Inheritance according to Qur?an
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Peace Recluse,
I don't know about you but I have only 1 right hand and it possess 5 fingers.
No, this shows that your understanding is flawed.
Yes, i believe it is revealed to people of Norway of 2016 and people of Chili in 3234
There are people here on this forum who are from Scandinavian countries who do not think that, because they are smart enough to not let themselves get indoctrinated by the interpretation of sexual obsessed people.Because I believe my understanding and the understanding of a lot of people here is much better than the established and historical understanding of the "entire ummah".
So because you said that verse 3918 should be universally applied...
3918 "Those who listen to all that is said, and follow the best of it it is they whom God has graced with His guidance, and it is they who are endowed with insight" (your translation)
It means thus that you are not on the right track, as you insist to choose over and over again the inferior understanding over what is better.
RED Not change it to what pleases me, that is what sexual obsessed people do and other evil people.
But change it to what I think is best. If someone comes with a better understanding than mine then I would be a fool not to accept his/her understanding over mine.
3918 is as you said universal, so apply that, strive for what is better in everything, including how to understand the quran.Salaam,
Benderbravo bravo bravo
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@ Bender )
Your are too emotional and display very strong signs of blind faith.
Your reaction shows that you are horrified even by the very thought that you could be wrong.
It scares the living daylights outta you. You most probably think that you would or could become a kafir, if you thought too much....
... Destined for eternal hellfire by the Merciful God... )
Anyway, I must respectfully disagree; my understanding of the Qur'an is absolutely not less than people here, trust me..
I've been reading the Qur'an for many years, the Qur'an is nothing new to me...I could give you so many verses proving without a doubt that the Qur'an is not universal...
But you (like most people here who adhere to certain dogmas) would twist all their meanings, albeit with good intention, and thus, the discussion would lead nowhere..
So let's simply agree to disagree..
Peace )
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Who gets to decide what is the ultimate and only correct and acceptable interpretation? According to which and whose criteria?
The one who made Quran written obviously decided what it is supposed to say.
It was medieval clerics who decided the "ultimate" and "only correct and acceptable interpretation" and spread it. The first interpreters did not even grasp what it was supposed to say so it never was interpreted in the first place. As long as people are just following what others have said regarding its interpretation no one will discover it either.
And the real deciphering of the passages tell a completely different story. It is very different. I have deciphered a small fraction of it as was intended by its author. One will definitely find more answers to their existence and remedies to pass along in this world to the next stage of existence. I am showing this in the forum here and there but few seem interested albeit there are some who are actually interested from time to time.
I have only deciphered about 300 verses and they convey so much information that I know the greater picture of what everything is about.
Does the historical and cultural context and reality of the people who directly received those 'revelations' have any meaning or relevance when interpreting the Qur'an?
Roots of Arabic more or less exclusively stem from Aramaic, the roots mean basically the same. The meanings of words are independent of culture and reality of people since they have a strict meaning conveyed by their usually trilateral root system constructed from three letter in formation. Depending on which letter and which "slot" in a word they tell something differently as the magnitude and action perspective and mode of application changes. An Arabic word can never change meaning, even if it has passed 5000 years. If it does in culture that is because they misuse the word, applying it improperly.
Take Jiim-Nun-(Nun), for example, it morphologically means "Outer/Lower Integrity" and a useful definition in a lexicon is body/skin/dress/outer layer. Al-Jinn means "the bodily", referring to everything related to the just the bodily. If a person is al-jinn it means the person is very worldly in their perception such as the servant of Solomon in a passage of Quran.
When using al-anas wa al-jinn you refer to the spiritual and the bodily.
Then why must women obey their husbands? This is merely one out of countless examples to disprove the claim that the Qur'an does not favour men. It obviously does in its literal meanings.
Using a traditional mode of deciphering using implemented grammar rules it is difficult to find another answer. I once months ago deciphered the infamous 434 verse and I just found a completely different topic which spoke about locating particularly potent people and helping them.
The sectarian interpretation of Quran does obviously favor men over women. I do not deny this. Even if you change the interpretation of 434 into not meaning wife beating it is still misogynistic as long as you cannot find out that the whole understanding of Arabic as it is known is completely south.
PS I'm not hostile to you, you seem to be a very nice dude
I am trying to be kind even to people who are hostile and trying to share information with them. However I can sense when communication is futile and I usually just ignore to answer. I am not supposed to feel disturbed in my peace on my journey to help people help themselves. I also sense it is inefficient to reason with people without open ears. If one is not ready they will not be receptive. Better be brief and perchance something wakes them up later.
Sometimes I feel it is easier to communicate logically when Quran is not a barrier between me and the other person due to some flimsy medieval men's fault, so often I delve into logic alone detached from Quran or using logic to break the delusion Quran is coherent and sane in how people understand it. Usually when you go sufficiently deep into the cause of something everything or most regarding the faith suddenly comes out completely illogical, such as eternal Hell.
Be well
Amenuel -
RFegarding inheritance, neither daughters nor sisters inherited less thn their brothers during the omayad, it was with the coming of the abasids that that was changed.So no,not even at the beginning did the ppople get it wrong or did any clever scholar imose such a ridiculous view. But there came with the succession of the abasids the need to oust a woman for inheritance so they brought a new "understanding" of he corresponding ayas.
It is a myth also that all the time and all the muslims scholar or not did agree with wht is pushed today as the "total conssus or ever existing consensus. Differences of opinion also concerning anything to do with women have existed. But today they want tobury those and the ignorants swallow it.
Salaam
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The one who made Quran written obviously decided what it is supposed to say.
This is the main fallacy of the whole "Qur'an alone" movement. The Qur'an, or any other book, can't be fully understood by mere self-reference. All books require some sort of reference from outside sources. If this is not the case, it's impossible to verify or compare it to anything to see whether it is true. The notion of "complete internal self-reference" is a fallacy, unless one is satisfied with mere blind faith.
It was medieval clerics who decided the "ultimate" and "only correct and acceptable interpretation" and spread it. The first interpreters did not even grasp what it was supposed to say so it never was interpreted in the first place. As long as people are just following what others have said regarding its interpretation no one will discover it either.
By 'first interpreters', do you mean prophet Muhammed and his closest companions?
They didn't have to interpret anything because they were literally "living" those verses of the Qur'an...
Another imporant point I forgot; although it's possible (even likely) that some of the interpretation problems happen because of our misunderstandings, it's not possible that all these problems can be blamed on every reader's limited knowledge. No human has unlimited knowledge after all. That means that the Qur'an is only as good as the reader's interpretation.
Someone who is traditional or dogmatic will have no problem with immoral or inconsistent teachings. On the other hand, someone who has strong morals will interpret those same verses very differently. So in the end, it is actually our own conscience that is interpreting those verses. That's one of the reasons why I always say that there is no such thing as "true Islam". Because true Islam is your own conscience and sincerity. All the books in the world, including the Qur'an, cannot even come close to your own conscience when deciding what is right and what is wrong.
Peace
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@ Bender )
Your are too emotional and display very strong signs of blind faith.
Your reaction shows that you are horrified even by the very thought that you could be wrong.
It scares the living daylights outta you. You most probably think that you would or could become a kafir, if you thought too much....
... Destined for eternal hellfire by the Merciful God... )
Hi,
)
Anyway, I must respectfully disagree; my understanding of the Qur'an is absolutely not less than people here, trust me..
I've been reading the Qur'an for many years, the Qur'an is nothing new to me...So it should be not hard for you to tell me what word exactly is slave in the quran.
If it's not asking too much then please enlighten me.I could give you so many verses proving without a doubt that the Qur'an is not universal...
Sure you could but the fact is that you did not.
But you (like most people here who adhere to certain dogmas) would twist all their meanings, albeit with good intention, and thus, the discussion would lead nowhere..
But we are lucky to have you here to correct us and show us the correct meaning.
So let's simply agree to disagree..
Peace )
sure
peace
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There you are Bender, you got psychanalized and I am sure tht Recluse is not going to charge you anything. At least I know he has not charged me.
Aren't we lucky?
Salaam
Hi,
RED Yes he really embarrassed me by exposing my inner feelings '(
Just a tip, be careful, he can do the same to you yes
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By 'first interpreters', do you mean prophet Muhammed and his closest companions?
They didn't have to interpret anything because they were literally "living" those verses of the Qur'an...
Then why hearsay on inheritance is all over the place e.g. meaning of kalala -- have you looked into it?
Abu Talha reported 'Umar b. al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) delivered a sermon on Friday and made a mention of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and he also made a mention of Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) and then said I do not leave behind me any problem more difficult than that of Kalala. I did not refer to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) more repeatedly than in case of the problem of Kalala, and he (the Holy Prophet) never showed more annoyance to me than in regard to this problem, so much so that he struck my chest with his fingers and said 'Umar, does the verse revealed in summer season, at the end of Sura al-Nisa' not suffice you? Hadrat 'Umar (then) said If I live I would give such verdict about (Kalala) that everyone would be able to decide whether he reads the Qur'an or he does not.
http//oi58.tinypic.com/i26moj.jpg
and not I inherit al-majd/the glory al-taleed/the glorious kalala
Anonymous Poet proclaimed
surely, a father protects more wrathfully his offspring ?http//oi62.tinypic.com/sfwg7k.jpg
and patron al-kalalati not gets angry
According to the poet a parent is protective of his children not so the kalala.
Clearly it states that parents inherit together with siblings i.e. kalala case...
411
so if not that be for said person offspring and inherit said person parents dual said person (if both parents alive) so to mother said person the thirdso if be for said person ikh'watun/siblings {3+ brothers (use 412) or 2+ brothers & sister or 1+ brothers & 2+ sisters (use 4176)} so to mother said person the sixth
see inheritance summary...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg385440#msg385440
Peace
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Recluse,
Let us respect that this is not the topic of this thread even if I would be eager to reply.
Be well
Amenuel -
I take tis opportunity to commend Noon' dedication to this social question of inheritanc in Qura'nic terms.
I must acknowledge hat when it comes to making parts for each individual and circumstance, with all its mathematical work, I am not up to it. But that is my own circumstance and does not mean that do not appreciate this work of going through the whole exercise, I do appreciate it. Somebody has to do it even when some or many people do not find it useful. Many things we love and even need are not "useful" but still exist and complete the universe we live in making it habitable and besides, we never know when something seemingly useless may become suddenly or gradually useful.
Salaam
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If you don't answer you will burn in Hell for all eternity.
Yes right, Allah benefits so much from letting me burn in Hell forever.
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You can never be sure of anything with the God of the Qur'an. If you dare suggest even one single letter of the Qur'an as being anything less than the "ultimate, undeniable, unquestionable truth", you are dead meat. I wouldn't take this threat lightly, we must constantly fear Allah when thinking and questioning the Qur'an in our search for truth. We must always remain in a terrified state of mind, or else we might tick Him off. We might unintentionally make Him mad and be condemned to Hell. The God of the Bible and Qur'an is extremely insecure, delicate and sensitive; you can tick Him off easily. And then all Hell breaks lose.
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21 alif lam meem 22 such the book not doubt in it guidance for the righteous 23 the ones believing in the unseen and keeping the contact and from what provide we them spending 24 and the ones believing in what descended to you and what descended from before you and in the afterlife themselves assured being 25 surely those upon guidance from lord theirs and surely those themselves the succeeding
311 alif lam meem 312 signs the book the wise 313 guidance and mercy to the good doers 314 the ones keeping the contact and giving the recompense its and they in the afterlife themselves assured being
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Peace Recluse -- word/s blind faith is not mentioned rather signs hundreds of times; likewise one has to use logic and cross-reference ?to see? these signs.
2171 and similitude the ones disregard they of like similitude the one shouts at what not hears except calls and cries deaf dumb blind so they not reasoning
291 alif lam meem 292 do calculate/figure the humankind that left they of that say they believe we and they not tested being?
Anyways thread is not about lack of faith or whatever topic and specific to inheritance verses.
inheritance verses summary...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg385440#msg385440
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Peace, wanted to bump the summary ...
411
Children
instructs you the god in offspring yours to the male (i.e. gender) similitude apportion the two (females)1/2 two daughters (1/4 each) + 1/2 son/s
so if kunna/be/are (feminine pl.) nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two (if 3+ daughters) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left
2/3 three+ daughters + 1/3 son/s
and if knat/be she (feminine singular) whidatan/one (female) so for her the half
1/2 daughter + 1/2 son/s
http//i63.tinypic.com/28vy6pf.jpg
Parents
and to parents two said person to each one of them dual the sixth from what left if be for said person offspring1/6 parent + 5/6 child {If mixed gender children use ratios to distribute 5/6}
1/3 parents (1/6 each) + 2/3 childso if not that be for said person offspring and inherit said person parents dual said person (if both parents alive) so to mother said person the third
1/3 mother + 2/3 father
so if be for said person ikh'watun/siblings {i.e. 3+ brothers (use 412) or 2+ brothers & sister or 1+ brothers & 2+ sisters (use 4176)} so to mother said person the sixth
from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment
fathers yours and children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of412
Husband
and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them offspring1/2 husband + 1/2 parent
1/2 husband + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/6 fatherso if be for them offspring so for you the fourth from what left they
1/4 husband + 1/6 parent (411) + 7/12 child
1/4 husband + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 411) + 5/12 childfrom after instruction/will instructs they in it or judgment
Wife
and for them the fourth from what left you if not that be for you offspring1/4 wife + 3/4 parent
1/4 wife + 1/3 mother (411) + 5/12 fatherso if be for you offspring so to them the eight from what left you
1/8 wife + 1/6 parent + 17/24 child
1/8 wife + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 411) + 13/24 childfrom after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment
Kalala single gender sibling/s
and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to said person brother or sister so to each one of them dual the sixth1/6 brother/sister + 5/6 parent
1/6 brother/sister + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/2 fatherso if kn/be they of more from such so they partners in the third
1/3 two brothers/sisters + 2/3 parent
1/3 two brothers/sisters + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/3 father1/3 three+ sisters + 2/3 parent
1/3 three+ sisters + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/3 father1/3 three+ brothers + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father
from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment
other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant4176
Kalala mixed gender siblings
seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if person perished not is for said person offspring and for said person sister so for her half what left and he inherits her if not that be for her offspring1/2 sister, 1/2 brother/s
so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (females) so to them dual the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) from what left
2/3 two sisters + 1/3 brother/s
and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (females)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each) + 2/5 brother/s
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each) + 1/3 brother/shttp//i68.tinypic.com/2lufhcl.jpg
1/6 sister + 1/6 brother + 2/3 parent
1/6 sister + 1/6 brother + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/3 father1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers + 2/3 parent
1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 2/3 parent
2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s + 2/3 parent
1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father2/9 four sisters (1/18 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 2/3 parent
2/9 four sisters (1/18 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 fathershows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower
http//oi64.tinypic.com/2rc38mg.jpg
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I am a Master student of theology at UofT. I have done my reflection on the 4th chapter with many verses about heritage but they are all abrogated by the first verse. Quran is not a Law textbook. I will attach my reflection and about the 1st verse of the fourth chapter, please see my weblog
https//godsreligionblog.wordpress.com/2016/11/29/adam-or-eve-who-was-the-firstIt is waste of time if we think God has divided heirs forever.
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EMT1851H Surat al-Baqara An Introduction to the Quran
Emmanuel College Toronto School of Theology
Fall 2016
Reflection Paper
Maddinan ? Al Nesa
Seyed M. Haghshenas
Although Al-Nesa means ?women? in Arabic and almost one fifth of the verses are considering female gender in social affairs like marriage and heritage, it is mainly (144 verses) discussing and explaining worshiping Allah. Beside different quantities, the qualities of the two main topics (whether social affairs or obeying God encouragement) are also different and it seems that many social judgements about women are already abrogated. So contradictory with what the name proposes, the chapter mainly explains worshiping God and God?s characteristics. After an introduction of the chapter, the main topics are discussed in the following paragraphs.
It is the fourth chapter of the Holy Book. Being composed of 176 verses, it starts in Juz
4 and after passing over the 5th one, ends in Juz 6. So its volume is more than a Juz or >1/30 of the Quran. As all Maddinan revelations, this chapter is also a long one with mixed subjects that may happen in an urban community. The verses have different sizes, a few have only one phrase but at the same time some have more than 10 parts. Some parts are only repeating while they may appear to confirm by reasoning or emphasizing. The Sura initiates by a verse addressing people and inviting them to obey their God and finishes with a verse about dividing heir between family members and relatives. Again the beginning verse is a sign of importance for its topic.
Looking at how verses start, three inclusios are obvious, however it is very hard to choose a practical indication for them. Looking more carefully to whole verses, most probably some other meaningful phrases would pop up.
is the first one that is the starting phrase for verses 44 and 51. And surprisingly another set of inclusion starts in between from the verse number 48,
These two phrases initiate two verses ? 48 and 116 ? to surround 67 verses and all 69 verses are about Allah and worshiping except only 68 that will come as my best verse. And they end with a similar phrase to form two verses with three common parts and one different endings,
(١ Two repetitions of a phrase has sandwiched and emphasized two related middle parts. The verse number 131 which shows this intrinsic emphasis, depicts another extrinsic template by being captured by a former verse ? 126 ? and a following one ? 132 ? which both have the same phrase. Moreover, an almost similar phrase is repeated in verse number 171. Going back to 131, the enhanced part claims that the prophet followers are not different than the people of the book and should rectify their beliefs.
Repetitions and Inclusios to-be are inside the worshiping verses but there is only one verse penetrating this region that is about moral issues that is my best verse all over this chapter. Interestingly enough its place is numerically and mathematically is midpoint between 48 and 116 and it is the verse 86. (٦ ?When ye are greeted with a greeting, greet ye with a better than it or return it. Lo! Allah taketh count of all things.?
? O ye who believe! ? is the beginning address of five verses 19. 29.43. 94, 135 and 144.
(٧ (٨ And these two are the smallest verses and both contain a phrase with 19 letters. 67>>>19+4 and 68>>>19 For counting letters the first word of 67 should be ignored and the meaning is not altered.
? O mankind! ? is mentioned three times to launch a verse the first one is the first verse, and the second 170th verses and the last one is 174. The former invites the people to believe in God and the latter introduces the prophet to be followed.
Some famous verses will be discussed simultaneously with the main topics. However a general one will come here (٢ ? Will they not then ponder on the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah they would have found therein much incongruity.? This verse has recently triggered many Q,As among scholars to find a response for contradictions that a good one is a new definition for revelation and transference.
Now, let us consider the portion about worshiping. They compose a little more than four fifth of Al-Nesa (144 verses out of 176). One of these verses is the first verse but verses about social affairs are succeeding and a few of them penetrate the worshiping part and the Sura finishes with a verse discussing heritage. This penetrating format also happens vice versa when a few worshiping verses interrupt the initial social block. For instance, the verses 17 and 18 are not homogenous with the block because they are about repenting among the worshiping verses.
The worshiping block starts with the verse 44 that is the first inclusion. It claims that some people of the book has changed scriptures. Many verses afterward address the Jewish or the people of the book. And Muslims are assimilated to them in a sandwiched portion. St. Mary and his son are named to say negative feedbacks about their audience as well as many prophets in a row. The first prophet who appears is Abraham in 54. Four verses 74 ? 77 are encouraging believers to fight in favor of God. 100 is positive toward immigrations.
At last, 44 verses are about social affairs. They can be classified to those which are related to gender differences such as heritage and those that are not gender dependent like donations. In many situations genders are the same but in family affairs, they are different and some cases will be discussed. Nobody nowadays withstand an obvious discrimination such as those that mentioned in the chapter. Those cases are about marriage or heritage. Some verses suggest sharing of wealth with the poor and seem to be nonsense in a modern community as social insurance prohibits unfulfilled needs.
According to the first verse, it is still obscure whether Adam or Eve has been created in advance. Instead of a name, a character is used that is female in Arabic. I think the ambiguity is intentional. Furthermore, this verse is abrogating many following and discriminating verses because there is no clue for superiority of male gender. From biologic point of view, it is easier to create a woman at first if a supposed deity is going to form a couple because a she lacks only Y chromosomes that can be added. I think creation is more like adding than removing.
Some verses about forbidden forms of marriage that are useless now.
is very famous but I see it ironically. Nobody expect God to provide a reason but all reasons should work to approve the claim. Here the reason does not make sense and the verse is abrogated. Superficially it claim that men are superior but the reason is judging men not comparing two genders.
Overall Al-Nesa means women and it includes some verses that judges them inferiorly but they are abrogated by some other verses of the same chapter or even the even verse. So I reflect my idea that this Sura is about God and worshiping.
Ps, I have used Access software for data management and I share it.And the file is for public.