_of_Allah

Shalom Spear Man,

As for me, I hold my Salat the following way

Ablution
Stand in an appropriate place
Recite Qur'an, Glorify God.
Bow
Prostrate

I find Salat to lack any meaning if you dont hold on the system set by God. So, throughout the day, I seek to correct myself. Promote what is good, speak out against evil. Invite people to good. Strive for the sake of my Lord. Without walking on this path of God, Salat ends up being a robotic ritual without any impact on my life.

PEACE
------------- Student of Allah

Spear_Man

Shalom Spear Man,

As for me, I hold my Salat the following way

Ablution
Stand in an appropriate place
Recite Qur'an, Glorify God.
Bow
Prostrate

I find Salat to lack any meaning if you dont hold on the system set by God. So, throughout the day, I seek to correct myself. Promote what is good, speak out against evil. Invite people to good. Strive for the sake of my Lord. Without walking on this path of God, Salat ends up being a robotic ritual without any impact on my life.

PEACE
------------- Student of Allah

Thanks, would you be able to list portions of the Qur'an that describe how to pray? I know everyone is different, but I didn't know if you kept to doing the Salat the way that Sunni/Shia do it, or went solely by statements in the Qur'an, and followed Gods guidance for the rest. I have seen were some Christians will do that, mostly involving some Jewish element, but occasionally I have seen some involving some Muslim aspects as well, using God as their guide as they say.

Gnosis

You're wrong... Even the Qur'an says if someone injures you that you may do equal harm to them, but if you restrain yourself it is better for you so basing it just off that is plain stupid. The Biblical law and the Qur'anic law are in tune with each other there.

545 Sahih International
And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

Why do you deny the Qur'an itself when it says that Allah is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Moses. Even if the previous Scriptures are corrupted as you say that doesn't mean there is not any truth in them. To say that the God of the Bible is actually the devil is blasphemous and extremely arrogant. Do you realize how stupid it is to base your argument on whether or not previous prophets knew God by Allah or Yahweh?

Obviously an old Hebrew prophet never called God Allah, because Allah is in the Arabic language and they spoke Hebrew! It's as simple as that! If you refuse to acknowledge this extremely simple concept, then you are calling the ancient prophets before Muhammad(pbuh) devil worshippers and you are calling God Himself the devil. Are you honestly saying Abraham, Isaac, and Moses worshipped and spoke to the devil?

May Allah inform us wherein we differ in the Hereafter. Lord have mercy on us all.

Salaam,

You misunderstood me brother. What I mean is the things that Allah is responsible for doing, the Jews have given credit to YHWH doing in their scriptures, which is the Old Testament of the Bible. That is not the revealed word of Allah but is written by man. When these scriptures were written, they gave the credit for Allah's doing to their god YHWH. There is proof that YHWH is not truly Allah.

YHWH cursed his creation, he repented creating his creation. YHWH admitted when Adam and Eve ate from the tree, that they had become like him. All of this is blasphemous to attribute to Allah.

YHWH also lied to Adam and Eve about the nature of the tree in the garden. He prevented them from the tree of KNOWLEDGE. Ask yourself, why would a god want to keep you away from knowledge? Allah on the other hand stresses the importance of knowledge in the Qur'an. The tree is called the tree of DESIRE in the Qur'an (which makes sense, the moral being to fight your lower desires) not the tree of KNOWLEDGE. Also, take notice that the stories are taking place in two different realms. The spiritual realm (the Qur'an version of the story in Jannah) and the physical realm (the Biblical version of the story in Eden). Two totally different concepts.

It doesn't take a genius to realize how flawed, ignorant and imperfect YHWH is, all you have to do is read the first five chapters of Genesis and see for yourself. The gnostic scriptures speak in-depth on the subject. YHWH is so threatened by his own so called creation that he confuses the languages of the people who were actually working together as one. Such an event is NEVER mentioned in the Qur'an as Allah doing and for very good reason. In fact, the Qur'an tells us that Allah created mankind to know one another. Allah is not the author of confusion.

The fact that YHWH calls himself a "jealous god" (something the Qur'an never says about Allah) should raise a red flag. Allah has no needs and is Lord over all, He has no need to be jealous for everything belongs to Him. There is an individual mentioned in the Qur'an that was jealous of Allah's creation, his name was Iblis.

YHWH = Iblis pretending to be Allah and taking credit for Allah's glory, setting himself up to be worshipped and leading humanity down the stray path of destruction. All one has to do is study the nature of YHWH in the Bible and the nature of Allah in the Qur'an and you will see a huge contrast. Even in the verse from the Qur'an you quoted it points out that forgiveness is better. That little extra part dealing with forgiveness is better is absent in the Old Testament and makes a huge difference.

Maybe you sould try to engage in some meaning conversation with me about it instead of throwing the word stupid around. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it if I started pointing out how stupid I think you are.

Student_of_Allah

Shalom,

Sure. Let me refer you the Qur'anic influences

Ablution
Stand in an appropriate place
Recite Qur'an, Glorify God.
Bow 5. Prostrate

This is in shortcut how I can share my views I take such examples given in the Qur'an and try to live accordingly. If you are looking for instructions such as

Stand with 4.3 inches gap between your feet.
Then recite Surah 1, and Surah X.
Bow with an angle of 90 degree making sure one can safely balance a tennis ball in your back.
Prostrate with your nose hitting the ground first followed by your forehead
etc...etc.

I have to inform you in advance, that I found nothing similar to that. The examples presented in the Qur'an are flexible and in the realm of reason.

note that the above is not my article on how to perform Salat, but merely quick references for some actions in salat or related to salat.

PEACE

---------------- Student of Allah

Faithful-Jinn

You see you're missing my point entirely. You're saying that YHWH is not God because of the things the Bible get's wrong. You're COMPLETELY ignoring all of the good things God does in the Bible.

So you're saying that the devil is the one who revealed himself to Abraham, Isaac, and Moses? That the devil led the Israelites out of Egypt and cursed the Pharoah? The devil is the one who gave Moses the law and established the kingdom of Israel? The devil is the one who allowed the Israelite prophets to perform miracles and destroy the idolaters in the name of God? The devil is the one who bestowed mercy on countless people, and gave the Gospel to Jesus? The devil is the master of creation?

I see what you're saying in that the God that the Bible presents is not the same God as Allah because the Bible does not present Allah perfectly as the Qur'an does so you say that is the devil and not God. You believe because of the things the Bible does not get right that that is not God it presents.

But listen to this analogy I give you. I and my friend each draw a picture of my mother. My picture is perfect and I draw it directly while sitting in front of my mother. Let's call this the direct revelation of the Qur'an which paints a perfect and clear picture of the One God.

Now let's say my friend draws a picture of my mother, based off of other pictures he has seen of her. It is clearly my mom but he gets some things wrong because it is drawn from a second-hand perspective and he is not viewing her directly. Let's call this the imperfect revelation of the Bible which also paints a picture of the One God but one with errors and flaws.

Now can you deny that both pictures depict the same person though one is perfect and flawless and the other is flawed and imperfect? No you cannot because the picture is NOT my mother. My mother is my mother. The picture is only a depiction of my mother.

And likewise with revelation. The Qur'an is NOT God. God is God. The Bible is NOT God. God is God. Even though the Bible is written by fallible men does not make the God that they write about fallible.

Also your point of about the tree of knowledge. You say that God lied to them but He did not. It was not until Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge that they knew evil. It was not until they tasted of the fruit that they came to have knowledge of sin.

Here is some verses that affirm the stance you have I believe. It talks of how those who received earlier revelation twisted the words of scripture and instead took the devil as their lord.

By GOD, we have sent (messengers) to communities before you, but the devil adorned their works in their eyes. Consequently, he is now their lord, and they have incurred a painful retribution.
We have revealed this scripture to you, to point out for them what they dispute, and to provide guidance and mercy for people who believe.

I believe this is why you say the God depicted in the Bible is actually the devil. But look also at this verse.

2240 Sahih International
those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, "Our Lord is Allah ." And were it not that Allah checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of Allah is much mentioned. And Allah will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might.

In the Qur'an itself, God tells us that even in churches and synagogues His name is remembered so if you answer nothing else from my post then answer this question. Would you dispute with the word of Allah Himself?!

By making the claims you are making you are denying the proofs of the Qur'an itself. I believe you feel the distinction between the God depicted in the Qur'an and the God depicted in the Bible is so great that they are not the same God. But this distinction is great because you choose to magnify the things the Bible has wrong and ignore the truth contained in it.

And in doing so you are inadvertently calling your own God the devil. The most proud, vile, and evil of creatures. Forgive my harsh words but what you're saying is just mind-boggling to me and I couldn't contain myself.

Gnosis

You see you're missing my point entirely. You're saying that YHWH is not God because of the things the Bible get's wrong. You're COMPLETELY ignoring all of the good things God does in the Bible.

So you're saying that the devil is the one who revealed himself to Abraham, Isaac, and Moses? That the devil led the Israelites out of Egypt and cursed the Pharoah? The devil is the one who gave Moses the law and established the kingdom of Israel? The devil is the one who allowed the Israelite prophets to perform miracles and destroy the idolaters in the name of God? The devil is the one who bestowed mercy on countless people, and gave the Gospel to Jesus? The devil is the master of creation?

That's not what I'm saying at all. Allah revealed himself to the prophets but The Jews when writing their scriptures credited it to YHWH. I made this point clear in my last post.

Your analogy doesn't work here because we are not dealing with someone writing the perfect word of Allah and someone writing a imperfect word but rather dealing with Allah's spoken word itself. The words of the Qur'an are the direct words of Allah. Also, the fact that the scriptures were purposely corrupted makes your analogy not work either, which is proven in the ayat you gave yourself. The Jews dismissed both Isa and Muhammad as being prophets of Allah, so that alone is evidence that their god YHWH is not Allah.

Isa spoke Aramiac and was from the House of Israel. Why didn't he ever call his god YHWH? Obviously because YHWH wasn't his god, Allah was as this is what he called him, or rather Elah, the Aramaic cognate. That is what Moses would have called him too because he spoke Aramaic. The name YHWH has no relation whatsoever to the name Allah.

If you were to read the gnostic text, scriptures which were purposely left out of the Bible, you would understand the concept better. The Bible is a huge enchantment by Satan on mankind. Of course it's gonna mention some good things YHWH supposedly did, that's the trick!

The last verse you quoted reveals itsel to be irrelevant too, because it specifically says those who say "our Lord is ALLAH" not "our lord is YHWH", so you pretty much proved my points with the scriptures you quoted lol.

It seems mind boggling to you because I'm presenting information to you that you never considered before, but that's doesn't mean it's untrue ad hey it doesn't mean it's true either. But to dismiss what I'm saing without consideration and pondering on where I'm coming from is a sign of a closed, conditioned mind.

Faithful-Jinn

That's not what I'm saying at all. Allah revealed himself to the prophets but The Jews when writing their scriptures credited it to YHWH. I made this point clear in my last post.

Your analogy doesn't work here because we are not dealing with someone writing the perfect word of Allah and someone writing a imperfect word but rather dealing with Allah's spoken word itself. The words of the Qur'an are the direct words of Allah. Also, the fact that the scriptures were purposely corrupted makes your analogy not work either, which is proven in the ayat you gave yourself. The Jews dismissed both Isa and Muhammad as being prophets of Allah, so that alone is evidence that their god YHWH is not Allah.

Isa spoke Aramiac and was from the House of Israel. Why didn't he ever call his god YHWH? Obviously because YHWH wasn't his god, Allah was as this is what he called him, or rather Elah, the Aramaic cognate. That is what Moses would have called him too because he spoke Aramaic. The name YHWH has no relation whatsoever to the name Allah.

If you were to read the gnostic text, scriptures which were purposely left out of the Bible, you would understand the concept better. The Bible is a huge enchantment by Satan on mankind. Of course it's gonna mention some good things YHWH supposedly did, that's the trick!

The last verse you quoted reveals itsel to be irrelevant too, because it specifically says those who say "our Lord is ALLAH" not "our lord is YHWH", so you pretty much proved my points with the scriptures you quoted lol.

It seems mind boggling to you because I'm presenting information to you that you never considered before, but that's doesn't mean it's untrue ad hey it doesn't mean it's true either. But to dismiss what I'm saing without consideration and pondering on where I'm coming from is a sign of a closed, conditioned mind.

So your entire point is that Allah is the name of God and not YHWH... Even though God has hundreds of names you are singling out YHWH as a name that in your eyes, God cannot be called by. Okay I thought your point was something more complex than that originally but it is simply that YHWH is not God's proper name so in attributing that NAME to God you are associating others with Allah? There's no logic in that. I am pondering where you're coming from which is why I produced those verses supporting your viewpoint but your argument is more elementary and basic than I thought it was. All you have to say is that YHWH is not His proper name... But Allah literally has hundreds or thousands of names in many different tongues so your point in my opinion is entirely moot. In fact he has 100 names in Arabic alone. That's like saying Jesus is not really Isa because his Hebrew name was Yashua and so the name Jesus does not describe the Prophet Isa correctly.

If your argument was based on scripture I kind of understood that but if all you have to say is "YHWH is not his name Allah is!" then I have nothing further to say.

Gnosis

So your entire point is that Allah is the name of God and not YHWH... Even though God has hundreds of names you are singling out YHWH as a name that in your eyes, God cannot be called by. Okay I thought your point was something more complex than that originally but it is simply that YHWH is not God's proper name so in attributing that NAME to God you are associating others with Allah? There's no logic in that. I am pondering where you're coming from which is why I produced those verses supporting your viewpoint but your argument is more elementary and basic than I thought it was. All you have to say is that YHWH is not His proper name... But Allah literally has hundreds or thousands of names in many different tongues so your point in my opinion is entirely moot. In fact he has 100 names in Arabic alone. That's like saying Jesus is not really Isa because his Hebrew name was Yashua and so the name Jesus does not describe the Prophet Isa correctly.

If your argument was based on scripture I kind of understood that but if all you have to say is "YHWH is not his name Allah is!" then I have nothing further to say.

Wow, I spoke very clear english and went through all that trouble explaining myself and all you got out of that was that you think I'm just dealing with a name?

I have nothing more to say to you lol if you can't grasp simple concept that the Jews god YHWH is different than Allah you'll never grasp the point being addressed here. Of course Allah has multiple names. Is Baal one of them? No, because we know that was a pagan god. So if a person says they worship Baal, they are not worshipping Allah. It's the same with YHWH, if they say they are worshipping YHWH, then they are not worshipping Allah, because YHWH is not the same being as Allah, though the Jews have credited the works of Allah to YHWH in the scriptures that they written with their own hands.

I don't know how to be much clearer. It's really not that difficult to comprehend.

Faithful-Jinn

Wow, I spoke very clear english and went through all that trouble explaining myself and all you got out of that was that you think I'm just dealing with a name?

I have nothing more to say to you lol if you can't grasp simple concept that the Jews god YHWH is different than Allah you'll never grasp the point being addressed here. Of course Allah has multiple names. Is Baal one of them? No, because we know that was a pagan god. So if a person says they worship Baal, they are not worshipping Allah. It's the same with YHWH, if they say they are worshipping YHWH, then they are not worshipping Allah, because YHWH is not the same being as Allah, though the Jews have credited the works of Allah to YHWH in the scriptures that they written with their own hands.

I don't know how to be much clearer. It's really not that difficult to comprehend.

Except the problem is though the Bible claims these works in the name of YHWH (and also other names like Jehovah and Elohim can you address that?) the Qur'an CONFIRMS these same works in the name of Allah and makes it CLEAR that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the same God revealing Himself to Muhammad.

Are you telling me that when the Qur'an mentions Ar-Rahman that that's a different God than Allah? I mean they do have different names!

When the Qur'an mentions Maliki-Yaumi-Deen it must be a different God! As well as Ar-Rahim, Al-Adl', Al-Malik, Al-Hakam, Al-Haqq, Al-Awwal, Al-Akhir, Al-Batin, and Az-Zahir.

By your logic the Qur'an must be talking about almost a hundred different gods!
<b></b>

Gnosis

Except the problem is though the Bible claims these works in the name of YHWH (and also other names like Jehovah and Elohim can you address that?) the Qur'an CONFIRMS these same works in the name of Allah and makes it CLEAR that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the same God revealing Himself to Muhammad.

Are you telling me that when the Qur'an mentions Ar-Rahman that that's a different God than Allah? I mean they do have different names!

When the Qur'an mentions Maliki-Yaumi-Deen it must be a different God! As well as Ar-Rahim, Al-Adl', Al-Malik, Al-Hakam, Al-Haqq, Al-Awwal, Al-Akhir, Al-Batin, and Az-Zahir.

By your logic the Qur'an must be talking about almost a hundred different gods!
<b></b>

I have nothing more to say to you about the matter. I explained my self clear and you go and twist everything I said due to you not being able to comprehend something so simple. You're even naive enough to think that the Bible, a book written clearly by man, is the same previous scriptures that Qur'an confirms. I don't know what part of the Jews wrote their own scriptures aka the Old Testament you don't understand. Since they are it's authors, the Old Testament obviously cannot be the true previous scriptures the Qur'an is talking about, for the true Torah (which no longer exist) was a revelation from Allah, not a book written by man like the Old Testament. You don't even have the knwoledge to realize that Jehovah and YHWH is the same name. I explained Elohim being a cognate of Allah in a previous post if only you would read and ponder on what I said instead of trying to be critical and objective. Remain in your ignorance and thoughts.

I seek refuge in Allah from the ignorant.

Gnosis

Salaam,

Let me apologize for that previous post. I was a bit aggravated at the time I posted it and for some reason it won't let me edit the post.

I know the information I am presenting could be hard to fully understand because its different than anything presented before, but I guarantee you I only present it after having a strong conviction of its truth with evidence to support it. Right now I am at work but insha'Allah I will post a new topic on the subject with in depth details and evidence when I get back home. I'm sorry for straying away from the original topic of this post.

youssef4342

Peace & Welcome peace group

Part 1 Allah(&#1607 and YHWH (&#1492

*Allah(&#1607 and YHWH (&#1492 are the same god, just different names. Allah is probably made up of the arabic AL-ILAH (&#1607, "The god". YHWH, as a name might mean "the one who exists", as it's similar to Hebrew Expression, which is said by God Almighty himself in the Torah, when Moses asked him about HIS name, as "Ehyah ashr Ehyah" (I am who I am/will be) (Hebrew &#1492(Transliterated as AhYH ASR AhYH) Notice how the ending of AhYH () is similar to the begining of of YHWH (&#1492.
(&#1492 means to "be/exist, and thus it can be concluded that the name YHWH(&#1492, can mean "I am who Exist/will be"
http//ha-shem.followersofyah.com/B-Earl-Allen/chapter_08.htm
Moreover, there is a shortened/poetic form of the name YHWH(&#1492, which is simply YH(&#1492, pronounced YAH,(Psalm 684) as in Hallelu-Yah (praise God).
This shorted form has been included in MANY names of the bible, and also cited in some names of the Quran. (Note Names have meanings) (Zakar-YAH ) = YAH (God Remembered). Eliyas(&#1587 equivalent to Hebrew Eliyahu (&#1493 = My God is YAH).
Thus it can be said that the name is indeed correct, and not fabricated, because it has been cited in all scriptures (The NT Mentions it in the Aramaic Version)
As a note, this is just one of God's Glorious Names, there are also other names in the Bible for God, as El Shaddai (God Almighty, Elyon (God Most High), etc

*Consider the fact that 11 states that "With/In the Name of Allah". This can mean that Allah is actually a title, like the Hebrew "Eloah "(God). There is also Allahom(&#1605, which is the cognate of the Hebrew Plural-of-respect of Eloah(god), Eloahim(&#1501.
English God -----------------------------------
Aramaic Alaha ------------------------
Hebrew Eloah ---------------------------
Arabic allah --------------------------------[A-L-L-H

Sources
http//ha-shem.followersofyah.com/B-Earl-Allen/index.htm
http//www.jews-for-allah.org/
http//www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/YHWH.html

Part 2 SALAT

Salat Positions

In Some matters (as salat and homosexuality), God Almighty does not come out and state explicitly of the commandment, but he does give us example of how people did them. There is no commandment that stipulates that man should not llie down with man in the Quran, just like the Torah stipulates. Nevertheless, we do have an example of Lot's people, who, by their doing (homosexuality), were transgressing. And so, if anyone today is still committing homosexuality, They would logically also be trangressing as per (781)

Similarly, There is no prescribed Step-by-step way of doing the salat in the Quran. nevertheless, we do have example of how people did them.
Now there can actually be 3 positions of Salat

ZakarYAH Standing doing his salat (339)
Believers do their salat while bowing/kneeling (555)
Muhammed Ending his Salat by Prostrating (4102)

Moreover, the sole purpose of Doing the salat is to remember God Almighty (2014), and not the quantity of bowing/kneeling.
Thus, one can conclude that most of the duration of the salat is spend during standing position, and the bowing/kneeling position, and that there has to be 1 prostration, because that is the end of our salat as per 4102.

***For the Bowing/Kneeling position, some translate Rk3 ( ), as bowing, and some translate it as kneeling.
We can get a glimps of this position as David "fell down" and did his rkoo3" in 3824, and also, solomon, "fell down", as the animal ate his staff when he was dead 3414.
***Thus Rk3 (&#1593 has to be come about from a position of high potential (e.g standing), into a position of low potential (e.g bowing/kneeling)

The Manners of Salat

*We should try to Remember God Almighty as much as possible during Salat, as it is its Sole purpose (2014)
*We should do our salat in a state of Reverance/Devoutness (223
*Good news is anounced to those who do their salat in a humble manner (232),
*We should not do our salat Heedlessly (1054-5), or in a state of intoxication, where we're heedless of what we're saying (443)

How Many daily salats(prayers) are there?

The Quran is not missing anything (63. We find that there are only 3 names of Salats in the Quran, (i.e Fajr, Esha, Wusta (2458 & 223). This means that there has to be only 3 Salats. This is because the Quran states that it is not missing anything (63, and so, if there is 3 NAMES of Salats mentioned, then logically, there has to be only 3 Salats.

The Daily Prayers were always done 3 times a day (Salat = Aramaic 'sloota' (Prayer) and Hebrew Tfillah/Amidah (standing prayer)
Which is basically the 3 daily prayers evening, morning, and noon (see psalm 5517, Daniel 610)
New Testament's 3 times for prayer 3rth, 6th, and 9th hours,
The Quran's 3 names of Salat (Fajr, Esha, Wusta in 2458 and 223

Three Salat (Prayers) Authorised in the Quran
http//www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/number_of_salat_(P1200).html
Support for a middle salat (i.e 3rd salat)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603015.0

As a scriptural background

Salat is equivilant of the Aramaic 'sloota' (Prayer) and the Hebrew Tfillah (prayer) or Amidah (standing prayer) Which is basically the 3 daily prayers evening, morning, and noon (see psalm 5517, Daniel 610, and the New Testament's times for prayer 3rth, 6th, and 9th hours, all of which shadow the Quran's 3 names of prayer (Dawn, evening, and middle prayer Quran 2458 and 223
Some Jews and Samaritans today still pray 3 daily prayers
Watch even the "Jewish salat", and you can find the descriptions of the prayer from the Talmud & the laws concerning prayer
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aHWASyMjwg

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