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  4. "According to Holy Hearsay Reports, the Quran is indeed a Miracle"!.

"According to Holy Hearsay Reports, the Quran is indeed a Miracle"!.

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  • E Offline
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    Edip_Yuksel
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Since the Quran claims that it is a miracle, then it is a miracle
    Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and the book delivered by him must be a miracle
    I believe in the Quran; therefore, it must be a miracle
    I find the information in the Quran perfectly conforming to my culture, knowledge and expectations. Therefore, the Quran must be a miracle.
    I am not an expert on every scientific issue, history or archeology, and I am not a logician; but since I cannot find any contradiction in the Holy Book that I was raised with its beautiful recitation, therefore it must be a miracle.
    I do not really know how to prove it; but I believe that the Quran is a literary miracle!
    Neil Armstrong, the astronaut who first landed on the Moon, and Captain Custo, the renowned French explorer and many other scientists became Muslims. Therefore, the Quran must be a miracle.
    Our great scholars and saints all have asserted the miraculous nature of the Quran. How could all be wrong! Thus, it is a miracle.
    If more than a billion people believe in it, then it must be a miracle!
    I do not need a miracle to believe that a book is from God. Faith needs no justification. If I believe then it becomes a miracle!

    No wonder, millions who resort to silly and fallacious reasons like the ones I listed above have no problem in following silly, backward, harmful and contradictory teachings of Hadith and Sunna; no wonder they act blind, deaf and dumb when they are informed about the verses of the Quran or invited to engage in critical thinking.

    Those who have no clue about the meaning of miracle are wrong even if the object of their claim is indeed a miracle. Compare these two The assertion "67 is a prime number" to the assertion "My glorious ancestors believed that 67is a prime number and I am following their verdict without questioning". While both of these agrees on the numerical nature of 67 the difference between the two is as akin to the difference between graphite and diamond. Though both are made of pure carbon, the diamond is one of the hardest matters in the world, while graphite is one of the softest.

    I will not be a surprised if a person declaring that "According to reliable reports, 2 + 2 = 4", also declares "According to reliable sources 1 + 1 + 1 = 1". Why? Because such a person is not using his or her own mind; they have put their brains in the blind basket of religious adherence. Has become sheep in a herd Has placed her eggs in in a nest that no bird has hatched! The blind bandwagoners do not witness miracles through critical and analytical thinking. All they do is copying, memorizing, parroting, imitating the religions, sects and cultures of their ancestors whom they have idolized!

    Those who believe in the Quran blindly betray the Quran blindly, and unfortunately, they also lack the awareness and capacity to notice their contradictions, their ignorance and arrogance!

    PS Signs/miracles (aya) As a divine response to the epistemological interrogation and objection to messengers, they are endowed in accordance to God's law (Sunnatullah) with divine signs/evidences consisting of extraordinary and superhuman special events/phenomena that cannot be explained by our collective experience and knowledge yet can be witnessed by our senses and/or by our reasoning faculties.

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      Paradox_Uncreated
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Im not really sure what you are saying Edip. Hadith is bad, yes. ) However I cant understand your belief in this numerology. 19xthis 19xthat. So what? You can probably find multiples of 19 in white noise.
      Logic proof however of God, does exist if one only has the capacity to understand it.

      Peace.

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        stillearning
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        AOA Paradox uncreated

        However I can`t understand your belief in this numerology. 19xthis 19xthat. So what? You can probably find multiples of 19 in white noise.

        You have no understanding of the miracle of number 19. I recently decipherd the miracle of 19 in my family. Children aged 17+13+10=40. Ist two were born rather prematurely by one year each. Hence 40-2=38. Exact mulitiple of the God's number 19. If you still require further proof then I am afraid you are seriously on the wrong path.

        Oh! yes the original article. Ah! to be so wise and knowldgeable and be able to sneer at the rest.
        Regards

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          Jafar
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Nicely put Edip..

          I myself do not believe that the Quran is a miracle.
          However I'm not a miracle seeker.. as thus it's not a 'problem' for me..
          I'm a wisdom seeker and Quran is the source of wisdom among others...

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            Student_of_Allah
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            ?Since the Quran claims that it is a miracle, then it is a miracle?
            ?Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and the book delivered by him must be a miracle?
            ?I believe in the Quran; therefore, it must be a miracle?
            ?I find the information in the Quran perfectly conforming to my culture, knowledge and expectations. Therefore, the Quran must be a miracle.?
            ?I am not an expert on every scientific issue, history or archeology, and I am not a logician; but since I cannot find any contradiction in the Holy Book that I was raised with its beautiful recitation, therefore it must be a miracle.?
            ?I do not really know how to prove it; but I believe that the Quran is a literary miracle!?
            ?Neil Armstrong, the astronaut who first landed on the Moon, and Captain Custo, the renowned French explorer and many other scientists became Muslims. Therefore, the Quran must be a miracle.?
            ?Our great scholars and saints all have asserted the miraculous nature of the Quran. How could all be wrong! Thus, it is a miracle.?
            ?If more than a billion people believe in it, then it must be a miracle!?
            ?I do not need a miracle to believe that a book is from God. Faith needs no justification. If I believe then it becomes a miracle!?

            No wonder, millions who resort to silly and fallacious ?reasons? like the ones I listed above have no problem in following silly, backward, harmful and contradictory teachings of Hadith and Sunna; no wonder they act blind, deaf and dumb when they are informed about the verses of the Quran or invited to engage in critical thinking.

            Those who have no clue about the meaning of miracle are wrong even if the object of their claim is indeed a miracle. Compare these two The assertion "67 is a prime number" to the assertion "My glorious ancestors believed that 67is a prime number and I am following their verdict without questioning". While both of these agrees on the numerical nature of 67 the difference between the two is as akin to the difference between graphite and diamond. Though both are made of pure carbon, the diamond is one of the hardest matters in the world, while graphite is one of the softest.

            I will not be a surprised if a person declaring that "According to reliable reports, 2 + 2 = 4", also declares "According to reliable sources 1 + 1 + 1 = 1". Why? Because such a person is not using his or her own mind; they have put their brains in the blind basket of religious adherence. Has become sheep in a herd? Has placed her eggs in in a nest that no bird has hatched! The blind bandwagoners do not witness miracles through critical and analytical thinking. All they do is copying, memorizing, parroting, imitating the religions, sects and cultures of their ancestors whom they have idolized!

            Those who believe in the Quran blindly betray the Quran blindly, and unfortunately, they also lack the awareness and capacity to notice their contradictions, their ignorance and arrogance!

            PS Signs/miracles (aya) As a divine response to the epistemological interrogation and objection to messengers, they are endowed in accordance to God's law (Sunnatullah) with divine signs/evidences consisting of extraordinary and superhuman special events/phenomena that cannot be explained by our collective experience and knowledge yet can be witnessed by our senses and/or by our reasoning faculties.

            Shalom Aleikhom,

            Dont know what to make of it. Are you introducing a better conjecture than the ones you stated ? or you have something genuine that will enlighten me ? Bring it on... regardless of the outcome ,inshallah it will be a learning experience for this Student of Allah.

            Peace be on you, May God be pleased with you

            -------------- Student of Allah

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              Jafar
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Shalom Aleikhom,

              Dont know what to make of it. Are you introducing a better conjecture than the ones you stated ? or you have something genuine that will enlighten me ? Bring it on... regardless of the outcome ,inshallah it will be a learning experience for this Student of Allah.

              Peace be on you, May God be pleased with you

              From my POV I think Edip highlighted the importance of 'critical thinking'...

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                Student_of_Allah
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                From my POV I think Edip highlighted the importance of 'critical thinking'...

                Shalom,

                It would be nice to see his definition of "critical thinking". What do you say ?

                Peace
                --------------- Student of Allah

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                  stillearning
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  AOA

                  It would be nice to see his definition of "critical thinking". What do you say ?

                  Must admit I did wonder if I was bit slow as I completely missed the "critical thinking" bit. The only bit I could see was I am so clever and deep thinking unlike few billion dim wits.
                  You will have to excuse me. I am in one of those moods

                  Regards

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                    Student_of_Allah
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    AOA

                    Must admit I did wonder if I was bit slow as I completely missed the "critical thinking" bit. The only bit I could see was I am so clever and deep thinking unlike few billion dim wits.
                    You will have to excuse me. I am in one of those moods

                    Regards

                    Shalom,

                    rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl

                    Having laughed enough about it... I must inform you that as far as I have read his materials, he is a critical thinker (may be not the best one in town, but he is one). Anyways, let us wait and see HIS DEFINITION of MIRACLE or CRITICAL thinking.

                    Peace
                    ------------- Student of Allah

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                      Jafar
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Great we have a bunch of 'mufassir' (interpreter) for Edip's 'sayings' now.. yay yay
                      and I'm one of them.. rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl

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                        hope4
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        You have no understanding of the miracle of number 19. I recently decipherd the miracle of 19 in my family. Children aged 17+13+10=40. Ist two were born rather prematurely by one year each. Hence 40-2=38. Exact mulitiple of the God's number 19. If you still require further proof then I am afraid you are seriously on the wrong path.

                        That's it! It's the proof we have all been waiting for.

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                          MesMorial
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          The first problem I had with code 19 was the fact that 7431 declares "None knows the soldiers of the Lord except Him".

                          i.e. the parable of 19 appears to about 19 angels, not 19. 19 angels are a fitna, just like the zaqqum tree is (3762).

                          So if there is something special about 19 in Qur'an, to me there is no criterion.

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                            Paradox_Uncreated
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            you are seriously on the wrong path.

                            But I am NOT on the wrong path, stilllearning. I also see edip use the phrase, the ingrates, or the unappreciative, which I might use. However I am NOT of the ungrateful, I am very grateful to God. Do you know that calling someone who is a monotheist, recognises one force behind creation, "on the wrong path" is very provocative?

                            Even claiming I am on the wrong, path, who is on advanced levels of Islam.. No, that means YOU are on the wrong path.

                            Stop talking in tongues with this 19xX. It is clearly an enemy.

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                              stillearning
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              AOA Paradox uncreated

                              But I am NOT on the wrong path, stilllearning. I also see edip use the phrase, the ingrates, or the unappreciative, which I might use. However I am NOT of the ungrateful, I am very grateful to God. Do you know that calling someone who is a monotheist, recognises one force behind creation, "on the wrong path" is very provocative?

                              Even claiming I am on the wrong, path, who is on advanced levels of Islam.. No, that means YOU are on the wrong path.

                              Stop talking in tongues with this 19xX. It is clearly an enemy.

                              I am trying to work out if your post is tongue in cheek or actually serious. It sounds you are being serious. If that is the case then I am sorry. I suggest you read my post again very carefully and also read hope4's reply. He seems to have grasped the spirit of my reply.

                              regards

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                                mirjamnur
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                peace to all group
                                why do I always have the feeling of being in the wrong film, where I come too? We are here to listen to us and respect our views against each other. The number 19 seems to be truly magical, every time it is called, the people are becoming very emotional.
                                I think it's not nice to laugh at others, whether this is an atheist, a Buddhist, a small man, a green alien or Edip now. We all try our best to get closer to God. All we should first remove the splinter in our eyes before we go off on others. tempt
                                But I too do not know what Edip try to say us here. I ask for explanation. salaam

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                                  Paradox_Uncreated
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  AOA Paradox uncreated

                                  I am trying to work out if your post is tongue in cheek or actually serious. It sounds you are being serious. If that is the case then I am sorry. I suggest you read my post again very carefully and also read hope4's reply. He seems to have grasped the spirit of my reply.

                                  regards

                                  You are being very provocative. Do not roam the earth in arrogance.

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                                    hamzamutlu
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    But I too do not know what Edip try to say us here. I ask for explanation. salaam

                                    Well...here is the explanation you asked

                                    In his post Edip emphasizes the virtues of critical thinking D D

                                    However what he actually looks for are not critical thinkers but critical eaters D

                                    for instance an average thinker thinks about the below stuff that it is a silly addition of 29 apples ,14 pears and 14 cucumbers

                                    14 different Arabic letters, form 14 different sets of Quranic Initials (such as A.L.M. of 21), and prefix 29 suras. These numbers add up to 14 + 14 + 29 = 57 = 19 ? 3.
                                    D

                                    but an Edip-type critical thinker (critical eater) witnesses in the above numbers a part of an invisible quranic code, since the numbers are in one of Edip's 19 books (reliable source)

                                    final words if you want eternal salvation then believe critically, eat critically, obey critically.

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                                      Edip_Yuksel
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Hamza, I concede that you have a point or a bowl of fruits here

                                      On the other hand, if apples, pears and cucumbers are served in one bowl and you are wondering about the number of fruits, then, there is no problem in adding them up.

                                      You will be disturbed by the 19 all your life, unless you decide to study it objectively! This a divine promise Hamza. It is a fitna for you and it will burn holes in your brain!

                                      By the way, how many holes are there in your head, excluding the ones created by the 19? To answer my question wouldn't you count the holes in your MOUTH (apple) + EAR (pear) + NOSE (cucumber) (And, I expect that you will not go and try to find others beyond that!)

                                      PS Inshallah, Running Like Zebras will soon be published. About 480 pages. I think there is a section where you enter the scene like a gray wolfe with a few comments.

                                      Peace,
                                      Edip

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                                        hamzamutlu
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        On the other hand, if apples, pears and cucumbers are served in one bowl and you are wondering about the number of fruits, then, there is no problem in adding them up.

                                        There is always problem in adding apples and pears, but the more serious problem is, there is no such bowl. You just imagine it. Another person can easily imagine another bowl in which there are;

                                        14 apples
                                        14 pears
                                        29 cucumbers (initiated suras)
                                        30 bananas (initiated verses)

                                        Actually everybody knows that you imagined several bowls and picked out only the one in which total # of fruits is multiple of 19. After all, such a single independant finding is statistically insignificant and a list of such individual findings doesn't make a code.

                                        By the way, how many holes are there in your head, excluding the ones created by the 19? To answer my question wouldn't you count the holes in your MOUTH (apple) + EAR (pear) + NOSE (cucumber)

                                        Think a little critically aa D The different location of one of my holes doesn't make it a car-exhaust. It is still a hole. You would be right if you for example added up numbers of initial letters (holes) in all initiated verses (different locations).

                                        Btw, I believe in 19 miracle but reject your only-quran-protecting-code theory.

                                        peace

                                        Son s?z Siz yedinin beini nasl alrsnz

                                        Sondan sonraki s?z Bize bi meyva taba yap garson....ondokuzlusundan olsun! ;D

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                                          Edip_Yuksel
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          14 apples
                                          14 pears
                                          29 cucumbers (initiated suras)
                                          30 bananas (initiated verses)

                                          In fact, the verses made of initial letters are 19, raising the sum up to 76, which is 19 x 4.
                                          Of course, I see how you are mixing the initial letters with others in your fourth bowl you mix the bananas with eggplants.

                                          Interestingly, you are trying to hide 11 purple vegetables inside yellow bananas.

                                          Dear Hamza, you are underestimating my eye-sight and overestimating your hand-sleight ) !

                                          PS To save you from another silly attempt to serve your bowl there is no chapter made up only initial letters, but there are 19 verses made up only initial letters.

                                          Peace,
                                          Edip

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