Friends with Non-muslims? -_- Please help

Aryan_Warrior

So I am pretty depressed at the moment after seeing a couple of verses regarding friendship and I have done searches here and there and on this form too. So here is my problem

I had seen a couple of verses that stated we couldn't be "tawallaw" with Christians, Jews, and other non-muslims which some examples are these

"O you who believe, do not take the Jews and the Nazarenes as "awliya", for they are allies to one another; and whoever takes them as such from amongst you is one of them. God does not guide the wicked people" (551)

"O you who believe, do not take as "awliya" those who have taken your system as fun and games from among those who have been given the Scripture before you and the rejecters. And be aware of God if you are believers." (557)

"O you who believe, do not "tatawallaw" a people with whom God is angry; for they have given-up regarding the Hereafter, just like the rejecters have given-up on the people who are already in the graves." (6013)

The words that I bolded are all forms of the word "Wali" which can mean "ally", "friend", "guardian" or "advisor".

A lot of Sunni translations have made it to be "friend" which meant we couldn't be friends with non-muslims. Which I found odd as we can marry Christians and Jews yet not befriend them? o

Then there was the wonderful verse of 608-9

"God does not forbid you from those who have not fought you because of your system, nor drove you out of your homes, that you deal kindly and equitably with them. For God loves the equitable." (60

"But God does forbid you regarding those who fought you because of your system, and drove you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out. You shall not ally with them. Those who ally with them, then such are the transgressors." (609)

The first verse here states that we are not forbidden from them if they aren't fighting us because of our faith, nor driving us out of our homes and that if they do we should not be there friends anymore as well as not be there "ally".

Here wali is translated to ally as if it was translated to friend it would sound as if you are being told twice to stop being their friend in 609 as the first part of that verse already tells you. Correct me if I'm wrong please )

So here are my main questions

So I have been thinking that these all translate to ally as in if they are at war with us, we should not ally with them if 608 is to make any sense but I am unsure of this. I've seen that the FM translation uses ally except on 5814

"Have you noted those who befriended people with whom God is angry? They are now neither from you nor from them. And they deliberately swear to lies while they know!" (5814)

This scared me as they decided to translate wali as "friend" here unlike in the other places. Can anyone explain this part to me? Is that a mistake on their part? As I am friends with people who God might possibly be angry at for their sins, for their polytheism (hindus that I know), or atheism (this would include my father which I love so dearly '()

2)And then we also have

"You will not find any people who believe in God and the Last Day love those who oppose God and His messenger, even if they were their parents, or their children, or their siblings, or their tribe. For these, He decrees faith into their hearts, and supports them with Spirit from Him, and He admits them into paradises with rivers flowing beneath, wherein they will abide. God is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. These are the party of God. Most assuredly, the party of God are the winners." (5822)

And this last verse is what scares me and is one without the word "Wali" in it. My friends and father aren't hostile to me over my faith. They know my faith and such and don't try to force their own faith down my throat. Sure they may have told me at one point or another why their belief is correct in hopes that I take theirs but they didn't force it on me or anything once I rejected their words. They aren't hostile, they just wanna have a cup of coffee, go to the mall, and talk about worldly issues and stuff.

I mean there are Christian missionaries who go around telling people was Christianity is correct and Islam isn't because that is simply their belief but when with Muslims they understand and won't try to force it down them. Is it really wrong to be friends with them and have a nice cup of coffee especially since they aren't fighting me over my faith nor kicking me out of my home as 608-9 states?

Please help people cause i've been in such a sad sad daze -_-

Imanajib

I was reading the quran today and I had the same question. I wrote down the verse so my husband will translate it for me because it seems contradicting to.....

"Surely, those who believe, those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians ? whosoever believed in Allaah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they --grieve."

It seems the Quran is only contradicting in translation. Perhaps Allah was saying do not befriend those disbelievers (even those who call themselves Muslims). As for me, I understand that Allah gave scriptures and acknowledges in the Quran that they are true. Perhaps it is being said "stick to those who think alike so you will be better off"????? Allah forgive me if I am wrong in interpreting.

For if you befriend a disbeliever, you may become like them. I personally have friends of all religions, I am closer to those who believe in 1 God and they accept me, and I accept them, we are all followers of Allah.
I too would like to hear more thoughts on this and particularly from an Arabic speaking Muslim.

Zulf

I'm not arabic speaking, but I have common sense. laugh

Perhaps one can think of the matter of being ally with someone, on different levels. One can see it on the "spare time friend" level, or you can see it on a business level, or you can see it on a more strategic and far reaching level, perhaps in politics or other social arrangements. This I don't know about this distinction.

However, as far as just befriending someone... we need to think about what 'friend' means. I think it's ridiculous to think that we for example can't socialize and "mingle" with "those others". That would just create more separation, segregation, misunderstanding, us-and-them mentality and bad things.

In one's life, you interact and socialize with people on many different levels. Some levels are deep while others are not deep at all and perhaps just temporary or infrequent. If I go to the gym, I will have my gym friends... but I only meet them there and then, and it is not a very close relationship... but I will still have fun with them and chat and enjoy. I won't avoid talking to them, or hanging with them, just because they do not belong to my "religion". Same thing with neighbors. Of course you can discuss your roof extension, family, and what not, and get help with fixing the car, or perhaps you do some barbequing now and then, but it stays on that level. Again, same thing in education. You hang around with those who fit your chemistry and vibration, even though they might not believe in a creator. It's not a problem since you are not discussing divinity anyway.

Of course you will avoid anyone who displays destructive habits such as back biting, mocking, too much negativity or arrogance etc. Naturally you won't sit and talk with them. All these things are common sense to most and one can feel it without thinking what to do. I trust myself enough to choose who to socialize with and at what level and to what extent... for that I don't need any mullah to forbid me from this or that. Our hearts will know automatically.

I have a christian friend since early childhood. His wife is also a christian, missionary.... went to bible school etc. I still socialize with him and we enjoy spare time activities. We do not discuss divinity since it would probably not add to our relationship if we would only disagree on stuff. Our relationship is beyond that... it started when we didn't know about religions and faith and such... and we keep it like that.

I'm not sure how far the quranic instructions reach, as I have not researched it yet. And I guess this is a great part of your concern, but those are my 2 mundane cents on the topic.

peace

Aryan_Warrior

It seems the Quran is only contradicting in translation. Perhaps Allah was saying do not befriend those disbelievers (even those who call themselves Muslims). As for me, I understand that Allah gave scriptures and acknowledges in the Quran that they are true. Perhaps it is being said "stick to those who think alike so you will be better off"????? Allah forgive me if I am wrong in interpreting.

For if you befriend a disbeliever, you may become like them. I personally have friends of all religions, I am closer to those who believe in 1 God and they accept me, and I accept them, we are all followers of Allah.
I too would like to hear more thoughts on this and particularly from an Arabic speaking Muslim.

Well I believe that anyone who gives up their faith for disbelief cause of some friendship never had much faith to begin with cause I as a muslim for all of my life have never tried or was inclined to convert over anyways.

As for those pretending to be muslims but are disbelievers then that would be the Hypocrites, which I don't see anymore. I might see the occational atheist who might call himself a Muslim if simply talking to another muslim but isn't out to hurt them in anyways like the Hypocrites that are normally described nor do they call themselves one at all times.

Of course you will avoid anyone who displays destructive habits such as back biting, mocking, too much negativity or arrogance etc. Naturally you won't sit and talk with them. All these things are common sense to most and one can feel it without thinking what to do. I trust myself enough to choose who to socialize with and at what level and to what extent... for that I don't need any mullah to forbid me from this or that. Our hearts will know automatically.

That depends really. Being in western society, stuff like backbiting and arrogance are quite very common. I don't see the harm in being friends these people as long as they aren't destroying everything around them with it and as long as we aren't engaging in it either.

Regardless, still haven't gotten an answer to this / please help people everyone '(

608-9 are still my only verses of hope that make be think that as long as they aren't physically being hostile to me over religion and kicking me out of my home it is fine, yet I am very scared that I am wrong and that some of those other verses specifically 5822 and 5814. &

Imanajib

Go straight to the source!
Ask for Allah's guidence through prayer and ask for forgiveness if you are wrong. It states over and over again "Allah is forgiving, just, compassionate, merciful, and so on". This doesn't seem to me like a God that will send you to hell fire for not understanding -
Continue to ask forgiveness in the things you do wrong, knowing or unknowing )

Regardless, still haven't gotten an answer to this / please help people everyone '(

608-9 are still my only verses of hope that make be think that as long as they aren't physically being hostile to me over religion and kicking me out of my home it is fine, yet I am very scared that I am wrong and that some of those other verses specifically 5822 and 5814. &

Aryan_Warrior

Go straight to the source!
Ask for Allah's guidence through prayer and ask for forgiveness if you are wrong. It states over and over again "Allah is forgiving, just, compassionate, merciful, and so on". This doesn't seem to me like a God that will send you to hell fire for not understanding -
Continue to ask forgiveness in the things you do wrong, knowing or unknowing

Oh believe me I HAVE. I have done it many times and i've come to the conclusion that I either have to keep waiting or he is rather guiding me to the answer which is why I posted here.

Thus why I need some opinions to further understand.

Oh yeah i've been reading some tafsirs on 5822 and they have been stating that the "oppose" refers to physical conflict especially since it was revealed during a war, but i'm sure.

Please help everyone and may Allah bless you all

youssef4342

We should not befirend those who fight us because of our religious affiliation. Otherwise

"God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly. (60

farida

So I am pretty depressed at the moment after seeing a couple of verses regarding friendship and I have done searches here and there and on this form too. So here is my problem
.........
The words that I bolded are all forms of the word "Wali" which can mean "ally", "friend", "guardian" or "advisor".
...........Please help people cause i've been in such a sad sad daze -_-

Slaam
I think the surahs you quoted refer to people not to individual friends that if you put your trust in those people who are not from your own people you end up confused & o
Staggering pictures show how emirate went from desert backwater to the Manhattan of the Middle East in just 50 years
Dubai's unfathomably high skyscrapers, reaching into the clouds, are matched only in size by its vast, sprawling shopping malls and its residents' bulging bank balances.
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Read more http//www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2144613/Pictures-Dubai-1960s-1970s-city-fishing-settlement.html#ixzz1uylvD9VO

Aryan_Warrior

We should not befirend those who fight us because of our religious affiliation. Otherwise

"God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly. (60

Well I know that and that and 609 are the two beautiful verses that make me happy as there are no one here that picks up a sword and tries to fight us cause of our believes. My question is in regards to verses like 5822 which state we should not love those who oppose God which is quite contrast to 60-9 as 609 said we should not be friends nor ally with them if they physically attack while oppose can refer to sinply a Christian missionary who is out to spread its relgion or member of any religion who tells others that their religion is coreect and ours isn't without use of force and being still very friendly and living in harmony with you regardless of accepting their words or not. So please help

Aryan_Warrior

Slaam
I think the surahs you quoted refer to people not to individual friends that if you put your trust in those people who are not from your own people you end up confused & o
Staggering pictures show how emirate went from desert backwater to the Manhattan of the Middle East in just 50 years
Dubai's unfathomably high skyscrapers, reaching into the clouds, are matched only in size by its vast, sprawling shopping malls and its residents' bulging bank balances.
It's renowned as a playground for the rich, a place where entire communities of ex-pats enjoy the trappings a tax-free haven can .....
Read more http//www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2144613/Pictures-Dubai-1960s-1970s-city-fishing-settlement.html#ixzz1uylvD9VO

I understand and that is one theory I had in that these refer to nations who ally with each other as it stares stuff like "people" rather than "person" in 6013 and how a muslim country shouldn't ally with an opposing nation.

Also yeah that's pretty awesome how they moderized.

Regardless still quite confused in regards to 5822

farida

"You will not find any people who believe in God and the Last Day love those who oppose God and His messenger, even if they were their parents, or their children, or their siblings, or their tribe. For these, He decrees faith into their hearts, and supports them with Spirit from Him, and He admits them into paradises with rivers flowing beneath, wherein they will abide. God is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. These are the party of God. Most assuredly, the party of God are the winners." (5822)

And this last verse is what scares me and is one without the word "Wali" in it. My friends and father aren't hostile to me over my faith.

Please help people cause i've been in such a sad sad daze -_-

If they are not hostile to you over your faith it means they do not oppose God and His messenger, if they start to criticize God and His messenger in discussions with you, than I think you would not enjoy their company.
Salaam

Aryan_Warrior

If they are not hostile to you over your faith it means they do not oppose God and His messenger, if they start to criticize God and His messenger in discussions with you, than I think you would not enjoy their company.
Salaam

Well say they did it at some point but stopped after I said I didn't like it. Like I know Christians who tell me the Prophet was false and told me to go to Christianity. That is their belief but after I said no, they were cool it and we moved on.

Basically what i'm saying is that even if they go around telling people things like that, is it okay considering they aren't hostile to me and that if I don't accept they are fine with me as is?

Atheists go around all the time saying that God is fake, but they aren't being hostile to me on it. Like i've got some friends who may post some meme that involved "joking" about God over Facebook and such but by no means are they out to destroy Monotheism or anything even if they say things that aren't good about it.

Still not feeling too good on it. What do you think?

shaban

It seems our freaks dont like discussing this issue D

"O you who believe, do not take the Jews and the Nazarenes as "awliya", for they are allies to one another; and whoever takes them as such from amongst you is one of them. God does not guide the wicked people" (551)

If Allah did allow you to do it, could your stomach accept to take those close friends who reject ayats of Allah ?

I'd prefer HIV virus instead of christians and jews. at least it is not the worst creature (read 986)

peace

Aryan_Warrior

It seems our freaks dont like discussing this issue D

"O you who believe, do not take the Jews and the Nazarenes as "awliya", for they are allies to one another; and whoever takes them as such from amongst you is one of them. God does not guide the wicked people" (551)

If Allah did allow you to do it, could your stomach accept to take those close friends who reject ayats of Allah ?

I'd prefer HIV virus instead of christians and jews. at least it is not the worst creature (read 986)

peace

O_o You know it "awliya" means "allies" as in allying with them in war right? A regular Christian or Jew who lives in the west isn't gonna start a war with us. But regardless so what if they reject the Quran? Remember that Allah has split us into tribes and nations and they still are monotheists regardless of the fact and if they aren't hostile to me or starting a holy war and rather friendly and nice, what is so wrong with that?
Afterall God allows us to marry them which is MUCH closer then friendship.

Also regardless 608-9 refutes such views that you got.

Now can I get a proper answer to this thread as I already know what it means in regards to Wali being ally, but 5822 is what i'm curious about.

youssef4342

It seems our freaks dont like discussing this issue D

"O you who believe, do not take the Jews and the Nazarenes as "awliya", for they are allies to one another; and whoever takes them as such from amongst you is one of them. God does not guide the wicked people" (551)

If Allah did allow you to do it, could your stomach accept to take those close friends who reject ayats of Allah ?

I'd prefer HIV virus instead of christians and jews. at least it is not the worst creature (read 986)

peace

Sura 60 is clear upon Who we CAN and CANNOT take as allies.

Cannot 601 The enemies of God, the disbelievers in the Quran, those who oppose us and evict us from our homes = just because our belief in God
Cannot 609 Those who fight us because of our religious creed, and oppose us to try to evict us
Cannot 557 Those who take our religion mockery

CAN Those who DON'T fight us because of our religious creed, and DON'T oppose us to try to evict us from our homes.

551 is talking about being an ALLY. It is not talking about Friendship. God Almighty has cited to us from every example in the Quran (3927), and he has not failed to cite to us an example of allies. In the Next verse of 552 we see the examples of people taking allies, and this case would apply in war/conflict-like situations. It would mean not supporting unbelievers against believers (excluding cases of Justice etc). Also, We are allowed to make peace treaties (8061, and covenants 490)

5822 is talking about showing affection/loving those who oppose God.
In 4828, we see a description of being Stern with Unbelievers and compassionate with believers, However, This does not mean justice would be skewed if the case is a believer vs an unbeliever (375-6)

Friendship is not the same as being an ally and supporting unbelievers over believers.

Aryan_Warrior

Sura 60 is clear upon Who we CAN and CANNOT take as allies.

Cannot 601 The enemies of God, the disbelievers in the Quran, those who oppose us and evict us from our homes = just because our belief in God
Cannot 609 Those who fight us because of our religious creed, and oppose us to try to evict us
Cannot 557 Those who take our religion mockery

CAN Those who DON'T fight us because of our religious creed, and DON'T oppose us to try to evict us from our homes.

551 is talking about being an ALLY. It is not talking about Friendship. God Almighty has cited to us from every example in the Quran (3927), and he has not failed to cite to us an example of allies. In the Next verse of 552 we see the examples of people taking allies, and this case would apply in war/conflict-like situations. It would mean not supporting unbelievers against believers (excluding cases of Justice etc). Also, We are allowed to make peace treaties (8061, and covenants 490)

5822 is talking about showing affection/loving those who oppose God.
In 4828, we see a description of being Stern with Unbelievers and compassionate with believers, However, This does not mean justice would be skewed if the case is a believer vs an unbeliever (375-6)

Friendship is not the same as being an ally and supporting unbelievers over believers.

Well said Youssef on how ally=/=friendship. I remember the word mostly used in the Quran for friendship was khallan and the word for companion was ibuhu, which were pointed out in a previous topic i've seen on such a topic.

Also for the part where we can make allies. So considering Turkey has an alliance with the United States, it is considered fine as they aren't opposing their religion nor evicting them from their homes?

Regardless my other question to you is about 5822. You said it's talking about love and compassion to those who oppose God, but the question is what does oppose refer to? like naturally we are allowed to love other monotheists in regards to marriage afterall but they naturally "oppose" as in reject our beliefs and encourage others to join their own without any warfare or hostility. I've seen tafsirs say that oppose refers to hostile warfare which seems to make sense.

Thanks )

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

Peace,

557 O you who acknowledge, do not take as allies those who have taken your system as fun and games from among those who have been given the book before you and the ingrates. Be aware of God if you are those who acknowledge.

Also, please read this

Edip-Layth - End Note 14 (551)

Verse 557 provides the characteristics of the people of the book, whom we are instructed not to ally ourselves with. Muslims should not ally themselves with those who insult their values or promote hatred against them. Obviously, this instruction is in the context of religious conflict; not in the context of social, personal, or financial relationship. There are righteous people among the people of the book (3113; 3199 569). Eating their food or marriage with them is permitted (55). Verses 557 and 607-9 are among the verses that provide us with basic principles in dealing with others.