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  4. Significance of alef in بِاسمِ

Significance of alef in بِاسمِ

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    Mazhar
    wrote on last edited by
    #2

    What is difference between and /what it reveals

    http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603610.0

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      SAbboushi
      wrote on last edited by
      #3

      Thanks - that looks like a tremendous amount of work you have done. I have started to examine it... will take some time. Thanks again--

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      • Y Offline
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        youssef4342
        wrote on last edited by
        #4

        Hi

        this is from Edip's book ~ critical thinkers for islamic reform,

        So, I tried that Quranic educational tool. I asked the imam to grab the pen and
        write down the beginning of chapter 96 ?Bismillahirrahmanirarrahim. Iqra
        bismi rabbika allazi khalaq? That's it. Surprise he did not wish to write it.
        Perhaps he was scared to continue engaging in a Socratic dialog. Had he written
        those few words, I would ask him why he wrote both words the same. Surely, he
        would be justified to spell them the same, since both were pronounced the same
        and meant the same. Then, I would ask him to look at the spelling of the Quran.
        He would notice that the one in Bismillah was consisted of three letters, BSM,
        but the one in the following verse was spelled with an extra aleph, BISM. So,
        even if we assume that Muhammad did not write the revelation of the Quran
        with his own hand, even if we believe in the stories of him dictating to scribes,
        he must have at least known the letter Aleph. If he knew Aleph, then he was at
        least 1/28th literate! ?I proved that he knew the letter Aleph and now it is your
        turn to prove that he did not know the letter B, the second letter in alphabet,? I
        would nicely ask. If our imam got stuck again, I would perhaps go forward and
        ask him about the different spelling of Mecca and Becca or the curious spelling
        of Bastata in verse 769.

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        • S Offline
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          SAbboushi
          wrote on last edited by
          #5

          Very interesting - thank you

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          • E Offline
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            Edip_Yuksel
            wrote on last edited by
            #6

            The reason for this is obvious for those who have witnessed the prophetic mathematical code of the Quran (7430-37) and unclear for those who cannot witness it due to ignorance and arrogance '(for instance see 7146).

            The number of letters in Bismillah are 19. With an extra Alif it would be 20.

            For more information please see

            http//19.org/category/yuksel/19-gods-signature-in-nature-and-scripture/

            Peace,
            Edip

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              SAbboushi
              wrote on last edited by
              #7

              Thanks Edip-

              Can you confirm that both words (without alef, with alef) have identical meaning? Is there a basis in morphology that allows for both forms of the word?

              Peace-

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                Mazhar
                wrote on last edited by
                #8

                "This regular hamza(t) at the beginning of a word is called the "disconnecting hamza(t)" . This is often an original letter and it must be pronounced always.

                The other type of hamza(t) which lacks the sign is called the "connecting hamza(t)" . That one is never an original letter and it is only pronounced when it is the first thing that comes out of the mouth. Arabs added this kind of hamza(t) to some words for merely phonological reasons, namely because they hated to start talking by pronouncing a "still" letter, that is, a consonant that is not followed by any vowel. The connecting hamza(t) is somewhat similar to the French "liaison."

                http//arabic.tripod.com/Alif2.htm

                Not to be fascinated by digital gimmics, Arabic is a language of Syllables.

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                • S Offline
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                  SAbboushi
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #9

                  Mazhar -- Thanks for your help.

                  My observations

                  • I find 3 occurences of and 4 occurences of

                  • All 7 words begin with

                  • I don't believe there are any "disconnecting hamza(t)" in these words; and I believe the latter 4 each have a "connecting hamza(t)"

                  I am struggling to understand how your post relates to these observations, nor what rule or convention would add a "connecting hamza(t)" to the middle of a word (i.e. &#1616. Did I misunderstand something?

                  What I also notice is that the the use of is always followed by (i.e. ) whereas the use of is not. Is this merely coincidence?

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                  • M Offline
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                    Mazhar
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #10

                    "connecting hamza(t)" to the middle of a word (i.e. &#1616

                    It is not a word. It is a phrase. is a rare two consonant word like some othhers, In all three occurrences without connecting hamza prepositional phrase is at the start of speech and is followed by a word beginning with connecting hamza(t). May be you find some clue in it.

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                      SAbboushi
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #11

                      Thanks again. So much to learn...

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                      • B Offline
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                        Bender
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #12

                        Mazhar -- Thanks for your help.

                        My observations

                        • I find 3 occurences of and 4 occurences of

                        • All 7 words begin with

                        • I don't believe there are any "disconnecting hamza(t)" in these words; and I believe the latter 4 each have a "connecting hamza(t)"

                        I am struggling to understand how your post relates to these observations, nor what rule or convention would add a "connecting hamza(t)" to the middle of a word (i.e. &#1616. Did I misunderstand something?

                        What I also notice is that the the use of is always followed by (i.e. ) whereas the use of is not. Is this merely coincidence?

                        Salaam,

                        Thank you for this info

                        Salaam,
                        Bender

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                          SAbboushi
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #13

                          And may peace be with you Bender -

                          You are welcome. I just wish someone could help me make sense of it

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                          • B Offline
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                            Bender
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #14

                            And may peace be with you Bender -

                            You are welcome. I just wish someone could help me make sense of it )

                            Salaam SAbboushi,

                            At the moment I have no idea

                            You said I find 3 occurences of and 4 occurences of
                            I could only find 2 occurences of in 1141 and in 2730. Where is the 3rd one?

                            Salaam,
                            Bender

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                            • B Offline
                              B Offline
                              Bender
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #15

                              Salaam SAbboushi,

                              At the moment I have no idea

                              You said I find 3 occurences of and 4 occurences of
                              I could only find 2 occurences of in 1141 and in 2730. Where is the 3rd one?

                              Salaam,
                              Bender

                              edit I guess 11 is the 3rd one

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                                SAbboushi
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #16

                                yes, 11

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                                  SAbboushi
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #17

                                  Mazhar

                                  In all three occurrences without connecting hamza prepositional phrase is at the start of speech and is followed by a word beginning with connecting hamza(t).

                                  It took me a few days to process this. Are you saying that the 3 occurences of differ from the 4 occurences of in another way, namely that when used as the first word of a sentence, is used?

                                  Also, are you saying that in the 4 occurences, the alef is not a connecting hamza(t)?

                                  Confused... but trying to get through it!

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Mazhar
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #18

                                    Since the original word is therefore it will have only connecting hamza. I simply pointed out that where connecting hamza is not used in prepositional phrase the next word starts with hamza wasl .

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                                    • S Offline
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                                      SAbboushi
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #19

                                      Hours of research later... so many questions (

                                      1. If an Arabic grammarian were asked to translate (in writing) these phrases into Arabic ("In the name of God", "So glorify the name of your Lord", "Read in the name of your Lord&quot, for what reason(s) would they (or would they not) choose to use or in each case?

                                      2. The link provided by Mazhar on hamza(t) leads me to believe that the hamza wasl is only pronounced if it is the first utterance of a statement; but in all 7 cases I have cited, the preposition insures that a hamza wasl is not pronounced. Is that correct?

                                      3. Since there is a difference between writing and speaking is a word whose first letter is not vowelled (such as ) always (or generally?) written with a hamza wasl regardless of whether it is not the first thing uttered in a statement?

                                      Thanks for any help--
                                      Samir

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                                      • S Offline
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                                        SAbboushi
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #20

                                        I found the following in Lane (Book I, p. 93)
                                        And one says, . (Ksh, on the ; &c.)

                                        Again, I see in one case and in another...

                                        Can anyone explain this to me?

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                                        • B Offline
                                          B Offline
                                          Bender
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #21

                                          Salaam bro,

                                          I just saw you online and remembered this discussion.
                                          Do you have any update for me, or still as clueless as before?

                                          Salaam,
                                          Bender

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