Suaib times

Kaiokenred

Ask Allah to show you to the truth, and to let you be able to handle the truth.

Also, the best we can do is to read all articles we can find on salat/solaa and do our own research with the help of resources like Project Root List. There are several articles on what Salat is and is not. We need to go thru them all... ask Allah for guidance and be patient.

I think it may be more difficult than we think to approach a topic from scratch. We always have many assumptions and old ideas we have been taught. The topics in the quran are also, it seems to me, connected to each other, so if we are able to break free from one faulty understanding, there might be some other topic becoming an obstacle for us making it difficult to move towards a pure understanding since we are unconsciously stuck in assumptions about that topic.

We should however have the intention in the heart to find the real meanings... to advance.

Peace

I'm gonna try to fast ( There's likely I will fail though ) for 40 days this year's hottest month.
I will ask a question and I hope I get answered )

Mr_Q

I read many translations, and agree with what is most reasonable to me.

What is "reasonable" to a person is not a Quranic criteria for Judging what to follow. Some people find a trinitarian God reasonable, some people find atheism reasonable, some people find UFO's and ghosts reasonable. They are all nothing more than following personal opinions and personal desire.

We are taught in the Quran that many people who acknowledged God rejected messengers because the idea of new messengers wasn't reasonable in their personal view. That others rejected the idea of being Resurrected because it wasn't reasonable in their personal view. Still others rejected applying and upholding Quranic teachings on prayer, repentance, fasting, ablution, charity and the nature of God, etc because they don't understand or it's not "reasonable" in their personal view.

God teaches in the Quran to follow The Truth, even when we don't like it or it doesn't seem "reasonable" from our perspective or limited understanding. Conjecture, guesswork and personal opinions are no substitutes for the Truth.

Kaiokenred

What is "reasonable" to a person is not a Quranic criteria for Judging what to follow. Some people find a trinitarian God reasonable, some people find atheism reasonable, some people find UFO's and ghosts reasonable. They are all nothing more than following personal opinions and personal desire.

We are taught in the Quran that many people who acknowledged God rejected messengers because the idea of new messengers wasn't reasonable in their personal view. That others rejected the idea of being Resurrected because it wasn't reasonable in their personal view. Still others rejected applying and upholding Quranic teachings on prayer, repentance, fasting, ablution, charity and the nature of God, etc because they don't understand or it's not "reasonable" in their personal view.

God teaches in the Quran to follow The Truth, even when we don't like it or it doesn't seem "reasonable" from our perspective or limited understanding. Conjecture, guesswork and personal opinions are no substitutes for the Truth.

Yeah and that is very subjective, thus totally matters to the person reason what will he/she believe to be the truth

Also, salat and other words being rituals are simply your opinion.

So what people believe to be the Truth can be different from what you think the Truth is.

Mr_Q

The Truth is what God says it is and He explains it and gives all the examples necessary for salvation in the Quran. We only need to follow what He says in it, the examples given in it and what He describes to us in it.

Kaiokenred

The Truth is what God says it is and He explains it and gives all the examples necessary for salvation in the Quran. We only need to follow what He says in it, the examples given in it and what He describes to us in it.

What proof have you got that God exists?
Again, that is only your belief. It doesn't make it truth.
I believe Allah is the creator, but that's just my belief, it's not obvious, most things aren't.
Also there are many interpretations of the Quran, who are you too chose which one is correct?

nurmuhammed

What is "reasonable" to a person is not a Quranic criteria for Judging what to follow. Some people find a trinitarian God reasonable, some people find atheism reasonable, some people find UFO's and ghosts reasonable. They are all nothing more than following personal opinions and personal desire.

We are taught in the Quran that many people who acknowledged God rejected messengers because the idea of new messengers wasn't reasonable in their personal view. That others rejected the idea of being Resurrected because it wasn't reasonable in their personal view. Still others rejected applying and upholding Quranic teachings on prayer, repentance, fasting, ablution, charity and the nature of God, etc because they don't understand or it's not "reasonable" in their personal view.

God teaches in the Quran to follow The Truth, even when we don't like it or it doesn't seem "reasonable" from our perspective or limited understanding. Conjecture, guesswork and personal opinions are no substitutes for the Truth.

yeah

Dear Mr.Q,

= Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnifiy, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.

I want to ask you a question, which one of this translation you choose and why?

Best Regards.

Mr_Q

What proof have you got that God exists?
Again, that is only your belief. It doesn't make it truth.
I believe Allah is the creator, but that's just my belief, it's not obvious, most things aren't.
Also there are many interpretations of the Quran, who are you too chose which one is correct?

First, lets get the semantics and word games out of the way. Allah=God=Most Gracious=Almighty=Most Wise etc. They are all Names of Him.

You "believe" God is the Creator? Based on what? Don't you condemn "blind faith"? You follow and promote SOL as truth while proclaiming no knowledge of Arabic, proclaiming ALL translations are wildly wrong and proclaiming Abdun Nur's incompleted "translation" as true and accurate. How is all this simply not blind faith, not based on evidence, but on person opinion?

I don't believe in God on just faith. (very briefly) I believe in Him because of rational and logical deductions based on evidence shown in all of creation. The universe, earth, plants, animals, humans, physics, chemistry, biology, micobiology, the structure of cells and DNA all clearly show indisputable evidence of Intelligent Design, Purpose and Planning. Random, purposeless chance cannot account for it, nor produce it, thus Intelligent Design denotes and necessitates an Intelligent Designer capable of doing such things. That would be God.

As for translations, you can either learn Arabic yourself or use Quranic principles of mutual consultation, asking questions, verification, consistency, no contradictions and asking the experts and using reason and logic. I personally comparatively study/have access to 7 different translations, with many more available if needed and have access to sites like this if I have any doubt or questions. I also have access to people who can read Arabic if I need them.

Most translations are very similar with some "disputed" understandings or applications. In those limited cases, use more Quranic principles, read all the views, verify and critically examine their positions and evidence, let the Quran explain itself consistantly, choose the best and put your trust in God but remain open to new understandings/views. God is the Teacher of the Quran and people can only come to understand certain things when/if He wills it.

That's really it. We are accountable for what we choose to follow and for our efforts in learning His message.

Mr_Q

yeah

Dear Mr.Q,

= Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnifiy, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.

I want to ask you a question, which one of this translation you choose and why?

Best Regards.

Trick question? You would choose the best use the same way as everything else; context, use in the Quran, examples from Quran and consistency of meaning preventing contradictions.

Kaiokenred

First, lets get the semantics and word games out of the way. Allah=God=Most Gracious=Almighty=Most Wise etc. They are all Names of Him.

You "believe" God is the Creator? Based on what? Don't you condemn "blind faith"? You follow and promote SOL as truth while proclaiming no knowledge of Arabic, proclaiming ALL translations are wildly wrong and proclaiming Abdun Nur's incompleted "translation" as true and accurate. How is all this simply not blind faith, not based on evidence, but on person opinion?

I don't believe in God on just faith. (very briefly) I believe in Him because of rational and logical deductions based on evidence shown in all of creation. The universe, earth, plants, animals, humans, physics, chemistry, biology, micobiology, the structure of cells and DNA all clearly show indisputable evidence of Intelligent Design, Purpose and Planning. Random, purposeless chance cannot account for it, nor produce it, thus Intelligent Design denotes and necessitates an Intelligent Designer capable of doing such things. That would be God.

As for translations, you can either learn Arabic yourself or use Quranic principles of mutual consultation, asking questions, verification, consistency, no contradictions and asking the experts and using reason and logic. I personally comparatively study/have access to 7 different translations, with many more available if needed and have access to sites like this if I have any doubt or questions. I also have access to people who can read Arabic if I need them.

Most translations are very similar with some "disputed" understandings or applications. In those limited cases, use more Quranic principles, read all the views, verify and critically examine their positions and evidence, let the Quran explain itself consistantly, choose the best and put your trust in God but remain open to new understandings/views. God is the Teacher of the Quran and people can only come to understand certain things when/if He wills it.

That's really it. We are accountable for what we choose to follow and for our efforts in learning His message.

Belief is not faith

What makes people experts?
In my opinion Abdun Nur and Badar Kanwar are the best experts alive.

You believe in translations that are so obviously heavily affected by hadiths even if done unintentionally by Quran alone muslims, how is that also not your person opinion?

I always read translations from Sahih International, Shakir, Dr. Ghali, Muhsin Khan, Free minds, Rashad Khalifa, Yusuf Ali etc... If possible, I read Badar Kanwar's translations and if also possible Aidid Safar's

"I don't believe in God on just faith. (very briefly) I believe in Him because of rational and logical deductions based on evidence shown in all of creation."

That's what I do to, with other evidence too, but rational and logical thought is also subjective. It doesn't make your belief da bast beeleef evah just because YOU can agree with it

About the bold, that's exactly what I do ( just replace God with Allah ) . Didn't I always imply this?
Even I have a friend (lordfox) who knows arabic, and did ask other people before I knew him, among the others things you mentioned

Mr_Q

What makes people experts?
In my opinion Abdun Nur and Badar Kanwar are the best experts alive.

You believe in translations that are so obviously heavily affected by hadiths even if done unintentionally by Quran alone muslims, how is that also not your person opinion?

Evidence for such claims? Please present.

Kaiokenred

Evidence for such claims? Please present.

For the first one? Didn't I say that was my opinion? It means it make sense to me. It looks reasonable to me. It's subjective isn't it? Just like how you believe other people to be experts.

About the second one, have you ever heard about common sense?
Do you know how ridiculous it is to suggest that translations aren't heavily affected by hadiths?
What are you gonna say next, evidence for the sky being blue?
Please never reply to me again, never, unless you stop with this nonsense.

Oh so it says he is posting here again, I guess I'll just add him to my ignore list, he annoyed me enough. Waste of my time tsch

Mr_Q

About the second one, have you ever heard about common sense?
Do you know how ridiculous it is to suggest that translations aren't heavily affected by hadiths?
What are you gonna say next, evidence for the sky being blue?
Please never reply to me again, never, unless you stop with this nonsense.

It is you making the claim that all translations except for Abdun Nur's are corrupt and wrong. If you are making the hadithic corruption claim, to the vast extent of discarding all translations, save for SOL's, then you need to provide the evidence for such a claim.

The other problem is you are claiming all translations are completely corrupt and wrong but the very Quranic principles I said I use, and you said you do too, all come from those same corrupt and wrong translations. How do you pick and choose what you follow from translations based on your own criteria for choosing?

nurmuhammed

Trick question? You would choose the best use the same way as everything else; context, use in the Quran, examples from Quran and consistency of meaning preventing contradictions.

No man, there is no trick. I'm just interested on your explanation.
NO force.

Bigmo

Yes, he might as well have performed his contacts with God Almighty (not the ritual namaz, but the contacting God in general)

Salat was first revealed to Abraham/isaac/Jacob 2173
Salat/contacting God was revived during Moses's time (2014)
People then lost salat/contacting God (1959)
Salat was Re-revived and established to Muhammed (16123)

Sow what did Noah do? He didn't offer salat? All humans have a form of salat.
http//www.howtopracticezen.com/prostrated_monk.jpg

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http//media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/gallery/100115/GAL-10Jan15-3562/media/PHO-10Jan15-199034.jpgimg]http//www.beliefnet.com/~/media/01C8442413F84D1C81AD5A4B27DF5586.ashx?w=400&h=300

https//www.wagner.edu/news/sites/wagner.edu.news/files/101013%20Ganesh%20image%20installed%20in%20Kairos%20House%20chapel.jpg

http//www.bible-history.com/ibh/Babylonian+Gods/Sun+God/Worship+of+the+Babylon+Sun+God

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lordfox

I wonder why some keep on believing thins that are neither sustainable philosophically, linguistically nor quranically.

Kaiokenred