Quranism and Sufism?
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Salam, I happened to have recently stop believing in the hadiths because of many horrible things I have read in them and because we cannot be 100% sure whether they are authentic. I was just wandering whether you can be a Quranist and a Sufi at the same time, I am not sure what opinion the Quranists hold about Tasawwuf/Sufism.
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Shalom,
As long as you do not have to compromise the word of God, do not have to invent lies in His name, it should be fine. Let me give you an example. If you teach people that sitting in a room together and chanting the name of God for hours and hours is a "Righteous" deed. I would see you as an innovator, moreover, a liar who attributes lies to God. The system is perfect as it is, as long as you do not have to go against the system to practice whatever it is that you want to do, it should be fine.
Be a muslim.
Peace
------------------- Student of Allah -
Greetings and Peace, all group
Salam, I happened to have recently stop believing in the hadiths because of many horrible things I have read in them and because we cannot be 100% sure whether they are authentic. I was just wandering whether you can be a Quranist and a Sufi at the same time, I am not sure what opinion the Quranists hold about Tasawwuf/Sufism.
Many people (but not all) called "Quranists" would disagree with the label--they are muslims or monotheists or submitters or believers or seekers or GOD alone...and so forth. The connotation attached to the word "Quranists" is sometimes negative/offensive.
It also depends on what you mean by Sufi. It means different things to different people. If a Sufi must use extra-Quranic hadith, the answer is no. If a Sufi is one who strives in this life to fully follow/please ALLAH by following ALLAH's Guidance, my opinion is yes--such a person seems to be striving for the highest rank that they can achieve. Opinions will vary, but truth is never a popularity contest.
4125 And who is better in the system than the one who submits himself to GOD, and he is a good doer, and he follows the creed of Abraham in monotheism? And GOD took Abraham as a friend.
4133 And who is better in saying than he who invites to GOD, and does good works, and says "I am one of those who have submitted."
In order to attain the highest rank possible for a person, ISA, one of the best paths is for a person to follow and apply the Guidance of the entire Qur'an.
May ALLAH see fit to guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Salam/Shalom/Peace again.
Sufis such as the whirling dervishes do not say that doing what they are doing is a righteous deed, it is just a way of loving God ,invented by God inspired persons such us Rumi or Naqshbandi. The sufi practices are not only based on zikr but there's a lot of meditation taken into place as well. I have very strong leaning towards sufism- not based on the hadith but upon the wisdom of the dervish teachers.
I too do not like to name myself a quranist but it was just a way to clarify my beliefs.
Thank you for the answers, Salam/Shalom! laugh
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Peace everyone. MSW. I find Rumi to be very good in his emphasis for love. If you go to of topic and check out under a post called favorite poems and quotes I have posted some of my favourite poems and w quote by Rumi who was a sufi master.
However if something that some sufi master says but it goes against your interpretation of the Quran then you have to reject what the sufi master says.
I don't agree entirely with the way that sufis interpret the Quran. Quran is preaty clear on hell for instance while sufis believe that we will all go to heaven.
So the bottom line is you can enjoy the sufi poetry but God in the Quran forbids sects. The following is from the Quran
The Monotheist Group (en) Chapter 6 6159 Those who have divided their system and become sects, you are not with them in anything. Their matter will be with God, then He will inform them of what they had done. Chapter 30 3032 From those who have divided their system and become sects, each group is happy with what it has.
Sufis are a sect, same ad sinister and all others. The only non sectarian Islam is based on the teachings of Quran only.
Thanks
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Peace everyone. MSW. I find Rumi to be very good in his emphasis for love. If you go to of topic and check out under a post called favorite poems and quotes I have posted some of my favourite poems and w quote by Rumi who was a sufi master.
However if something that some sufi master says but it goes against your interpretation of the Quran then you have to reject what the sufi master says.
I don't agree entirely with the way that sufis interpret the Quran. Quran is preaty clear on hell for instance while sufis believe that we will all go to heaven.
So the bottom line is you can enjoy the sufi poetry but God in the Quran forbids sects. The following is from the Quran
The Monotheist Group (en) Chapter 6 6159 Those who have divided their system and become sects, you are not with them in anything. Their matter will be with God, then He will inform them of what they had done. Chapter 30 3032 From those who have divided their system and become sects, each group is happy with what it has.
Sufis are a sect, same ad sinister and all others. The only non sectarian Islam is based on the teachings of Quran only.
Thanks
Perhaps all of us are going to heaven in the end after all
To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle Such is Our reward for those in sin.
But then again, maybe not
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Why wouldn't everyone go to Jannah? God is oft-forgiving and merciful. Sufis hope that everybody will be allowed into heaven so they pray for every sould. However, Rumi said " If I were to keep my hand open or closed all the time , I would be called paralysed."
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Why wouldn't everyone go to Jannah? God is oft-forgiving and merciful. Sufis hope that everybody will be allowed into heaven so they pray for every sould. However, Rumi said " If I were to keep my hand open or closed all the time , I would be called paralysed."
Peace. Personally, if that's what God wanted, then who would I be to question Him. But to take few verses of the Quran and to ignore the other is plain wrong. You have to accept the reality for what it is.
And instead of trying to injenere God uncover Him. Because we Fajr injenere Him. It's Him who injeneres everything and everyone.
Thanks
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Why wouldn't everyone go to Jannah? God is oft-forgiving and merciful. Sufis hope that everybody will be allowed into heaven so they pray for every sould. However, Rumi said " If I were to keep my hand open or closed all the time , I would be called paralysed."
Because some do not believe in God and some, even worse, hate God. Should they get the same reward as those of us who strive to be good and straight? God is just as well as forgiving and merciful. Jannah is not a free for all. He gave us the manual, what we do with it is up to us. If we sin or falter we can seek his forgiveness and mercy. But to do nothing and still expect His forgiveness and mercy is not logical and it goes against Quran.
68 25-36 Do you expect Us to treat those who surrendered their wills to Us in the same way We treat the wicked? What's wrong with you that you would assume that?
Everytime I say the word Quranist, I feel like I need dig out my old dungeons and dragons books and my D20 dice...lol
I do prefer just Muslim, but then some do ask you are you sunni or shia. So I can understand using this term. Now I just say I am what Muhammad was. The sunni then assume I am sunni and the Shia think I am Shia...lol
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From what I see from the Qur'an everybody, everything returns to God,
but as in the very fatiha says, the returning is the question. We can return sirat al mustaqim or through more difficult ways. Some ways may be more than dificult, plain torture, so justice indeed is there. But why would somebody get eternal bliss for non eternal goodness and others eternal torment for non eternal badness? Nothing is eternal except God, and to be eternal we must and will return to Him.Salaam
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From what I see from the Qur'an everybody, everything returns to God,
but as in the very fatiha says, the returning is the question. We can return sirat al mustaqim or through more difficult ways. Some ways may be more than dificult, plain torture, so justice indeed is there. But why would somebody get eternal bliss for non eternal goodness and others eternal torment for non eternal badness? Nothing is eternal except God, and to be eternal we must and will return to Him.Salaam
Salam Huruf and thank you!
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I think we shouldn't run to adscribe people to sects. If people adscribe themselves, tht is their business,but I do not hink one should adscribe somebody else to a sect. It my be tht we see traits which we think are those of such and such sect, but, let us keept it like that, that in that person we see those traits. If we put peole into sects, then we are strengthening sects, giving them a chart of recognition.
On the other hand it is not tru that sufism is a sect. Far from it, so much so, that sufis come in every kind, authentic and sham, sunnis, shias and everything else, madhhabs and non madhhab.
Putting every self called sufi into the same bundle goes against facts.
There are many muslims who refuse to be called anything else, and of these, some are sufis.
Salaam
Salaam
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Salaam Abdul-Hadi,
I attempted to message you personally, but you have blocked personal messages for some reason, so I'll ask you on the thread.
I have never found a definition of the word Isa, but liked your definition and wondered if you just invented it or had a reference to it, if you have a reference to it would you share it, your definition was
the highest rank possible for a person = ISAI did a translation of a single verse on my website and that definition fits in with the general feel of the verse, thanks in advance for your help,
Abdun Nur
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Salaam Abdul-Hadi,
I attempted to message you personally, but you have blocked personal messages for some reason, so I'll ask you on the thread.
I have never found a definition of the word Isa, but liked your definition and wondered if you just invented it or had a reference to it, if you have a reference to it would you share it, your definition was
the highest rank possible for a person = ISAI did a translation of a single verse on my website and that definition fits in with the general feel of the verse, thanks in advance for your help,
Abdun Nur
The entire sentence I had stated was "In order to attain the highest rank possible for a person, ISA, one of the best paths is for a person to follow and apply the Guidance of the entire Qur'an."
That is to say they are a monotheist who submits to ALLAH, actively does good works and invites others to the system of monotheism. This is what AQ teaches--and if applied it should lead to success.
ISA is shorthand for Insha'ALLAH...just like IMO=in my opinion, AQ=Al Qur'an, et cetera. AQ teaches monotheism, and the quoted Ayat (4125 and 4133) are support for the claim of highest rank. However, if ALLAH wills otherwise, (thus the ISA), ALLAH knows and we do not.
ALLAH knows best
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Salam everyone. MSW, I am primarily interested in the truth as it is. And acording to scriptures and my experiences I explain it as I see it.
the way you interpret the Quran is in a way just as valid as everyone elses. You can only believe in what you believe. I interpret it more or less as its written and you have yours interpretation. I will still consider you as a Muslim, ad long as you go by the Quran only and in the end its up to God to judge, Not me or anyone else!
Thanks
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Peace everyone. MSW, i have been thinking about many things lately and have come to see sufist interpretation of religion probably as the best one and closest to truth.
I mean if you go to of topic section you can see under favorite poems and quotations that my favorite ones are from sufi's and other mystics who emphasise the problem of ego that we face.
Thanks