Inheritance according to Qur?an

Samira1234

@Noon

"to the male similitude apportion the two (females)"

Which means the distribution, when two females and one male, is equal for all of them?

huruf

There are a number of very good and beautiful teachings in the Quran. I appreciate that. But there seems to be an overwhelmingly large number of non-spiritual type teachings, which concerns me regarding the scripture. Just read Surah al-Anfal, al-Tawbah and al-Masad as examples. When contrasted with such types of teachings I appreciate the character and teachings of Jesus in the New Testament at a number of places. The Quran seems to be missing that spiritual depth within it. And no, I am not a Christian simply for appreciating Jesus.

I am just a truth seeker at this point, that's all.

Peace.

If you cannot find anything spiritual int he Qur'an I am sorry for you. It is not the Qur'an's fault that is for sure. The pparables of Jesus in the gospels are good. Some very, very good but I do not see what is the use of starting a competiton between parables and The Qur'an. If there is such competition of course I pick the Qur'an any time, but in fact, that bompetition you are bringing up is nonsense. Good things do not compete with each other and that competition things makes me distrust the sincerity of peopole who come up with it. For me there is no question fo choosing this rather than that when in fact there is no need of choosing, because AS THE QUR'AN SAYS there is only one religion which is self delivery to God, submission to God, some say, I don't like that translation of islam, but rather self-delivery into God's Mercy.

I spit in this idiocy of making prophets fight each other. Haven' you read the Qur'an and seen that we should not do that. That we must accept ll prophets and that God has sent prophets to all peopple and that they are all one, no conflict between them?

What 3isa taught is what all prophets have taught everywhere.

Salaam

Samira1234

@hawk99

So you see nothing wrong with the translations of those verses I mentioned earlier? Those verses give a crystal-clear picture of hell, which is a roaring and raging fire, with hell angels, zaqqum tree and pus for food, boiling water being poured on the person which will melt their insides, etc. And somehow "magically" you transformed all of them into allegories. When I ask you on them, you don't reply how you turned them into allegories, you call me "arrogant".

Seeing this verse

I will divert from My revelations those who are arrogant on earth, without justification.
Consequently, when they see every kind of proof they will not believe. And when they see the
path of guidance they will not adopt it as their path, but when they see the path of straying they
will adopt it as their path. This is the consequence of their rejecting our proofs, and being totally
heedless thereof.

The Western and the European countries are seemingly "diverted" from the Quran, and are apparently doing just fine, actually better than a number of Muslim countries, particularly those without natural resources such as oil. And what proofs am I rejecting? I am trying to see things clearly without being religiously indoctrinated as I was my whole life and saw things with rose-coloured lenses, and people are trying to put me back in that religious indoctrination again. I don't know why.

The mirror effect
The inherently violent person will "see" the Quran as a warriors manual, the confused
person will be confused by it, the non-believer will see it as nonsense, the humble
person will be made content by it. The person in search of salvation can find wisdom
and salvation in its ayats. The tyrant will use it to further his agenda, the believer will
fall prostrate.

In other words people according to their subjective conscience and reasoning will see things as they see fit. And this is actually a drawback of the Quran in it's current interpretations. A good person would practice the good teachings and ignore the bad and unjust parts in the Quran, and the one who is prone to violence and fleshly attitude would practice the bad and the unjust and ignore the good teachings. For me I am trying to see it all with an unbiased eye. And getting blamed for that now. It's obvious everybody is steeped in their religious indoctrination in their own way.

Peace.

Samira1234

@huruf

What 3isa taught is what all prophets have taught everywhere.

Yeah the Prophets were supposed to preach the same message. But then, also the character of Eisa and Muhammad are in several ways sky and earth different. Muhammad apparently didn't seem to be as peaceful and merciful as Jesus was, in character and personality. Even just seeing the Quran's verses.

Also check verse 665. In that verse the wives of Muhammad were threatened to either "shape up", or be divorced and replaced with another harem of women in their place. I wonder what on earth happened that would cause even Allah to send revelation to resolve the matter. I doubt the wives were "that" bad that they would be threatened to even be replaced with another set in their place.

665 It may be that he would divorce you, then his Lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; submitting, believing, dutiful, repentant, worshipping, devout, mature and youthful.

Anyway, I don't think there is any point discussing these matters further. I guess I am pretty much done here. People are already hurling accusations on me being arrogant, biased to see the bad, etc.

Peace.

huruf

Peace Samira1234

Thank you for replying to my post.

I see nothing wrong with your translations, therefore I can conclude you do not understand my point.
I am convinced that you truly believe what you have learned from your atheist teacher to be true,
we have no conflict. Allah creates all kind of people from prophets to devils and all in between.

As for the Quran you seem to be one of those who have been led astray by it

I will divert from My revelations those who are arrogant on earth, without justification.
Consequently, when they see every kind of proof they will not believe. And when they see the
path of guidance they will not adopt it as their path, but when they see the path of straying they
will adopt it as their path. This is the consequence of their rejecting our proofs, and being totally
heedless thereof.

The mirror effect
The inherently violent person will "see" the Quran as a warriors manual, the confused
person will be confused by it, the non-believer will see it as nonsense, the humble
person will be made content by it. The person in search of salvation can find wisdom
and salvation in its ayats. The tyrant will use it to further his agenda, the believer will
fall prostrate.

God bless you

peace

Indeed. that is what I meant when I spoke about the French proverb

Love is like a Spanish inn, you eat there what you yourself bring.

Useless to look for sincerity when one is being unsincere, to look for help, when one does not offer help (even to oneself), to look for love when one does not have love in his or her heart.

God, is fair and just. Gives you what you ask for.

And a beautiful for all believers a beautiful aya

1. The heavens are almost rent asunder from above them and the angels celebrate the Praises of their Lord, and pray for forgiveness for (all) beings on earth Behold! Verily Allah is He, the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (5) And those who take as protectors others besides Him,- Allah doth watch over them; and thou art not the disposer of their affairs.

Is it not moving that God created beings to ask for His forgiveness for His creatures. Mercy upon Mercy, Light over light... Lahu al hamd, lahu alhamd, subhanallah, subhanallah, subhanallah

Salaam

Samira1234

@huruf

Is it not moving that God created beings to ask for His forgiveness for His creatures.

Why does God need to produce creatures to ask for our forgiveness? Can't He forgive us directly? Isn't that a form of intercession in heavens, of angels on behalf of us? I don't get why God would spend time setting up angels to ask for our forgiveness when He could directly forgive us.

Peace.

Mazhar

Peace,

Here are the verses which if followed literally will give precise amounts without excess/shortfall.

411 directs you The God in your children to the male like share the two (feminine) so if be females above two (feminine) so for them two thirds what left and if she was one so for her the half and for their parents to each one from them the sixth from what left if is to person walad/son so if not is to person waladun child/born and heirs person?s parents (if only parents) so to his mother the third so if is to person ikh'watun brothers/siblings (at least one male present) so to his mother the sixth from after a will have made in it or judgment your parents and your children not you know which of them closer to you benefit obligation from The God indeed The God is Knowing Wise

412 and for you half what left your spouse?s if not is for them waladun child/born so if is for them walad/son so for you the fourth from what they left from after a will they made in it or judgment and for them the fourth from what you left if not is to you waladun child/born so if is to you walad/son so for them the eight from what you left from after a will you made in it or judgment and if is a man inherited kallatan (fatherless spouseless) or woman and has a brother or sister so for each one from them the sixth so if they were more from that so they partners in the third from after a will is recommended in it or judgment not harmful a will from The God and The God Knowing Forbearing

4176 they seek your ruling say The God gives you a ruling in al-kallati (the fatherless spouseless) if a person died is not to that person waladun child/born and has sister so for her half what left and he inherits it if not is to her waladun child/born so if were two (feminine) so to them the two thirds from what left and if they were ikh'watun brothers/siblings men/males and females so to the male like share the two (feminine) clarifies The God to you lest you stray and The God in every a thing Knowing

Pay careful attention to see 411 kalala no son; 412 kalala with son; 4176 the kalala no child/born.

Salam,

First of all you totally ignore the basic principles of reading a text. You realize not what is meant by a condition clause and its apodosis clause. When condition is not met, the apodosis clause is no more applicable and of legal consequence.

You also realize not that each conditional clause is exclusive to other situation/conditional clause.

You do not differentiate between different conjuncts, like Fa and Waw and Fa for apodosis.

You do not care to determine from where a sentence starts and where it ends.
You either know not or ignore a sentence by structure nor its type by meanings.
You realize not which word is the Subject of sentence and which word/s are its predicate.
You realize not who is the subject/noun of verb; and if subject/noun is hidden to whom it is referring.
You either know not as to what is the function of a prepositional phrase in a sentence or deliberately ignore it.

You care not about suffixed pronouns as to whom it refer.
Moreover, you care not whether verb is perfect or imperfect, and if imperfect what is its mood.

Please don't take offence, if you know above point please analyse the aforementioned Ayahs according to accepted norms of translating a text.

hawk99

Peace Samira1234

) Why are you so desperately seeking approval for your points of view? Don't feel so "picked on"
because folks don't agree with you. The best way to find agreement is to speak to likeminded people.
Many atheist, Christians, Hindus, and Jews would agree with you but not many Muslims. Many atheist,
Christians, Hindus, and Jews would not agree with me, realizing this, I would not trouble myself
with force feeding my point of view in their forums. If for some reason (which I can't conceive of
right now), I would expect to be barraged with disapproval.

God bless you

peace

huruf

@huruf

Why does God need to produce creatures to ask for our forgiveness? Can't He forgive us directly? Isn't that a form of intercession in heavens, of angels on behalf of us? I don't get why God would spend time setting up angels to ask for our forgiveness when He could directly forgive us.

Peace.

God needs? God does not need anything at all. He does whatever He pleases and He pleased to create what He has created.

And for sure one thing he doesn't need is your approval for anything or your believing anything, He did not need you either, so why do you exist? Do you think you are in a situation to ask justifications from God. If you do, it is very simple;read the Qur'an in order to learn instead of picking things here and there from it in order to provoke. Because everything yu ask is in the Qur'an, very succintly and neatly explained. But I guess you get your sheet of the day with provoking questions that suposedly should irk the believers and destabilise our foundations...

And, by the way, I didn't write that aya to make a trial before jury of it. I wrote it just as a word of mercy from God. You do not want mercy if it comes from Qur'an, that is your business. I do not think you are upsetting anybody here because of that. We are not pushing down your throat any Mercy at all. We are sturdy people and besides as you well know "we are brainwashed by the Qur'aan" O0 O0 O0 O0 O0

Salaam

hawk99

We are sturdy people and besides as you well know "we are brainwashed by the Qur'aan" O0 O0 O0 O0 O0

)

Samira1234

@huruf

And for sure one thing he doesn't need is your approval for anything or your believing anything, He did not need you either, so why do you exist? Do you think you are in a situation to ask justifications from God. If you do, it is very simple;read the Qur'an in order to learn instead of picking things here and there from it in order to provoke. Because everything yu ask is in the Qur'an, very succintly and neatly explained.

Yeah that's true. God can do anything He pleases. The reason why he created us is also explained

5156 I did not create the Jinn and mankind except to serve Me.

@hawk99

Why are you so desperately seeking approval for your points of view? Don't feel so "picked on"
because folks don't agree with you.

I guess it could be true what you are saying. These things I am raising had occurred to me since childhood, but I never bothered investigating that time and I was too young as well. Now that I am investigating, I am finding things as they go and am surprised that similar ideas did not occur to other Muslims, who have spend much more time than me studying the Quran. I wonder why. Now I might get some response to this such as "Allah did not open your heart to it since you are so arrogantly holding onto your biased opinions", something of this sort. Um.

Perhaps the reason I asked my "provoking-type" questions is to see other people's responses to them, and whether they feel the same about them as I do. And if they have an answer for them I would be welcome to them to learn more, as long as they made sense.

By the way I am not a Christian or an atheist, as people might think of me. I am a truth seeker. I pick up teachings and values from other moral systems too as long as they make sense.

I found some quotes as follows

?Doubt isn't the opposite of faith; it is an element of faith.?
Paul Tillich

?Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.?
Richard P. Feynman

?The fear of God is not the beginning of wisdom. The fear of God is the death of wisdom. Skepticism and doubt lead to study and investigation, and investigation is the beginning of wisdom.?
Clarence Darrow

Lol, this one ?Part of me was afraid that if I raised my fist to the sky and demanded an answer now, I would hear a thundering and calloused, 'Because I said so," from God in heaven. And I may not ever want to speak to Him again.?
Sarah Thebarge

Peace.

good_logic

Peace Samira.

I am sure you have heard of the human rights declaration adopted in 1948?

Here are some articles from that declaration

Article 1 All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood

Qoran endorses this
Their Lord responded to them "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you male or female - you are equal to one another.?

Article2 Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.
Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty

Qoran endorses this

Say, "We believe in God, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are Muslimeen."

O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Omniscient, Cognizant.

Article3
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Qoran endorses this

You shall not kill any person - for God has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder, he will be helped.

Article4No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms

Qoran endorses this

Did we not show him the two paths? He should choose the difficult path. Which one is the difficult path? The freeing of slaves. Feeding, during the time of hardship.

Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west. Righteous are those who believe in God, the Last Day, the angels, the scripture, and the prophets; and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the orphans, the needy, the traveling alien, the beggars, and to free the slaves;?

Charities shall go to the poor, the needy, the workers who collect them, the new converts, to free the slaves, to those burdened by sudden expenses, in the cause of God, and to the traveling alien. Such is God's commandment. God is Omniscient, Most Wise.

...etc.We can all pick bits if we want...

Please study the Qoran as a whole, when one gets the basics right, like Who is GOD? Who are we?What is "true Islam? Why are we here as humans?Why did GOD create this vast universe but a minute and insignificant planet earth for us to inhabit?,,,etc Qoran gives you all the answers and the whole picture! You need all the pieces of the jigsaw to make the picture.

I hope you succeed.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

truthseeker11

Peace Noon,

Peace truthseeker11

Yes we discussed before and with cross-reference points to females; we?re still waiting proof otherwise?

2222 ? so abandon ye of al-nisaa/the womenfolk in the menstruation and not approach ye them (f/p)?

422 and not thou marry ye of whom married/had sex fathers yours from al-nisi/the womenfolk except what hence passed surely it be immorality and abomination and an evil way of

434 al-rijlu/the menfolk maintaining over al-nisi/the womenfolk in what favor the god some them over others and in what spend they of from wealth theirs?

Peace

The proof and extensive linguistic analysis has already been given by Samia years ago

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597307.0

RJL means to walk on foot.
Rijaal is plural of RJL and are those who walk on foot (includes men and women). It includes men and women who walk on foot and earn a livelihood and make money.

NS' means to leave behind.
Nisaa is plural of NS' and are those left behind (includes men and women). It includes men and women who stay back at home.

Rijaal and nisaa are gender neutral words. THE CONTEXT DETERMINES WHAT GENDER THESE PLURAL WORDS MEAN IN AL-QURAN.

In 2222 and 422 nisaa refers to women according to context.
In 434 nisaa refers to men and women who stay back at home and rijaal refers to men and women who walk on foot to earn a livelihood.

434 Those who walk on foot (men and women) are maintainers/supporters of those who are left behind (men and women)

If it means "men are supporters of women", then it would mean "ALL men are supporters of ALL women", which is TOTALLY INCORRECT and a FALSE STATEMENT. According to your translation the infinite Creator has no idea that some women also support some men and you are attributing this falsehood to the infinite Creator or it will be a proof that this verse is a fabrication and not inspired by the infinite Creator.

An example of gender neutral word in English would be "students" which includes men and women. The context would determine what gender it refers to.

The students were having periods/menstruation ----- clearly students include only females.
The students were reading books ----- clearly students include males and females.

So clearly you cannot justify the misogyny, injustice, and discrimination against women in inheritance verses based on your false translation of 434.

Please discard the above if it does not appeal to your mind, reason or logic. I will not make any further comments on this issue. I leave you in the love and light of the infinite Creator.

Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you.

hawk99

@hawk99

"Allah did not open your heart to it since you are so arrogantly holding onto your biased opinions", something of this sort.

Perhaps the reason I asked my "provoking-type" questions is to see other people's responses to them, and whether they feel the same about them as I do. And if they have an answer for them I would be welcome to them to learn more, as long as they made sense.

Peace Samira1234

Thank you for responding to my post

I for one cannot identify with you because, my deen is not about what others think! My deen is about
guidance and salvation. That is why such questions like is hell literal or allegorical is irrelevant because
hell is an awful destination no matter what. If you want guidance Allah offers you that in Quran, If you want
to figure out the hoopoe and Sulayman that's your choice. The question is what do you want?
The reason I said see 3/7 is because you have to decide what is important to you.

He it is Who hath revealed unto thee the Scripture wherein are clear revelations -
they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose
hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by
seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound
instruction say We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding
really heed.

God bless you

peace

Mazhar

The reason I said see 3/7 is because you have to decide what is important to you.

He it is Who hath revealed unto thee the Scripture wherein are clear revelations -
they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose
hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by
seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound
instruction say We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding
really heed.

Such casual translations do create confusion. The book that serves as guide in timeline can never contain any allefgorical substance. First type of Aayat verbal passages are mentioned by Passive Participle of Form-IV; while other Aayat are mentioned by Active Participle Form-VI. Both are explicit in meanings and perception they convey.

Miscellany of Grand Qur'aan Format and Organization

truthseeker11

Peace be upon all of you,

@good logic

Hello and peace be upon you.

I just posted one simple error, because I know posting more would create more lengthy debates which I don't have time for currently.

This requires a little more of eagle-eye. When God asked Muhammad to proclaim, why He said after that O MY servants, and then the rest of the verse reflecting accurate way of speaking from Muhammad's perspective? God should have told Muhammad to proclaim 'O Allah's servants'. The people were not Muhammad's servants, were they?

So he should be careful on not saying 'O my servants' right? Otherwise the word 'Say' should not be present before this statement. This is an error of the Arabic text itself. Unless Arabic was supposed to be interpreted in a very different way than what we currently know of.

This reminds me of discussing the tashahud issue with Sunni Muslims where the large majority of them, educated or not, still refuses to acknowledge that any shirk is being done when they say 'Peace be upon you, O Prophet' during Salah, instead of 'Peace be upon the Prophet' or something similar.

Peace.

Just to add, if what "good logic" said is true, then the same verse and subsequent verses should have continued in the same person

3953 Say O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of MY MERCY. For I forgive all sins. I AM the Forgiver, the Merciful
3954 And repent to ME, and submit to ME, before the retribution comes to you. Then you cannot be helped.
3955 And follow the best of what has been sent down to you from ME, before the retribution comes to you suddenly when you least expect it.

Currently the Arabic text clearly shows an inconsistency in person IN THE SAME SENTENCE

3953 Say O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of the mercy of God. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.
3954 And repent to your Lord, and submit to Him, before the retribution comes to you. Then you cannot be helped.
3955 And follow the best of what has been sent down to you from your Lord, before the retribution comes to you suddenly when you least expect it.

It is all continuation of the same sentence but FIRST PERSON CHANGES TO THIRD PERSON IN SAME SENTENCE. This kind of inconsistency cannot be expected from the infinite Creator, and those who blindly accept this grammatical inconsistency are actually mocking the infinite Creator.

I am error prone in my 3rd density/dimensional existence but the infinite Creator is perfection.

By the way, what's up with repeated "before the retribution comes to you"? Why not "before death comes to you"?

Lastly, even God allegedly wants us to follow the best of what has been sent down from God

3955 And follow the best of what has been sent down to you from your Lord, before the retribution comes to you suddenly when you least expect it.

This implies that God does not want us to follow ALL that is sent down from God but only the best and which implies that some of what God has sent down is not the best and should not be followed! God is perhaps not confident about all of what God sent down?????? Is this God really the infinite Creator whose EVERY inspiration is perfection and the best??????

Peace and may the love and light of the infinite Creator be with you all.

Mazhar

Peace Noon,

The proof and extensive linguistic analysis has already been given by Samia years ago

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597307.0

Re What is the difference between "Nissa, Amraat and Azwaj"
? Reply #38 on October 30, 2008, 041550 AM ?Quote Quote from Mazhar on October 29, 2008, 020315 AM
Sister I requested you to explain for my knowledge about hamza issue.

Sorry for the belated reply.

You are right in believing that "nisaa'" is a possible plural of "nuun seen wau", with the wau coming at the end of the word and following an extra alif, then it will be changed into a hamza.
But if we already have this plural in (niswa), why would the language cut another plural with the same meaning? Seebawayh tried to solve this problem by stating that "niswa" is for a fewer number of women, and "nisaa'" is for many. But we know this is incorrect, since the qur'aan stated (nisaa'an more than two), which is the minimum plural.
You may like to read further about the rules of all letters changing at this link

http//zahra1.com/Nah_Em_7att_balagah/E-e3lall.html

good_logic

Peace Truthseeker.

What you say is not clear to me.

Please explain your post and the verses?

GOD bless you.
Peace.

runninglikezebras