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  4. "Signs" of End Times

"Signs" of End Times

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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    MesMorial
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    After all other arguments have been debunked, the most effective way to keep Sunnism going is to induce fear

    http//www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12784

    They follow a pattern of taking what is considered natural and/or Islamic (they like the prohibition of musical instruments and female singing), and reversing it (reflecting trends?). For example, I thought of a prophecy in 2 seconds by replacing humans with dogs "People will live in kennels and dogs will live in palaces." This would have the necessary effect on impressionable people.

    As for the others, it is a tactic not to quote the whole thing. The one which predicts people building higher buildings and slaves giving birth to their masters also says that Gabriel came down to ask Muhammad the signs of the Last Day (in front of everyone). This is against Qur'an 68.

    Contradiction

    Anas said, "We were discussing the fact that the Hour would not come until there is no rain, the earth does not produce crops, and fifty women will be cared for by one man; and if a woman passes by a man, he will look at her and say, 'This woman once had a husband'." (Ahmad.)

    So how can this be true if one of the signs was acidic rain?

    The prophecy about the fire (volcano) came from an eruption about 11 years after Muhammad supposedly died.

    They predict the conquest of India, which include Jesus coming back. Shortly after the conquest of Constantinople, the Dajjal was supposed to emerge (but he didn't).

    Muhammad and the Last Day were supposed to be as close as 100 years (according to one), while other sahih ahadith say that it was as close to Muhammad as his forefinger to his middle finger.

    Moreover, we know the Qur'an is completely against this as shown in my article "The Messenger Did Not Know the Future" (see the next post).

    The topic is irrelevant to "Sunna", except to show that the prophecy of rejecting Sunna (which was already occurring) further affects their credibility.

    However, there is one interesting one

    "A man will leave his home and his thigh or shore or whip will tell him what is happening back at his home (Ahmad)

    A cellphone is not a shoe unless you are Maxwell Smart, it is not a whip (they do not have antennas), and we do not find out what is happening if the phone is still in the pocket.

    It is interesting to consider what the concept of that one was.

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      MesMorial
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Some people cling to the alleged role of the Messenger as a foreteller of future events beyond the Qur?an. They do this to justify ahadith, but firstly it does not affect any argument about the Qur?an being enough, and secondly it represents a glaring contradiction to Islam

      ?On the day when Allah will assemble the messengers, then say What answer were you given? They shall say We have no knowledge, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.?

      5109

      (Essentially he did not know what people would do once he passed. We can rule out prophecies of conquests (for example). This obviously occurs before 2530, which takes place after the people are judged (2523).)

      ?Say I do not say to you, I have with me the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; I do not follow aught save that which is revealed to me. Say Are the blind and the seeing one alike? Do you not then reflect??

      650

      (Revelation was only the Qur?an (223, 263, 291, 2176, 619, 6114-115, 6157, 7144-147, 7169-171, 12111, 179, 1788, 1827, 20123-124, 2127, 2145, 2216, 2254, 2373, 2856, 3923, 456 etc.).)

      ?They ask you about the hour, when will be its taking place? Say The knowledge of it is only with my Lord; none but He shall manifest it at its time; it will be momentous in the heavens and the earth; it will not come on you but of a sudden. They ask you as if you were solicitous about it. Say Its knowledge is only with Allah, but most people do not know. Say I do not control any benefit or harm for my own soul except as Allah please; and had I known the unseen I would have had much of good and no evil would have touched me; I am nothing but a warner and the giver of good news to a people who believe.?

      7187-188

      (The Day of Judgement is sudden, and therefore there can be no ?warning signs?. Quite clearly he did not know the future, and he could not guide himself past following the Revelation. How then could we expect him to guide us?)

      ?Say I am only a mortal like you; it is revealed to me that your god is one Allah, therefore whoever hopes to meet his Lord, he should do good deeds, and not join any one in the service of his Lord.?

      18110

      (If Prophet Muhammad is only a mortal like everyone else, then like everyone else he cannot tell the future.)

      ?Men ask you about the hour; say The knowledge of it is only with Allah, and what will make you comprehend that the hour may be nigh.?

      3363

      (i.e. the Messenger did not actually know the signs of the End Times.)

      ?Say I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.?

      469

      (The Messenger had no mission past delivering the Qur?an. He did not bring any other Revelation, and nor was he an explainer. This ayah rules out any ahadith describing ?intercession? (and there is quite a number!). Any hadith where the plight of Messengers or people is described should henceforth be discarded, especially those describing Muslim conquests.)

      ?Do they then wait for aught but the hour that it should come to them all of a sudden? Now indeed the tokens of it have (already) come, but how shall they have their reminder when it comes on them??

      4718

      (The signs of the End Times had already occurred. 4710 provides an idea of this

      ?Have they not then journeyed in the land and seen how was the end of those before them Allah brought down destruction upon them, and the unbelievers shall have the like of it.?

      4710.)

      ?This is of the announcements relating to the unseen which We reveal to you.?

      344

      ?On no account will Allah leave the believers in the condition which you are in until He separates the evil from the good; nor is Allah going to make you acquainted with the unseen, but Allah chooses of His messengers whom He pleases.?

      3179

      ?The Knower of the unseen! so He does not reveal His secrets to any, except to him whom He chooses and who is a messenger. Then surely He makes a guard to march before him and after him, so that He may know that they have truly proclaimed the messages of their Lord, and He encompasses what is with them and He records the number of all things.?

      7226-28

      (These ayat clarify that the only part of the unseen that is revealed is the Message.)

      Let us look at the purpose of the ?Night Journey?

      ?And nothing could have hindered Us that We should send signs except that the ancients rejected them; and We gave to Samood the she-camel-- a manifest sign-- but on her account they did injustice, and We do not send signs but to make (men) fear. And when We said to you Surely your Lord encompasses men; and We did not make the vision which We showed you but a trial for men and the cursed tree in the Quran as well; and We cause them to fear, but it only adds to their great inordinacy.?

      1759-60

      ?And He revealed to His servant what He revealed. The heart was not untrue in (making him see) what he saw. What! do you then dispute with him as to what he saw? And certainly he saw him (perhaps Gabriel) in another descent, at the farthest lote-tree; near which is the garden, the place to be resorted to. When that which covers covered the lote-tree; the eye did not turn aside, nor did it exceed the limit. Certainly he saw of the greatest signs of his Lord.?

      5310-18

      Muhammad received a major sign (additional but complimentary to the Message) just as the previous Messengers did. He may have received more Qur?anic ayat (signs) whilst on this journey, but it is clear that the purpose here was to see Paradise (although barely visible). This is the trial for us to see whether we care or believe.

      To say he received knowledge of the future is contradictory to the prior ayat listed, and innovates on the purpose of these signs.

      If he did receive extra-Qur?anic knowledge of the future, one must explain how this affects the ?Qur?an-alone? position.

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