What is modesty according to the Quran?

johan

Salam,

I have a question on the concept of modesty according to Quran.

There are a couple of verses that intrigues me.
Sahih International
And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity , O people of the household, and to purify you with purification.

The word display here translated from the term (the term root is baraja).
Another verse that uses the same root is
Sahih International
Wherever you may be, death will overtake you, even if you should be within towers of lofty construction. But if good comes to them, they say, "This is from Allah "; and if evil befalls them, they say, "This is from you." Say, "All are from Allah." So what is with those people that they can hardly understand any statement?

Here towers of lofty construction (fortified towers) ( &#1613 would have a notion of being covered with glittering ornaments, as in the stars glittering
Sahih International
And We have placed within the heaven great stars and have beautified it for the observers.
Sahih International
And We have protected it from every devil expelled

great stars (&#1575 were the reason for the expulsion of the devils..

so, wouldn't it be correct to conclude that to be in the state of tabarruj is to be in the state of fortified/covered/concelead the way it is described in the mentioned verses?

another verse that we could reinterpret on the concept of modesty is the following verse
Sahih International
O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

So by bringing down(taking off) the veil of the women, she is more likely to be identifiable and hence less likely to be mistaken for someone else (abused).

this is in line with the understanding of tabarruj as concealing/fortifying the women, which is not liked.

opinions are welcomed.

Salam
Johan

Wakas

salaa/peace,

you may like
http//learn-about-islam.com/2011/11/01/muslim-women-must-fully-cover-up-in-islam/

DaresBears

I always take it as to cover your sexual or sexually attractive parts. The Qur'an is quite clear on covering the breasts, and to lengthen your garment seems like, to cover your legs, your stomach and hips, and obviously your groin. I think it is vague in this area so that Muslims can adapt to the culture they live in, God is saying, make sure you always cover your breasts, but otherwise be modest by the standards of the society you live in. Because modesty is subjective and there is no defined length given.

johan

salaa/peace,

you may like
http//learn-about-islam.com/2011/11/01/muslim-women-must-fully-cover-up-in-islam/

Salam Wakas,

Thanks for the link. )
I'd like to add to the articles argument with a caveat of assuming CMIIW that the Meccans were pagans who didn't adhere to a strict dress code than that of the Medinas who AFAIK were people of the book(especially na9aara/christians and yahood/jewish)..

Now, with that assumption in mind it's only natural that the tendencies would be to follow that which what the majority were adhering to.. So when a new prophet came to introduce reforms to the religion, and one such reforms was that of dress code and others among were qibla(direction of prayers) etc, you'd expect some resistance or reluctance from the old establishment..
And this is why the Quran in the verses after the call to put down the jilbaab is against the hypocrites..
"O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful. (59) If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is disease and those who spread rumors in al-Madinah do not cease, We will surely incite you against them; then they will not remain your neighbors therein except for a little. (60)"

a person who look at a women who has her crown seen by men can only have a disease if that person looks at her in a flirty lustful way...it wouldn't have been meaningful to mention "those whose hearts is disease" if that women would to conceal her crown would it? but because with this command the women is told to show herself so that she may be more identifiable..

I have a feeling that the direction is to get back to simplicity with a minimalistic approach..
One wise man has it
?The greatest ideas are the simplest.?

I always take it as to cover your sexual or sexually attractive parts. The Qur'an is quite clear on covering the breasts, and to lengthen your garment seems like, to cover your legs, your stomach and hips, and obviously your groin. I think it is vague in this area so that Muslims can adapt to the culture they live in, God is saying, make sure you always cover your breasts, but otherwise be modest by the standards of the society you live in. Because modesty is subjective and there is no defined length given.

Salam DaresBears,
I hope to get back to this when I have time inshaAllah..
But I would just say that a minimalistic approach is what I mean by a sufficient amount of concealment..

Wallahua3lam,
Johan

Jafar

I'd like to add to the articles argument with a caveat of assuming CMIIW that the Meccans were pagans who didn't adhere to a strict dress code than that of the Medinas who AFAIK were people of the book(especially na9aara/christians and yahood/jewish)..

I do think the assumption is incorrect.. the pagan arabs did adhere to a 'very strict dress code'..
A source written around 200 AD wrote this
"Arabia's heathen females will be your judges, who cover not only the head, but the face also, so entirely, that they are content, with one eye free, to enjoy rather half the light than to prostitute the entire face."
http//www.tertullian.org/anf/anf04/anf04-09.htm#17_4

Now, with that assumption in mind it's only natural that the tendencies would be to follow that which what the majority were adhering to..

The main objective is "Safety"...

So when a new prophet came to introduce reforms to the religion,

I think Muhammad didn't invent any religion..

and one such reforms was that of dress code and others among were qibla(direction of prayers) etc, you'd expect some resistance or reluctance from the old establishment..

Mmmm.. no....
The resistance was mainly due to Muhammad's telling the people that those gods and it's priests are fake..
Which threaten the main source of $$$ of the priests and their relevant political backers...
As it's always the case up until now..

Salam / Peace

es

DaresBears,

Well, what's sexually attractive. To me, I am not bothered about a man's groin area or a six pack etc. However, a strong neck, which I can bite generously into, tanned forearms, with just the right amount and type of hair distribution and a bit of hair showing from the top of his unbuttoned shirt, so I know that he has a gorgeously hairy chest. That's my criteria for my husband.

Kaiokenred

I always take it as to cover your sexual or sexually attractive parts. The Qur'an is quite clear on covering the breasts, and to lengthen your garment seems like, to cover your legs, your stomach and hips, and obviously your groin. I think it is vague in this area so that Muslims can adapt to the culture they live in, God is saying, make sure you always cover your breasts, but otherwise be modest by the standards of the society you live in. Because modesty is subjective and there is no defined length given.

I wouldn't be so sure. At least I don't believe it. The fact that the Quran is clear on something. I only believe in one translations and it isn't even full yet and could still possibly improve what it has so never think something's clear especially since hadiths have corrupted a lot of meanings.

johan

I do think the assumption is incorrect.. the pagan arabs did adhere to a 'very strict dress code'..
A source written around 200 AD wrote this
"Arabia's heathen females will be your judges, who cover not only the head, but the face also, so entirely, that they are content, with one eye free, to enjoy rather half the light than to prostitute the entire face."
http//www.tertullian.org/anf/anf04/anf04-09.htm#17_4

Salam / Peace

Thanks for the reference.
I've read somehwere in the sunans that the pagan arab had some festivities that involved (semi)naked rituals. And that in those times the prophet was put to sleep by Allah SWT. (if someone has some reference on it that would be great).

@Kaiokenred
I agree in some degree, i think it's more of our interpretation hasn't been perfected. I do believe that the Quran is bayyin (definitive).

wallahua3lam
Salam

Jafar

Thanks for the reference.
I've read somehwere in the sunans that the pagan arab had some festivities that involved (semi)naked rituals. And that in those times the prophet was put to sleep by Allah SWT. (if someone has some reference on it that would be great).

Never heard of it.. but it's quite possible...

As different priest erghh i mean different god might requires different rites and offerings..
There are priests god which requires the rites to be performed 'all covered' and there are god which requires everyone to be naked...

Perhaps this specific deity does requires nudity
Manaf (Arabic &#8206
The statue of Manaf was caressed by women, but when they had their periods they were not allowed to be near it
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_mythology

And that's why those women who are in their periods are not allowed to perform the rites..
A habit which they keep practicing up until now...

"Plus Ca Change Plus C'est La Meme Chose"
The more it change the more it stays the same..

And I will not be surprised either if there are rites which involves an offering of a female virgin (for some time) to be consummated by the priest erggh.. i mean by the god through the priest...

Salam / Peace

es

Oh, and hands! How could I forget the hands! I also like hands which look adventurous.

And eyes too-windows, soul and all that jazz.

Would my immodest mind mean that a man must cover up all his essentials in front of me? I imagine all men would look like the "Student of Allah" then. Tasty!