هُودًاHUDAN= JEWS? HUD?
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Salaam i posted this here in the generall to know opinion on how a word can adapt to these same word for total diferent meaning
(21353) hdan Jews
(214010) hdan JewsHUD
(7654) hdan Hud
(11504) hdan Hudand Also want to know why Hudan in this way means guidance..
1Hudan can probabbly mean the people of HUD and not jews?.. im not talking about (Banii is'rla )
2HUd be a jew??.. dont think so, Ibrahim ismael isacc, 12 tribes were not Hudan nor Nasara2140
2140 Am taqooloona inna ibraheema wa-ismaAAeelawa-ishaqa wayaAAqooba waal-asbata kanoohoodan aw nasara qul aantum aAAlamu ami Allahuwaman athlamu mimman katama shahadatanAAindahu mina Allahi wama Allahu bighafilinAAamma taAAmaloona
2140"Muhsin Khan
Or say you that Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaque, Ya'qub and Al-Asbat, were Hudan or NAsara? Say, "Do you know better or does Allah ? And who is more unjust than he who conceals the testimony he has from Allah? And Allah is not unaware of what you do."Its a mix of Quran and History Subjects so i put in generall Issues, if find other suitble place to replace it feel confortable. And i didnt seen any post on this issue in Forum.
Hope someone could have a free-mind O0to to clarify this misconception if Creator give us Permission to it sun
Salaam/Peace/PAz
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Salam Friend ,
i saw this topic and didn't want it to go without commenting
Yes , you'r right as there is differences between the words above , and yes there is many wrong translation / misconception and generalizing in word/ topic like this , let me tell what i know about this
First there was a mixing between the word "Al-yahud " and " Aladina Hadou " they are both been translated to English as the Jews/ Jewish , both name are having the same 2nd root "H.D " , when the 2nd root become third root by adding one of the moving / vowel letter witch are only tree movement in the Arabic tongue in my searching witch i am contradicting the grammar of the Abbasid era , the tree vowel are " yi / a / wo " when we add one of this moving / vowel letter between consonant the meaning of the 2nd root verb will change accordingly to the movement / sound given to it as the Arabic letter vowels and constant has meaning / sound in it self , but you will always find the connection between 3td , 4th , 5th , 6th root verb and the nouns taking from it and the original 2nd root verb , and when we swap the consonant of the 2nd root verb we got a different meaning and in many cases when we swap consonant in 2nd and 3th root verb we got the exact opposite of the meaning of the opposing root.
i'll post some topics about this soon.** the word "Hud " in
(7654) hdan Hud
(11504) hdan Hud
"Hud " in this two verse is a proper name , a name of a prophet called "Hud" , and just to mention , there is no "tanouin / nu-nation" in the Claire Arabic tongue , http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunation , the "tanouin / nu-nation" is a fabrication done at the time of Abbasid dynasty to twist and deform the Clair tongue , this is part of what is known as "al-talhin /prosody " http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosody_(linguistics)so a word like (7654) hdan Hud is to be simply pronounced (7654) hda Huda without "tanouin / nu-nation" without "al-talhin /prosody " without adding an "N " in the end
Arabic clair tongue is a phonetic tongue what we see is what hear is what we write , for exemple the word (7654) hdan Hud in the quran there is no letter / constant "N " at the end of " hda Hud " there is only the vowel/ movement " A "
** "Al-yahud" are definitely not " Aladina Hadou " , and in the Quran they are mentioned differently
1 . " Aladina Hadou "
7155 And Moses selected from his people seventy men for Our appointed time; so when the earthquake seized them, he said "My Rabbi / Lord, if You wished You could have destroyed them before this, and me as well. Will you destroy us for what the foolish among us have done? It is all Your test, You misguide with it whom You please and You guide with it whom You please. You are our Supporter, so forgive us and have mercy on us; You are the Best Forgiver."
7156 "And decree for us good in this world, and in the Hereafter; we have been "Houdna guided" towards You." He said "My punishment, I afflict with it whom I chose, and My mercy encompasses all things. I will thus decree it for those who are aware and contribute towards purification, and those who believe in Our revelations."544 We have sent down the Torah, in it is a guidance and a light; the prophets who have submitted judged with it for those who are " Aladina Hadou " , and the Devotees, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of the Book of Allah , and they were witness over. So do not be concerned with the people but be concerned with Me; and do not purchase with My revelations a cheap price. And whoever does not judge with what Allah has sent down, then these are the rejecters.
In the original English translation found in this site of the above verse 544 the " Aladina Hadou " was translated as Jewish , now the problem is that the Jews is been used to name two different people / community , i personally don't know what the word Jews come from first but what i am sure about is that there was a big generalizing in that matter and naming both " Aladina Hadou " and "Al-yahud " with the same name in English and also in Arabic explanations and hadiths books / literature etc is a misleading thing.
who are they the people named " Aladina Hadou "
First they are from "bani Isreal "
7155 And Moses selected from his people seventy men for Our appointed time; so when the earthquake seized them, he said "My Rabb/ Lord, if You wished You could have destroyed them before this, and me as well. Will you destroy us for what the foolish among us have done? It is all Your test, You misguide with it whom You please and You guide with it whom You please. You are our Supporter, so forgive us and have mercy on us; You are the Best Forgiver."
7156 "And decree for us good in this world, and in the Hereafter; we have been "guided/Houdna" towards You." He said "My punishment, I afflict with it whom I chose, and My mercy encompasses all things. I will thus decree it for those who are aware and contribute towards purification, and those who believe in Our revelations."My understanding is that at the time of the prophet Muhammad ( Salam be upon him) there was a community that is the rest of the comunity that was with Moses , they are named " Aladina Hadou " because they said in the verse above "guided/Hodna" towards You."
and " Aladina Hadou " are part of "the people of the book " and let me mention here that there is two categories "the people of the book " and "the people who received the book " the first ones are the ordinary people and the second ones are the minority that judge with the book they are priest , devotees , the Quran makes a very precise difference between these two as well , when the Quran want to point to the people who hold and judge with the book he says" "O the people who received the book " , and when he direct the speech generally including ordinary people / the rest of the community he says " O the people of the book "
exemple447 O you who have received the Book, believe in what We have sent down authenticating what is with you, before We cast down faces and turn them on their backs or curse them as the people of the Sabbath were cursed. And the will of God is always done.
3187 And Allah took the covenant of those who received the Book "You will make it clear to the people and not conceal it." But they placed it behind their backs and purchased with it a cheap price. Miserable indeed is what they have purchased.
- "Al-yahud"
The word " Huda " mentioned in 2140 and 2135 and 211 is pointing to a proper name of a community they are the same people called "Al-Yahud " mentioned in verses 2113 / 2120 /518 /551/564/581/930 ; most likely in my understanding they are one of the twelve tribe that the Quran mentioned that was with Moses , they are also from "Bani Israel " they are the from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe_of_Judah
7159 And from among the people of Moses are a nation who guide with the truth and with it they become just.
7160 And We separated them into twelve patriarch nations;They are in my opinion the ones that the northern kingdom of Israel was named by their name Tribe of Judah / Kingdom of Judah
i am not declaring that what is in Wikipedia as a truth but just for comparative studies, the most importan things that the "Al-yahud" was always mentioned as enemy for the believers of the Quran , because simply "Al-yahud" they used to have their corrupted system / doctrine and the other most important thing is that "Al-yahud" were the rejectors among " the people of the book " they reject the new book / Quransorry for not posting it in one thread
...to be continued -
- "Al-yahud "
the The word " Huda " mentioned in 2140 and 2135 and 211 is the same as "Al-yahud " mentioned in 2113 / 2120 /518 /551/564/581/930
The difference is the "A.L " being taked off from " Huda " , according to the context of the speech and grammatical tense , the "A.L " is being known as "lam attaarif the definite article" http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-
an example to see some words similar to this word " Huda " that has the "A.L " of the definite taked off depending to the context of the speech / tense367 Abraham was neither a" Yahudy nor a Nasrany ", but he was a straight " muslim " he was not of the polytheists.
" Yahudy in this verse is the same word " Huda " mentioned in 2140 and 2135 and 211 , look at 2140
2140 "Or do you say that Abrahim and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs were " Hud " or Nassar?" Say "Are you more knowledgeable or is Allah ?" Who is more wicked than the one who conceals a testimony with him from Allah ? Allah is not unaware of what you do.
this verse talk about Abrahim as not being neither a " Hud " or Nassar when that statement was mentioned too , link this verse 2140 to the verse 367
367 Abraham was neither a" Yahudy nor a Nasrany ", but he was a straight " muslim " he was not of the polytheists.
the " Huda " " mentioned in 2140 and 2135 and 211 , is the same word Yahudy mentioned in 2113 / 2120 /518 /551/564/581/930 and is the same word mentioned in 367 and this verse 367 is the shining proof of that .
Look at also to the word " muslim " in 367 , its also without "A.L " ( the definite) and its also having " " the vowel/movement and this is simply according to the speech context / grammar tense.
and also the letter voyel/ movement " " that is at the end of the word " Huda " is just added according to the Arabic Tongue grammar / Syntax , mean the place of the word in the phrase and the nature of the sentence is it nominal or verbal , grammatical tense etc. , The " " you will find it in many names and words according to the context of the speech , example
the word (765) "hda Huda " and (1150) "hda Huda " the name of this prophet is Hud (PBUH) the " " is added , look at the verses 1153 , 11 60 ; 1189 ; 26124 , its written without " "1153 They said "O Hud, you have not come to us with any proof, nor will we leave our "lihatana" based on what you say. We will not believe in you."
( again for the matter of Arabic tongue grammar and syntax we should be careful because if you look at this studies according to the books developed during the Abbasid dynasty you will find many differences , and you will think that its one of two wither the Quran grammar / syntax is wrong or the rules that was set at that time Abbasid lexicographers are between???? )
in my understanding the The word " Huda " mentioned in 2140 and 2135 and 211 mean the system / beliefs / doctrine itself and when the "A.L " added to it becoming "Al-yahud " mentioned in 2113 / 2120 /518 /551/564/581/930 mean the proper name of this people holding that system / beliefs / doctrine / law , they were from the tribe of Yahuda and by the time they corrupted the true system of Allah as they were too among the people of the book , and the corrupted system take their name and become a system / beliefs / doctrine / law and if anybody followed it become a "Huda " not because he is from the tribe / blood but because of the same system / beliefs / doctrine / law , this is why they said in verse 2135 become "Huda " and you will be guided mean follow our system , and they were arguing that Abrahim was a "Huda " mean he was following their system
And as for your question and Also want to know why Hudan in this way means guidance.. ?
The word "Huda / guidance " is also from the same 2nd root verb "H.D " but what i will say here is against the readings / recitation that was settled up later after the death of the prophet http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qira%27at and against Abu al-Aswad al-Du'ali who was first to place dots on Arabic letters http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_al-Aswad_al-Du%27ali
The word "Huda / guidance " is simply need to be pronounced "Hdy / guidance " with no vowel / movement between "H and D "
simply because there is no vowel / movement "/ / or / yi/ or / wo " between them , the only three vowel / movement that exist in the Arabic tongue
in this word "Hdy / guidance " there is only one vowel / movement / yi/ at the end of the word so we follow the movement and we pronounce it HdyAs the form of this word being different from of the word we've seen before mean it has different meaning
As you notice i am writing the Arabic letters constants and vowels without using the nomination they were given to them , saying for exemple to "A " alef or "L " lam or " M " mem etc because simply its a fabrication to hide the fact and concept that the Arabic letters has meaning by itself by its sound , every sound has a physical meaning.
it has no sens whatsoever to name the sound "A " as alef or "L " as lam , simply no sens
I'll come back in details about this topic in a separate post inch Allah. - "Al-yahud "
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sALAAM brother
Thank you very much for youre reply and consistent explanation.. ill be waiting for future posts.. InshAllah sun
No much to add because im a very beginner in Arabyk languege so i cant say its right or wrong but, anyway seems a nice explanation of the words/aplication
Salaam and Shukran again peace handshake -
sALAAM brother
Thank you very much for youre reply and consistent explanation.. ill be waiting for future posts.. InshAllah sun
No much to add because im a very beginner in Arabyk languege so i cant say its right or wrong but, anyway seems a nice explanation of the words/aplication
Salaam and Shukran again peace handshakeYou are very welcome handshake
here is another example for the same case / grammar in verses
(7654) hood
(11504) hoodHis name is Hood (PBUH) and with the contest of speech / grammar tense the word / his name become in (7654) and (11504) Hood with the vowel/ mouvement " " at the end .
The exemple is the word Loot (PBUH) example
Pickthall (26160) The folk of Loot denied the messengers (of Allah),
(261601)
kadabat
Denied,
(261602)
qawm
(the) people
(261603)
loo
(of) Loot,
(261604)
l-mur'saln
the Messengers.in the verse above the word Loot don't have the vowel/ mouvement " " same as in the verses 1170 / 1174 / 1181 / 1189 /1559 / 1561 / 2243 / 26161/ 26167/ 2756/ 2926 / 3813 / 5013/ 5433 / 5434 / 6610
in other verse the word Loot has the vowel/ mouvement " " because of the the contest of speech / grammar tense , same as in the verses 1177 / 2932 / 2933 / 37/133 Loot become Loot
(1177 ) And when Our messengers came unto Loot, he was distressed and knew not how to protect them. He said This is a distressful day.
(11771)
walamm
And when(11772)
jat
came(11773)
rusulun
Our messengers(11774)
loo
(to) Lot,
(11775)
sa
he was distressed(11776)
bihim
for them(11777)
waqa
and felt straitened(1177
bihim
for them(11779)
dara
(and) uneasy,
and said(117711)
hd
"This(117712)
yawm
(is) a day
ab
distressful."i got the English translation from http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=11&verse=77#(11771) and i made the changement according to what i think is wright