Worship : A misleading translation

Wakas

peace/salaam,

Whilst I agree with your comments on 3bd, you may wish to read the following analysis on SJD

http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html

Kaiokenred

Salam ,

A'bud Allah , translated to English as worship Allah is not the correct clear translation , also the book known as Tafasser Al-Qura'n/ explanation of the Quran used and explain this word wrongly to the people , they mostly explain and read the imperative verb " A'bud " as worship mean pray , mean bow down and prostrate and glorify Allah and call upon him , while they are only a part from the whole meaning of " A'bud "

The Quran distinguish clearly between the verbs bow down/ Ar'ka , prostrate/ As'jud and the verb A'bud .

22 - 77
22 - 77 O you who have believed, bow and prostrate and A'bud your Rabb and do good - that you may succeed.

bow down is fallen down into your knee and not bowing in 90 degree angle while you are still standing up , to read the movement of " Ar'ka " read the following
38 - 24

38 -24 said, "He has certainly wronged you in demanding your ewe to his ewes. And indeed, many associates oppress one another, except for those who believe and do righteous deeds - and few are they." And Dwd became certain that We had tried him, and he asked forgiveness of his Rabb and fell down bowing and turned in repentance .

16 - 26

16 - 26 Those before them had already plotted, but Allah came at their building from the foundations, so the roof fell upon them from above them, and the punishment came to them from where they did not perceive.

does the roof moved down for 90 degree or does he fell down to the ground , certinly "fell /kharra " mean fallout into the ground , so when Dwd fell down bowing he fallout into the ground into his knee , he did not do the 90 degree inclination and then stand up he fell down straight away.

prostrate/ As'jud is the inclination of the upper body from up to down , the movement of "Prostrates/ S'jud " can be done after bowing down into your knee or while standing up

2 - 58

2 - 58 And when We said, "Enter this city and eat from it wherever you will in abundance, and enter the gate ( while you are) prostrating and say, 'Relieve us of our burdens.' We will forgive your sins for you, and We will increase the doers of good ."

how come they enter the gate while prostrating , according to the Tafasser book explanation they should enter while they are rubbing their forehead with the ground , entering a gate while you are prostrating would simply mean inclining you upper body down , its the same movement known wrongly as "Bowing R'ka "

same as we saw previously about "Bowing down / Rukkaa " in many verses the word "Prostrating / S'jada " come after the movement of "fell /kharra " , witch mean that the the imperative verb prostrate/ As'jud mean fallout into the ground , and then incline the upper body down to the ground , the quran explain this movement clearly by the following description

16 - 48

16 - 48 Have they not observed all things that Allah hath created, how their shadows incline to the right and to the left, making prostration unto Allah, and they are lowly?

The movement of prostration is the same as the movement of the shadow of an abject .

17 - 107

17 - 107 Say, "Believe in it or do not believe. Indeed, those who were given knowledge before it - when it is recited upon them, they fall to their chins in prostration

So simply fall to their chins in prostrating mean inclining to the angle where the chin is down to the ground , there is no mentioning that t(he forehead should touch the ground , the verse 48 - 29 was wrongly explained

48 - 29 Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating , seeking bounty from Allah and pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Taourat. And their description in the Anjil is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward.

There is diffrence between " on / fi " and "Above /Aala " , " on / fi " something mean withing , inside through etc , "Above /Aala " mean on the top of , something you can see and touche above something you can see and touch . the expression find in verse 48 - 29 Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration is from the first meaning , the mark that are on their faces from prostration is on all the face as you can remark not a black dot in the forehead , if the meaning was about signaling a dot mark in the forehead the Quran would use the word "Above /Aala " instead of " on / fi " , so simply the mark that is on the face as a trace from prostration is due to the long concentration / fixation while the believers are in state of "prostration/ Al-sujud"

39 - 9

39 - 9 Is one who is "Qanet / fixed" during periods of the night, prostrating and standing , fearing the Hereafter and hoping for the mercy of his Lord, ? Say, "Are those who know equal to those who do not know?" Only they will remember people of understanding.

so the mark on the faces is due to the trace caused by long period where the believers are fixed / concentrated while prostrating and is not due to the forehead touching the ground.

I highly signal that both action / movement bow down and prostrate/ As'jud has no value or meaning without the reasoning and the action of the heart / , when the believers used to prostrate when they heard the verses of the Quran its because their heart repent to it its a sign movement of submitting to Allah , they acknowledge and uphold the meaning and they accepted it upon them wither as a information about the unseen or as structures or command decreed-ed above them , so the point is that bow down and prostrate/ As'jud are not a blind movement and this is why there is no counting while doing them as counting is simply against and disturbing the concept of "Fixed state / Al-Qonout " and "concentration / Al-Khouchoa? " both concept are recommended to be achieved .

So what does A'bud stand for

First i would say that there is no English verb to correctly translate the verb A'bud to it , the close translation would be To serve by following the recommended instructions , A'bud Allah simply mean serve Allah by following and upholding what he has sent down to you , this is clearly understood from the verse

36 - 60/61

Did I not charge you, O ye sons of Adam, that ye Serve/Follow not the Chaitan ( Satan / devil )- Lo! he is your clear enemy -
And that you Serve Me / Follow Me? This is a straight path

the verse asked the believers to A'bud Allah / Serve/Follow Allah and it show them how by saying This is a straight path .

What the "this is" in 36-61 is pointing to and what is the straight path , we have to look at the verse 6-153 and 6-126

6-153
6-153 And this is My path, which is straight, so follow it; and do not follow ways, for you will be separated from His way. This has He instructed you that you may become righteous.

6-126
6-126 And this is the path of your Lord, straight. We have detailed the verses for a people who remember.

6-155
6-155 And this is a scripture We have sent it down blessed, so follow it and do right that you may receive mercy.

A'bud Allah / Serve/Follow Allah is following his straight path witch is the scripture anyone who is upholding any command ,statement , instruction from the scripture and activating it in the social life or his own life he is about He is Serve/Following Allah / Ya'bud Allah / , from this understanding the command bow down/ Ar'ka , prostrate/ As'jud become only a part from the major command A'bud Allah / Serve/Follow Allah witch include all the commands statements and instructions find in the scripture.

This understanding will be much clearer by knowing what we do not to follow/ serve

16 - 36
16 - 36 And verily We have raised in every nation a messenger, (proclaiming) Serve / Follow Allah and shun Al-Taghut ( corrupted political leaders , president , governors , kings , emperors , transgressors , corrupted Constitution , laws , legislation...etc ) . Then some of them (there were) whom Allah guided, and some of them (there were) upon whom error had just hold. Do but travel in the land and see the nature of the consequence for the deniers!

39 - 17
39 - 17 But those who have avoided Taghut ( corrupted political leaders , president , governors , kings , emperors , transgressors , corrupted Constitution , laws , legislation...etc ), lest they serve / follow it, and turned back to Allah - for them are good tidings. So give good tidings to My servants.

4 - 60

4 - 60 Have you not seen those who claim to have believed in what was revealed to you, , and what was revealed before you? They wish to refer legislation to Taghut ( corrupted political leaders , president , governors , kings , emperors , transgressors , corrupted Constitution , laws , legislation...etc ), while they were commanded to reject it; and Chaitan / Satan wishes to lead them far astray.

A'bud Allah / Serve/Follow Allah in the contrary recommend rejecting Taghut , mean rejecting serving and following all ( corrupted political leaders , president , governors , kings , emperors , transgressors , corrupted Constitution , corrupted laws , corrupted legislation , corrupted corporations...etc )

so the famous verse 51-56 become clear
51-56
51-56 And I did not create the jinn and Inss ( both are mankind) except to Serve/follow Me.

One more major thing to add is that they wrongly associate only mosques with A'bud Allah / Serve/Follow Allah whereas the places where to A'bud Allah / Serve/Follow Allah to be activated are Tribunals , Parliament , Government chambers , states chambers , what is done today in tribunals and parliament used to be done in the past at " Al-masajed / Mosques" where the name of Allah ( proclaiming his authority ) is mentioned , the name of Allah is mentioned doesn't mean reciting his name but it mean that the judgement the rules the instructions the legislation all is to be pronounced under his authority that's mean that only the judgement ,the rules , the laws , the instructions , the legislation that Allah has confirmed in the scripture is to be used under his name( proclaiming his authority ) , and the judgement is announced under Allah's name the believers prostrate . the place where to announce laws , judgement , legislation is the same place where prostration is to be done. there is nothing in the system of Allah called mosque and then tribunal and parliament etc , in today's life you will find in many tribunals in the world the judgement or laws is pronounced under the name of the king of the country or the governor or in the name of the republic etc.
so this is the correct understanding of the verse 2114 and

2-114 And who are more unjust than those who prevent the name of Allah ( proclaiming his authority ) from being mentioned in His mosques and strive toward their destruction. It is not for them to enter them except in fear. For them in this world is disgrace, and they will have in the Hereafter a great punishment.

22-40
22-40 those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, "Our Rabb is Allah." And were it not that Allah checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of Allah ( proclaiming his authority ) is much mentioned. And Allah will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might.

Mentioning the name of Allah upon the livestock is simply acknowledging the authorization from Allah to kill the animal , so mentioning Allah's name upon them mean they have the authorization from Allah to kill them as it's not a simple thing at all to kill an animal.
5-4
They ask you, , what has been made lawful for them. Say, "Lawful for you are good foods and what you have trained of hunting animals which you train as Allah has taught you. So eat of what they catch for you, and mention the name of Allah upon it ( proclaiming the authorization from Allah ) , and fear Allah." Indeed, Allah is swift in account.

Please learn the meaning between Legislation and Law. Also accept the fact that Law does not need inventing ( legislation ). Allah has created the perfect Law and it doesn't acknowledge such bullshit as governments

cleanfox5982

Yet when you point out that the 'masjid' is basically parliament, that's really great! These verses are a lot clearer now and make much more sense in reference to each other. We don't see people entering 'mosques' and preventing God from being mentioned.

This is the heart of the meaning i was trying to explain in my previous post

mosques are the place where the judgement between people is established , look at this
38-21/22
38-21 And has there come to you the news of the adversaries, when they climbed over the wall of the " Al-Mihrab"
38-22 When they entered upon Dwd and he was alarmed by them? They said, "Fear not. two adversaries, one of whom has wronged the other, so judge between us with truth "Al-Hak" and do not exceed and guide us to the sound path.

These two adversaries come to Dwd to judge between them while he was in the place called " Al-Mihrab" , who was mentioned being in that place too

3-39
3-39 So the " Al-Malayka" called him while he was standing " Yussali" praying in the " Al-Mihrab" , "Indeed, Allah gives you good tidings of Yahya , confirming a word from Allah and honorable, abstaining , and a prophet from among the righteous."

Zakaria was standing praying in the same place , in the " Al-Mihrab" , i most likely think that the " Al-Mihrab" is a chamber inside the "Al-Masjid Al-Haram" / the Restricted Sanctuary where the judgement between people is made , and where the laws , rules , announcements , constitution are pronounced or banned under the authority of Allah , and the only right place in the earth mentioned in the Quran were people have the authorization to kill the 8 pair of live stock by pronouncing his name upon them , mean having the authorization from him.

Parliament , Tribunal/ Court , and all constitution chambers and government places or assembly are a places of servitude even if the people do not do the prostration physically in these places they are doing it at the level of the heart , everyone who accept this set of constitution he is about following the one or the ones who settled it up this is exactly the meaning of "servitude " , you accept the constitution over you then you are about serving following the people who make it , in deep you are about "Ta?bodohoum " , and this is exactly what the statement in many verse in the Quran teach you to do not .

And this is exactley why some of the poeple who set laws and constituitions will be surprised when they will know this fact in the hearafter , they will say

10-28 / 29

10-28 And , the Day We will gather them all together - then We will say to those who " Yuchrikoun" by Allah , " your place, you and your 'partners.' " Then We will separate them, and their "partners" will say, "You did not used to serve us ,
10-29 And sufficient is Allah as a witness between us and you that we were of your servitude unaware.".

Everyone or every group of people who are making a law , a set of constitutions ruling by them the people and asking people to follow them and if they break these laws or constitution they 'll get punished , or if they follow and serve them they get benefits . By this work these people are about claiming them self a "Ilah" a "Diety " over people .

because its as simple as this everyone who make constitutions , laws , rules and ask people to follow it wither by force or by benefits and who break them or refuse them will get punished is simply claiming himself a "Diety / Ilah" even if he say i am a citizen elected or am a human or whatever , and even if people do not bow or prostrate front of him The difference between these people (kings , Elites , presidents , Judges , Legislature , Parliaments ...etc) and between the Prophets or the people who judge by the scriptures is that the last ones

They do not create constitutions , laws , rules by them self , they only follow what was sent and written on the scripture. 10-15 / 25-5 / 16-103 / 11-35 / 46-8

They do not force the people to follow it " there is no compulsion in the system"Al-Deen" 2-256

The role of the one/ones who judge with the scripture is only to judge between people not control them . 88-22 / 6-104 / 11-86

The one/ones who judge by the scripture get no payment from anyone , and the people who are judged between them by the scripture give no money to anyone. 6-90 / 11-29 / 42-23 / 11-51

The judgement that is on the scripture is only over the ones who accepted it freely with no compulsion as individuals or as a community . 5-42

They do not force people to pay any tax , Al-Zakah ( Charity ) is to be given with no compulsion 2-256

They do not open other borders with force and claim the authority over them 2-256

There are more many , maybe in other post.

good_logic

Peace Alkitab.

It s me again.

I like reading your posts. I also call" following anybody else " rebellion against the creator. You are on the right track in your last post. We should only follow the rules of GOD.
Check http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/democracy-v-god-s-system/

Peace.

mmkhan

mosques are the place where the judgement between people is established , look at this
38-21/22
38-21 And has there come to you the news of the adversaries, when they climbed over the wall of the " Al-Mihrab"
38-22 When they entered upon Dwd and he was alarmed by them? They said, "Fear not. two adversaries, one of whom has wronged the other, so judge between us with truth "Al-Hak" and do not exceed and guide us to the sound path.

These two adversaries come to Dwd to judge between them while he was in the place called " Al-Mihrab" , who was mentioned being in that place too

3-39
3-39 So the " Al-Malayka" called him while he was standing " Yussali" praying in the " Al-Mihrab" , "Indeed, Allah gives you good tidings of Yahya , confirming a word from Allah and honorable, abstaining , and a prophet from among the righteous."

Zakaria was standing praying in the same place , in the " Al-Mihrab" , i most likely think that the " Al-Mihrab" is a chamber inside the "Al-Masjid Al-Haram" / the Restricted Sanctuary where the judgement between people is made , and where the laws , rules , announcements , constitution are pronounced or banned under the authority of Allah , and the only right place in the earth mentioned in the Quran were people have the authorization to kill the 8 pair of live stock by pronouncing his name upon them , mean having the authorization from him.

Salaam brother AlKitab,

I was thinking of 3821 since few days about Al-Mihraab, the only problem I have is whether those two persons climbed the wall of Al-Mihraab and jumped inside or jumped outside of Al-Mihraab?

It will make a lot of difference.

And I don't agree with your understanding of 339 bro. Because the word used in it is which does not mean "Salaat or Prayer". The same word is used in 3343 as except tashdeed on initial "ya".

Please take a look at my post in the given link, inshaAllah you will understand why I disagree with your understanding.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602945.msg284741#msg284741

May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

cleanfox5982

Salaam brother AlKitab,

I was thinking of 3821 since few days about Al-Mihraab, the only problem I have is whether those two persons climbed the wall of Al-Mihraab and jumped inside or jumped outside of Al-Mihraab?

It will make a lot of difference.

mmKhan

Salam Brother mmkhan ,

I noticed i made a mistake the two adversaries climbed over the wall of the " Al-Mihrab " , so the " Al-Mihrab " is the whole building not a place or a chamber inside it .

38-21/22
38-21 And has there come to you the news of the adversaries, when they climbed over the wall of the " Al-Mihrab"
38-22 When they entered upon Dwd and he was alarmed by them? They said, "Fear not. two adversaries, one of whom has wronged the other, so judge between us with truth "Al-Hak" and do not exceed and guide us to the sound path.

cleanfox5982

peace/salaam,

Whilst I agree with your comments on 3bd, you may wish to read the following analysis on SJD

http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html

Salam Brother Wakas ,

Thank you for sharing this with me . there are things that i personally do agree with and some that i do not.

I basically do not agree about some of the metaphorical idiomatic explanation / interpretation given to the term "Sujada " in some of the verse mentioned in the link you did provided , my main understanding of this basic term is that whenever "Sujada / prostrate " mentioned for knowledgeable beings " " then it mean two Actions

First Action . Self / Heart / consciousness recognition and acceptance and following what was said as a command or knowledge or news of the unseen.

Second Action physical "Sujud / Prostration" fallout to the ground with the upper body inclining down to the shin , as a physical symbol and reaction to the power made by the first action , a physical symbol to manifest the non arrogance in front of Allah.

This two meaning / understanding is unbreakable as long as we talk about knowledgeable beings " " with bodies from flesh and bones and they do reflect and compare

The second understanding is that whenever "Sujada / prostrate " mentioned for non knowledgeable beings " " then it mean one Action

One Action that the being do follow with no deviation "the creation " and " the commandment "

Indeed, your Rabb is Allah , who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne. He covers the night with the day, chasing it rapidly; and the sun, the moon, and the stars, subservient by His command . Unquestionably, His is the creation and the command; Tabarak Allah , Rabb of the Al-?alimeen.

The sun , The Moon , The Stars , the Trees and all biological and automatic systems non knowledgeable beings do "prostrate " by following the "the creation " and " the commandment " they can't not break the commandment by themselves , they are programmed .

Comment Animals , insects , birds ..and all nation creatures are included in knowledgeable beings " mean all the nation creatures that has the freedom to choose between two actions or more.

The human body and other bodies and all biological and automatic systems are included within non knowledgeable beings

cleanfox5982

Peace Alkitab.

It s me again.

I like reading your posts. I also call" following anybody else " rebellion against the creator. You are on the right track in your last post. We should only follow the rules of GOD.
Check http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/democracy-v-god-s-system/

Peace.

feel free anytime brother handshake

mmkhan

Salaam,

My current understand of AlMihraab is something like this below, I am not sure whether I am correct or wrong in my understanding.

http//s19.postimage.org/cngyip7gj/Al_Mihraab.png

May Allah correct us where we go wrong and increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan

GODsubmitter