Inheritance according to Qur?an
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I hope one day Muslims will understand that these are completely useless debates nop
Peace ? was there something that needs further clarification or only posting due to frustration?
Inheritance verses require logical reasoning teach to look at all related if then else statements. -
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Your efforts are futile, that's what I'm saying.
No, your efforts to dissuade and create doubt are futile. I am content and the above verses perfectly clear ? actually beautiful akin to a computer program; then again if one never applies careful logic to each word they may never see it.
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Brother Noon
We had this discussions before. I still hold that the inheritance rules in Qur'an can be implemented in several ways with some core principles being hard-coded. The society has the flexibility to implement within these guiding principles. I view your interpretation as one of the several potential plausible interpretations but not the only possible option.
However just to highlight a possible confusion from the above summary.. what is your suggested distribution for 10 sons and 4 daughters assuming no other beneficiaries? Are you suggesting sons would get 1/30 each and daughters 1/6 each? That is what your second chart means for me.
Regards,
Arman -
Brother Noon
We had this discussions before. I still hold that the inheritance rules in Qur'an can be implemented in several ways with some core principles being hard-coded. The society has the flexibility to implement within these guiding principles. I view your interpretation as one of the several potential plausible interpretations but not the only possible option.
Peace Arman, one can write a will hence there is the flexibility, otherwise one cannot make stuff up according to what they think it should read and likewise whatever they propose needs to be consist and not contradicting for each of the numerous combinations as in the above examples.
However just to highlight a possible confusion from the above summary.. what is your suggested distribution for 10 sons and 4 daughters assuming no other beneficiaries? Are you suggesting sons would get 1/30 each and daughters 1/6 each? That is what your second chart means for me.
Yes, no confusion it's clearly written...
411 ... so if be nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two (if 3+ daughters) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left -
Peace Arman, one can write a will hence there is the flexibility, otherwise one cannot make stuff up according to what they think it should read and likewise whatever they propose needs to be consist and not contradicting for each of the numerous combinations as in the above examples.
Yes, no confusion it's clearly written...
411 ... so if be nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two (if 3+ daughters) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what leftThanks for clarifying your understanding.
Per my reading however " " translates as "If they are women more than two" rather than "If be women more than two". And the implication is vast.
Best regards,
Arman -
No, your efforts to dissuade and create doubt are futile. I am content and the above verses perfectly clear ? actually beautiful akin to a computer program; then again if one never applies careful logic to each word they may never see it.
I hope one day you will realize that what I said is the truth, it also took me a long time to accept this.
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Recluse,
Of course, the whole concept of inheritance here is stupid and one can see that it is the work of clerics.
When a father and mother have both died then their children will split their parents possessions equally. But when their either mother or father is alive in the flesh then certainly all possessions still remains with the widow as he or she is the other's half.
Not so hard to understand without some kind of scripture. Self-explanatory.
The importance for these clerics and scholars who interpreted Quran with inheritance only shows their Pagan (worldly) view.
One of the passages in which speaks of inheritance in the sectarian interpretation actually speaks about the grand responsibility of getting children and advice concerning it, in the real interpretation.
Be well
Amenuel -
Thanks for clarifying your understanding.
Per my reading however " " translates as "If they are women more than two" rather than "If be women more than two". And the implication is vast.
Peace Arman, it's simple count how many; no difference or implications on distributions and to be more precise...
so if kunna/be/are (feminine pl.) nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above ith'natayni/two (feminine dual).
Also like to ask posters to stay on topic; thread is on inheritance verses according to Qur'an not about self doubt, futility, or opinions on how to divide wealth etc., perhaps open different topic, this thread is long enough already...
411
Children
instructs you the god in offspring yours to the male (i.e. gender) similitude apportion the two (females)1/2 two daughters (1/4 each) + 1/2 son/s
so if kunna/be/are (feminine pl.) nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two (if 3+ daughters) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left
2/3 three+ daughters + 1/3 son/s
and if knat/be she (feminine singular) whidatan/one (female) so for her the half
1/2 daughter + 1/2 son/s
http//oi65.tinypic.com/fc5pqb.jpg
Parents
and to parents two said person to each one of them dual the sixth from what left if be for said person offspring1/6 parent + 5/6 child {If mixed gender children use ratios to distribute 5/6}
1/3 parents (1/6 each) + 2/3 childso if not that be for said person offspring and inherit said person parents dual said person (if both parents alive) so to mother said person the third
1/3 mother + 2/3 father
so if be for said person ikh'watun/siblings {i.e. 3+ brothers (use 412) or 2+ brothers & sister or 1+ brothers & 2+ sisters (use 4176)} so to mother said person the sixth
from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment
fathers yours and children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of412
Husband
and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them offspring1/2 husband + 1/2 parent
1/2 husband + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/6 fatherso if be for them offspring so for you the fourth from what left they
1/4 husband + 1/6 parent (411) + 7/12 child
1/4 husband + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 411) + 5/12 childfrom after instruction/will instructs they in it or judgment
Wife
and for them the fourth from what left you if not that be for you offspring1/4 wife + 3/4 parent
1/4 wife + 1/3 mother (411) + 5/12 fatherso if be for you offspring so to them the eight from what left you
1/8 wife + 1/6 parent + 17/24 child
1/8 wife + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 411) + 13/24 childfrom after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment
Kalala single gender sibling/s
and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to said person brother or sister so to each one of them dual the sixth1/6 brother/sister + 5/6 parent
1/6 brother/sister + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/2 fatherso if kn/be they of more from such so they partners in the third
1/3 two brothers/sisters + 2/3 parent
1/3 two brothers/sisters + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/3 father1/3 three+ sisters + 2/3 parent
1/3 three+ sisters + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/3 father1/3 three+ brothers + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father
from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment
other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant4176
Kalala mixed gender siblings
seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if person perished not is for said person offspring and for said person sister so for her half what left and he inherits her if not that be for her offspring1/2 sister, 1/2 brother/s
so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (females) so to them dual the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) from what left
2/3 two sisters + 1/3 brother/s
and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (females)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each) + 2/5 brother/s
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each) + 1/3 brother/shttp//oi64.tinypic.com/1zvpr0g.jpg
1/6 sister + 1/6 brother + 2/3 parent
1/6 sister + 1/6 brother + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/3 father1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers + 2/3 parent
1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 2/3 parent
2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s + 2/3 parent
1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father2/9 four sisters (1/18 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 2/3 parent
2/9 four sisters (1/18 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 fathershows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower
http//oi64.tinypic.com/2rc38mg.jpg
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Not me.
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So does anybody here really believe that inheritance "according to the Qur'an" is more just than inheritance law in Sweden, the Netherlands or Germany, for example?
That implies hat eople here know what the laws of those countries provide and not lessthat they do know what the Qur'an rovides, which obviously is not the same as knowing what the people, whoever says that the Qur'an says. Notto beconfused the Qur'an with what anybody says the Qur'an says.
And not to be forgotten what other laws provide that together with inheritance may in fact turn out in an unfairer or fairer distribution.
Not me.
I am surpried thaxt you do not have here some interretation of the Qur'an of yours that topples all those fantasies about its meanings ther peole have.
Salaam
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Huruf,
I have not yet reached that part yet in the project, albeit once when I was curious I spontaneously deciphered one alleged inheritance verse and I found it spoke about getting children. Details about that will, an sh allah, come in some time.
But it is easy to just reflect logically to see there is absolutely no reason to state some inheritance law as that ought to come clear on its own. I think even an adolescent could work it out.
And I find the weird inheritance claim regarding verses to be unnecessarily confusing for something that simple.
And it seems only to deal with fiscal matter as it clumsily partitions a greater deal to males as if money is all that is worth anything. And I am not buying that the sons have a greater responsibility because the daughters are too married to men who have families with children. The split should be even to be fair.
And if either husband or wife dies then the other will hold the possessions until both are dead and after that the remnants are shared with the children. The wife and husband are as one flesh even through death.
Be well
Amenuel -
And I am not buying that the sons have a greater responsibility because the daughters are too married to men who have families with children. The split should be even to be fair.
And if either husband or wife dies then the other will hold the possessions until both are dead and after that the remnants are shared with the children. The wife and husband are as one flesh even through death.
Be well
AmenuelBingo )
And the simple reason for that is because the Qur'an is mostly addressing the Arabs of 1400 years ago, it's not addressing any of us here. None of those Qur'anic "laws" have any relation to our own reality in the here and now, but this is extremely hard to accept for those who worship the book and equate that book with God (or God's might) Himself. They think the Qur'an is on the same level as God's knowledge when it's just a book confined by time and space, a certain culture (Arab), history and socio-economic situation. To fundamentalists accepting this simple reality would be equal to disbelief in God Himself (because God = Qur'an = Perfect) and enough to deserve eternal Hellfire. I used to think like that too, but when I learned about alternative views (initially by some Turkish Islamic scholars), I understood that I had been duped and indoctrinated from childhood.
As the Qur'an says;
"Those who listen to all that is said, and follow the best of it it is they whom God has graced with His guidance, and it is they who are endowed with insight"
Peace,
?zcan -
Huruf,
I have not yet reached that part yet in the project, albeit once when I was curious I spontaneously deciphered one alleged inheritance verse and I found it spoke about getting children. Details about that will, an sh allah, come in some time.
But it is easy to just reflect logically to see there is absolutely no reason to state some inheritance law as that ought to come clear on its own. I think even an adolescent could work it out.
And I find the weird inheritance claim regarding verses to be unnecessarily confusing for something that simple.
And it seems only to deal with fiscal matter as it clumsily partitions a greater deal to males as if money is all that is worth anything. And I am not buying that the sons have a greater responsibility because the daughters are too married to men who have families with children. The split should be even to be fair.
And if either husband or wife dies then the other will hold the possessions until both are dead and after that the remnants are shared with the children. The wife and husband are as one flesh even through death.
Be well
AmenuelIndeedyou questionany inrpretation about the Qur?'an butinthis women less than men you haveswallowed the sectarian abassi intrpretation hook line and sinker. Which femalesget les than males? dughters? No. Sisters? No.
Where in the Qur'an says that wome inherit jointly any art? they ar all individual parts. Each person its part. The self-interestedmales have brainwahsed people to read what is not there and ignore logic and common understanding. I would haveexpected you who question evrything to see that. But nevermind.If there is only one female daughter he gets half omatter howmany sons, is that unfair? May be it is, may be it is not, it depends a lot on the circumstances, but it4 certainy aves the one woman to live at the mercy of their brothers, for whom she may be not the most important question.
Salaam
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Yes I question nearly everything.
In the common interpretation clearly women have a disadvantage in terms of inheritance.
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The problem is not "wrong interpretation", but our own attitude towards this book called Qur'an. And the disadvantage of women is not only related to inheritance of course; women are mere posessions of men according to the Qur'an.. because that was the reality back then. It still is the reality in the Persian Gulf, and in parts of Pakistan, Egypt and many other countries. So when it comes to women, I think we can all agree that Saudis are the best 'Muslims' in this respect..
Peace
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Yes I question nearly everything.
Why shouldn't we question everything? Why has the Creator given us these amazing faculties called mind, intellect and conscience, if we are not supposed to use them, or question/ponder about everything in life?
If we are sincerely seeking the truth and asking sincere questions, why would a merciful God throw us into Hell? Even if we made certain mistakes or arrived to certain wrong conclusions in our sincere quest for truth? Blind belief and acceptance of anything is the easiest thing in the world to do, blind belief or acceptance is not a virtue, and it does not benefit us, God or anyone else...
Any fool can do that, just shut off your intellect and conscience. If a real "prophet" came today many people on this forum would blindly reject him and tell him that they will only follow what their forefathers have been following for 1400 years. They would call that prophet a kafir/infidel...
Peace
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If a real "prophet" came today many people on this forum would blindly reject him and tell him that they will only follow what their forefathers have been following for 1400 years. They would call that prophet a kafir/infidel...
Yes, they do.
Be safe
Amenuel -
And it seems only to deal with fiscal matter as it clumsily partitions a greater deal to males as if money is all that is worth anything.
So indeed, you, who question everything, are indeed buying he arrangement made to the Qur'an done male rule through some centuries ad take it as unchallenged law.
So, indeed, your attitude is not better than that of themany you criticize for taking for granted the views elaborated by humans and diregarding the real wording of the Qur'an. Youcertify their sayings. But the text on inheritance to males and females is indeed very straightforward, the anilulation too obvious to see, but still you cling to it, something that is doneby many who blame the Qur0nfor saying this or tht but that if somebody refutes that "this or that" and shows this or that but somethig quite different, get vary angry and cling to the worst interpretaci?n that can be had.
Not that it surprises me.
Salaam