Re: Ramadan
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Dear friends, brothers and sisters
As you know Ramadan is getting close and tis the season to be arguing with family..
Most of us agree that Allah has left the purpose of fasting open to let his children better themselves in whatever they need to improve. There is not much "guidance" given in the Quran except it will help in being more righteous and that we can never imagine all the benefits.
For a lot of people fasting is a reminder that whatever little or much we possess we should never take it for granted, the hunger and thirst during the day acting like the message....For others it is about reaching out and giving a hand to those in need, and for some it is a way to focus on praying and trying to understand the Quran.....For a few it is all of the above..Anyways, I think I am not alone in the QA community when I state that if one wants to change his or her life and uses the month of Ramadan as a "boost" to really get going he or she should really go for it. I talked to a sunni about this today and I gave him a hypothetical alcoholic. What would be more pleasing in the eyes of Allah, that the alcoholic admits to his problem and uses Ramadan to kick the habit OR that he doesnt eat during the day (for you who are not experienced in the field of alcoholism keeping fast and detoxication on the same time is virtually impossible, the detox takes up all of your mental and physical stamina)........The answer I got was "There are eleven more months to kick the habit, why should he do it during Ramadan? Besides there are no alcoholic muslims."
Sigh..........That brings me to what I need help with. Bruce Springsteen is coming to town and I managed to get tickets. I know a person who would just looove to take this chance of a lifetime and go with me......But he doesnt want to go because it is during Ramadan and he doesnt want to make Allah angry.....I completely respect my friend but I know it in my heart that if he does realize that Allah wouldnt be angry and Bruce has come and gone already he would regret it for the rest of his life.
Can somebody please help me explain to my friend why it is OK to enjoy a concert during Ramadan after sunset. I tried to find some liberal sunni homepages but all I came up with was that music is not allowed, Ramadan or not.
BTW, there are no articles on FM about Ramadan, why is that so?
That is not the purpose of Ramadan, at least not the way you put it
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Ok my little friend, what is the purpose? Back it up with the Quran please.
Sorry the Quran has no complete translations that's any good at the moment.
Make a little experiment and see if it works for yourself. In the hottest month fast for 40 days while asking a question in your mind -
Sorry the Quran has no complete translations that's any good at the moment.
Make a little experiment and see if it works for yourself. In the hottest month fast for 40 days while asking a question in your mindAnd seeing as you can't read Arabic then how do you know anything that the Quran says or teaches? Likewise, with your admitted lack of knowledge and understanding of Quran, how can you repeatedly claim this is wrong, that is wrong, this doesn't mean that, etc?
Where do you get your Quranic guidance when you don't have a book you can read or follow?
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And seeing as you can't read Arabic then how do you know anything that the Quran says or teaches? Likewise, with your admitted lack of knowledge and understanding of Quran, how can you repeatedly claim this is wrong, that is wrong, this doesn't mean that, etc?
Where do you get your Quranic guidance when you don't have a book you can read or follow?
Because they're stupid and nonsense things. If they were really true, it means Muhammad was a liar. I don't believe that either
I can understand the Quran, but with the right translations of course, and we still have a shadow of the accurate meaning by bad translations
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Because they're stupid and nonsense things. If they were really true, it means Muhammad was a liar. I don't believe that either
Who decides what is stupid or nonsense? What criteria do you personally use, besides simple personal opinion/bias, to determine if something you read from the Quran is stupid or nonsensical?
Please give some examples from the Quran of what you believe would make Muhammad a liar if the Arabic means what it says it means?
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Who decides what is stupid or nonsense? What criteria do you personally use, besides simple personal opinion/bias, to determine if something you read from the Quran is stupid or nonsensical?
Please give some examples from the Quran of what you believe would make Muhammad a liar if the Arabic means what it says it means?
If the arabic? How do you know what that arabic meant on Muhammad's time? To me it is stupid and nonsense, hence I won't believe in it, so stop annoying me with your jealous bullshit, I don't care where you blindly put your faith in but don't try to shove it down my throat.
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If the arabic? How do you know what that arabic meant on Muhammad's time? To me it is stupid and nonsense, hence I won't believe in it, so stop annoying me with your jealous bullshit, I don't care where you blindly put your faith in but don't try to shove it down my throat.
Alrighty then, just so I got this straight, no translations can be trusted and the Arabic language's definitions and roots cannot be trusted?
Well then, it would seem you would be left with a certain level of agnosticism where we are unable to know with any certainty anything about anything, concerning the message/teachings of the Quran. Well good luck with that, but it's really strange that you do roam these boards declaring everyone is wrong about their understandings and applications of the Quran. It's an interesting intellectual contradiction to say the least. sun
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Alrighty then, just so I got this straight, no translations can be trusted and the Arabic language's definitions and roots cannot be trusted?
Well then, it would seem you would be left with a certain level of agnosticism where we are unable to know with any certainty anything about anything, concerning the message/teachings of the Quran. Well good luck with that, but it's really strange that you do roam these boards declaring everyone is wrong about their understandings and applications of the Quran. It's an interesting intellectual contradiction to say the least. sun
To me it is wrong, it's based on my reasoning. Everyone bases things on their reasoning, you do too.
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Peace Kaiokenred.
Welcome back.
Regarding " based on your reasoning", I am afraid I will not be following your reasoning. I will be committing "idol worship" if I did follow, that is according to the last proven scripture.
Peace again -
To me it is stupid and nonsense, hence I won't believe in it, so stop annoying me with your jealous bullshit, I don't care where you blindly put your faith in but don't try to shove it down my throat.
People are being patient with you but it seems that isn't good enough.Your reasoning is flawed you have no idea what the arabic in the quran stands for other than what people tell you it means, you aren't interested in learning/knowing what the arabic stands for by itself because you can't trust the lexicons or the language as it stands...the only thing that 'works' for you is a translation from your current favourite that you can trust apparently based on whatever criteria for trust you have (which is literally defined as 'not stupid or nonsense'. Where do these translators get their understandings from? Apparently not lexicons or the arabic since those are bullshit. So, we have thin air as the lead contender. Wasn't there something said about stupid and nonsense?
Since this is your stand, don't go around disrupting discussions and conversations on different threads with one liners that you can't defend or argue (without looking like you have no idea what you're talking about) and/or get tetchy when questioned.
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Something we should always remember and take heed of.
Did you not see that God has committed in your service everything in the heavens and the earth, and has showered you with His blessings, both apparent and hidden? Yet from the people are some who argue about God without knowledge, without guidance, and without an enlightening scripture. (3120)
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People are being patient with you but it seems that isn't good enough.
Your reasoning is flawed you have no idea what the arabic in the quran stands for other than what people tell you it means, you aren't interested in learning/knowing what the arabic stands for by itself because you can't trust the lexicons or the language as it stands...the only thing that 'works' for you is a translation from your current favourite that you can trust apparently based on whatever criteria for trust you have (which is literally defined as 'not stupid or nonsense'. Where do these translators get their understandings from? Apparently not lexicons or the arabic since those are bullshit. So, we have thin air as the lead contender. Wasn't there something said about stupid and nonsense?
Since this is your stand, don't go around disrupting discussions and conversations on different threads with one liners that you can't defend or argue (without looking like you have no idea what you're talking about) and/or get tetchy when questioned.
There's no flaw on my logic. I believe translations totally free from religious inventions of hadith and based on ancient lexicons.
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Something we should always remember and take heed of.
Did you not see that God has committed in your service everything in the heavens and the earth, and has showered you with His blessings, both apparent and hidden? Yet from the people are some who argue about God without knowledge, without guidance, and without an enlightening scripture. (3120)
God? What do you mean God? The verse clearly says Allah, who is not god. Allah makes it clear on Quran using the arabic that was used in Muhammad's time that Allah is not a god
Surah 112 1
You must skilfully think and then acknowledge by words and actions. The One who is the only One, is not illah (God).
Surah 112 2
The One who is everlasting; the creator of everything and to whose unity everything gives testimony; is the One who is not illah (god)
Surah 112 3
Neither the One begets a God, nor shall one be begotten from the One.
Surah 112 4
Nor has the One any likeness to any god; the One and Only having absolutely no resemblance or likeness to anybody or anything.
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Peace Kaiokenred.
Welcome back.
Regarding " based on your reasoning", I am afraid I will not be following your reasoning. I will be committing "idol worship" if I did follow, that is according to the last proven scripture.
Peace againrotfl
226 Behold, Allah does not shy away from citing any kind of allegory, even of a mosquito or beyond. Those who attain belief by way of reason appreciate the allegories and know that therein is contained some teaching of the Truth from their Lord. On the other hand, those who have chosen to disbelieve, try to ridicule, saying, "What could Allah mean to teach by this similitude?" Thus His Law of Guidance lets go astray many and shows the lighted Road too many. But He never lets go astray any except those who drift away from Reason.
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There's no flaw on my logic. I believe translations totally free from religious inventions of hadith and based on ancient lexicons.
Like 226 Behold, Allah does not shy away from citing any kind of allegory, even of a mosquito or beyond. Those who attain belief by way of reason appreciate the allegories and know that therein is contained some teaching of the Truth from their Lord. On the other hand, those who have chosen to disbelieve, try to ridicule, saying, "What could Allah mean to teach by this similitude?" Thus His Law of Guidance lets go astray many and shows the lighted Road too many. But He never lets go astray any except those who drift away from Reason. (SOL translation)
Yeah, it's mostly free of and with the arabic used in the quran certainly. If this is what you're going to be bringing forth as 'evidence' for a better translation, I suggest you get ready to defend why by actually learning to read the arabic present in the quran for starters. If you can't defend it and use SOL as a shield, I suggest you stop posting and just stick to reading the forum. If you want to learn, create and post on your own threads to ask questions and/or learn the basics. Disrupting existing threads consistently, imparting nothing of value and veering it off course is not on.
Emil, the thread was already split before you posted.
Previous discussion here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603853.0
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Like 226 Behold, Allah does not shy away from citing any kind of allegory, even of a mosquito or beyond. Those who attain belief by way of reason appreciate the allegories and know that therein is contained some teaching of the Truth from their Lord. On the other hand, those who have chosen to disbelieve, try to ridicule, saying, "What could Allah mean to teach by this similitude?" Thus His Law of Guidance lets go astray many and shows the lighted Road too many. But He never lets go astray any except those who drift away from Reason. (SOL translation)
Yeah, it's mostly free of and with the arabic used in the quran certainly. If this is what you're going to be bringing forth as 'evidence' for a better translation, I suggest you get ready to defend why by actually learning to read the arabic present in the quran for starters. If you can't defend it and use SOL as a shield, I suggest you stop posting and just stick to reading the forum. If you want to learn, create and post on your own threads to ask questions and/or learn the basics. Disrupting existing threads consistently, imparting nothing of value and veering it off course is not on.
Emil, the thread was already split before you posted.
Previous discussion here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603853.0
How do you expect a nearly 15 year old boy to learn a language that was used 14 centuries ago? You must be kidding. Reason is all I have, and without it it would be blind faith.
If SOL's translations are wrong, how come with all the discussions on free minds it was never disproved?
If you think it's wrong, contact Badar Kanwar and discuss it because I'm sure he loves the truth and wouldn't defend his translations just because if it actually is bad. -
Two things. Your age is not a barrier for learning, in fact it is conducive to information absorption. Secondly, it's not language as it was used 14 centuries ago. The roots/meanings are still used today, given all the study tools we have online it isn't hard to determine what word stands for what, the meanings and/or their variants. Grammar checks could be done online as well and the forum used as a possible resource to help determine accuracy using your reason. All of us have a responsibility to know what we are promoting and/or believing and why/how. This is the opposite of blind faith.
Taking people at their word for the translations they use not knowing what the words/language stands for and refusing to verify/confirm based on flawed assumptions is blind faith. This is what you've been claiming as 'sound logic'. If you can't see/understand this, your issues go beyond being an almost 15 year old with an attitude.
after edit
There has been plenty of discussion on SOL's translations on the forum, do a search. What is your definition of disproved? People have pointed out flaws but that isn't enough? The translations must be rescinded and an apology proffered only then would it be disproved? You must be kidding. If I think it's wrong, at least I can figure out why. Which is something that you can't do and must rely on others to determine what is accurate and inaccurate.
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Two things. Your age is not a barrier for learning, in fact it is conducive to information absorption. Secondly, it's not language as it was used 14 centuries ago. The roots/meanings are still used today, given all the study tools we have online it isn't hard to determine what word stands for what, the meanings and/or their variants. Grammar checks could be done online as well and the forum used as a possible resource to help determine accuracy using your reason. All of us have a responsibility to know what we are promoting and/or believing and why/how. This is the opposite of blind faith.
Taking people at their word for the translations they use not knowing what the words/language stands for and refusing to verify/confirm based on flawed assumptions is blind faith. This is what you've been claiming as 'sound logic'. If you can't see/understand this, your issues go beyond being an almost 15 year old with an attitude.
So I am supposed to believe that a male personification created the world and controls it from the outside otherwise I have blind faith, got it.
And yes my age is a barrier for learning. Who is gonna teach that to me? Where do I get the time to learn it? This is a flawed assumption, as you know nothing about me.
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No you're not supposed to believe anything of the sort. Once again, you show lack of reason for which I'm loathe to blame your age because I have known almost 15 year olds that are different.
Once again, your age isn't a barrier, the barriers you're putting up against learning in your mind are. Where do you get the time to learn God is not god? You apparently know nothing about flawed assumptions either.