Inheritance according to Qur?an

Noon_waalqalami

Peace,

Admin please consider making this thread a sticky; perhaps I'll work on an online calculator.

Internet is filled with challenges to Qur'an inheritance http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkzLeE3GR0E

http//www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/i001.html

No agreement with different traditional islamic schools as with this calculator
http//www.islamicsoftware.org/irth/irth.html mother, 1 sister

Allow reversion 2/5 mother, 3/5 sister
No reversion 1/3 mother, 1/2 sister, Islamic Treasury 1/6

Confusion in earliest traditions Al-Muwatta' of Imam Malik (163 AH)
http//www.sunnipath.com/Library/Hadith/H0001P0027.aspx

27.1 Inheritance of Direct Descendants
A) How much to give when they are exactly two daughters?
2) They assume over two or three+ also means two?

There is confusion with meanings of ikh'watun and al-kallati

Book 011, Number 3937 , Abu Talha reported 'Umar b. al-Khattab (Allah be please..
Abu Talha reported 'Umar b. al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) delivered a sermon on Friday and made a mention of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and he also made a mention of Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) and then said I do not leave behind me any problem more difficult than that of Kalala. I did not refer to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) more repeatedly than in case of the problem of Kalala, and he (the Holy Prophet) never showed more annoyance to me than in regard to this problem, so much so that he struck my chest with his fingers and said 'Umar, does the verse revealed in summer season, at the end of Sura al-Nisa' not suffice you? Hadrat 'Umar (then) said If I live I would give such verdict about (Kalala) that everyone would be able to decide whether he reads the Qur'an or he does not.

When asked simple questions like which amount to give the sister 1/6 (412) or 1/2 (4176)?

They say 412 refers to uterine siblings/half sisters and brothers having the same mother different father to resolve the issue which brought about other confusion when total distribution is greater than the whole and fix was to use algebra to proportionately increase/decrease each amount by a common denominator called al-awl as in this example

husband, mother, 3 uterine brothers, 2 full brothers
1/2 husband + 1/6 mother + 1/3 uterine brothers (412) = 0 full brothers (4176)

The above was a supposed case during the caliphate of Umar ibn al-Khattab who ruled the 2 full brothers got nothing since there was nothing remaining to share. The full brothers argued that even if their father was a donkey or a stone cast into the sea and they had no paternal relationship, they still had the same and equal relationship with the deceased as the uterine brothers through the same mother. Umar reconsidered his ruling and allowed the full brothers to inherit equally with the uterine brothers in the shares thus

1/2 husband + 1/6 mother + 1/3 brothers = 1

Which is incorrect according to Qur'an when there is a spouse siblings get nothing!
They resolve using algebra or al-Awl increase/decrease evenly all shares, example

1 - 1/6x father - 1/6x mother - 1/4x husband - 1/2x daughter = 0
1 - 2/12x father - 2/12x mother - 3/12x husband - 6/12x daughters = 0
1 = 13/12x
12/13 = x use substitution...

1/612/13 = 2/13 father
1/612/13 = 2/13 mother
1/412/13 = 3/13 husband
2/412/13 = 6/13 daughter

Using http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra one can wrongly "fix" surplus/shortfall any combinations.

One of the issues has to do with walad child/son; it can also mean waladun child/born or offspring.

http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm Waw-Lam-Dal = to beget, give birth.

Here are the verses which if followed literally will give precise amounts without excess/shortfall.

411 directs you The God in your children to the male like share the two (feminine) so if be females above two (feminine) so for them two thirds what left and if she was one so for her the half and for their parents to each one from them the sixth from what left if is to person walad/son so if not is to person waladun child/born and heirs person?s parents (if only parents) so to his mother the third so if is to person ikh'watun brothers/siblings (at least one male present) so to his mother the sixth from after a will have made in it or judgment your parents and your children not you know which of them closer to you benefit obligation from The God indeed The God is Knowing Wise

412 and for you half what left your spouse?s if not is for them waladun child/born so if is for them walad/son so for you the fourth from what they left from after a will they made in it or judgment and for them the fourth from what you left if not is to you waladun child/born so if is to you walad/son so for them the eight from what you left from after a will you made in it or judgment and if is a man inherited kallatan (fatherless spouseless) or woman and has a brother or sister so for each one from them the sixth so if they were more from that so they partners in the third from after a will is recommended in it or judgment not harmful a will from The God and The God Knowing Forbearing

4176 they seek your ruling say The God gives you a ruling in al-kallati (the fatherless spouseless) if a person died is not to that person waladun child/born and has sister so for her half what left and he inherits it if not is to her waladun child/born so if were two (feminine) so to them the two thirds from what left and if they were ikh'watun brothers/siblings men/males and females so to the male like share the two (feminine) clarifies The God to you lest you stray and The God in every a thing Knowing

Pay careful attention to see 411 kalala no son; 412 kalala with son; 4176 the kalala no child/born.

Here are all combinations and obviously a sole inheritor gets the whole no need for distribution laws.

1 = mother
1 = father
1 = spouse
1 = daughter/s
1 = son/s
1 = sister/s
1 = brother/s

411 directs you The God in your children to the male like share the two (feminine)

son/s, daughter/s distribute 21 ratio male to female

mother/father, son/s 1/6 5/6
mother/father, 1 daughter 1/2 1/2 no son, mother/father variable
mother/father, 2 daughters 1/3 2/3 (2 daughters variable) all share equally
mother/father, 3 daughters 1/3 2/3

mother, father 1/3 2/3
mother, brother/s 1/6 5/6

mother/father, husband 1/2 1/2
mother/father, wife 3/4 1/4

father, sibling/s 1 0 not kalala has father
husband/wife, sibling/s 1 0 not kalala has spouse

husband/wife, 1 daughter 1/2 1/2 not childless; no son; husband/wife variable
husband/wife, 2 daughters 1/3 2/3
husband/wife, 3 daughters 1/3 2/3

husband, son/s 1/4 3/4

mother, father, husband 1/4 1/4 1/2
mother, father, wife 3/8 3/8 1/4

mother, father, 1 daughter 1/4 1/4 1/2
mother, father, 2 daughters 1/4 1/4 1/2
mother, father, 3 daughters 1/6 1/6 2/3

mother, father, son/s 1/6 1/6 2/3

mother, husband/wife, 1 daughters 1/4 1/4 1/2
mother, husband/wife, 2 daughters 1/4 1/4 1/2
mother, husband/wife, 3 daughters 1/6 1/6 2/3

mother, husband, son/s 1/6 1/4 7/12
mother, wife, son/s 1/6 1/8 17/24

father, husband/wife, 1 daughter 1/4 1/4 1/2
father, husband/wife, 2 daughters 1/4 1/4 1/2
father, husband/wife, 3 daughters 1/6 1/6 2/3

father, husband, son/s 1/6 1/4 7/12
father, wife, son/s 1/6 1/8 17/24

father, daughter/s, son/s 1/6 5/6 children 21 ratio
husband, daughter/s, son/s 1/4 3/4 children 21 ratio

mother, father, husband/wife, 1 daughter 1/6 1/6 1/6 1/2
mother, father, husband/wife, 2 daughters 1/5 1/5 1/5 2/5
mother, father, husband/wife, 3 daughters 1/9 1/9 1/9 2/3

mother, father, husband, son/s 1/6 1/6 1/4 5/12
mother, father, wife, son/s 1/6 1/6 1/8 13/24

mother, husband, daughter/s, son/s 1/6 1/4 7/12 children 21 ratio
mother, wife, daughter/s, son/s 1/6 1/8 17/24 children 21 ratio

father, husband, daughter/s, son/s 1/6 1/4 7/12 children 21 ratio
father, wife, daughter/s, son/s 1/6 1/8 17/24 children 21 ratio

mother, father, husband, daughter/s, son/s 1/6 1/6 1/4 5/12 children 21 ratio
mother, father, wife, daughter/s, son/s 1/6 1/6 1/8 13/24 children 21 ratio

mother, father, daughter/s, son/s 1/6 1/6 2/3 children 21 ratio

411 kalala fatherless spouseless no son (sibling/s variable)
mother, 1 daughter, sister/s 1/4 1/2 1/4
mother, 1 daughter, brother/s 1/6 1/2 1/3
mother, 1 daughter, sister/s, brother/s 1/6 1/2 1/3 siblings share equally

mother, 2 daughters, sister/s 1/4 1/2, 1/4 each 1/4 1/4
mother, 2 daughters, brother/s 1/6 5/6 daughters siblings share equally
mother, 2 daughters, sister/s, brother/s 1/6 5/6 daughters siblings share equally

mother, 3 daughters, sister/s 1/6 2/3 1/6
mother, 3 daughters, brother/s 1/6 2/3 1/6
mother, 3 daughters, sister/s, brother/s 1/6 2/3 1/3 siblings share equally

1 daughter, sister/s 1/2 1/2
1 daughter, brother/s 1/2 1/2
1 daughter, sister/s, brother/s 1/2 1/2 siblings share equally

2 daughters, sister/s daughters siblings share equally
2 daughters, brother/s daughters siblings share equally
2 daughters, sister/s, brother/s daughters siblings share equally

3 daughters, sister/s 2/3, 2/9 each 1/3
3 daughters, brother/s 2/3, 2/9 each 1/3
3 daughters, sister/s, brother/s 2/3 1/3 siblings share equally

412 kalala fatherless spouseless has son (sibling/s fixed 1/6 or 1/3)
son/s, sister 5/6 1/6
son/s, brother 5/6 1/6
son/s, sisters 5/6 1/3
son/s, brothers5/6 1/3
son/s, sister/s, brother/s 2/3 1/3 siblings share equally

daughter/s, son/s, sister 5/6 children 21 ratio 1/6
daughter/s, son/s, brother 5/6 children 21 ratio 1/6
daughter/s, son/s, sisters 2/3 children 21 ratio 1/3
daughter/s, son/s, brothers2/3 children 21 ratio 1/3
daughter/s, son/s, sister/s, brother/s 2/3 children 21 ratio 1/3 siblings share equally

mother, son/s, sister 1/6 2/3 1/6
mother, son/s, brother 1/6 2/3 1/6
mother, son/s, sisters 1/6 1/2 1/3
mother, son/s, brothers1/6 1/2 1/3
mother, son/s, sister/s, brother/s 1/6 1/2 1/3 siblings share equally

mother, daughter/s, son/s, sister 1/6 2/3 children 21 ratio 1/6
mother, daughter/s, son/s, brother 1/6 2/3 children 21 ratio 1/6
mother, daughter/s, son/s, sisters 1/6 1/2 children 21 ratio 1/3
mother, daughter/s, son/s, brothers1/6 1/2 children 21 ratio 1/3
mother, daughter/s, son/s, sister/s, brother/s 1/6 1/2 children 21 ratio 1/3 siblings share equally

4176 kalala fatherless spouseless no child/born
sister/s, brother/s 21 ratio male to female

mother, sister/s, brother/s 1/6 5/6 siblings 21 ratio

mother, 1 sister 1/2 1/2
mother, 2 sisters 1/3 2/3
mother, 3 sisters 1/4 3/4 unstated/variable distribute equally

4176... clarifies The God to you lest you stray and The God in every a thing Knowing

mirjamnur

Salam
check out this link
http//quransmessage.com/articles/inheritance%20FM3.htm
peace

Noon_waalqalami

Salam
check out this link
http//quransmessage.com/articles/inheritance%20FM3.htm

Peace mirjamnur,

Have you tested a few examples using the above site?
e.g. woman leaves $1,000 husband and 3 daughters

http//quransmessage.com/articles/inheritance%20FM3.htm

Is the deceased a male = No
Is there a spouse, parents or any descents = Yes
Are parents still alive = No
Is there a husband = Yes
Are there any children = Yes (husband receives 1/4)

Are there only daughters = Yes
Is there only one daughter = No (daughters share from 2/3)

1/4 + 2/3 = 11/12, who gets remaining 1/12 or $1000 x 1/12 = $83.33?

Let's also try woman leaves $1,000 husband, 3 daughters, mother, father

1/4 husband $250
2/3 daughters $1000 x 2/3 = $666.67
1/6 mother $1000 x 1/6 = $166.67
1/6 father $1000 x 1/6 = $166.67

= 1 + 1/4 or $1,250 too much or short $250!

Do you now see the problem with all these sites and translations?

mirjamnur

Salam noon waalqalami
Caught! i didn't ... yes, and I see your problem. and I will, so God will, now study the matter .i will post, if I could draw any new conclusions.
Thank you for your input the topic is very important -r better if we leave nothing behind no dispute ... ;D
(but please make contact with the author from the site and look , what he will answer you.)
peace )

mirjamnur

Peace mirjamnur,

Have you tested a few examples using the above site?
e.g. woman leaves $1,000 husband and 3 daughters

http//quransmessage.com/articles/inheritance%20FM3.htm

Is the deceased a male = No
Is there a spouse, parents or any descents = Yes
Are parents still alive = No
Is there a husband = Yes
Are there any children = Yes (husband receives 1/4)

Are there only daughters = Yes
Is there only one daughter = No (daughters share from 2/3)

1/4 + 2/3 = 11/12, who gets remaining 1/12 or $1000 x 1/12 = $83.33?

Let's also try woman leaves $1,000 husband, 3 daughters, mother, father

1/4 husband $250
2/3 daughters $1000 x 2/3 = $666.67
1/6 mother $1000 x 1/6 = $166.67
1/6 father $1000 x 1/6 = $166.67

= 1 + 1/4 or $1,250 too much or short $250!

Do you now see the problem with all these sites and translations?

e.g. woman leaves $1,000 husband and 3 daughters

husband 1/4= 3/12
parents 1/6=2./12
daughters =7/12= 21/36 everyone 7/36

when she leaves husband and 2 daughters and 1 son
husband 1/4
parents 1/6
daughters and son 7/12 =28/48
daugther 1= 7/48
daughter 2=7/48
son 14/48

when she leaves husband and 3 daughters and one son
husband 1/4=3/12 (250$)
parents 1/6= 2/12 (166.66$) the rest will be 7/12
three daughters and the son together 7/12= 21/36
daughters 2/3= 14/36
son= 1/3= 7/36

Salam what you think about? peace

Pleiades

Salam
check out this link
http//quransmessage.com/articles/inheritance%20FM3.htm
peace )

Peace Mirjumanur - Thanks for the link. I think it is an honest effort. To be fair to the author of the site, he does seem to recognise that there is room for discussion and ain't a case of my way or the highway type presentation.

I noted the opening sentence on the top of the diagram.

"The illustration below attempts to best capture the inheritance directives in the Quran. It is left for the reader to consult the verses mentioned and scrutinise them with a view to understand the topic deeply. The illustration merely intends to provide an overview and a cue for further study"

Inheritance is a really important and really involved topic. I reckon it always has been. I look forward to it being discussed here and agree with Noon waalqalami that it should be considered as a sticky! I'd like to work out my own inheritance properly according to the Quran! Peace

Noon_waalqalami

e.g. woman leaves $1,000 husband and 3 daughters

husband 1/4= 3/12
parents 1/6=2./12
daughters =7/12= 21/36 everyone 7/36

Peace mirjamnur,

You gave the 3 daughters 7/12 and did not follow the instructions in Qur'an?

411 so if be females above two (feminine) so for them two thirds

2/3 = 2/9 x 3 daughters
1/3 = 1/9 husband + 2/9 parents (1/9 mother + 1/9 father)

411 to parents 1/6 if walad/son = false
412 to husband 1/2 if no child/born = false; 1/4 if walad/son = false

Therefore, in this case, husband and parents are unstated or variable who share remaining 1/3 equally.

when she leaves husband and 2 daughters and 1 son
husband 1/4
parents 1/6
daughters and son 7/12 =28/48
daugther 1= 7/48
daughter 2=7/48
son 14/48

411 directs you The God in your children to the male like share the two (feminine)
411 and for their parents to each one from them the sixth from what left if is to person walad/son
412 so if is for them walad/son so for you the fourth

1/4 or 3/12 husband
1/3 or 4/12 parents = 1/6 mother + 1/6 father
......... 5/12 children = 5/24 son + 5/24 daughters (5/48 x 2 daughters); if children mixed 21 ratio male to female

when she leaves husband and 3 daughters and one son
husband 1/4=3/12 (250$)
parents 1/6= 2/12 (166.66$) the rest will be 7/12
three daughters and the son together 7/12= 21/36
daughters 2/3= 14/36
son= 1/3= 7/36

See above 1/4 husband; 1/3 parents (1/6 each); 5/12 children = 2/12 son + 3/12 three daughters, 1/12 each

Salam what you think about?

Follow exactly as stated in Qur'an and you'll be fine; perhaps be a bit more neat/orderly as well.

Inheritance is a really important and really involved topic. I reckon it always has been. I look forward to it being discussed here and agree with Noon waalqalami that it should be considered as a sticky! I'd like to work out my own inheritance properly according to the Quran! Peace

Peace Pleiades,

Yes this topic should be a sticky; it teaches logic, how to read Qur'an using cross-reference and context to extrapolate certain words and to take the best non-contradicting meaning.

Noon_waalqalami

Peace,

Most reciters have the correct sequence for verse 411 walad/son followed by waladun child/born.

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4tyaki83aY
Scroll to beginning of verse 411 at 0429 minute

412 (0545 minute) they have incorrect and reversed walad/son followed by waladaun child/born.

The above is an obvious contradiction; the husband cannot receive both 1/2 and 1/4!

1/2 husband if no son
1/4 husband if child/born

If only daughters (no son = true) 1/2 husband
If only daughters (if child = true) 1/4 husband

4176 11237 minute, most have 1st correct if no waladun child/born, 2nd is incorrect if no walad/son.

mirjamnur

Salam

411 directs you The God in your children to the male like share the two (feminine) so if be females above two (feminine) so for them two thirds what left and if she was one so for her the half and for their parents to each one from them the sixth from what left if is to person walad/son so if not is to person waladun child/born and heirs person?s parents (if only parents) so to his mother the third so if is to person ikh'watun brothers/siblings (at least one male present) so to his mother the sixth from after a will have made in it or judgment your parents and your children not you know which of them closer to you benefit obligation from The God indeed The God is Knowing Wise

412 and for you half what left your spouse?s if not is for them waladun child/born so if is for them walad/son so for you the fourth from what they left from after a will they made in it or judgment and for them the fourth from what you left if not is to you waladun child/born so if is to you walad/son so for them the eight from what you left from after a will you made in it or judgment and if is a man inherited kallatan (fatherless spouseless) or woman and has a brother or sister so for each one from them the sixth so if they were more from that so they partners in the third from after a will is recommended in it or judgment not harmful a will from The God and The God Knowing Forbearing

You gave the 3 daughters 7/12 and did not follow the instructions in Qur'an?

411 so if be females above two (feminine) so for them two thirds

411 directs you The God in your children to the male like share the two (feminine) so if be females above two (feminine) so for them two thirds what left and if she was one so for her the half

Because i understand normal case male and female =male double from female, when more then two for them 2/3
abnormal only female they become all= the rest all the 7/12

411 to parents 1/6 if walad/son = false

yes i see, to each from them 1/6 that will be 2/6 thats right? or 4/6?

4.12...so if is for them walad/son so for you the fourth from what they left
why you say
1/4 if walad/son = false
? walad here means not children? why you translate it one time with son and other time with children?

Follow exactly as stated in Qur'an and you'll be fine; perhaps be a bit more neat/orderly as well.

isA i will try it
the best solution to give in the lifetime much sadaqa , then we will not have anything to study ;D
peace

Noon_waalqalami

Peace mirjamnur,

why you say ? walad here means not children? why you translate it one time with son and other time with children?

412 and for you half what left your spouse?s if not is for them waladun child/born so if is for them walad/son so for you the fourth

The above is the only non-contradicting meaning. Example case husband, 3 daughters

These are all the possibilities ...

412 1/2 if no son (true), 1/4 if child (true) both true its not known what to give husband 1/2 or 1/4?
412 1/2 if no son (true), 1/4 if son (false) 1/2 husband + 2/3 daughters = 1 + 1/6 or 1/6 shortfall?

412 1/2 if no child (false), 1/4 if child (true) 1/4 husband + 2/3 daughters = 11/12 or 1/12 excess?
412 1/2 if no child (false), 1/4 if son (false) both false, husband unstated/variable gets remainder.

1 - 2/3 (2/9 x 3 daughters) = 1/3 husband

mirjamnur

Salam Noonwalqalami

411 directs you The God in your children to the male like share the two (feminine) so if be females above two (feminine) so for them two thirds what left and if she was one so for her the half and for their parents to each one from them the sixth from what left if is to person walad/son so if not is to person waladun child/born and heirs person?s parents (if only parents) so to his mother the third so if is to person ikh'watun brothers/siblings (at least one male present) so to his mother the sixth from after a will have made in it or judgment your parents and your children not you know which of them closer to you benefit obligation from The God indeed The God is Knowing Wise.

directs you The God in your CHILDREN (waladakum) to the male (al thakkar) like share the two feminine(al unthaiyn)...

God is clear in his testimony. He uses in 4.11 walad for children and clearly differentiated by Thakkar and Unthain the sexes.
It can be assumed that walad in this matter, the word refers to the children and not sons.
Then everything is much easier

now the example husband three daughters

4.12 husband become 1/4 because there are childrens
the daughters become all the rest, because there is no boy. i understand the 2/3 for the girls, when there are males also
because why 2/3 for whom the rest??? this would be illogical what you have proved...

wait, because to much Math in the morning Allah may give me knowledge
peace

Noon_waalqalami

directs you The God in your CHILDREN (waladakum) to the male (al thakkar) like share the two feminine(al unthaiyn)...

God is clear in his testimony. He uses in 4.11 walad for children and clearly differentiated by Thakkar and Unthain the sexes.
It can be assumed that walad in this matter, the word refers to the children and not sons.
Then everything is much easier

now the example husband three daughters

4.12 husband become 1/4 because there are childrens
the daughters become all the rest, because there is no boy. i understand the 2/3 for the girls, when there are males also
because why 2/3 for whom the rest??? this would be illogical what you have proved...

wait, because to much Math in the morning Allah may give me knowledge
peace

Peace mirjamnur,

Take your time and clearly think it through before posting; it cannot be 2/3 for the girls when there are males.

It was explained in beginning of thread the word can mean son, child, or born/begot...
37152 begot The God and indeed they surely liars

Example mother, father, husband, 3 daughters, son

If we give 3 daughters 2/3 and the parents 1/3 leaves nothing to give the husband and son.

411 directs you The God in your children to the male like share the two (feminine) and for their parents to each one from them the sixth from what left if is to person walad/son

412 and for you half what left your spouse?s if not is for them waladun child/born so if is for them walad/son so for you the fourth

If children mixed 21 ratio male to female always the case for mixed children or siblings.
If son = true 1/6 mother
If son = true 1/6 father
If son = true 1/4 husband

1 - 1/6 mother - 1/6 father - 1/4 husband = 5/12 children at 21 ratio male to female (1/12 x 3 daughters + 1/6 son)

mirjamnur

Salam
I will meditate over the problem hmm hail first in german and when i'm finished i will come back here. o.k?
thanks for your sabr...

peace

Wakas

salaam Nun,

Have you posted this on anti-Islam websites and asked them to refute? If so, please provide the links. Thanks.

If you have, and all attempts to refute have failed, then I am willing to offer help to develop a dedicated site for this, i.e. an online calculator. I have experience in such projects, e.g. AreYouMuslim.com, Learn-About-Islam.com, QuranConnection.com etc.

StopS

It is quite funny to see my video used here as a challenge to the Koranic inheritance guidelines )

The problem is simple there are numerous calculators on the net concerning Islamic inheritance rules and laws. None of them really follow the rulings in the Koran and they differ between each other.

The reason is that a simple example will show that the mathematics used is insufficient to create a realistic solution, which leaves only one possibility the sentences in question are merely allegorical and are there to serve not as accurate calculations but concepts.

Wakas

salaam/peace StopS,

Please provide the author of this thread with your "simple example".

Thanks.

StopS

Please provide the author of this thread with your "simple example".

Sure, I was under the impression everybody knew it.

Calculate the inheritance for a wife, 3 daughters and 2 parents of a man who died.

1/8 wife/wives 3/24 have children, then for them of what you leave an eighth
2/3 daughters 16/24 women above two, then for them two-thirds of what he leaves
2/6 parents 8/24 parents to each one of the two the sixth of what he leaves

= 3 + 16 + 8 = 27/24

Noon_waalqalami

salaam Nun,

Have you posted this on anti-Islam websites and asked them to refute? If so, please provide the links. Thanks.

If you have, and all attempts to refute have failed, then I am willing to offer help to develop a dedicated site for this, i.e. an online calculator. I have experience in such projects, e.g. AreYouMuslim.com, Learn-About-Islam.com, QuranConnection.com etc.

Peace Wakas,

Thank you for making this thread a sticky; it's for the benefit of those who seek understanding for their own souls and if they truly desire they'll be quided here. I have little interest in evangelizing or proving anything to anyone especially annoying missionaries, followers of hearsay, math deficiate numerologists or the godless aroused at miss-leading others into the abysss chanting...

"Our nada who art in nada, nada be thy name thy kingdom nada thy will be nada in nada as it is in nada. Give us this nada our daily nada and nada us our nada as we nada our nadas and nada us not into nada but deliver us from nada; pues nada . Hail nothing full of nothing, nothing is with thee."
Ernest Hemingway http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean,_Well-Lighted_Place

Noon_waalqalami

It is quite funny to see my video used here as a challenge to the Koranic inheritance guidelines )

The problem is simple there are numerous calculators on the net concerning Islamic inheritance rules and laws. None of them really follow the rulings in the Koran and they differ between each other.

The reason is that a simple example will show that the mathematics used is insufficient to create a realistic solution, which leaves only one possibility the sentences in question are merely allegorical and are there to serve not as accurate calculations but concepts.

Hello, peace and welcome StopS,

Your video was funny too and inaccurate according to Qur'an. In addition, the other sites and people that you were debating are clueless on the subject of inheritance verses, cannot follow simple instructions, and lack basic IF THEN ELSE logic.

Sure, I was under the impression everybody knew it.

Calculate the inheritance for a wife, 3 daughters and 2 parents of a man who died.

1/8 wife/wives 3/24 have children, then for them of what you leave an eighth
2/3 daughters 16/24 women above two, then for them two-thirds of what he leaves
2/6 parents 8/24 parents to each one of the two the sixth of what he leaves

= 3 + 16 + 8 = 27/24

All combinations and their appropriate mathamatical distributions were posted at beginning of this thread.

Here are the verses which if followed literally will give precise amounts without excess/shortfall.

411 directs you The God in your children to the male like share the two (feminine) so if be females above two (feminine) so for them two thirds what left and if she was one so for her the half and for their parents to each one from them the sixth from what left if is to person walad/son so if not is to person waladun child/born and heirs person?s parents (if only parents) so to his mother the third so if is to person ikh'watun brothers/siblings (at least one male present) so to his mother the sixth from after a will have made in it or judgment your parents and your children not you know which of them closer to you benefit obligation from The God indeed The God is Knowing Wise

412 and for you half what left your spouse?s if not is for them waladun child/born so if is for them walad/son so for you the fourth from what they left from after a will they made in it or judgment and for them the fourth from what you left if not is to you waladun child/born so if is to you walad/son so for them the eight from what you left from after a will you made in it or judgment and if is a man inherited kallatan (fatherless spouseless) or woman and has a brother or sister so for each one from them the sixth so if they were more from that so they partners in the third from after a will is recommended in it or judgment not harmful a will from The God and The God Knowing Forbearing

4176 they seek your ruling say The God gives you a ruling in al-kallati (the fatherless spouseless) if a person died is not to that person waladun child/born and has sister so for her half what left and he inherits it if not is to her waladun child/born so if were two (feminine) so to them the two thirds from what left and if they were ikh'watun brothers/siblings men/males and females so to the male like share the two (feminine) clarifies The God to you lest you stray and The God in every a thing Knowing

mother, father, husband/wife, 3 daughters 1/9 1/9 1/9 2/3

Calculate the inheritance for a wife, 3 daughters and 2 parents of a man who died.

411 so if be females above two (feminine) so for them two thirds
3 daughters = 2/3

411 and for their parents to each one from them the sixth from what left if is to person walad/son

IF son THEN each parent share = 1/6 ELSE parents share = variable/unstated
It's same as in case mother and son (1 - 1/6 mother = 5/6 son variable/unstated )

412... and for them the fourth from what you left if not is to you waladun child/born so if is to you walad/son so for them the eight

IF no child/born THEN wife share = 1/4 (false, there are daughters i.e. children)
ELSE IF son THEN wife share = 1/8 (false, no son)
Thus wife share for this case = variable/unstated

Therefore 1 - 2/3 (3 daughters, 2/9 each) = 1/3 (1/9 mother, 1/9 father, 1/9 wife)

StopS

411 so if be females above two (feminine) so for them two thirds
3 daughters = 2/3

411 and for their parents to each one from them the sixth from what left if is to person walad/son

IF son THEN each parent share = 1/6 ELSE parents share = variable/unstated
It's same as in case mother and son (1 - 1/6 mother = 5/6 son variable/unstated )

412... and for them the fourth from what you left if not is to you waladun child/born so if is to you walad/son so for them the eight from what you left

IF no child/born THEN wife share = 1/4 (statement = false, there are daughters i.e. children)
ELSE if son THEN wife share = 1/8 (statement = false, no son)
ELSE wife share = variable/unstated

Therefore 1 - 2/3 (3 daughters, 2/9 each) = 1/3 (1/9 mother, 1/9 father, 1/9 wife)

Could you drop the emotional garbage, please? Thanks. I would prefer a civilised discussion.

You are playing games. Please don't.

"And for his parents for each of them there is one-sixth of the inheritance if he has a child, but if he does not have a child and the parents are the heirs then for the mother one-third."

The Arabic word "walad" has been variously translated as child, son, children and offspring by translators. However, there is universal agreement amongst the Sunni Muslim jurists that "walad" here refers to any child or agnatic grandchild (grandchild through son).

If there is a child or agnatic grandchild amongst the heirs then each of the parents inherits one-sixth. In the absence of a child or agnatic grandchild the mother inherits one-third, the share of the father is not mentioned under these circumstances. The father in fact inherits as a residuary (a residuary heir gets whatever remains of the inheritance after the Quranic sharers have been allocated their shares, residuary heirs are generally male agnates) under these circumstances.

http//www.kalamullah.com/fatwa13.html

This fatwa also interprets and deviates from the decree in the Koran by insinuating that the father receives what is left, which not in the Koranic text.

Another opinion says

the Court stated simply that "so long as the deceased is survived by children, either male or female, the rights of inheritance of the deceased's blood relations, except for parents and spouse, are foreclosed". The only reasoning or authority cited in support of this interpretation was a brief reference to the views of Ibnu Abbas, one of the companions of the Prophet, who construed the word walad in Koran 4 176 as embracing both male and female children.

Another one says

The word 'walad' in in kana lahu walad (if he has children) and fa in lam ya kun lahu walad (if he does not have children) is used both for male and female children. In the Arabic language, this connotation is conventional and customary. Besides being used here, it has also been used subsequently where the shares of the spouses are stated. In this writer's opinion, in all these instances it has the same meaning. There is no contextual indication, intrinsic or extrinsic, to believe that the word has specifically been used for male children. Linguists maintain that it is used in the singular as well as the plural sense and, also, both for the masculine and the feminine gender. In all the cases mentioned, whether boys and girls in the indicated numbers are present or absent, these connotations of the word shall be considered understood.

This means that your view of walad being a single boy is not universally accepted.

Please show me where in the Koran it says that the inheritance is divided into shares which can be re-allocated?
Where in my example is there a son?
Please show me where in the Koran the 1/9 comes up.
Where is the adherence of the text which says very explicitly "parents to each one of the two the sixth of what he leaves, if he has children" or "parents, a sixth share to each"???
What happened to the decree for the wives "if you have children, then for them of what you leave an eighth"? Can 1/8 decided in the Koran, be changed to 1/9 by a human?

What you also leave out is the "bequeath for their widows a year's maintenance and residence" stated in 2240, which is also not considered.

Sorry, but your argument is based on the obfuscation of a word, which you are re-assigning a new meaning to and then following it up with re-interpretation.