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  4. Significance of alef in بِاسمِ

Significance of alef in بِاسمِ

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  • S Offline
    S Offline
    SAbboushi
    wrote on last edited by
    #9

    Mazhar -- Thanks for your help.

    My observations

    • I find 3 occurences of and 4 occurences of

    • All 7 words begin with

    • I don't believe there are any "disconnecting hamza(t)" in these words; and I believe the latter 4 each have a "connecting hamza(t)"

    I am struggling to understand how your post relates to these observations, nor what rule or convention would add a "connecting hamza(t)" to the middle of a word (i.e. &#1616. Did I misunderstand something?

    What I also notice is that the the use of is always followed by (i.e. ) whereas the use of is not. Is this merely coincidence?

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      Mazhar
      wrote on last edited by
      #10

      "connecting hamza(t)" to the middle of a word (i.e. &#1616

      It is not a word. It is a phrase. is a rare two consonant word like some othhers, In all three occurrences without connecting hamza prepositional phrase is at the start of speech and is followed by a word beginning with connecting hamza(t). May be you find some clue in it.

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      • S Offline
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        SAbboushi
        wrote on last edited by
        #11

        Thanks again. So much to learn...

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        • B Offline
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          Bender
          wrote on last edited by
          #12

          Mazhar -- Thanks for your help.

          My observations

          • I find 3 occurences of and 4 occurences of

          • All 7 words begin with

          • I don't believe there are any "disconnecting hamza(t)" in these words; and I believe the latter 4 each have a "connecting hamza(t)"

          I am struggling to understand how your post relates to these observations, nor what rule or convention would add a "connecting hamza(t)" to the middle of a word (i.e. &#1616. Did I misunderstand something?

          What I also notice is that the the use of is always followed by (i.e. ) whereas the use of is not. Is this merely coincidence?

          Salaam,

          Thank you for this info

          Salaam,
          Bender

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            SAbboushi
            wrote on last edited by
            #13

            And may peace be with you Bender -

            You are welcome. I just wish someone could help me make sense of it

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              Bender
              wrote on last edited by
              #14

              And may peace be with you Bender -

              You are welcome. I just wish someone could help me make sense of it )

              Salaam SAbboushi,

              At the moment I have no idea

              You said I find 3 occurences of and 4 occurences of
              I could only find 2 occurences of in 1141 and in 2730. Where is the 3rd one?

              Salaam,
              Bender

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                Bender
                wrote on last edited by
                #15

                Salaam SAbboushi,

                At the moment I have no idea

                You said I find 3 occurences of and 4 occurences of
                I could only find 2 occurences of in 1141 and in 2730. Where is the 3rd one?

                Salaam,
                Bender

                edit I guess 11 is the 3rd one

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                  SAbboushi
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #16

                  yes, 11

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                  • S Offline
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                    SAbboushi
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #17

                    Mazhar

                    In all three occurrences without connecting hamza prepositional phrase is at the start of speech and is followed by a word beginning with connecting hamza(t).

                    It took me a few days to process this. Are you saying that the 3 occurences of differ from the 4 occurences of in another way, namely that when used as the first word of a sentence, is used?

                    Also, are you saying that in the 4 occurences, the alef is not a connecting hamza(t)?

                    Confused... but trying to get through it!

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                    • M Offline
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                      Mazhar
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #18

                      Since the original word is therefore it will have only connecting hamza. I simply pointed out that where connecting hamza is not used in prepositional phrase the next word starts with hamza wasl .

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                        SAbboushi
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #19

                        Hours of research later... so many questions (

                        1. If an Arabic grammarian were asked to translate (in writing) these phrases into Arabic ("In the name of God", "So glorify the name of your Lord", "Read in the name of your Lord&quot, for what reason(s) would they (or would they not) choose to use or in each case?

                        2. The link provided by Mazhar on hamza(t) leads me to believe that the hamza wasl is only pronounced if it is the first utterance of a statement; but in all 7 cases I have cited, the preposition insures that a hamza wasl is not pronounced. Is that correct?

                        3. Since there is a difference between writing and speaking is a word whose first letter is not vowelled (such as ) always (or generally?) written with a hamza wasl regardless of whether it is not the first thing uttered in a statement?

                        Thanks for any help--
                        Samir

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                          SAbboushi
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #20

                          I found the following in Lane (Book I, p. 93)
                          And one says, . (Ksh, on the ; &c.)

                          Again, I see in one case and in another...

                          Can anyone explain this to me?

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                            Bender
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #21

                            Salaam bro,

                            I just saw you online and remembered this discussion.
                            Do you have any update for me, or still as clueless as before?

                            Salaam,
                            Bender

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                              SAbboushi
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #22

                              He He! Still clueless

                              This is still above my pay grade
                              So, focusing on understanding the things within my grasp

                              Peace-

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                                Bender
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #23

                                He He! Still clueless

                                This is still above my pay grade
                                So, focusing on understanding the things within my grasp

                                Peace-

                                Salaam,

                                You are not the only one Just don't give up!
                                Most of time when I study a subject I learn a lot of other interesting things which have nothing to do with the subject at hand but handy for my overall knowledge.

                                Salaam,
                                Bender

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                                  SAbboushi
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #24

                                  Thanks!

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                                  • B Offline
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                                    bkanwar2
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #25

                                    If really want to taste the eternal and unending mercy of "One who is not at all deity for worship". Please look up under root Ba-Siin-Miim and Alif-Siin-Miim (Siin-Miim-Waw/Ya), in lane and you shall have your answer.

                                    Regards,

                                    Badar

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                                      faruk
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #26

                                      If really want to taste the eternal and unending mercy of "One who is not at all deity for worship". Please look up under root Ba-Siin-Miim and Alif-Siin-Miim (Siin-Miim-Waw/Ya), in lane and you shall have your answer.

                                      Regards,

                                      Badar

                                      Salam Badar, Wiil you please elaborate the answer by your own words?

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                                      • B Offline
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                                        bkanwar2
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #27

                                        SAbboushi, thanks for bringing this up. I looked at it a long time ago and could not untangle preconceived understanding enough. You are correct so much to learn and so little time.

                                        is the noun from same root.

                                        is a noun from root Alif-Siin-Miim or Siin-Miim-Waw. There is preposition Ba pre fixed to it.

                                        Now let me correct my own understanding of first two verses of Quran and convey the concepts in simple English without adhering literally to original language

                                        Surah 11

                                        In order to taste the eternal and everlasting mercy of One who is not at all a deity for worship.

                                        Surah 12

                                        The praise, is not at all a deity for worship, rather is the Rabb (sustainer, maintainer, fosterer and accomplisher) of all the disciplines of knowledge.

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                                          Mazhar
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #28

                                          Now let me correct my own understanding of first two verses of Quran and convey the concepts in simple English without adhering literally to original language

                                          John Dryden in seventeenth century identified three types of translation

                                          Metaphrase involving "word by word" and "line by line" translation

                                          Paraphrase involving "sense for sense" translation

                                          Imitation involving variance from words and sense by abandoning the text of the original as the translator sees fit. Translation Theoryp/url]

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