Christian miracles
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What do you guys think of Christian miracles. For example, it's been known that the Virgin Mary makes frequent appearances to Christians throughout the world. She even appeared here in Egypt, with the most famous time being in the 60s. I saw a video of it on YouTube. I talked to some Muslim friends and they said it doesn't matter because we Muslims believe in the Virgin Mary. But why does she always appear in churches and only to Christians?
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What do you guys think of Christian miracles. For example, it's been known that the Virgin Mary makes frequent appearances to Christians throughout the world. She even appeared here in Egypt, with the most famous time being in the 60s. I saw a video of it on YouTube. I talked to some Muslim friends and they said it doesn't matter because we Muslims believe in the Virgin Mary. But why does she always appear in churches and only to Christians?
Shalom Aleikhom,
It is because that is the only market where you can sell such products without critical examination of the evidence and proper reasoning.
Let us consider the cases where the witness is not a liar
The human mind is extremely susceptible to hallucinations*. That is the reason why you never hear that krishna appeared in a church, Virgin** Mary appearing to a Buddhist monk, or Buddha appearing in a Jewish synagogue. People report all kind of miracles, why should I believe in them ? What has a belief in Allah (thus belief in the existence of mother of Jesus) got to do with our deen ? If God so wants to perform miracles all over the globe, why not feed the poor only one meal instead of appearing to strangers for no reason ?
Sometimes people see God's name /Jesus face on clouds, well, personally I have witnessed cloud shapes which resemble funny body parts. I have witnessed fruits deformed and looking like "funny body parts".... there comes a time when we must stop deluding ourselves and think about the elephant in the room, REALITY. These baseless hadiths distracts us from serving God, they delude us into superstitious way of thinking that serves no one but your wishful thinking.
I hope God increases us in knowledge and increase the bond between us and guide us to His straight path.
Peace be on you.
- Thanks Richard Dawkins for this phrase .
** Was she a virgin all her life ?
---------------------------------------------------- Student of Allah
- Thanks Richard Dawkins for this phrase .
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Peace,
** Was she a virgin all her life ?
Was just about to say that. I find it sad that the Muslims are deluded into that, taking it from the Christian faith (amongst many other things). They see "Kun fayakun" and even use the creation of Adam to state their belief in the virgin birth. While indeed God only needs to say "Be", it doesn't mean that things happen with a snap of a finger. Good example is the creation of the Universe. However, many Muslims do not see the correlation and see the magnificence of Allah.
Peace
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Peace,
Was just about to say that. I find it sad that the Muslims are deluded into that, taking it from the Christian faith (amongst many other things). They see "Kun fayakun" and even use the creation of Adam to state their belief in the virgin birth. While indeed God only needs to say "Be", it doesn't mean that things happen with a snap of a finger. Good example is the creation of the Universe. However, many Muslims do not see the correlation and see the magnificence of Allah.
Peace
Salamun Alaikum,
Love you for saying that, you spoke my mind yay
Their interpretation is based on emotion and social pressure and tradition and everything other than the Qur'an.
So God creates like "Kun fawakun"/"Be and it is" ? Which they take to mean instantaneous ? Let me share a dialogue between me and a dear friend (we were discussing adam/evolution/virgin birth)
Friend but God said its like Adam, who was also "kun fawakun" because that is how God creates...
Me So the heaven and earth were created instantly ?
Friend no in 6 Days or something...
Me But you just said that "For God to create....Be and it is...", so if "be and it is" means INSTANT and not "He wills so it happens" ...you see the trouble you get into.. ?
Friend hmmm... ---Blank---
Me Who created you ?
Friend God
Me For God to create something....."be and it is"..... ???!! ?? You wont lie to me that you just materialized instantly out of thin air...will you ?
Friend mmm..... ---Blank---
The funny thing is that you dont need EXTREME KNOWLEDGE to understand this, just those simple questions I asked him or any similar questions works just well for the rational. There are many rational people I know who get emotional when it comes to VIRGIN MARY and EVOLUTION.
Anyways, do you like rabbits ? Only asking because of your avatar...you seem to love them.
Peace
------------ Student of Allah -
Peace,
Was just about to say that. I find it sad that the Muslims are deluded into that, taking it from the Christian faith (amongst many other things). They see "Kun fayakun" and even use the creation of Adam to state their belief in the virgin birth. While indeed God only needs to say "Be", it doesn't mean that things happen with a snap of a finger. Good example is the creation of the Universe. However, many Muslims do not see the correlation and see the magnificence of Allah.
Peace
So lemme get this straight, so are u guys saying that Maryam didnt have a virgin birth? But its clearly stated in the Quran ryt? What else do you suppose those verses mean...
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So lemme get this straight, so are u guys saying that Maryam didnt have a virgin birth? But its clearly stated in the Quran ryt? What else do you suppose those verses mean...
Salam,
Please point out where it says that. It would be nice to discuss that.
Peace
------------- Student of Allah -
Salam,
Please point out where it says that. It would be nice to discuss that.
Peace
------------- Student of AllahIm sure u know the exact verses in Sura Maryam... bt since u ask, here it is
'I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son.'
She said'How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?' He (the angel) said
'So (it will be), your Lord said 'That is easy for Me And to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (from God)', and it is a matter (already) decreed (by God).' " (Quran 1916-21)
ALSO,
"Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said
'O Maryam! Indeed you have brought a thing which is greatly evil! O sister of Haron (i.e. O you who we consider the like of Haron, who was a pious man at the time of Mary)! Your father was not a bad man (adulterous), nor was your mother an unchaste woman.' Then she pointed to him (to the baby). (Quran 1927-29)
Its clear she was never touched by any man until the birth of Isa. So there cannot be an inch of confusion about the matter nor space to twist the meaning of those verses.
That was Isa, the son of Maryam, and this is the truth of this matter, about which they continue to doubt.
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Peace,
Salamun Alaikum,
Love you for saying that, you spoke my mind yay
Their interpretation is based on emotion and social pressure and tradition and everything other than the Qur'an.
So God creates like "Kun fawakun"/"Be and it is" ? Which they take to mean instantaneous ? Let me share a dialogue between me and a dear friend (we were discussing adam/evolution/virgin birth)
Friend but God said its like Adam, who was also "kun fawakun" because that is how God creates...
Me So the heaven and earth were created instantly ?
Friend no in 6 Days or something...
Me But you just said that "For God to create....Be and it is...", so if "be and it is" means INSTANT and not "He wills so it happens" ...you see the trouble you get into.. ?
Friend hmmm... ---Blank---
Me Who created you ?
Friend God
Me For God to create something....."be and it is"..... ???!! ?? You wont lie to me that you just materialized instantly out of thin air...will you ?
Friend mmm..... ---Blank---
The funny thing is that you dont need EXTREME KNOWLEDGE to understand this, just those simple questions I asked him or any similar questions works just well for the rational. There are many rational people I know who get emotional when it comes to VIRGIN MARY and EVOLUTION.
Anyways, do you like rabbits ? Only asking because of your avatar...you seem to love them.
Peace
------------ Student of AllahIt is engrained in their belief due to tafsir that explains the Qur'an with extraneous sources. Instead of that, they should use tasreef, have the Qur'an explain itself.
My avatar is wolves, not bunnies I love animals in general (except chihuahuas).
Im sure u know the exact verses in Sura Maryam... bt since u ask, here it is
'I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son.'
She said'How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?' He (the angel) said
'So (it will be), your Lord said 'That is easy for Me And to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (from God)', and it is a matter (already) decreed (by God).' " (Quran 1916-21)
ALSO,
"Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said
'O Maryam! Indeed you have brought a thing which is greatly evil! O sister of Haron (i.e. O you who we consider the like of Haron, who was a pious man at the time of Mary)! Your father was not a bad man (adulterous), nor was your mother an unchaste woman.' Then she pointed to him (to the baby). (Quran 1927-29)
Its clear she was never touched by any man until the birth of Isa. So there cannot be an inch of confusion about the matter nor space to twist the meaning of those verses.
That was Isa, the son of Maryam, and this is the truth of this matter, about which they continue to doubt.
Could it have been that she married a man and lost her virginity due to God's plan? She was expected to stay as a virgin as she was made to be dedicated to the monastic life. However, I believe (based on the rendition by Dr Shabbir Ahmed and others) that this was God's plan to show that monasticism is not the way in Islam. Mary therefore is a champion for women.
Also, are you sure that Jesus was a baby when he was brought to the people?
Remember that God says that his laws never change. If God made these so called miracles take place, these stories would be doubtful. How can God make physical laws and then break them? Of course He can, but it would be very inconsistent and wouldn't be beneficial whatsoever. Many of the miracles in the Qur'an are allegorical.
Peace
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People will see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe.
Jesus spoke to people from the cradle. Sura 3 46. Yes, God did make physical laws and broke them as Jesus healed the lepers, the blind, infused life into the dead.
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Peace,
People will see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe.
Jesus spoke to people from the cradle. Sura 3 46. Yes, God did make physical laws and broke them as Jesus healed the lepers, the blind, infused life into the dead.
My question is, is that literal or allegorical for Jesus giving life and giving eyesight to the straying Jews?
37 He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
Peace
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Check around on this forum archive..
We've report of somebody seeing Muhammad in their dream too..
And the 'sightings' of Aleph-Lam-Lam-Ha lettering on virtually everything (clouds, cows, grass, snakes, whatever)..I saw Mohamed PBUH in my dream and trust me that is not a miracle at all police And excuse my ignorance, what is the Aleph-Lam-Lam-Ha? laugh
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AOA
free minds translation
1919
He said "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you the gift of a pure son."
1920
She said "How can I have a son when no human being has been with me, nor have I desired such?"
1921
He said "It is such that your Lord has said, it is easy for Me. And We shall make him a sign for the people and a mercy from Us. It is a matter already ordained."
&1922
So she was pregnant with him, and she went to deliver in a far place.
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I saw Mohamed PBUH in my dream and trust me that is not a miracle at all police
Btw how do you know that he's Muhammad The Prophet who lived about 1400 years ago?
Given you never met him in real life... or you have any reference on what Muhammad really looks like?
Or.... he show you his passport or birth certificate in your dream? -
AOA amuslim
Are you using that to prove the virgin conception? If so, refer to the "kun fayakun" in the last page.
No I am agnostic over the issue. I have no knowldge of Arabic and cannot comment on the precise meaning of "Kun fayakun". However have to rely on transaltions, including the free minds. If a man was involved in the conception what would be the point of these verses?
The previous page, to me, explained very little. Perhaps you could summarise the meaning of the mentioned vrses.
Regards -
Peace stilllearning,
Of course, these are my own personal interpretations of the verses. Dr. Shabbir states that the Qur'an lightly corrects the Bible without drawing attention to the errors in the Bible (or Christian mindset), except for of course anything that relates to shirk (Son of God mentality, Messiah is God, etc.).
What I meant by "Kun Fayakun", translated as "Be, and it is" is what God does in order to make something come to fruition. If God wants it to be done, then it will be done. Now, it's not that God literally says these words, but it denotes that nothing is hard for God to do. The universe and all of life comes into being with God saying those words. We know that the universe is billions of years old. Man's ancestors (according to modern day scientists) has been around since 1.5 million years ago. All of this with "Kun", or "Be". It wasn't done in an instant. It took time (6 ayams in the case of the Qur'an, which can be translated to 6 days, eons, periods, etc.).
2117 Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.
754 Indeed, your Lord is Allah , who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne.
Now back to the conception of Jesus. The Muslims get the idea of the virgin conception and a lot of their other beliefs because they ascribe to many Judeo-Christian beliefs. Such as Adam and Eve. The Qur'an never mentions Eve, but through Hadiths and other literatures, Muslims today call Adam's mate Eve. There are many other examples.
The Qur'an doesn't outright (to my knowledge) say that he was not born with a virgin conception. At the same time it doesn't say that he was. If you use tasreef, meaning use the entire Qur'an to find the explanation, you will see that God has created these laws in the universe and that we live based on these laws. Whether it be gravity, the way our organs work, etc. they all have been constructed based on the laws that God has created. Similarly, Jesus' birth has to follow these laws. If God were to go against the laws that he constructed, it would send people into confusion. People of knowledge know that a virgin birth is impossible (except for A sexual beings). I know that there are Christians and even some Muslims that try to prove that it is scientifically possible, but seriously it makes no sense.
The Qur'an tells us to look at the simulitude of the creation of Adam and the creation of Jesus. If we were to take that literally, then that would mean that Jesus was created without a father and without a mother and that he was created from dust! The Muslims, however, ascribe to the notion that God simply said "Be" and then Jesus was being formed within the womb. They are, therefore, selective on this issue due to the Christian idea of the virgin conception. Adam is also another issue (something that even we here at Free-Minds are in conflict about) that is heavily borrowed from Judeo-Christian belief. Some believe that it was indeed a man while others (like myself) see Adam as a symbol for "Mankind". Especially if one believes on evolution (both physically and mentally for mankind), this would have taken a long time and it wasn't an instant creation.
359 Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was.
Why would God send the Qur'an to Muhammad without clearing up this matter about the virgin birth? In my personal opinion, I think that it is through this way that the Christians would be able to transition (become accustomed) to Islam easier. Example being the Christian king of Abyssinia (modern day Ethiopia) that allowed the early Muslims asylum in his land.
Again, these are all my own beliefs and I cannot tell you or anyone else to believe in them. I am strictly using reason that God has told us to utilize.
6710 And they will say, "If only we had been listening or reasoning, we would not be among the companions of the Blaze."
1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
Peace
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Incredible claims require incredible proofs.
1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and heart, all these you are responsible for.
Chaste does not mean virgin--it means innocent of unlawful sexual intercourse. Example
1928 "O sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, and your mother has never been unchaste!"
The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 714 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.
Source http//www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html
1916 And relate in the Book, Mary, when she withdrew herself from her family to a place which was to the east.
AQ does not state that the narrative is true! It states that this is what the Book stated. The Bible states many things--some of which are (at least as translated) untrue.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi