God's Care
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If God was so great to his people he would've erased Satan on the spot and made us all happy angelic beings in his heaven.
Yet he didn't as Satan has his/it purpose too...
Secondly once again people talk about suffering due to the actions of others. What about natural disasters?
You can call it God's disaster, in reality it has the same meanings..
I can have a good estimate that you have grown up in 'western hemisphere' (Middle east and Turkey included) thus your perception of God is that He's all good... and He's a 'person'.. (Personified God)..
Try to have a 'balanced' view of God.. (which is common among those who lives in the Eastern Hemisphere) as He (or It)'s the source of ALL things...
Every beings are His servant.. some serve the "Dark Side" and some others serve the "Light Side".. as depicted by the Star Wars movies where the author drew the inspiration from "Easterners" philosophical thought.. especially Chinese Taoism..
Which 'side of the force' that you choose to serve?
It's all up to you.. as each actions has it's own consequences...May The Force Be With You
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Appreciate the responses, but I would actually like to know why would an all-powerful and all-merciful god let such terrible things happen to people. The key words here are let happen.
Is it because of some ego caused by Satan's disobediance? If so who honestly gives a crap. If God was so great to his people he would've erased Satan on the spot and made us all happy angelic beings in his heaven.
Secondly once again people talk about suffering due to the actions of others. What about natural disasters?
The fact I'm posting it here after already trying this several times only tells me there is no such being, or one that gives a crap.
yeap, been there myself thinking/feeling like that. why create the universe, angels, satan, animals, human beings and all this suffering? there is so much suffering....losing a loved one in death or never having love.... there is suffering in illnesses. God can do anything and so why doesn't he put an end to all this?
well, carlee.... you will never get the answers. We are here on this earth for a finite time having the free will and choice. Yes, you can achieve that mental state of feeling happy just to be alive. Memories will always be there but you don't have to give life to painful memories. We cannot erase the past but we can heal and grow from them. Yes, God can change your condition - mental state of being. He did mine when I turned to God.
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^It so happened life turned out bearable for you; that's great. To think everyone's capable of the same thing by trying their hardest to follow a book said to be from an all-powerful all-merciful god is immature.
Salam Carlee,
Isn't that what happiness is all about? what fun is all about? what blessing is all about?
maybe you need to pay a price for all those states of existence?
maybe the price is that you need to put more effort to understand it from the Creator's pov?
I believe that the mind is empowering yet can be devastating.Wallahua3lam,
I gave all the effort in my 20 years. Again with the "lol ur not doing it right and havent tried enough!" notions.
This aayat may help you if you understand.
238
238 We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.
May Allah guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanImplying I have not tried living by the guidance for a long time even though I pointed out before that I was.
Perhaps said guidance is just bullshit and a lie.
Yet he didn't as Satan has his/it purpose too...
You can call it God's disaster, in reality it has the same meanings..I can have a good estimate that you have grown up in 'western hemisphere' (Middle east and Turkey included) thus your perception of God is that He's all good... and He's a 'person'.. (Personified God)..
Try to have a 'balanced' view of God.. (which is common among those who lives in the Eastern Hemisphere) as He (or It)'s the source of ALL things...
Every beings are His servant.. some serve the "Dark Side" and some others serve the "Light Side".. as depicted by the Star Wars movies where the author drew the inspiration from "Easterners" philosophical thought.. especially Chinese Taoism..
Which 'side of the force' that you choose to serve?
It's all up to you.. as each actions has it's own consequences...May The Force Be With You
That's my point. He should've, otherwise he is not "all-powerful" and "all-merciful" as mentioned in the Quran. By what does the book mean when it attributes these to him? That he's only SOMETIMES all-powerful and SOMETIMES all-merciful? Those would be oxymorons. To be all-powerful you must have unlimited/absolute power at every single second. It means the same for all-merciful or all-anything. Guess the Quran screwed up there.
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^It so happened life turned out bearable for you; that's great. To think everyone's capable of the same thing by trying their hardest to follow a book said to be from an all-powerful all-merciful god is immature.
I gave all the effort in my 20 years. Again with the "lol ur not doing it right and havent tried enough!" notions.
Implying I have not tried living by the guidance for a long time even though I pointed out before that I was.
Perhaps said guidance is just bullshit and a lie.
Salam Carlee,
what if you're close mindedness for all the different possibilities is what's causing the blockage of barkah?
i believe that what we believe in is what will manifest in our reality..
and believe is not about saying, but about what you committed deep inside your heart and actualizing it in your daily life
so whatever test you get you would always look at it from the positive perspective
and with this new positive perspective you reevaluate your ideal world model..
this ideal world model if it's in accord with the Will of Allah is what will manifest..you will need to have this (sound heart) to proceed, without it you'll have no chance..
Sahih International
But only one who comes to Allah with a sound heart."the keywords to look at are
(pure heart)
(ignorant prejudice)Salam
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Why is it that so many people talk about God being merciful, omnipotent and all that other crap but won't even allow righteous believers in him to have bearable lives? Why does he cause so many of them the kind of misery that makes them even go kill themselves to end their sadness, when they have the means to do it? This is also not some temporary hard time; it's more like a chronic depression, caused by none other than God's lack of care to make one's life even somewhat bearable.
Believing in such a god at this point defies all logic, plain and simple.
This is a very important point you raised. But from my experience it will not serve any purpose. The reality is we are here on Earth not by our choice. And we have no way to erase the realities of life. The only choice we have is how we react to it and how we respond. Many people have wondered about the pains of life and nothing has been done. It will always be the reality of life on Earth. Getting mad against God will not change God. Those suffering will have to learn how to cope. They are by far not alone. Life is filled with sufferings and trajedies and trauma.
I think some people suffer more than others. But I also believe everybody faces suffering. Wondering why this is so will not solve anything. In fact the Quran reminds us that the angels did not understand why God wanted to bring Adam to Earth. They saw enough suffering on Earth and did not see the wisdom of having a intelligent creation dominate the Earth and increase the pain and suffering. A quick glance at the animal life on earth reveals a world filled with animosity, hostility and trajedies. All animals have to watch their back and struggle to survive and surviving most often means death to another creature. I don't think anyone can truly understand the pain of life and why it should be so. But you can bet that many, many have tried to understand.
We often want God to change things in our life, but sometimes the best you can ask for is that God helps you through with it.
I usually listen to this lecture when I want to be reminded. Its by Pastor Dennis Smith.
http//www.your-church.com/sermon-faith-struggle.php
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^It so happened life turned out bearable for you; that's great. To think everyone's capable of the same thing by trying their hardest to follow a book said to be from an all-powerful all-merciful god is immature.
nope, life didn't turn out to be bearable for me. what changed is my attitude and reaction.
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yeap, been there myself thinking/feeling like that. why create the universe, angels, satan, animals, human beings and all this suffering? there is so much suffering....losing a loved one in death or never having love.... there is suffering in illnesses. God can do anything and so why doesn't he put an end to all this?
Salaam JustAMuslim,
Great! When we realize that these things has been created from Our Lord, God. This is all because we have to realize and accept the truth that finally we are just the creation, we cannot compare ourselves with TheCreator. We are bounded and has to agree with what our TheCreator has asked us to do. We got a free will but in limits. We cannot take out sun from the west if it is raising from east. We cannot make plants walk or fly like other creature.
We got a free will only up to the limits raised by Allah. We have to understand it and we have to surrender ourselves to His will.
BUT, even after realizing our limits, people bring others to the level of Allah. They think themselves are more smart and intelligent than our TheCreator . They think that they can deny the word of Allah and do what they want... OK, do it as you wish BUT till your death, when death appears to you will will soon come to know the Truth that you deny.
May Allah protect us from such ignorance, and deafness and dumbness and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Implying I have not tried living by the guidance for a long time even though I pointed out before that I was.
Perhaps said guidance is just bullshit and a lie.
Just an information!
1745
1745 And when you recite the Qur'an, We put between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter a concealed partition.1746
1746 And We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And when you mention your Lord alone in the Qur'an, they turn back in aversion.This gonna be my last post to this person, inshaAllah.
mmKhan
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That's my point. He should've, otherwise he is not "all-powerful" and "all-merciful" as mentioned in the Quran. By what does the book mean when it attributes these to him? That he's only SOMETIMES all-powerful and SOMETIMES all-merciful? Those would be oxymorons. To be all-powerful you must have unlimited/absolute power at every single second. It means the same for all-merciful or all-anything. Guess the Quran screwed up there.
It's not an oxymoron at all.. the word "all" might be a mistranslation of arabic prefix "AL" which should be translated as "THE"... Well even on this sentence it can be seen that the first occurence of the word "all" doesn't actually mean "all" at all... He's always powerful and he's always merciful and he's always just.. not even your hair can fell off from your head if it's not in accordance to His will.. The next question will be what will you do if His will is not in accordance to yours?
And didn't you get it?
It's not about 'adjusting God's will' to yours..
But it's the other way around, it's about adjusting your will to His....- "Let Thy Will Be Done, On Earth as it is in Heaven" -- Jesus The Christ
- ?When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.? -- Lao Tze
- "Your own desire is the root of suffering" -- Siddharta
Which is what islam (the attitude) is all about...
Salam / Peace
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No, the Quran claims there's a god who's "capable of all things", unless you're trying to say your god is then not omnipotent.
It also claims he "knows everything". I'm also pretty sure it says somewhere there're no limits to his mercy. Even mainstream Islam teaches this, and it gives a much more sinister impression of "God" than any Quran-alone sect.
Salam Carlee,
what if you're close mindedness for all the different possibilities is what's causing the blockage of barkah?
i believe that what we believe in is what will manifest in our reality..
and believe is not about saying, but about what you committed deep inside your heart and actualizing it in your daily life
so whatever test you get you would always look at it from the positive perspective
and with this new positive perspective you reevaluate your ideal world model..
this ideal world model if it's in accord with the Will of Allah is what will manifest..you will need to have this (sound heart) to proceed, without it you'll have no chance..the keywords to look at are
(pure heart)
(ignorant prejudice)Salam
First of all, wtf is barkah? You mean baraka? If so, speak English, as this is an English forum.
Not to mention the Arabic text's too small to read and one of the "keywords" are not even in the verse.
"i believe that what we believe in is what will manifest in our reality.."
Awesome; that's you. Everything following that is based on this belief of yours, not to mention this is basically more of the claim it's possible for anyone to make their life bearable (mentally, if one or more people haven't figured yet is what's meant) to them. Again, another irrational/immature way to think.
This is a very important point you raised. But from my experience it will not serve any purpose. The reality is we are here on Earth not by our choice. And we have no way to erase the realities of life. The only choice we have is how we react to it and how we respond. Many people have wondered about the pains of life and nothing has been done. It will always be the reality of life on Earth. Getting mad against God will not change God. Those suffering will have to learn how to cope. They are by far not alone. Life is filled with sufferings and trajedies and trauma.
I think some people suffer more than others. But I also believe everybody faces suffering. Wondering why this is so will not solve anything. In fact the Quran reminds us that the angels did not understand why God wanted to bring Adam to Earth. They saw enough suffering on Earth and did not see the wisdom of having a intelligent creation dominate the Earth and increase the pain and suffering. A quick glance at the animal life on earth reveals a world filled with animosity, hostility and trajedies. All animals have to watch their back and struggle to survive and surviving most often means death to another creature. I don't think anyone can truly understand the pain of life and why it should be so. But you can bet that many, many have tried to understand.
We often want God to change things in our life, but sometimes the best you can ask for is that God helps you through with it.
I usually listen to this lecture when I want to be reminded. Its by Pastor Dennis Smith.
http//www.your-church.com/sermon-faith-struggle.php
No, you and I know that's the truth. I also like this post in general.
Will probably watch that later.
nope, life didn't turn out to be bearable for me. what changed is my attitude and reaction.
The fact you aren't planning to end you life now or something along those lines is what I meant.
Salaam JustAMuslim,
Great! When we realize that these things has been created from Our Lord, God. This is all because we have to realize and accept the truth that finally we are just the creation, we cannot compare ourselves with TheCreator. We are bounded and has to agree with what our TheCreator has asked us to do. We got a free will but in limits. We cannot take out sun from the west if it is raising from east. We cannot make plants walk or fly like other creature.
We got a free will only up to the limits raised by Allah. We have to understand it and we have to surrender ourselves to His will.
BUT, even after realizing our limits, people bring others to the level of Allah. They think themselves are more smart and intelligent than our TheCreator . They think that they can deny the word of Allah and do what they want... OK, do it as you wish BUT till your death, when death appears to you will will soon come to know the Truth that you deny.
May Allah protect us from such ignorance, and deafness and dumbness and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanI see you still have no proof of the omnipotence and all-mercifulness you're implying. You can't answer to the refutation of that given here (it's not even a complicated issue) and instead make false claims (not to mention insults) about people, and hence straw men.
I hope your last post here is your final, since it's come closer to spam than even your previous ones.
-Edit- I just have to say more about this last quote. It's almost so irrelevant to the subject matter it's funny.
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Salaam
I disagree.
Please look at my post above and what Good Logic wrote that is against of what you said above. Please be careful while saying anything on Allah and take a look at the following
16116
16116 And do not say about what your tongues assert of untruth, "This is lawful and this is unlawful," to invent falsehood about Allah. Indeed, those who invent falsehood about Allah will not succeed.May Allah protect us all and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanI just re-read this and good logic's "post above", and it's clear as day both users haven't read jack s*** in this topic.
Have a nice day.
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Why is it that so many people talk about God being merciful, omnipotent and all that other crap but won't even allow righteous believers in him to have bearable lives? Why does he cause so many of them the kind of misery that makes them even go kill themselves to end their sadness, when they have the means to do it? This is also not some temporary hard time; it's more like a chronic depression, caused by none other than God's lack of care to make one's life even somewhat bearable.
Believing in such a god at this point defies all logic, plain and simple.
Theodicy the tension between believing in a just and good God, and seeing the suffering in this world. I spent some time as an atheist/agnostic because of this. My question to you are you sincerely asking, or are you just here to debate with people that you feel need straightened out by your enlightened mind?
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Ok, Carlee.
First, I'm going to ask some questions, if that is ok with you. Feel free to answer or not answer any of them.
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Would it be safe to say that you feel logic and reason will not allow you to believe in a just, all-powerful God that either causes and/or allows suffering?
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Do you think it is ever justified to cause or inflict suffering or death as a means of preventing more suffering? Example where I live, deer sometimes become overpopulated because of a large food supply. Hunting becomes encouraged because overpopulation leads to starving and sickly animals that suffer horribly.
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Have you ever squished a bug and not felt remorse for it?
Wow, what a post!
The answer is both.
P.S. - that smiley's not an indication I'm fine though the above post's so much better than most posts here it makes me feel slightly so.
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Ok, Carlee. )
First, I'm going to ask some questions, if that is ok with you. Feel free to answer or not answer any of them.
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Would it be safe to say that you feel logic and reason will not allow you to believe in a just, all-powerful God that either causes and/or allows suffering?
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Do you think it is ever justified to cause or inflict suffering or death as a means of preventing more suffering? Example where I live, deer sometimes become overpopulated because of a large food supply. Hunting becomes encouraged because overpopulation leads to starving and sickly animals that suffer horribly.
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Have you ever squished a bug and not felt remorse for it?
I'd believe such if said suffering went where it belongs, i.e. people who're undoubtedly evil and did evil intentionally; not experienced by those being good and wanting to at least desire living, especially when they've not asked for a life. Heck, I may believe it if said god didn't necessarily give bounty and good to the them. At least make their life bearable enough mentally so they could achieve death via a method other than suicide. Keyword is may, since I don't see it logical they wouldn't be given that, and to give them the kind of mental torture leading to suicide, DESPITE trying so hard seeking God for help so many times before (I'm talking a 20 - 25 year period) makes the notion there's such god/light or whatever described in the Quran become very illogical. As for me, anything I've done wrong in life I've repented/apologized for LONG ago, and anything that I may do now to someone, which if anything would be in the form of words (talk-back) or slight actions, are done in retaliation; I don't just to it for the lulz or due to some kind of sadism, so no, logically there is no god - at least not the type any of the monotheistic religions (including Quran-alone sects) teach exists.
Shooting them and killing them instantly is justified, if it's going to prevent long-felt suffering such as hunger. That's even why most suicidal people want a gun - it ends suffering while not having to make you experience bursts of it before you die, not to mentioned guaranteed unlike many other methods, and when you attempt something that almost kills you but doesn't...well the rest of this should be obvious.
A bug dude. How many nerves, emotions etc. does it have compared to a much larger being like a human not to mention the human mind, plus it's a near instant death when someone (at least a good, and smart person) does it. I'm not gonna crush a leg of an ant, then another, then another before I'd kill one. It's more like a squish it didn't get to know for more than .25 seconds, done so that it doesn't cause months of some grief to a person because of an ant problem, and yes, humans much more important than insects in this sense.
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you know that you have that choice not to follow God's guidance or believe in anything. if you think it is immature to believe what is said about God and is written in the scriptures, then you don't have to. if you think God is crap and so are his scriptures, carlee you do have that choice not to follow.
wondering....are you stuck in your thinking as you are mentally suffering and reaching out for help or are you so resolute convinced in your thinking and just airing out your opinions? help me to understand what is your point, carlee?
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I believe that we don't know much about the "mechanics" of this life and it's purpose. Our minds are very small.
I also believe this life is a test and a school. We are given a chance to grow and improve ourselves to better and better states. The shit and suffering is part of the test... but is also a result of ourselves (as I currently believe)... and a necessity for us... but I don't have all the answers. But since we as human being do not know the secret of life and death and beyond, at least for experience, then we should assume there is MUCH we don't grasp, and should account for that big unknown... realizing we just don't know it all, and cannot determine how things really are, or their purpose.If it doesn't make sense to believe in a omnipotent and all merciful god, then perhaps it is our ideas that are wrong or faulty. We think we know what is just and right. We think we know what is merciful. Looking at humanity in general and how human beings behave with each other, ourselves and nature, it would be more logical to assume that we are retarded as far as justice and mercy is concerned, especially on a universal level. I don't think we as human being are the best judges of stuff like mercy and justice... looking at our track record.. sooo there might be stuff about mercy and justice we just don't comprehend.
I'm also pretty sure that our ideas of God is also quite twisted and retarded. I feel one gets a better idea of God by thinking about what God is NOT. Also scrap the terminology one is used to when thinking about reality, like 'God' for example... there is just too much false mental baggage attached to it... keeping us stuck in the same old useless thinking tracks... trapped and misled in old habitual thoughts and ideas.
If there is something which doesn't add up or make sense... perhaps we just cannot see the whole picture, or we don't see clearly, or we miss something. Perhaps it is not the thing which is wrong... but it is our thinking. It's like asking whether almighty God would be able to delete him self from existence since 'he' is almighty. Or, whether God can create a stone that is so heavy that even 'he' cannot lift it. It is the question which is faulty... it is not a proof that an almighty God doesn't exist. The problem lies in our perspective of reality... not in reality itself.
But I understand your questions and thinking... and I don't want to give shine I understand your suffering... I can only feel my own... but whatever I have posted above here now, are things I have been thinking about for a long time... so I thought I'd share it...
Peace!
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By the way if you're replying now, I just finished updating, so now it's up-to-date.
-Edit- Did a second update. Now it's up-to-date (heh this is kind of silly...p).
Lol, ok, let me see if I understand your responses. First, the problem of unjust suffering. Why are there people who go through horrible things, never seem to get any relief, and end up killing themselves? There is no way to reconcile the idea of a just, loving, and merciful God with the fact that this happens. It is illogical. Is this a fair summary of your first point?
If so, then we need to talk about human logic and reason. Do you think we, as humans, have enough logic and reason to determine what is right and wrong? I'm going to guess that you will say yes. So let's think about it a little bit. Socrates believed in a monistic soul. This means that in every person, their emotions, reason, and will all resided as a unified entity that he called the "soul" of a person. And because the will, emotions, and reason were all together in the soul, all a person had to do was figure out what was right and they would do it. In fact, they would be irresistibly compelled to do what they thought was right. Do you think that this is correct? I personally do not think Socrates was right and here's why. Have you ever known what was right to do and you didn't do it for any number of reasons? Have you known anyone else who knew that something was the right thing to do and they did the opposite? Everyone is like this to some degree. We all know that world hunger is bad, we all have the means to end it, and we don't do it. Socrates was wrong. Our will, reason, and emotions are not united in the soul. We are not truly logical or rational beings because most of the time we do not do what we know is right. We are, on occasion, capable of some level of reasoning, but not ewnough to know the truth.
And since we are not rational or logical beings, do we really have the ability to judge whether or not God exists, or even is just and good? If we can't even bring ourselves to do the things that we know are good, who are we to judge God? We cannot know truth through reason, we can only know it through revelation. We can, however, compare things that claim to be revealed from God and see if they fit the world around us.
But anyway, since we lack enough reason and logic to see the truth, we are incapable of seeing the end result of suffering. It sucks, I know. But I think that is the way that it is. But we do not suffer without meaning. I will say some more about that later.
Before I end up writing a novel, I want to hear what you think of what I've said this far.
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If so, then we need to talk about human logic and reason. Do you think we, as humans, have enough logic and reason to determine what is right and wrong? I'm going to guess that you will say yes. So let's think about it a little bit. Socrates believed in a monistic soul. This means that in every person, their emotions, reason, and will all resided as a unified entity that he called the "soul" of a person. And because the will, emotions, and reason were all together in the soul, all a person had to do was figure out what was right and they would do it. In fact, they would be irresistibly compelled to do what they thought was right. Do you think that this is correct? I personally do not think Socrates was right and here's why. Have you ever known what was right to do and you didn't do it for any number of reasons? Have you known anyone else who knew that something was the right thing to do and they did the opposite? Everyone is like this to some degree. We all know that world hunger is bad, we all have the means to end it, and we don't do it. Socrates was wrong. Our will, reason, and emotions are not united in the soul. We are not truly logical or rational beings because most of the time we do not do what we know is right. We are, on occasion, capable of some level of reasoning, but not ewnough to know the truth.
And since we are not rational or logical beings, do we really have the ability to judge whether or not God exists, or even is just and good? If we can't even bring ourselves to do the things that we know are good, who are we to judge God? We cannot know truth through reason, we can only know it through revelation. We can, however, compare things that claim to be revealed from God and see if they fit the world around us.
Where is the thousands of Likes button!!!!!! I like that post so very much. That is what I meant when I said when I observed how humans operate (especially my self), I felt the Qur'an's truth, because I realized my standards of righteousness are so flawed, I don't even do the things I think are good myself!, and God spoke things about this nature I didn't even want to subconsciously admit even though at first I resented what God is saying it made feel he i saying I am full of it, but I realized I so am! lol.
You worded it so well! I hope you will carry on.