Prayer Direction
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Peace,
- 2115 To God belongs the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is God's presence. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety is one who acknowledges God and the Last day...
- 2142 The foolish from amongst the people will say, "What has turned them away from the focal point that they were on?" Say, "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path."
Clearly the foolish are the only ones who care about trivial east/west/direction BS.
2143 As such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witnesses over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. We did not make the focal point that you came on except so that we know who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a big deal indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your acknowledgement. God is Kind and Compassionate over the people.
2144 We see the shifting of your face towards the sky (for guidance); We will thus set for you a focal point/goal that will be pleasing to you, "You shall set yourself towards al-masjid al-haram; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the book know it is the truth from their Lord. God is not oblivious of what you do.
The focal point/goal ("qiblah" is meant to be faced WHEREVER we are. It is not brought into connection with "al salat".
2145 Even if you come to those who have been given the book with every sign, they will not follow your "qiblah", nor will you follow their "qibalh", nor will some of them even follow each other's "qiblah". If you were to follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you would be one of the wicked.
Obviously God is not mentioning a trivial thing such as a "direction of prayer", but, rather, an attitude and goal.
2146 Those to whom We have given the book know it as they know their own children, and a group of them hides the truth while they know.
Do Jews/Christians turn towards Mecca? Do they think that this is the "truth from their Lord"? Or is it a mindset/goal/focus point? We are to face al-masjid-al-haram WHEREVER we are.
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Peace,
- 2115 To God belongs the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is God's presence. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety is one who acknowledges God and the Last day...
- 2142 The foolish from amongst the people will say, "What has turned them away from the focal point that they were on?" Say, "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path."
Clearly the foolish are the only ones who care about trivial east/west/direction BS.
2143 As such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witnesses over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. We did not make the focal point that you came on except so that we know who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a big deal indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your acknowledgement. God is Kind and Compassionate over the people.
2144 We see the shifting of your face towards the sky (for guidance); We will thus set for you a focal point/goal that will be pleasing to you, "You shall set yourself towards al-masjid al-haram; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the book know it is the truth from their Lord. God is not oblivious of what you do.
The focal point/goal ("qiblah" is meant to be faced WHEREVER we are. It is not brought into connection with "al salat".
2145 Even if you come to those who have been given the book with every sign, they will not follow your "qiblah", nor will you follow their "qibalh", nor will some of them even follow each other's "qiblah". If you were to follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you would be one of the wicked.
Obviously God is not mentioning a trivial thing such as a "direction of prayer", but, rather, an attitude and goal.
2146 Those to whom We have given the book know it as they know their own children, and a group of them hides the truth while they know.
Do Jews/Christians turn towards Mecca? Do they think that this is the "truth from their Lord"? Or is it a mindset/goal/focus point? We are to face al-masjid-al-haram WHEREVER we are.
Selam Progressive1993, nice to see you again ,
Much appreciative of your input (would also like to see Youssef's defense in this). I agree with you as well, but one thing...
What IS the Al Masjid Al Haram then...
Everyone was turning to the sky for guidance, so Allah gave us this al masjid al haram... but it's not a building... or a place(?) but Allah tells us that he set a focal point so that the people knew who followed the messenger.. but the Qur'an is not based on a one time basis, unless it was specifically referring to some building at that time but doesn't apply now? Or am I just confusing myself...
Peace Progressive1993 peace and nice to see someone a bit younger than me doing so well on this . I feel like I should have looked at this earlier but study is the main source of boredom and time consumption lol xD.
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Peace!
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The mullahs love to put fear into all of us. Do this and do that... or else >
Mullahs et al love numbers, methods, manuals, motions. Mullahs represent the robotic industrialization of religion. Just like human labor was not needed much when automated robots took over the production industry.. just like that, our common sense is not much needed when automated rituals took over the expression of faith. -
As far as I'm personally concerned, the truth about what masjid, haram, bayt and many other quranic concepts and words are far from clear. It will take lots of asking Allah for guidance and clearing of old fears and entrained ideas to get closer to the truth. I feel it is good to take a step backwards and feel what is actually important to us. I have problems seeing why a certain prayer direction would matter at all. How the heck does a physical qibla make me a better person or help have a positive influence on society? I also can't see the purpose with the traditional namaz style... just to mention one thing. These are all physical things. We are not physical in essence. There are many things which, when you think about them, seem to be very hollow and practically useless practices... not really making a difference or producing some benefit or constructive result in one's life, especially in relation to others. We have to keep in mind that all we do need to make sense in the social context. Even that which is personal and inner, will reflect in our interaction with society and people.
So I don't think there is any need of a compass. )
peace!
Couldn't have said it better. Many become Koranist and change what they think but not how they think. What you said is a strategic shift on how a person thinks about deen.
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I would think a qibla, would be a direction for prayer, as to promote harmony. Instead of people facing all different directions.
How does 'direction of prayer' has any correlation with 'harmony'???
Sunni and Shiites 'face the same direction' and the 'relationship' between them is far from harmony..
Sunni and Ahmadi 'face the same direction' and the 'relationship' between them is far from harmony..
Heck.. even within the Sunni, they regularly bash each other head over small petty matter..And people face different directions everytime anyway..
Harmony can only be achieved when there's tolerance, understanding and respect among people..
It has nothing to do with 'face direction'..Salam / Peace
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2144 We see the shifting of your face towards the sky (for guidance); We will thus set for you a focal point/goal that will be pleasing to you, "You shall set yourself towards al-masjid al-haram; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the book know it is the truth from their Lord. God is not oblivious of what you do.
The focal point/goal ("qiblah" is meant to be faced WHEREVER we are. It is not brought into connection with "al salat".
Interesting. As soon as I find more time, I will gather the different non-traditional ideas about what almasjid alharam is, and see what I can gather from it. There are some out there.
Very interesting to see how people automatically associates qibla with salat... without quran mentioning this link (if I've understood correctly). How ignorant!
What IS the Al Masjid Al Haram then...
Like they said in the movie 'I, robot' "THAT is the right question"
Peace
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Selam Jafar,
same. But it's really making me terribly sad because I really love him but I just don't think it is necessary to pray towards that direction.
Maybe I'm going a bit too crazy into this but 99% of muslims I know all pray towards Mecca... Mosque's have an indication of where it is.... even the non-fanatics tell me this... and I feel a bit lost... and my partner tells me this...
If your partner truly loves you, he will respect your beliefs/ways and not put you down or impose his views on you. He doesn't have to agree and you don't have to agree with him. and the two of you may have differing and passionate convincing discussions but at the end of the day, there needs to be respect and acceptance by both sides. It doesn't matter in which direction you pray or the form - so, pray alongside with him like the way he does. harmony as jafar said is in tolerance, understanding and respect. may the two of you have a harmonious blessed long life together and not argue/ divide over petty religious stuff.
just because 99% of muslims believe in something, doesn't make it a truth. a lie believed by 99% is still a lie.
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Salaam to all sun
In my preception of facts We are not supose to face specific focal point for a worship act.
We are here to serve(ibada) Creator and observ the Signs. AQuran is the Furqan the Kitab wich contains rules for Humans and Jiin to separate Religion(manmade) from Deen of the balanced Path. The Quran clerly teel us Arabs are the worst in Hipocrisy and in Extraviation.
Masjid is a state of Reflection and respective enlighment after reflection and ponder. MAsjid Al harami has nothing to do with makka. Focal point is Internal,Sol-laa Commit
Sol-luu Be committed
Sol-lee Binding
Mu-Sol-lan A person who is committed
Mu-Sol-leen Many people who are committed
Yu-Sol-laa They commit
Yu-Sol-lee Their commitments
Yu-Sol-luu They have committed
Ya-sil-luu Bind
Solaa-ta Commitment (singular)
Solaa-tee Commitments (dual)
Solaa-tu Commitments (Aorist)
Solaa-waa-tee Obligatorily
Solaa-waa-tun obligatory
http//religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/construction.htm
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HagarismMekka Religion is man-made and 50% of its rituals come from Hidu Shiva(shiba) and the worship of MoonGod Venus (thats why the vagina with newborn baby) and Sanskrit(HIndu) sayings and 50% of Bible + Persian rituals and fabrications) and is like this before and after Muhamed(P)and has nothing to do with Islam (PEacfullnes)
http//www.aididsafar.com/shaivite.html
http//www.aididsafar.com/saim.htmlhttp//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/
Read all if you interested on it.. Salaam use your Mind sun
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Sol-laa Commit
Sol-luu Be committed
Sol-lee Binding
Mu-Sol-lan A person who is committed
Mu-Sol-leen Many people who are committed
Yu-Sol-laa They commit
Yu-Sol-lee Their commitments
Yu-Sol-luu They have committed
Ya-sil-luu Bind
Solaa-ta Commitment (singular)
Solaa-tee Commitments (dual)
Solaa-tu Commitments (Aorist)
Solaa-waa-tee Obligatorily
Solaa-waa-tun obligatory
http//religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/construction.htm
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HagarismI would agree completely... "Innani Anallahu, La Ilaha Illa Ana, Fa Budni Wa Aqimis Salata Li zikri".. that's what God said (if it's translated to Arabic) to Moses.. upon being asked "Who are you?"...
"Verily I'm The God, There's no god except Me, Thus Serve Me and Uphold the commandment/commitment for/as remembrance (Aqimis Salata Lil Zikri)"..
It's consistent with the theme found within Tanakh and Gospel...
Many times in many places on many books within, YHVH consistently said "Uphold your commandment!"..And also
Defend the poor and fatherless do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Justice and judgment are the habitation of Thy throne mercy and truth shall go before Thy face.
To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to YHVH than sacrifice.
Remove violence and spoil, and execute judgment and justice, take away your exactions from My people!
The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to YHVH, but the prayer of the upright is his delight.Mekka Religion is man-made and 50% of its rituals come from Hidu Shiva(shiba) and the worship of MoonGod Venus (thats why the vagina with newborn baby) and Sanskrit(HIndu) sayings and 50% of Bible + Persian rituals and fabrications) and is like this before and after Muhamed(P)and has nothing to do with Islam (PEacfullnes)
http//www.aididsafar.com/shaivite.html
http//www.aididsafar.com/saim.htmlhttp//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/
Read all if you interested on it.. Salaam use your Mind sun
Couldn't agree more... but as Quran said..
"let's not debate regarding the matter, yet invite them to your Rabb"..Salam / Peace
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If your partner truly loves you, he will respect your beliefs/ways and not put you down or impose his views on you. He doesn't have to agree and you don't have to agree with him. and the two of you may have differing and passionate convincing discussions but at the end of the day, there needs to be respect and acceptance by both sides. It doesn't matter in which direction you pray or the form - so, pray alongside with him like the way he does. harmony as jafar said is in tolerance, understanding and respect. may the two of you have a harmonious blessed long life together and not argue/ divide over petty religious stuff.
just because 99% of muslims believe in something, doesn't make it a truth. a lie believed by 99% is still a lie.
Selam Justamuslim,
Unfortunately when going into his family tradition, I would not have much of a choice but to do it... I keep getting many negative responses to anything other than praying towards the Black Stone and if I do otherwise it will be not entirely right. And apparently on reading the stuff about the moon god and the black stone is bs... And the prophet (pbuh) told people to pray towards it....
I found this website that was tryna make an argument... I'm thinking how authentic are these hadiths anyway... I only follow the Quran and whatever the prophet (pbuh) did but if he really did this then... I'm stuck again.... But the translations seem extremely extrapolated and biased. Any opinions from others too can shed some light.
http//islamnewsroom.com/news-we-need/403-blackbox1
Peace and blessings peace
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Slaam
while people keep Comparing/leveling the AQuran with hadith there will never be a way out of Idolatry.. and Yes Arabs worship a Moongod why is lunar calendar? (instead of Solar-lunar)? why kissing a stone? going 7times around it? make a running between hills and then trow rocks to expell shytan?? thats HINDU traditions.. as also fireworship and the veneration of Cows(baqara) AQURAN explicitly states we are not here to Follow death People(messengers).
We are here to Serv Creator trought Good deeds, and Hajj is nothing but to get out of your home/nest and find around you the diferences, to dialogue and learn with other points of view anfd prespectives, Learn and apply knowledge countinusly to daily life.. and being conscient of what actions are you doing... and THIS ACTIONS/SERVING CRATOR has nothing to do with Worship were one only promotes and focus on EGO.. WHAT HAPENING IN ARAB COUNTRIES??... Too much time worshiping and then miss the time to help others??? thats just another form of Religion made by man. AQURAN IS CLEAR and provides the Balanced Way Sistem not a ritualistic arab Fashion religion, thats culture not Deen.. And belive me i like Arab culture like i like Brasilian or Whatever.. We are suposedto think and act Globaly withouth watching diferences between US... not just Like what Happens in Mekka where Other religoius grups are not allowed to enter.. isnt the BAit Allah for ALL MANKIND??? why this extraviation of truth??? Islamic schoolars starting from Muslim andf Bukhari are just Reformers .. Islamic prayer is simply the Persian NAmaz or the hindu Puja.. Its very important to know what hapens in world and all religious moviments.., THE KEY WORD FOR NOT BE A LEMMING= SEARCH WISLY AND NOT EAT FALACIES FROM PEOPLE WHO WIN THEIRE LIFES WITH RELIGION(PRIESTS, IMAMNS; SHEIKS, mullahs ETCC).. Sad to see how We become sheeps in hand of other human beings..humans taht canot lead you to nothing but fake..
Why Muhamed Father is AbduLAH? Why AQURAN SAYS that AL uzza, Alat, etc are not CReator.. Try to find what Sanskript texts say there in Kaaba.. take some time with Hindu tradition and you will see that many many ritualistic stuff off ?Rabian Religion comes from it and not from AQuran.. sunSALAAM/PEACE/PAZ
From oldGHARB LANDALUZ -
Slaam
while people keep Comparing/leveling the AQuran with hadith there will never be a way out of Idolatry.. and Yes Arabs worship a Moongod why is lunar calendar? (instead of Solar-lunar)? why kissing a stone? going 7times around it? make a running between hills and then trow rocks to expell shytan?? thats HINDU traditions.. as also fireworship and the veneration of Cows(baqara) AQURAN explicitly states we are not here to Follow death People(messengers).
We are here to Serv Creator trought Good deeds, and Hajj is nothing but to get out of your home/nest and find around you the diferences, to dialogue and learn with other points of view anfd prespectives, Learn and apply knowledge countinusly to daily life.. and being conscient of what actions are you doing... and THIS ACTIONS/SERVING CRATOR has nothing to do with Worship were one only promotes and focus on EGO.. WHAT HAPENING IN ARAB COUNTRIES??... Too much time worshiping and then miss the time to help others??? thats just another form of Religion made by man. AQURAN IS CLEAR and provides the Balanced Way Sistem not a ritualistic arab Fashion religion, thats culture not Deen.. And belive me i like Arab culture like i like Brasilian or Whatever.. We are suposedto think and act Globaly withouth watching diferences between US... not just Like what Happens in Mekka where Other religoius grups are not allowed to enter.. isnt the BAit Allah for ALL MANKIND??? why this extraviation of truth??? Islamic schoolars starting from Muslim andf Bukhari are just Reformers .. Islamic prayer is simply the Persian NAmaz or the hindu Puja.. Its very important to know what hapens in world and all religious moviments.., THE KEY WORD FOR NOT BE A LEMMING= SEARCH WISLY AND NOT EAT FALACIES FROM PEOPLE WHO WIN THEIRE LIFES WITH RELIGION(PRIESTS, IMAMNS; SHEIKS, mullahs ETCC).. Sad to see how We become sheeps in hand of other human beings..humans taht canot lead you to nothing but fake..
Why Muhamed Father is AbduLAH? Why AQURAN SAYS that AL uzza, Alat, etc are not CReator.. Try to find what Sanskript texts say there in Kaaba.. take some time with Hindu tradition and you will see that many many ritualistic stuff off ?Rabian Religion comes from it and not from AQuran.. sunSALAAM/PEACE/PAZ
From oldGHARB LANDALUZSelam Nomad,
I have read your links. Just out of curiosity the first link was saying how Muhammed (pbuh) encorporated wrong things into the Qur'an which is a serious statement to make. Do you feel the same about this? It also states that Allah was one of the idols worshipped and had a wife.... I mean.... huh???
I'm even more confused than I first started out!... This can't be true, Allah is the Creator, the Supreme... |
Peace peace
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Selam Nomad,
I have read your links. Just out of curiosity the first link was saying how Muhammed (pbuh) encorporated wrong things into the Qur'an which is a serious statement to make. Do you feel the same about this? It also states that Allah was one of the idols worshipped and had a wife.... I mean.... huh???
I'm even more confused than I first started out!... This can't be true, Allah is the Creator, the Supreme... |
Peace peace
I didn't check the link, but if it says 'Allah' then it is simply a mistake that has been made, instead it should be 'All?t'.
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I didn't check the link, but if it says 'Allah' then it is simply a mistake that has been made, instead it should be 'All?t'.
Selam Lordfox,
Hmm I was thinking it must have been... OR it was just a small attempt to be a 'hater' of Islam and confuse/sway with minniscule subvertness... hey hum.
Thanks
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sALAAM
SORRY FOR ANY MISCONCEPTION , IN FACT NEED TO SERACH AND CROSS CHECK TRUGHT LINKS..I JUST PROVIDED OTHER ASPECTS.. quran IS cOMPLETE ..HADITH AND BIBLE ARE DISTORTIONS AND MAN-MADE.. creator is creator nad no partner associated to him. to him beLONGS eAST AND wEST, WE MUST COMMIT AND SERV, NOT wORSHIP AND PRAY... sun
sLAAM AND DONT FORGET THAT TRUTH NEED TO BE SEARCHED... we ARE NOT SUPOSED TO SEND PEACE TO DEAD PEOPLE... AND YOU KEEP sAYING pbuh TO MUHAMED...THATS IDOLATRY... sun ...KEEP FOLOWING THE aDITH AND YOULL BE A CRISTIAN SUNNI WITH SHIVA HINDU RITUALS AND PERSIAN CULTURE... cOOK IT HAS YOU WANT... FOR ME cREATOR IS ENOUGHT AND COMANDEMENTS ARE cLEAR peace peace peace peace handshake handshake sun
sALAAM TO ALL AND SORRY FOR KEYBORD TYPING..
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we ARE NOT SUPOSED TO SEND PEACE TO DEAD PEOPLE... AND YOU KEEP sAYING pbuh TO MUHAMED...THATS IDOLATRY... sun ...KEEP FOLOWING THE aDITH AND YOULL BE A CRISTIAN SUNNI WITH SHIVA HINDU RITUALS AND PERSIAN CULTURE... cOOK IT HAS YOU WANT... FOR ME cREATOR IS ENOUGHT AND COMANDEMENTS ARE cLEAR peace peace peace peace handshake handshake sun
sALAAM TO ALL AND SORRY FOR KEYBORD TYPING..
I think you should look up what idolatry means.
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sALAAM
SORRY FOR ANY MISCONCEPTION , IN FACT NEED TO SERACH AND CROSS CHECK TRUGHT LINKS..I JUST PROVIDED OTHER ASPECTS.. quran IS cOMPLETE ..HADITH AND BIBLE ARE DISTORTIONS AND MAN-MADE.. creator is creator nad no partner associated to him. to him beLONGS eAST AND wEST, WE MUST COMMIT AND SERV, NOT wORSHIP AND PRAY... sun
sLAAM AND DONT FORGET THAT TRUTH NEED TO BE SEARCHED... we ARE NOT SUPOSED TO SEND PEACE TO DEAD PEOPLE... AND YOU KEEP sAYING pbuh TO MUHAMED...THATS IDOLATRY... sun ...KEEP FOLOWING THE aDITH AND YOULL BE A CRISTIAN SUNNI WITH SHIVA HINDU RITUALS AND PERSIAN CULTURE... cOOK IT HAS YOU WANT... FOR ME cREATOR IS ENOUGHT AND COMANDEMENTS ARE cLEAR peace peace peace peace handshake handshake sun
sALAAM TO ALL AND SORRY FOR KEYBORD TYPING..
Selam,
How exactly is it idolatry by saying peace for a dead person... I'm not seeing the logic. Idolatry is the worship of an idol... a dead person to ME anyway is not an idol... would be ludicrous to think that... could you elaborate??
peace
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To be honest, I've only started saying "peace be upon him" and I said it out of respect..... idolatry??? Really? Lordfox what is your view on this |
peace
I think Nomad doesn't know what idolatry means.
Personally, I tend not to say 'peace be upon the messenger Muhammad' because Allah makes it clear in the Qu'ran that one should see all messengers as equal, saying peace each time Muhammad is mentioned is a clear preference. Secondly, as the messenger Muhammad is obviously in peace wherever he is right now, I do not really see the point of saying it.
It is like if I would say ''The sun is shining'' every time I see it in the sky.
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I think Nomad doesn't know what idolatry means.
Personally, I tend not to say 'peace be upon the messenger Muhammad' because Allah makes it clear in the Qu'ran that one should see all messengers as equal, saying peace each time Muhammad is mentioned is a clear preference. Secondly, as the messenger Muhammad is obviously in peace wherever he is right now, I do not really see the point of saying it.
It is like if I would say ''The sun is shining'' every time I see it in the sky.
If i'm truly honest I never choose to say it (only really say it around my partner who is a Sunni Muslim and because it's now become a slight habit and been incorporated to my typing on here) and to be honest I would say it for any prophet not only Muhammed as unlike most traditional muslims I'm not biased. Mum said the same thing to me xD, "they are dead already whats the point" i'm like ".... yeah... kinda what I used to think before influence ?_?".
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If i'm truly honest I never choose to say it (only really say it around my partner who is a Sunni Muslim and because it's now become a slight habit and been incorporated to my typing on here) and to be honest I would say it for any prophet not only Muhammed as unlike most traditional muslims I'm not biased. Mum said the same thing to me xD, "they are dead already whats the point" i'm like ".... yeah... kinda what I used to think before influence ?_?".
Your mum is right... what's the point?
If saying "PBUH" is considered as a 'blessing', well better send those 'blessing' to those who are still alive...But nonetheless it's a petty issue..
It's okay to say PBUH behind the name of anyone you want.. dead or alive..
No harm done and it doesn't matter anyway..Salam / Peace