Is hadith false??? Please help me understand
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fftopicPeople hi, I am someone who was born in egypt and was raised to be a sunni, I beheld people practicing islam I was never really decidedly muslim my self, I suffered from homosexuality, and longed for answer about what the heck am I, and why am I like this...I found some answers, and I am now sure that it is a psychological problem, and I know what exactly went wrong, and that made me feel islam and the holy books were definitley right then, because it said that homosexuality is bad even though western science would have you say its OK TO BE GAY...sigh..politics...
NOW obviously that sounds uncomfortable for any muslim, or religious person...I can read the Qur'an and feel its truth...but for hadiths....
I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!! I can't understand why was Bukhari entrusted with such faith, and his dream was unquestionable...the whole history behind hadith makes me feel so conflicted and feel like...does everyone I know really have it wrong??? am I the heathens and truth twisters the Qur'an mentions I have always grewn to not trust my judgment due to my homosexuality it confused everything....
I am trying so hard to believe in hadith, but I just can't....I had my struggles with Islam but I realised its cause of muslims them selves, I felt whatever they are I don't want to be like them...when I read the Qur'an I felt it has nothing to do with those muslims...or maybe!!! ITS my perception playing tricks on me just like homosexuality....
I just don't understand why are there judgments in hadith not mentioned in the Qur'an...when they can be quiet specific, and the Qur'an can be VERY detailed about certain aspects.....why would God not mention it in the Qur'an...
On the other hand, he does say obey him and his messenger...so I just don't know...
But what makes Bukhari infaliable to mistakes...why are those not directly quoted from the prophet...why is there a more than 2 involved in each hadith....100 year at least if not 200 after his death?...Really....that is logical?? how...doctors engineers, people who live in different countries....how can they all be wrong.......I had a friend who dreamt of the prophet muhammad too...did he??? just like bukhari...
Guys...I am going crazy....I am so sick of feeling I am never going to be righteous and that I am always corrupted to the core....
Also what do you guys think about artists in regards to islam...visual that is...I always wanted to pursue something like that...but I always assumed since the prophet prohibited drawing certain things, that its probably my vile homosexual 'creative' side that drives me to that...but I feel so miserable...I can't trust my instincts at all...I'd rather shutdown like computers and be a black screen...if suicide did that it wouldave been great....
I guess the word is...HELP...
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offtopiceople hi, I am someone who was born in egypt and was raised to be a sunni, I beheld people practicing islam I was never really decidedly muslim my self, I suffered from homosexuality, and longed for answer about what the heck am I, and why am I like this...I found some answers, and I am now sure that it is a psychological problem, and I know what exactly went wrong, and that made me feel islam and the holy books were definitley right then, because it said that homosexuality is bad even though western science would have you say its OK TO BE GAY...sigh..politics...
NOW obviously that sounds uncomfortable for any muslim, or religious person...I can read the Qur'an and feel its truth...but for hadiths....
I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!! I can't understand why was Bukhari entrusted with such faith, and his dream was unquestionable...the whole history behind hadith makes me feel so conflicted and feel like...does everyone I know really have it wrong??? am I the heathens and truth twisters the Qur'an mentions I have always grewn to not trust my judgment due to my homosexuality it confused everything....
I am trying so hard to believe in hadith, but I just can't....I had my struggles with Islam but I realised its cause of muslims them selves, I felt whatever they are I don't want to be like them...when I read the Qur'an I felt it has nothing to do with those muslims...or maybe!!! ITS my perception playing tricks on me just like homosexuality....
I just don't understand why are there judgments in hadith not mentioned in the Qur'an...when they can be quiet specific, and the Qur'an can be VERY detailed about certain aspects.....why would God not mention it in the Qur'an...
On the other hand, he does say obey him and his messenger...so I just don't know...
But what makes Bukhari infaliable to mistakes...why are those not directly quoted from the prophet...why is there a more than 2 involved in each hadith....100 year at least if not 200 after his death?...Really....that is logical?? how...doctors engineers, people who live in different countries....how can they all be wrong.......I had a friend who dreamt of the prophet muhammad too...did he??? just like bukhari...
Guys...I am going crazy....I am so sick of feeling I am never going to be righteous and that I am always corrupted to the core....
Also what do you guys think about artists in regards to islam...visual that is...I always wanted to pursue something like that...but I always assumed since the prophet prohibited drawing certain things, that its probably my vile homosexual 'creative' side that drives me to that...but I feel so miserable...I can't trust my instincts at all...I'd rather shutdown like computers and be a black screen...if suicide did that it wouldave been great....
I guess the word is...HELP...
How were your views about homosexuality shaped? How did you come to the conclusion that it was bad?
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Peace be upon you. I am quite new here, but I will still share with you my insights.
Yes, the Qur'an says "Obey Allah and obey the messenger." But interestingly, it does not say "Obey Allah and Obey Muhammad". In fact, his name is only mentioned 4 times in the Qur'an.
And Aaron had already told them before, "O my people, you are only being tested by it, and indeed, your Lord is the Most Merciful, so follow me and obey my order." (2009)
We all know the story of Moses. In this ayah, in the absence of Moses, Aaron says "obey me". Does that mean people have to follow the way he eats, sleep and drink? Does it even make sense to you? Loads of other prophets/messengers said obey me. Not only muhammad. Does that mean We obey their eating, sleeping techniques as well?
And confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me. (350)
Here the prophet of bani israel also tells his people obey him. Means his hadith? His sunnah? NO!
Do you think God sent messengers to teach people how to eat, sleep, drink, pee, etc?
There are doctors, engineers, scientists and many intelligent people in other religions too (like Hinduism). Despite the many contradictions and logical fallacies in their religions, they still follow it. Blindly. They do not question what needs to be questioned. Likewise, in the "Muslim" world, there are doctors, lawyers, etc who SOMEHOW are blindly following the hadiths. They are convinced that these"religious" matters must be left to the Imams and Sheikhs. Some are even scholar-worshippers. These scholars somehow become the intermediaries between them and God. Anyways, the Qur'an says not to follow the majority, as they are in the wrong path.
Allah says, "If you obey the MAJORITY of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of Allah. They follow only conjecture; they only guess." (6116)
Allah says, "So many proofs in the heavens and the earth are given to them, but they pass by them, heedlessly! The MAJORITY of those who believe in Allah do not do so without committing idol worship." (12106)
Al-Baqarah - Allah says, "Is it not (the case) that every time they make a covenant, some party among them throw it aside? Nay! the truth is MOST of them believe not. (Al-Baqarah 2100)
Bukhari, Taymiyyah, Muslim, etc are like Paul, John, etc of today's christianity. They all have inserted things into God's way.
The Quran asks us not to accept anything without verifying it first, no matter how much pious a source it may come from, when it says
"Do not pursue that whereof you have no knowledge. Verily, the hearing and sight, and the heart, each of these will be asked." (1736)Whereas hadiths say, if you use common sense, youre gonna end up in Hell. Or if you have doubts about the "religion", its from iblees.
Bro, please take a step back, re-examine everything and analyse for yourself. We will help you.
Please read this book, it is published online for free.
http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/
I am sure this book will be able to break your mental chains! All the best! I ask God to guide you towards His wisdom, and to give you all the strength you need, and give you peace!
P.S. Your friend saw Muhammad? Your friend dreamt about someone who came more than 1000 years ago? Lol I am sure its not the Messenger... maybe Muhammad Ali P
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I like to add that the hadiths are NOT the sayings of the prophet! They are the sayings of people like Abu Huraira, Kuraib, Abbas bin Tamim... Have you asked any hadith follower who these people are and how can they be so sure that none of them were the enemies of the prophet that God mentions in the Koran? God says to obey the messenger and not take the words of these people.
Bear in mind that Satan's job is to divert you from God, tying you up in knots and creating confusion. One way Satan does his job best is to mix truth with falsehood. A lie that is told and believed by many and passed onto generations still remains a lie. More people believe Jesus is the son of God, does that mean it is the truth?
God has given us the free will to decide for ourselves how to live our lives. how do you want to live your life and how you want to depart this world? Do you want to focus on God and doing good deeds striving to be a better person - being thoughtful, kind, giving, trusting, loving, joyful, respectful, forgiving, patient....? living a moral, honorable life? a purposeful and meaningful life?
Listen to God and free your mind of clutter or listen to people? -
Shalom aleikhem my friend,
Welcome to the forum. )
offtopicPeople hi, I am someone who was born in egypt and was raised to be a sunni, I beheld people practicing islam I was never really decidedly muslim my self, I suffered from homosexuality, and longed for answer about what the heck am I, and why am I like this...I found some answers, and I am now sure that it is a psychological problem, and I know what exactly went wrong, and that made me feel islam and the holy books were definitley right then, because it said that homosexuality is bad even though western science would have you say its OK TO BE GAY...sigh..politics...
I am of the opinion that homosexuality is detrimental to our progress as a species. However, this is not to say that you being homosexual retards our civilization. I just find it unproductive. But do not give it much of my time since the world has much more bigger and real problems. Millions are suffering simply because they cant access fresh water. Many children die of hunger. Millions of people around the world do not have access to health care system. We enslaved the poor, the females.
NOW obviously that sounds uncomfortable for any muslim, or religious person...I can read the Qur'an and feel its truth...but for hadiths....
I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!! I can't understand why was Bukhari entrusted with such faith, and his dream was unquestionable...the whole history behind hadith makes me feel so conflicted and feel like...does everyone I know really have it wrong??? am I the heathens and truth twisters the Qur'an mentions I have always grewn to not trust my judgment due to my homosexuality it confused everything....
Well, honestly, we all have our own inclinations. When we read something, we tend to interpret things in a way that benefits us. However, this is our war with ourselves, to let the Qur'an speak. It is not your problem alone and it has nothing to do with homosexuality.
I am trying so hard to believe in hadith, but I just can't....I had my struggles with Islam but I realised its cause of muslims them selves, I felt whatever they are I don't want to be like them...when I read the Qur'an I felt it has nothing to do with those muslims...or maybe!!! ITS my perception playing tricks on me just like homosexuality....
Why do you have to try hard to believe in things the Qur'an forbids you to ? You received no such orders from God, but from your friends/family/society.
I just don't understand why are there judgments in hadith not mentioned in the Qur'an...when they can be quiet specific, and the Qur'an can be VERY detailed about certain aspects.....why would God not mention it in the Qur'an...
On the other hand, he does say obey him and his messenger...so I just don't know...
God never spoke to me direct, the only way we can obey Him is by obeying what His messengers are sent with. If you follow the message, you are following the messenger, and following messenger is following God. Remember that without the message, Muhammad isnt a messenger.
480 Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed God; and whoever turns away, We have not sent you as a guardian over them
Not to mention that after many of the "obey God and obey the messenger" verses, God tells you what the job of the messenger is, for example
592 And obey God and obey the messenger, and be aware. If you turn away then know that it is the duty of Our messenger to deliver clearly
2454 Say "Obey God, and obey the messenger." But if they turn away, then he is only responsible for his obligation, and you are responsible for your obligations. And if you obey him, you will be guided. The messenger is only required to deliver clearly.
6412 Obey God and obey the messenger. And if you turn away, then it is only required of Our messenger to deliver clearly.
So my friend, these traditional Muslims use the phrase "obey god and obey the messenger" as a redirection link to jump immediately out of Qur'an and follow books written by themselves where they can find what they wish for.
But what makes Bukhari infaliable to mistakes...why are those not directly quoted from the prophet...why is there a more than 2 involved in each hadith....100 year at least if not 200 after his death?...Really....that is logical?? how...doctors engineers, people who live in different countries....how can they all be wrong....(...I had a friend who dreamt of the prophet muhammad too...did he??? just like bukhari...
Guys...I am going crazy....I am so sick of feeling I am never going to be righteous and that I am always corrupted to the core....
Also what do you guys think about artists in regards to islam...visual that is...I always wanted to pursue something like that...but I always assumed since the prophet prohibited drawing certain things, that its probably my vile homosexual 'creative' side that drives me to that...but I feel so miserable...I can't trust my instincts at all...I'd rather shutdown like computers and be a black screen...if suicide did that it wouldave been great....
I guess the word is...HELP...
well.... believe me , the traditional muslims understand the problem you mention about Bukhari. You can prove it simply by asking them why they wont accept St. Paul, Mark,Matthew, Luke and John's writings. You can see their debate videos with christians. They keep on asking the Christians, "Who authorized Paul, John,Mark, etc ?"
It is just that when it comes to their own faith, they do not judge their decisions by the same standards.
I pray and hope that God guides you to His straight path.
Peace
------------- Student of Allah -
Salaam,
I am consciously, in the main, trying not to contribute advice wise to any religion-based threads for the timebeing. Although, I would like to respond to your questions, I will refrain for the moment, but I reserve my right to do so as I may retract this later.
I found your post very distressing. Why do you hate yourself so much? I would like to reiterate the questions which "Bigmo" asked.
Don't ever feel the compulsion to follow anything as a ritual. I believe that the true value of your imaan is in your heart, mind and soul. Ask Allah for guidance. Forget Bukhari et al. (for reasons other posters have described, and more besides). Only with the guidance of Allah will you find peace.
To a large degree already, I think you're being too hard on yourself. Forget how you think you ought to feel, surpass the indoctrination, ask Allah for guidance and with the help of Allah, free yourself from these shackles and find peace.
I sincerely hope you find your path. Ameen.
Peace to you, always.
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How were your views about homosexuality shaped? How did you come to the conclusion that it was bad?
Well...I never really knew what to think of the being gay thing, obviously people love to make poetry about how to curse someone who is homosexual..., but I never understood either why would I be attracted to same sex, have no way of knowing who is gay and who is not, be mostly attracted to very straight males...and obviously the biology does not fit very well...but still I had those attractions, and I had nil girl attraction..
Anyways Islam depressed me for a while too though..God said in the Qur'an that Lut told them never has anyone been creative in sinning... and that really hurt...cause I was like I didn't want to be like this God.., I understood where Lut's people came from, so I felt horrible and that God gave a ticket to Muslims to dismiss my problem, and not try to help me and instead accuse my lack of faith.
I did realise though in the verse after in The Heights (A3raf), after Lut asked them, god said, and they ONLY REPLIED with get him out, so they did not seek help or understanding...and PERHAPS...that is where things went wrong...maybe I am just conveniently trying to redeem my self...but I can't take the suicidal thoughts anymore.
Anyways I researched many many times...and the religous easy would have you say you are a pervert, or you are trying to bring chaos to our society, or you are just making this up to upset us...things that are REALLY dismissive makes you feel your human experience is a scam, you were meant to be a robot.
On the other hand 'open minded' straight people would say 'I don't care what you do in your bedroom' and pretend that this means he approves me when it really says is you go do what you want, I DON'T CARE...well sorry I want someone to care. Then there is the gays themselves...I didn't deal with many in person, but one thing I noticed we are all so emotionally damaged, wither we fess it up or not, and most of us have horrible self image (figures) and most of us quiet bluntly have horrible dads and family dynamics...and most of us are...artistic and that crap. So I felt like that can't be an accident...having a bad dad isn't genetic is it...
Anyways there is NARTH website, and Dr.Joseph Nicolosi, who handled the problem from a shame aspect, that most homosexual men anyways have a problem with what it means to be a man, they felt men are assholes (true to me) and thus detached themselves, but were left with...well what the heck am I, and somehow that's where it gets twisted...sexualised men...as a defense to there identity cause they themselves are men...I don't know how that happens, but I do know my dad hated my guts and beat the living crap out of me, and never validated me, and most guys instinctly hated me and I hung out with mostly girls through my life cause they are what I got along with...till one girl said 'you're not a girl...why the heck are you always hanging out with girls'...so basicly it is an identity crisis, in this world that is so obsessed about making money and getting MORE...and more crap..
so ya...that's why I think homosexuality is a manifestation of bad relationships....its a much longer theory visit narth.com )
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Peace be upon you. I am quite new here, but I will still share with you my insights.
Hi Ariana what you say make oh so much wonderfull sense to me, it sounds like what I want to believe....I remember when the whole gay thing started and I seeked other religions to understand what went wrong, and seeing what muslims accused other previous religions of doing with corrupting it...especialy christianity, that was the same thing I wondered...muslims despise the saint concept, yet they do it themselves...they try to sanctify Abu-Bakr, and Omar, and get so riled up if you critisize a sheikh, or say what if I don't believe that this is what God meant?...
They used to elaborate how islam frees us from needing priests to pray to God, and that Islam is now everyones right, yet everything is up to those scholars, who God knows what are they taught...I have been in pharmacy just cause I am taught about drugs, doesn't mean I will get to know how it works, cause sometimes we are taught we don't know yet?...and just cause something was taught in pharmacy doesn't mean that it is whats true about most recent evidence, where things change so fast, right is found to be wrong, wrong is found to be right...and WORSE of all, influences of political/monetary control twists science to its own advantage.
I want to believe this whole attractions things was something God gave me to question people around me...although how horrible it is to be ostracized and seen as a walking bad omen.....but still...what if I am just trapped in my own ignorance...
You know some hadiths are actually nice and sounds ok, but some just sounds like Prophet Mohammed was quiet ruthless...and it just doesn't sound like him...but who am I to state that God's judgment is ruthless....Bukhari also seemed like a well intended person, I do wonder how did people sanctify his memory never mind his decision...but..
So none of you had a certain dream that affirmed him in the position of what they should do regarding this...are dreams something that is valid to a...Quranist? It hurts me how people who believe in hadith don't even know bukhari was a persian not an arab, I love farsi, and persians very much thats not the point, but how little they know about where these hadiths come from and yet trust them.
I think God repeats it in the Qur'an a lot that everytime the truth is sent, people say that thats what our ancestors (fathers) and GOD told us to do but it is not, but they don't feel, how that theres a lot of people who think they are doing good but they are not, but still they do not feel. I guess I am just worried which person am I in this story....am I who feels or who doesn't..
.......Death is my only certain answer isn't it?
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Shalom aleikhem my friend,
Welcome to the forum.
------------- Student of Allah
Thanks for your welcome and detailed reply....Believe me it all makes sense to me so much, but I am always surprised by the twists and turns people do when I ask them why is hadith valid...and I turn out to be satan's whisper...or some choose to say we do not know seek scholars...and scholars are so...rude?!...and angry?!..and loud?!...and...non conversational..you say something they answer as if you said something else
Also God said do not prefer a prophet over the other, yet sticking to the hadith of prophet Mohammed only...and only him, shows extreme preference...I don't know....
Maybe because I was raised in the middle east my self...so its hard for me to forgo this dogma...as...dogma...I just can't have the audacity of judging all those people as wrong....and blind...how can I a measly 23 year old gay couldave 'figured it out' and after 1000s of years (has it been?) they didn't their must be something that makes sense that is missing....maybe I just don't want to face another ostracizing feeling about my self....being gay is bad enough....
such a drama queen i am...why can't I just eat dates and drink milk and shut up?
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nevashiva,
Alsalaamu alaykoum wa rahmatullah barakatuh,
We 3alaykom el Salam we rahmatullah we barakatuh D ;D
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Salaam,
I am consciously, in the main, trying not to contribute advice wise to any religion-based threads for the timebeing. Although, I would like to respond to your questions, I will refrain for the moment, but I reserve my right to do so as I may retract this later.
Peace to you, always.
Thank you so much to your welcome...LOL I think this is the most pleasant welcomes I even had on a muslim forum...and even a forum...too good to be true is how I truly feel....
Hating my self is just how I have always breathed, I hope one day I will understand the difference between selfishness and self-love...
...the problem is when you are gay...gay people would tell me that's what I need to do as well....so....its all smoke and mirrors to me what is dogma and what is sinfull..and what the heck am I...
Anyways regardless thank you so much for wishes and welcomes group
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Maybe because I was raised in the middle east my self...so its hard for me to forgo this dogma...as...dogma...I just can't have the audacity of judging all those people as wrong....and blind...how can I a measly 23 year old gay couldave 'figured it out' and after 1000s of years (has it been?) they didn't their must be something that makes sense that is missing....maybe I just don't want to face another ostracizing feeling about my self....being gay is bad enough....
such a drama queen i am...why can't I just eat dates and drink milk and shut up?
Well, if you ask me, nearly all messengers/prophets had the audacity to question the world around them, their collective views/thoughts/ideas. The last time I read about Abraham, the story wasnt like "Oh... so I am the only one that thinks, but how can all of the other people be wrong, there is just too many of them, so let me submit to their numbers. ". That attitude gets us no where near truth. Think about our scientific progress, it is built by challenging the conventions and winning by the weight of evidence and reason. Not through submission to popular beliefs.
Since your inclination is towards Islam, why dont you ask yourself this question " How can 2 Billion Christians be wrong, thats even after having 2000 years of collective thought put into it ?"
The reason you can't eat dates, drink milk and shut up is because you are not a rejector, you do not conceal the truth, you establish it.
Peace be with you
------------------------- Student of Allah
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Well, if you ask me, nearly all messengers/prophets had the audacity to question the world around them, their collective views/thoughts/ideas. The last time I read about Abraham, the story wasnt like "Oh... so I am the only one that thinks, but how can all of the other people be wrong, there is just too many of them, so let me submit to their numbers. ". That attitude gets us no where near truth. Think about our scientific progress, it is built by challenging the conventions and winning by the weight of evidence and reason. Not through submission to popular beliefs.
Since your inclination is towards Islam, why dont you ask yourself this question " How can 2 Billion Christians be wrong, thats even after having 2000 years of collective thought put into it ?"
The reason you can't eat dates, drink milk and shut up is because you are not a rejector, you do not conceal the truth, you establish it.
Peace be with you
------------------------- Student of Allah
Yes I thought of the scenario...so I was like...so do I say I am of a prophet audacity...?!!!
I mean at the end of the day the prophet did get God to speak to them...so I can never be sure...and maybe that's what I need to settle with....
Yes so what about Christians...which is what makes me worry, that I still am just the result of my circumstances after all, itsn't that my logic won...its just cause of my life story is why I want to be a 'Qur'anist' I just resorted to my comfort zone after all just like everyone else...
I just need to make a decision...and I have always been horrible at that...maybe if I study hadiths better I'd figure something that would affirm me the way or the other...
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Thanks for your welcome and detailed reply....Believe me it all makes sense to me so much, but I am always surprised by the twists and turns people do when I ask them why is hadith valid...and I turn out to be satan's whisper...or some choose to say we do not know seek scholars...and scholars are so...rude?!...and angry?!..and loud?!...and...non conversational..you say something they answer as if you said something else
Also God said do not prefer a prophet over the other, yet sticking to the hadith of prophet Mohammed only...and only him, shows extreme preference...I don't know....
Maybe because I was raised in the middle east my self...so its hard for me to forgo this dogma...as...dogma...I just can't have the audacity of judging all those people as wrong....and blind...how can I a measly 23 year old gay couldave 'figured it out' and after 1000s of years (has it been?) they didn't their must be something that makes sense that is missing....maybe I just don't want to face another ostracizing feeling about my self....being gay is bad enough....
such a drama queen i am...why can't I just eat dates and drink milk and shut up?
Salaam Brother,
Just because something is done for hundreds or thousands of years, the passing of time doesn't make it correct. Allah mentions this in the Qur'an about how people would mock Muhammad and protest against God's message with the claim that their forefathers had been indulging in idol worship and this was something which had gone on for such a long time, how could it possibly be wrong! For how long was the Earth flat? For how long was idol worship in existence before any revelation from God through His Prophets and Messengers? For how long will it be acceptable to stone people to death and so arrogantly claim that this is God's decree? By questioning you are doing absolutely the correct thing. From my experience, people take Hadiths at face value because they feel they are linked to God through "noble" and "pious" men and this has been a tradition amongst some for centuries. Hence, they don't question it, but until it is questioned, we will live in ignorance. Otherwise, this ignorance will pass on from generation to generation, which it has been doing for too long. If you read the Hadiths, there are very contradictory things in there. You will find that at every turn with these collections, despite attaching the word "Sahih" from them. I honestly don't beleive Allah cares which hand you eat with or how long your beard is or how many dates you choose to eat. Worrying about these benign, superficial things takes the very essence out of faith. You will get people passing on dogma to you and preaching and dictating away to you just because they have a collection of Hadiths in their library. Well, this doesn't make them right and you wrong. Allah is accessible to everyone-not just those who decide to quote Bukhari et al as a footnote in the Qur'an. The important thing is to follow the guidance of the Qur'an and nothing else.
As for the gay thing, being gay or having been gay doesn't preclude you from having "figured it out", well, not in my opinion anyway. I'm aware your own experience dictates otherwise (and I'm sure many people on this forum would disagree with me), but to me, Allah's words of the best of creation being those who possess piety come to mind.
Have faith in your own convictions. Trust in Allah and insh'Allah, with others' help, perhaps, the answer will come from within you.
May you find your peace.
Ma assalamah.
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Thank you so much to your welcome...LOL I think this is the most pleasant welcomes I even had on a muslim forum...and even a forum...too good to be true is how I truly feel....
Hating my self is just how I have always breathed, I hope one day I will understand the difference between selfishness and self-love...
...the problem is when you are gay...gay people would tell me that's what I need to do as well....so....its all smoke and mirrors to me what is dogma and what is sinfull..and what the heck am I...
Anyways regardless thank you so much for wishes and welcomes group
I have just seen what you posted. Thank you, but there's no need for you to thank me. I just wish you didn't feel like this, but we go through every process for a reason. Insh'Allah may Allah deliver you to your peace very soon.
Can I just ask, as long as you're comfortable with it, where are you currently based? I have spent a relatively large amount of time (considering I am a heterosexual woman) with gay (particularly Muslim) men in many personal and social settings as I have had a number of friends, who were, inadvertently, gay and Muslim. I haven't found my experiences to be the same as yours. Of course, I am not a part of that circle, but I have spent a lot of time within it and I have met some really nice people. After all there's good and bad everywhere.
Yes I thought of the scenario...so I was like...so do I say I am of a prophet audacity...?!!!
I mean at the end of the day the prophet did get God to speak to them...so I can never be sure...and maybe that's what I need to settle with....
Yes so what about Christians...which is what makes me worry, that I still am just the result of my circumstances after all, itsn't that my logic won...its just cause of my life story is why I want to be a 'Qur'anist' I just resorted to my comfort zone after all just like everyone else...
I just need to make a decision...and I have always been horrible at that...maybe if I study hadiths better I'd figure something that would affirm me the way or the other...
Of course you can have the "audactity" of a Prophet. The Prophets were fallible human beings too and there are many examples of this in the Qur'an.
With Hadith, if we apply a logic of common sense (apart from the fact that they are not an attachment of the Qur'an by divine revelation), they just cannot be accurate. Now, I will give you an everyday example. If I tell my brother something and then he tells my mum, my mum then narrates this back to me, the narration is always very different from the original. This is because we all speak differently, we use different levels of English, different vocabulary, our depth of expression is different and much is lost in the transportation of the message. These are just a few things which I have listed. This is a chain which involves only three people and we are from the same family, yet this is something which occurs on a regular basis, I have to consistently make corrections to the eventual message which was received because it has been completely misconstrued from when the utterance first left my mouth. Now, with a chain of narration involving numerous people, how on Earth can you expect a collection of sayings, which are effectively "Chinese Whispers" to have passed through different tribes, countries, linguistic frames, political backdrops and evasive memories to stay true to their original form? How can you possibly deny people their basic human rights on this? How can you use these nonsensical works to overrule God? It is ridiculous and doesn't make sense on a basic, common-sense level, let alone after having been put through a modicum of scrutiny.Once you have studied them, insh'Allah, you will see the truth. They are collections of absurdities. There is no need for them whatsoever. They are, in fact, a hindrance to your spiritual and emotional development and not a nourisher or enhancer of them.
Peace be with you.
Ma salaam.
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I was just wondering.... do you feel ashamed being attracted to guys? isn't something only a sin if you act on desires? i am woman very much attracted to guys but being single most of my life, i have been celibate. Desiring to have sex with men is not a sin and it makes me 'normal' to have sexual feelings. The Koran is clear on fornication being a major sin and telling us not to even go near it. Acting on desires outside marriage is a sin. So why can't you just accept being a homosexual and live a chaste life like other heterosexual single people out there?
Instead of feeling terrible about yourself and thinking of killing of yourself, why not think that this is your test and trial in this temporary life and make the most of your life doing good deeds and striving to live a righteous life and controlling your desires. Why can't you think that God loves you to make you different and giving you this hardship?
Why look for explanations of why you are a homosexual? Why not accept yourself that you are homosexual but it goes against your understanding and belief system to act on your homosexual feelings and desires? And that's it.
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Well...I never really knew what to think of the being gay thing, obviously people love to make poetry about how to curse someone who is homosexual..., but I never understood either why would I be attracted to same sex, have no way of knowing who is gay and who is not, be mostly attracted to very straight males...and obviously the biology does not fit very well...but still I had those attractions, and I had nil girl attraction..
Anyways Islam depressed me for a while too though..God said in the Qur'an that Lut told them never has anyone been creative in sinning... and that really hurt...cause I was like I didn't want to be like this God.., I understood where Lut's people came from, so I felt horrible and that God gave a ticket to Muslims to dismiss my problem, and not try to help me and instead accuse my lack of faith.
I did realise though in the verse after in The Heights (A3raf), after Lut asked them, god said, and they ONLY REPLIED with get him out, so they did not seek help or understanding...and PERHAPS...that is where things went wrong...maybe I am just conveniently trying to redeem my self...but I can't take the suicidal thoughts anymore.
Anyways I researched many many times...and the religous easy would have you say you are a pervert, or you are trying to bring chaos to our society, or you are just making this up to upset us...things that are REALLY dismissive makes you feel your human experience is a scam, you were meant to be a robot.
On the other hand 'open minded' straight people would say 'I don't care what you do in your bedroom' and pretend that this means he approves me when it really says is you go do what you want, I DON'T CARE...well sorry I want someone to care. Then there is the gays themselves...I didn't deal with many in person, but one thing I noticed we are all so emotionally damaged, wither we fess it up or not, and most of us have horrible self image (figures) and most of us quiet bluntly have horrible dads and family dynamics...and most of us are...artistic and that crap. So I felt like that can't be an accident...having a bad dad isn't genetic is it...
Anyways there is NARTH website, and Dr.Joseph Nicolosi, who handled the problem from a shame aspect, that most homosexual men anyways have a problem with what it means to be a man, they felt men are assholes (true to me) and thus detached themselves, but were left with...well what the heck am I, and somehow that's where it gets twisted...sexualised men...as a defense to there identity cause they themselves are men...I don't know how that happens, but I do know my dad hated my guts and beat the living crap out of me, and never validated me, and most guys instinctly hated me and I hung out with mostly girls through my life cause they are what I got along with...till one girl said 'you're not a girl...why the heck are you always hanging out with girls'...so basicly it is an identity crisis, in this world that is so obsessed about making money and getting MORE...and more crap..
so ya...that's why I think homosexuality is a manifestation of bad relationships....its a much longer theory visit narth.com
I do not understand what makes you think homsexuality has anything to do with God's destruction of the people of Lot and why you would think homosexuality is a great sin. Anyways we had a forum user by the name of Mushu who opened an interesting thread about this issue of Lot and homosexuality. This is the thread, maybe you can comment on it.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602272.0
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Hello Nevashiva.
Yes bro, you are right. No offence but the "muslims" are really hypocrites. They criticise other religions to the nth degree, but when it comes to their own faith, they somehow will have selective amnesia. Haha. You should read the quran translations at quran.com. You will notice that they will twist and turn the ayats and blame and threaten the jews and christians in their translations. Sad life. nope
Bro, please never think that God will misguide you due to your shortcomings. Remember that Moses murdered a man in the earlier part of his life. Later on, however, he was granted prophethood. God knows us better than we do.
Death will only come at the right time and the right place. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
You continue doing what you were created to do. Your judgement is from Allah alone others are just shadow's of their authentic selves and are irrelevant towards your journey into the light. May your heart be filled with love and your spirit guided by the Creator do good deeds and be prepared to receive your blessings....One Love! group
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I do not understand what makes you think homsexuality has anything to do with God's destruction of the people of Lot and why you would think homosexuality is a great sin. Anyways we had a forum user by the name of Mushu who opened an interesting thread about this issue of Lot and homosexuality. This is the thread, maybe you can comment on it.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602272.0
Guys come on, I mean the verse in Aaraf (881) bluntly states it as do you lust men without the women....I have read those theories about what exactly did people of lut do and all that good stuff...but the much easier to attain meaning is that it talks about a society...that lusts for men with no women...it was stated in the old books the same way...three times getting it wrong is to difficult for me to believe...but thanks I will read the post...
I also am fixated on why I am homosexual because of the whole...no one ever did it before...I want to understand what does that mean?....why do I want it and it is surprising by God's standards..., but then maybe it meant no human beheld this before....rather than God being astonished...but still...God ruined there place for that reason...
sigh...i'll just disappear for now hate this cycle of never understand the heck I am...
Thanks everyone tho...was nice to talk...