A suggestion

unknownuser

O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Peace,

Ok, so I was deeply studying 3350, as it is related to my research, and I saw, that maybe we aren't understanding it correctly. If you read it without thinking much, you can see that Allah has permitted, the Prophet his wives, MMA from those turned over to him by Allah , women from paternal and maternal sides who migrated with him, etc. and so on. And we take it to mean that Allah has allowed the Prophet to make such marriages, in other words, we see this in a future tense. Well that's what comes to your mind when you first read the verse, now take a look at the next two verses

You may put off whom you please of them, and you may take to you whom you please, and whom you desire of those whom you had separated provisionally; no blame attaches to you; this is most proper, so that their eyes may be cool and they may not grieve, and that they should be pleased, all of them with what you give them, and Allah knows what is in your hearts; and Allah is Knowing, Forbearing.

Thou canst defer whom thou wilt of them and receive unto thee whom thou wilt, and whomsoever thou desirest of those whom thou hast set aside (temporarily), it is no sin for thee (to receive her again); that is better; that they may be comforted and not grieve, and may all be pleased with what thou givest them. Allah knoweth what is in your hearts (O men), and Allah is ever Forgiving, Clement.

Thou mayest defer (the turn of) any of them that thou pleasest, and thou mayest receive any thou pleasest and there is no blame on thee if thou invite one whose (turn) thou hadst set aside. This were nigher to the cooling of their eyes, the prevention of their grief, and their satisfaction - that of all of them - with that which thou hast to give them and Allah knows (all) that is in your hearts and Allah is All-Knowing, Most Forbearing.

It is not allowed to you to take women afterwards, nor that you should change them for other wives, though their beauty be pleasing to you, except what your right hand possesses and Allah is Watchful over all things.

It is not allowed thee to take (other) women henceforth, nor that thou shouldst change them for other wives even though their beauty pleased thee, save those whom thy right hand possesseth. And Allah is ever Watcher over all things.

It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as handmaidens) and Allah doth watch over all things.

Now pay attention, 3352, says that the Prophet can't make more marriages after the time of this revelation, if we admit that 3350-3352 were reveled at the same time, then it gives a very illogical look, that one moment Allah is giving the list of all women he may marry, and the next moment he says that he can't marry any more women. The only explanation is that both these verses were reveled at different times. BUT WAIT, that ain't the ONLY explanation. I studied really hard, I'm not an expert in Arabic so this understanding might be incorrect, but I take 3350 to talk about the past tense. I understand that by 3350, Allah is not saying that He has allowed marriages or coupling with the following types of women, but He is saying, that He has ALREADY ALLOWED, as in, ALLOWED in the past tense, coupling with the prophet's wives of the following types. Maybe If I translate it myself, it'll make sense

O Prophet, verily We have made lawful to you your wives

Those to whom you have given/gave a reward
Those who belong(ed) to those who you rightfully possess from the spoils of war
Those who are the daughters of your paternal uncles and aunts, and who are the daughters of your maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated with you
That believing woman (The word used is Amra-at, which is a singular word, I think, if that is true, then this also supports my point) who devotes herself to a prophet, given that he wants to marry her - This being only for you instead of the rest of the believers

After that, Allah in 3352 says From this day onward, you may not have any more wives

Technically, what is happening is that Allah is saying, that all the wives you have married, then He lists all the types of women he has married, are permissible to you for coupling with, and now you may not have anymore wives. This probably happens to a Prophet, there is definitely some reason behind this prohibition.

unknownuser

I really need feedback....

Thanks

loxbox13

SLAVES = ASRA

it is obvious , thatthe subject of these ayahs, has nothing to do with WIVES , because AZWAJ = PARTIZANS , just as ZAWJ = pair, partner

the translation was made by sick and Evil people to destroy the meaning of the quran, as simple as that

PROOF ?
567
And you been three parties

Do you go to Jannah or Hell , in three couples ? or three married people ?? but it is obvious, three parties

unknownuser

SLAVES = ASRA

it is obvious , thatthe subject of these ayahs, has nothing to do with WIVES , because AZWAJ = PARTIZANS , just as ZAWJ = pair, partner

the translation was made by sick and Evil people to destroy the meaning of the quran, as simple as that

PROOF ?
567
And you been three parties

Do you go to Jannah or Hell , in three couples ? or three married people ?? but it is obvious, three parties

Finally, someone replied.

Ok, so given that Azwaj means pair. But still, even if it means 'Pairs' do you mind answering the following questions? I am NOT debating, nor am I mad at you or angry or anything, in fact, I like your point, so no need to get all angry and cranky lol

I. Allah has 'Permitted' the Prophet to do what with the following women?
II. Will it make sense if things go like this

We have made permitted your Azwaj those to whom you have given Ajr, and from MMA ...

Where the phrase 'Those to whom you have given Ajr, and from MMA, and cousins ... ' is listing the different TYPES of Azwaj, rather than Azwaj only reffering to those to whom he has given Ajr?

You getting my point?

savage_carrot

Edited.

unknownuser

Edited

savage_carrot

Edited

unknownuser

Edited

savage_carrot

O Prophet, verily We have made lawful to you your wives

Those to whom you have given/gave a reward
Those who belong(ed) to those who you rightfully possess from the spoils of war
Those who are the daughters of your paternal uncles and aunts, and who are the daughters of your maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated with you
That believing woman (The word used is Amra-at, which is a singular word, I think, if that is true, then this also supports my point) who devotes herself to a prophet, given that he wants to marry her - This being only for you instead of the rest of the believers

After that, Allah in 3352 says From this day onward, you may not have any more wives

Technically, what is happening is that Allah is saying, that all the wives you have married, then He lists all the types of women he has married, are permissible to you for coupling with, and now you may not have anymore wives. This probably happens to a Prophet, there is definitely some reason behind this prohibition.
Just pointing out what caught my eye, haven't studied the verses in detail etc. Not sure what you mean if he doesn't want to marry her then devoting wouldn't exist? And the translation here seems like it was ongoing? As in...if he wants to marry her...so how does that fit with already married?

unknownuser

I also thought about what you are saying, but I realized that in that part of the verse which seems 'Ongoing', God only for that particular phrase has changed from second person to a third person conservation. He is not saying 'And believing women who devote their whole selves to you, given that/if/because you want to marry/couple with them', but instead 'And the believing women who devote their whole selves to a prophet, given that/if/because the prophet wants/decides to marry/couple with them'

Can you see the difference? Also keep in mind that while mentioning devoting Allah uses the word 'Linabi' that means 'To a prophet', while later when mentioning the decision, He uses 'In Irad anabi' that means 'Given that/If/Because the prophet decides' although in the whole verse Allah is talking directly to the Prophet. The terms 'A prophet' and 'The prophet' show that Allah is narrating info on prophets in general and is not specifically referring to the Prophet Muhammad. Thus I came to the conclusion that here just like all the previous mentioned types of women in this verse, Allah here too is simply telling one of the types of women the Prophet married. As for my saying that you found confusing, what I meant was that a one cannot devote oneself to another without the other approving the act of devotion, as devote here actually refers to marriage/coupling, so I cannot marry a woman if the woman doesn't want to marry me, and if I do, then it wouldn't be called marriage to begin with, but this is a trivial opinion of mine, don't pay attention to this, but focus on the rest of the verse .

savage_carrot

I also thought about what you are saying, but I realized that in that part of the verse which seems 'Ongoing', God only for that particular phrase has changed from second person to a third person conservation. He is not saying 'And believing women who devote their whole selves to you, given that/if/because you want to marry/couple with them', but instead 'And the believing women who devote their whole selves to a prophet, given that/if/because the prophet wants/decides to marry/couple with them'

Can you see the difference? Also keep in mind that while mentioning devoting Allah uses the word 'Linabi' that means 'To a prophet', while later when mentioning the decision, He uses 'In Irad anabi' that means 'Given that/If/Because the prophet decides' although in the whole verse Allah is talking directly to the Prophet. The terms 'A prophet' and 'The prophet' show that Allah is narrating info on prophets in general and is not specifically referring to the Prophet Muhammad. Thus I came to the conclusion that here just like all the previous mentioned types of women in this verse, Allah here too is simply telling one of the types of women the Prophet married. As for my saying that you found confusing, what I meant was that a one cannot devote oneself to another without the other approving the act of devotion, as devote here actually refers to marriage/coupling, so I cannot marry a woman if the woman doesn't want to marry me, and if I do, then it wouldn't be called marriage to begin with, but this is a trivial opinion of mine, don't pay attention to this, but focus on the rest of the verse ) .

I see what you're saying. Interesting. I wouldn't say it conclusively disallows another interpretation at this point, but it's one way of looking at it. Would like to see more discussion on it as this verse has always been a problematic one for me to understand.

unknownuser

I see what you're saying. Interesting. I wouldn't say it conclusively disallows another interpretation at this point, but it's one way of looking at it. Would like to see more discussion on it as this verse has always been a problematic one for me to understand.

Yup, this is a verse which has confused many people. Of course, there can be different interpretations for it, however the one that I just brought kind of - or at least according to me - defeats any sort of absurd or ungodly conclusions. As if you keep in mind 3352, and interpret this verse to refer to the past rather than the future, it all makes sense.

loxbox13

Finally, someone replied.

1.K by slaves I'm including 'MMA' 'ASRAA' 'AFAULLAH' 'ABD' 'RQB' 'FATAYATIKUM' 'AMAT' etc. this verse contains the word 'MMA' from 'AFAULLAH', so technically it is related to my reasearch

Ok, so given that Azwaj means pair. But still, even if it means 'Pairs' do you mind answering the following questions? I am NOT debating, nor am I mad at you or angry or anything, in fact, I like your point, so no need to get all angry and cranky lol

I. Allah has 'Permitted' the Prophet to do what with the following women?
II. Will it make sense if things go like this

We have made permitted your Azwaj those to whom you have given Ajr, and from MMA ...

Where the phrase 'Those to whom you have given Ajr, and from MMA, and cousins ... ' is listing the different TYPES of Azwaj, rather than Azwaj only reffering to those to whom he has given Ajr?

You getting my point?

Zawjayn means , a pair, but AZWAJ means a parti, a group of a kind, for exemple, you, me and all people in freemind that share the same idea, we are AZWAJ , , and to you, we are all ZAWJUK, meaningyour kind, your pairs

the prophet wasn't allowed to marry any on this verses, and these verses has nothing to do with marriage
and stil, FATAYATIKUM is feminin or FITYA , and has nothing to do with slaves, FATAYATIKUM , means your daughters, could be with a specific daughter, as your are her father, or could be all girls of your people, are called your daughters

and nisaa doesn't means only women
there is one point very very important , the difference between the quran, and arabic languge, or all other languages , when there is a group of men and women, they are called as femeles, the felemle goes before the male,
for exemple, in arabic language, 3 men ad 4 women, when they're calle uopn, it says HUMM , just like any other language, but in the quran it's quiet the opposite, a group of male and femeles are called as HUNNA

unknownuser

Zawjayn means , a pair, but AZWAJ means a parti, a group of a kind, for exemple, you, me and all people in freemind that share the same idea, we are AZWAJ , , and to you, we are all ZAWJUK, meaningyour kind, your pairs

the prophet wasn't allowed to marry any on this verses, and these verses has nothing to do with marriage
and stil, FATAYATIKUM is feminin or FITYA , and has nothing to do with slaves, FATAYATIKUM , means your daughters, could be with a specific daughter, as your are her father, or could be all girls of your people, are called your daughters

and nisaa doesn't means only women
there is one point very very important , the difference between the quran, and arabic languge, or all other languages , when there is a group of men and women, they are called as femeles, the felemle goes before the male,
for exemple, in arabic language, 3 men ad 4 women, when they're calle uopn, it says HUMM , just like any other language, but in the quran it's quiet the opposite, a group of male and femeles are called as HUNNA

The reason why I used the word 'Slave' was that many people translate those words as 'Slaves', so I used it in a sarcastic way. I don't agree that Fatayatikum, MMA, ABD, AMAAT etc. mean slave
I went through 567, and through Abdul Mannan Omar's dictionary of the Quran that is a compilation of all classical Arabic dictionaries, this is what he said regarding Zawj and Azwaj

Zauj plu. Azw?j
Companion; Mate; Spouse;
Husband or Wife; Individual
when consorting with another;
That in which individuals are
united; kind; Species; Class or
sex; Pair; Couple; Each of a
pair. Zaujain Two individuals
paired together; each
pair. Zawaja To join together,
give in marriage,
couple, unite as a fellow, pair.

So if we use classical Arabic dictionaries, it can mean both Companions/Mates or Kinds/Classes, in other words, fit in with both 3350 and 567, however, I do believe you have a good point there. So based on your rendering of the word Azwaj, do you mind explaining 3350-52? You don't really have to translate each and every word, just give me an overview of what exactly is happening in those verses. Thanks, and no, I'm not debating or being sarcastic or anything.

Can you give me one or two references where Allah has used Hunn to refer to a group of males and females? And one or two references where Nisa doesn't only mean women? Thanks

Mazhar

We know the concept of "post facto sanctions", and authentication-sanctification-regularization-legalizing the acts done in the past or abruptly in order to meet the emergency situations-requirements. The Ayah talks about the acts that have been done in the past.

O you the Elevated and Chosen One ,
It is a fact that We have affirmed it lawful for you, all your wives whom you have already paid their wedding gifts-determined and settled obligations.
They include the one who came under your protection and responsibility-believing married woman in the fold of non-believer who migrated to believing society whom Allah the Exalted turned her upon you.
And daughters of your paternal uncle, and the daughters of your paternal aunts;
and daughters of your maternal uncle and daughters of your maternal aunts; who migrated with you.
Moreover, it is affirmed lawful that Believing Woman who proposed herself for the Elevated and Chosen One when the Elevated and Chosen One had decided that he should affectionately take her in the fold of Nikah/wedding.
This sanctification notification is exclusively and solely for you, the Elevated and Chosen One exclusive of the permission for other believers.
We certainly know what We have prescribed for them-ordinary believers the time/occasion bound in the matter of mates from protected families and the right possessed by them upon house-maid-male servants with permission of their family/believing married woman in the fold of non-believer who has migrated to believing society.
This pronouncement of sanctification of your marriages executed in the past is for the purpose that any objection causing disconcert-contraction might not lie against you.
And Allah the Exalted is repeatedly Overlooking/Forgiving, the Merciful.

good_logic

Peace all.
For those of you who struggled to understand 3350 from the above post, like me , here is a different translation that may help?

O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid their due dowry, or what you already have, as granted to you by GOD. Also lawful for you in marriage are the daughters of your father's brothers, the daughters of your father's sisters, the daughters of your mother's brothers, the daughters of your mother's sisters, who have emigrated with you. Also, if a believing woman gave herself to the prophet - by forfeiting the dowry - the prophet may marry her without a dowry, if he so wishes. However, her forfeiting of the dowry applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses or what they already have. This is to spare you any embarrassment. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

Peace.

unknownuser

Thanks for sharing your interpretations Mazhar and good logic, looking forward for more

Mazhar

Thanks for sharing your interpretations Mazhar and good logic, looking forward for more

However the good logic in translating a text in the target language is that the verbs of the original text may not be substituted, like past transanction as a future proposition.

unknownuser

However the good logic in translating a text in the target language is that the verbs of the original text may not be substituted, like past transanction as a future proposition.

That's the reason why I came here, to see what people like you all think about this verse and if translating it the way you did and the way I interpreted this verse makes sense from the Arabic's point of view or not. All I know is that there are perfect and imperfect verbs in Arabic so I need your help in understanding the grammar of this verse and it's interpretation that would make logical sense

Mazhar

That's the reason why I came here, to see what people like you all think about this verse and if translating it the way you did and the way I interpreted this verse makes sense from the Arabic's point of view or not. All I know is that there are perfect and imperfect verbs in Arabic so I need your help in understanding the grammar of this verse and it's interpretation that would make logical sense

The grammar-syntactic analysis is available in PDF format on internet for free download. Leed Varsity are working on it. Unfortunately none of such book have yet been translated which could have facilitated parsing of sentences quickly. One analysis of this Ayah is

? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ?? ?? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??
?? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ? ?

But please note that this is not exhaustive since author is presuming that the reader knows about other things which he escapes mentioning, like the pronoun in the linkage-relative clauses.