Why believe in God?
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Peace lordfox.
This forum is open to all who wish to take part.May be some atheists see this as" GOD ALONE" site and choose not to bother.
Also, what is not productive, is making a comment without producing a good argument / proof to back up your claim/opinion.
May the Lord guide us to do better.
Peace. -
Because there is just something inside of me that tells me there is something greater than all of this
-Working my butt off to pay bills everyday
-Dealing with illnesses
-Hatred, crime and apathyI can't imagine how a person could not become seriously depressed and hopeless waking up every day and having THAT to look forward to. brickwall
I am, however, beginning to rethink my idea of God, especially since the last two years of my life have caused me to view Him as severely authoritarian. How many times are we told that He is forgiving and merciful in the Qu'ran? I was never the type to serve God out of fear of burning in hell... but I do fear losing His favor, if I have managed to do anything to deserve any favor.
Amina
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How can't I believe God after every impossible becomes possible?
What exactly became possible that was previously possible? The mere fact that an event occurs actually takes it outside the realm of impossibilities and puts it in the realm of possibilities.
If I say it's impossible for lightning to strike twice, and then lightning strikes twice that doesn't mean the impossible happened. It simply means my initial statement was incorrect because by the mere fact of its occurence, it stopped being impossible.
As for the idea that there must be something greater that isn't really any type of evidence it's just wishful thinking and probably a result of evolutionary biology. Even neanderthals tens of thousands of years ago had burial rights which means they had a concept of death and possibly an afterlife.
Our brains as social creatures are actually naturally receptive to the things that religions and superstitious beliefs offer us.
I used to believe strongly in God but now I doubt and question everything.
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What exactly became possible that was previously possible? The mere fact that an event occurs actually takes it outside the realm of impossibilities and puts it in the realm of possibilities.
If I say it's impossible for lightning to strike twice, and then lightning strikes twice that doesn't mean the impossible happened. It simply means my initial statement was incorrect because by the mere fact of its occurence, it stopped being impossible.
As for the idea that there must be something greater that isn't really any type of evidence it's just wishful thinking and probably a result of evolutionary biology. Even neanderthals tens of thousands of years ago had burial rights which means they had a concept of death and possibly an afterlife.
Our brains as social creatures are actually naturally receptive to the things that religions and superstitious beliefs offer us.
I used to believe strongly in God but now I doubt and question everything.
Well then call me a big, fat neanderthal then...and a wishful thinker... because that is all I have D And I actually admire the fact that you question everything. That is something I am learning to be comfortable with.
Peace,
Amina
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I think it would be more productive to ask atheists why they do not believe in any God. The responses and comments will be more interesting and productive than the ones previously made.
I do not believe in any god because I have not seen any good evidence that any god exists.
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May be some atheists see this as" GOD ALONE" site and choose not to bother.
Also, what is not productive, is making a comment without producing a good argument / proof to back up your claim/opinion.
Wow, I rarely see such open minded comments. I don't go to a Muslim forum to proselytise but learn, observe and comment when I see a glaring misrepresentation.
Personally, I don't require or need a god. I can't see anything that a theist or believer can do or contribute that I can not.
I have a social backdrop which is stimulating and warm, so I don't require the social interaction religions offer.
I am happy with my job as well as my private life and don't require further peer confirmation through religion.
I have a purpose which is to enjoy this life here and be as supportive towards others as I can be and later be remembered as a great human being.But not everyone is so lucky and needs or just enjoys the fringe benefits of religion.
What is equally important is that I don't require answers to each and every question. I am quite happy with hearing an "I don't know" when asking what caused the spontaneous merging of inorganic cells to form organic materials. Maybe I will never know. Fine. It does not force me to automatically substitute this with a god.In summary, I can understand why some people like the idea of believing in a super-natural being which represents a gigantic authority where humans considered evil can get away with it here on Earth, but not forever and not with an all-powerful being around. Some people like the idea of having guidance and the feeling of self-righteousness. And who does not like the idea of justice and being rewarded for being good and getting punished for being bad? The only remaining problem is to determine what exactly is being good and being bad - when they are not extremes but get blurry.
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Peace StopS.
I am really glad that you are happy.
I sincerely mean it.
Other people are just as happy believing in GOD.
Peace.
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The idea of Everything arising by coincidence, accident and by random, I see as a something you escape to when you cannot see anything else. What is coincidence, accidents and randomness anyway? Aren't they described as such simply due to the fact that their chains of cause and effect are too complex for us to grasp, or that we for some other reason cannot grasp it?
One may see reality and define God as that which BY DEFINITION is the cause of this. Then there is no need to discuss details or lower images that don't make sense. People reject the idea of God because the images and theories of God often don't make sense.
If we just feel that God is that from which all comes, we can agree on this, and the leave the details.If creation is a light beam, then there must be a light source. This we can agree on. Describing this source can then be debated forever.
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I asked the same question.. why should i believe in God? Whats the purpose?
but i started thinking that the existence of a God creates purpose in life.
There are many people who ask 'why would God exist and not help the millions of people under poverty and suffering' in an attempt to prove that God DOESNt exist.On the contrary, I believe this is proof that he DOES exist. I believe this is all a test by God.
All the people who have suffered will be rewarded while all the evil corrupt greedy tyrants of this world will be punished.A belief in God creates hope and a purpose for living.
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I asked the same question.. why should i believe in God? Whats the purpose?
but i started thinking that the existence of a God creates purpose in life.
There are many people who ask 'why would God exist and not help the millions of people under poverty and suffering' in an attempt to prove that God DOESNt exist.On the contrary, I believe this is proof that he DOES exist. I believe this is all a test by God.
All the people who have suffered will be rewarded while all the evil corrupt greedy tyrants of this world will be punished.A belief in God creates hope and a purpose for living.
This belief is basically what kept me going through periods of doubt. At the end of the day, believing that there is a God and that He is Good, makes me a stronger person able to keep trying to make the world a better place even when all the bad seems overwhelming. So, when my doubts are at their strongest, I hold on to logic. It would be illogical to abandon Islam, when I can clearly see that it makes me stronger with getting involved in activist projects. Not ideal, but it's kept me searching through the hardest times, until I could overcome the doubts.
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Why do you believe in God? I have found no reason to believe any God actually exist, and why would you believe a book at face value? I don't get this, and I'm honestly interested in the responses to this.
Why not believe in God? I have found many reasons to believe God actually exists,
The Quran proves it should be taken at face value? I get it. and I'm honestly interested
in a response to this.Peace
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Peace, hawkninetynine.
Why not believe in God? I have found many reasons to believe God actually exists,
The Quran proves it should be taken at face value? I get it. and I'm honestly interested
in a response to this.Are you asking whether or not the Qur'aan "proves" that it should be taken at face value, or are you stating that, from your perspective, the Qur'aan DOES prove that it should be taken at face value? I don't completely understand your statement in regards to this...
The prime reason why many people believe in any god (or gods) is due to fear of the unknown. They form the generative conclusion that, "This life can't be all there is." Otherwise, they make the common assumption, "All of this beauty and splendor must've been designed by some grand designer," etc. In addition, the concept of divinity gives people hope (and faith) for the future, particularly with regards to what will happen to them after death. Generally, people who struggle throughout their lives wish for (or even await) some type of "happy ending" once their lives are over. That's generally why religiosity is dramatically higher in poor countries, especially when compared to economically-thriving countries, where religiosity is increasingly lower. Those who've had to struggle for lengthy periods of time want some type of 'reward', which they assume they won't receive during their lifetimes. This can also be applied to the concept of justice; people who feel they've been wronged in some way by others who are seemingly 'above the law' want those wrongdoers to suffer the 'punishment' for their crimes after death, since they probably won't experience it while they're alive.
There are other factors too, but I won't discuss them at the moment...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace, hawkninetynine.
Are you asking whether or not the Qur'aan "proves" that it should be taken at face value, or are you stating that, from your perspective, the Qur'aan DOES prove that it should be taken at face value? I don't completely understand your statement in regards to this...
The prime reason why many people believe in any god (or gods) is due to fear of the unknown. They form the generative conclusion that, "This life can't be all there is." Otherwise, they make the common assumption, "All of this beauty and splendor must've been designed by some grand designer," etc. In addition, the concept of divinity gives people hope (and faith) for the future, particularly with regards to what will happen to them after death. Generally, people who struggle throughout their lives wish for (or even await) some type of "happy ending" once their lives are over. That's generally why religiosity is dramatically higher in poor countries, especially when compared to economically-thriving countries, where religiosity is increasingly lower. Those who've had to struggle for lengthy periods of time want some type of 'reward', which they assume they won't receive during their lifetimes. This can also be applied to the concept of justice; people who feel they've been wronged in some way by others who are seemingly 'above the law' want those wrongdoers to suffer the 'punishment' for their crimes after death, since they probably won't experience it while they're alive.
There are other factors too, but I won't discuss them at the moment...
Peace,
Ahmad
The part of your post I bolded isn't entirely true. Islam has been on a steady rise in North America for some time, now, with a massive increase in interest following 9/11. In Europe, the decline of traditional authoritarian religions has held steady and secularism continues to rise, but the belief in God has also held steady, nonetheless. It's just that in European culture, religious identity is extremely unlikely to be tied to a person's social identity and is considered more personal, therefore, Europeans are much less likely to attend any church or "vote with their Bibles" as is common in America.
Also, from a personal standpoint; I didn't turn to Islam out of a desire for a "reward" or justice in the next life, I stayed with it because it showed me how to attain my personal rewards and social justice for all in this life. I can't speak for all believers, but I know this to be true of my Christian friends as well, and I suspect it's true for a lot of Muslims, too.
I don't disagree with you about the motivations in poorer countries, though. That has kinda been the whole point of a lot of religions for a long time; keep the masses happy with nothing in life while they wait to die. That explains why secularism has been on the rise in areas where people have more access to education. Too many people are now familiar with the negative effects of theocracy so they go in the complete opposite direction. On the other hand, a lot of people are now seeing how to have belief without complacency or intolerance.
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Peace, neb87.
There are a few issues, theologically, with your post, especially from a traditional Islamic perspective.
The part of your post I bolded isn't entirely true. Islam has been on a steady rise in North America for some time, now, with a massive increase in interest following 9/11. In Europe, the decline of traditional authoritarian religions has held steady and secularism continues to rise, but the belief in God has also held steady, nonetheless. It's just that in European culture, religious identity is extremely unlikely to be tied to a person's social identity and is considered more personal, therefore, Europeans are much less likely to attend any church or "vote with their Bibles" as is common in America.
You're correct - Islam has been on the rise in North America, although I wouldn't call this rise "steady". However, we have to look at the foundational aspects of what you call "Islam". For example, a large aspect of Islamic growth in North America can be attributed to the dramatic increase in membership in the Nation of Islam, headed by Eugene Walcott (e.g. "Minister Louis Farrakhan", which is based out of Chicago. Indeed, they classify themselves as Muslims, following the tenets of the religion of Islam. Yet, most Muslims throughout the world do NOT recognize them as being part of the Islamic family in America due to some of the principles they propagate. The same can be stated concerning the recent rapid increase in membership of the Moorish Science Temple of America, which is also based out of Chicago, in which their late leader, Timothy Drew (e.g. "Noble Drew Ali", declared himself to be a prophet in the modern times. The traditional Islamic world proclaimed that this was incompatible with the Qur'aanic statement concerning Muhammad (or "Mohammed", as the students of Noble Drew Ali refer to him) being the 'last prophet'. In addition, Noble Drew Ali even authored a "Koran", generally known today as the (Circle 7) Holy Koran of the Moorish Science Temple, based on the "Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ" by Levi Dowling, which is completely contrary to traditional Islamic ideals.
Not satisfied? The Ahmadiyya Islamic sect (which is actually comprised of two separate sects) has grown dramatically within the past 15 years in both the United States and Canada, mostly based on their publicized broadcasting of their message and the widespread use of the late Maulana Muhammad Ali's translation of the Qur'aan; this group was recognized as "Un-Islamic" by traditional Muslim leaders. Other groups, such as the Aswad Hanafi Muslims, the Ansaar Allah Community, the Theosophical Muslim Community, the Society of Hebrew Muslims, the Aswad al-Akbar Society, and even the El Rukn Fellowship group (which is directly tied to a growing streetgang based in Chicago), all refer to themselves as Muslims (or "Moslems". Are they accepted among the traditional Islamic populace? Absolutely not!
Yet, their numbers are used when statisticians claim that Islam is "on the rise". Hell, some of them even use statistics in relation to the modern growth of the Five Percent Nation of Gods and Earths, particularly during the widespread appeal of hip-hop music in American urban communities, due to their statement regarding practicing "Islam" (although most of them staunchly refuse to call themselves "Muslims" or possessors of any religious affiliation)! So, believe me - the claim that Islam is "on the rise" in North America is not impressive to me at all, nor are the statistics accurate.
In addition, statistically, the belief in a god has dramatically decreased in America, especially in light of the propagation of atheists and agnostics gaining widespread appeal and influence. For example, the membership of the group American Atheists increased dramatically after Richard Dawkins released his book "The God Delusion", propagated his book on television, and then sponsored documentaries (known respectively as "The Root of All Evil" and "Enemies of Reason" concerning the points addressed in the book, which were aired in America and parts of Europe. The Freedom From Religion Foundation swelled in numbers after Professor Victor Stenger published and released his book entitled "God The Failed Hypothesis", in which he questions religious enthusiasts and supporters concerning the scientific validity of modern religious belief... If we want to be fair, then we also have to cite the fact that superstitious claimants and conspiracy theorists are "on the rise", especially in connection with the so-called 'Illuminati' controlling the global social, political and economic scene. Oh, and we also have to recognize the fact that these groups began swelling dramatically after the "9/11 attacks"...
Also, from a personal standpoint; I didn't turn to Islam out of a desire for a "reward" or justice in the next life, I stayed with it because it showed me how to attain my personal rewards and social justice for all in this life. I can't speak for all believers, but I know this to be true of my Christian friends as well, and I suspect it's true for a lot of Muslims, too.
I agree with you, and many people have varying reasons for their beliefs. I merely cited what I regarded as the most common - other than, of course, the position of those who've held onto religious cultures and communities that they've been raised in, primarily because of family or social traditions and norms. In all, though, we can conclude that many people do it for differing reasons; it ultimately depends on one's perspective and upbringing.
I don't disagree with you about the motivations in poorer countries, though. That has kinda been the whole point of a lot of religions for a long time; keep the masses happy with nothing in life while they wait to die. That explains why secularism has been on the rise in areas where people have more access to education. Too many people are now familiar with the negative effects of theocracy so they go in the complete opposite direction. On the other hand, a lot of people are now seeing how to have belief without complacency or intolerance.
Is it really possible to have religion without complacency and intolerance? The concept of religion is to differentiate people to divide them and to keep them distinct. "If you don't believe what I believe, then you're not with me." That's the traditional religious mindstate, even among so-called Qur'aanists and Qur'aan-Aloners. Even Christians don't get along anymore, because Christianity isn't reflective enough; now there are Baptists, Protestants, Seventh-Day Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, etc. And now, all the groups have subgroups to supplement their divisive perspectives... What do you think? Is there "unity" in Islam?
The lack of unity promotes intolerance, since religious people generally can't claim to be going to "heaven" without threatening to send other people (particularly those who disagree with their views) to "hell". Complacency naturally comes as well, since people can't think of the 'afterlife' without developing a determination of what they want when they get there, which is ultimately everything they can't have here! Once they begin to think that some outside (supernatural?) agent is going to put bread on their table, that's usually when they decide to stop working and start praying.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace, neb87.
There are a few issues, theologically, with your post, especially from a traditional Islamic perspective.
You're correct - Islam has been on the rise in North America, although I wouldn't call this rise "steady". However, we have to look at the foundational aspects of what you call "Islam". For example, a large aspect of Islamic growth in North America can be attributed to the dramatic increase in membership in the Nation of Islam
The highlighted portion is provably untrue as the NOI does not publish it's membership numbers. BUT, based on third-party observation of how many people attend their mosques or community functions, and general population survey results their numbers are currently estimated at between 10,000-50,000. This would be a massive DECREASE from their membership of 500,000 just 50 years ago under Malcolm X. There has been very little interest in the NOI among American converts and you shouldn't present such information without backing it up with hard numbers. It's an insult to American converts who have no interest in joining a racist organization that has been designated as a hate group in the same boat as the Westboro Baptist Church.
Also, as of the latest polling data 23% of all people who self-identify as Muslim in America are native-born converts ,25% are native-born Muslims, and the rest are foreign-born Muslim citizens. Even the most conservative estimates say that Islam is on it's way to becoming the second-largest religion in the States in the next 2-10 years, at the current rate of conversion.
In addition, statistically, the belief in a god has dramatically decreased in America, especially in light of the propagation of atheists and agnostics gaining widespread appeal and influence.
I suggest you read this before you make any more generalizations about religion in America. Only 16% of Americans are reported as being "unaffiliated with any particular religion" and of these only a quarter are atheist or agnostic. The rest are individuals who've left a church without joining a new one, but still hold their beliefs. The "belief in a god" has NOT dramatically decreased in America, in fact, it's only gotten more diverse as more people are switching faiths or choosing to go their own way instead of belonging to an organized religion.
Is it really possible to have religion without complacency and intolerance? The concept of religion is to differentiate people to divide them and to keep them distinct. "If you don't believe what I believe, then you're not with me." That's the traditional religious mindstate, even among so-called Qur'aanists and Qur'aan-Aloners. Even Christians don't get along anymore, because Christianity isn't reflective enough; now there are Baptists, Protestants, Seventh-Day Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, etc. And now, all the groups have subgroups to supplement their divisive perspectives... What do you think? Is there "unity" in Islam?
The diversity of Christianity in America has rarely been a cause of any great distress. As an American and a former Christian, I can tell you from first-hand experience that most demoninations get along with each other pretty well, in practice. The different scholars like to disagree on theology, but the people themselves rarely treat each other as "other". I've only seen that with extremists such as Westboro or the polygamous Mormons. In fact, after turning atheist at 13 I still regularly attended one of many non-denominatioal Christian churches (which are also on the rise, btw) where I met many other atheists and agnostics who were not treated as something less-than.
As for complacency, the "better" religious groups are well-known for their community outreach programs. Even the infamous NOI were well-respected for their hugely successful efforts at clearing out drug dealers and prostitutes from low-income neighborhoods in the 90's. I don't agree with the theology of Mormonism or their tactics, but I would never deny that their missionary work in the third-world is well-intentioned. In my experience with volunteer work, I've found that there are more people around who identify as religious or at least agnostic than atheist. Not to say that there are none, because that would be a blatant lie, but it's undeniable that a belief in God DOES push people to do more good works for their community.
My bottom-line is that you cannot look at how religion is abused in oppressed countries and then just assume it has the same function in countries that have less overt oppression. There are far too many other factors at play for why it's being used negatively over here and positively over there.
The lack of unity promotes intolerance, since religious people generally can't claim to be going to "heaven" without threatening to send other people (particularly those who disagree with their views) to "hell". Complacency naturally comes as well, since people can't think of the 'afterlife' without developing a determination of what they want when they get there, which is ultimately everything they can't have here! Once they begin to think that some outside (supernatural?) agent is going to put bread on their table, that's usually when they decide to stop working and start praying.
The lack of "unity in beliefs" SOMETIMES promotes intolerance, but SOMETIMES it's used to promote a more realistic concept of "unity in diversity". From what I've seen, more and more people are just coming to realize that the former concept is unattainable, but the latter is entirely doable. I see it work with my own eyes and try hard to live it myself, everyday. As you and I both stated, culture and individual personalities matter much, much more than religion to how people use whatever tools they have.
Complacency does not "naturally" come with religious belief. If a people are already beaten down to the point where they see their situation as hopeless, then yes, religion may be used as a crutch to help bear it. BUT, it is just as likely that an oppressed people will use religion as a stick to help them beat off their oppressors. There are examples of both scenarios in history and in modern times.
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Hell, some of them even use statistics in relation to the modern growth of the Five Percent Nation of Gods and Earths, particularly during the widespread appeal of hip-hop music in American urban communities, due to their statement regarding practicing "Islam" (although most of them staunchly refuse to call themselves "Muslims" or possessors of any religious affiliation)! So, believe me - the claim that Islam is "on the rise" in North America is not impressive to me at all, nor are the statistics accurate.
I didn't address that statement in my first post, because I have no idea what you're saying here, but just for the record, I think it should be pointed out that it is complete and utter nonsense.
This highlighted statement has ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS IN REALITY, WHATSOEVER. There is NO connection between Hip Hop and Islam in America beyond the normal occurence of religion and art intersecting. I, personally, can name more bands that are connected to Judaism (one, Matisyahu) than I can Hip Hop artists connected to Islam (zero), simply because there is NO mainstream or well-known connection there.
The statement that there are people in American urban communities "claiming" to practice Islam for no apparent reason, is complete garbage and you should be ashamed of yourself for even trying to slip that in as a valid claim.
There is no connection between the rise of conversion to Islam and "urban communities" other than the fact that a little less than half of all new converts are African-American, but White-Americans make up about half, too. It's pretty evenly split across racial lines.
Edit I thought of one Muslim Hip-Hop artist; Lupe Fiasco. But the fact that it took me nearly 20 minutes to think of just one further proves that there isn't any mainstream connection in the States between Islam and Hip-Hop.