Status of Mothers
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I've had this on my mind for a while. I know somewhere in the Quran, it advises to be & do good towards our parents. I think that's the general rule, and am not sure if the Quran goes into more detail than that, but for some reason I doubt it. I also don't not think it says to love your father more than your mother or vice versa, despite what hadith says.
The thing is, I'm very convinced mainstream Islam overrates the status of mothers in particular, moreso than it underrates the status of wives, which says something big. I also have a gut feeling this obsession (seeming close to worship at times) came from Judaism, and I'm not sure why. I think I remember a Jewish teaching being that mothers should be the most cherished beings in life, or something like that.
The point of this topic is to ask, where is the line drawn? The Quran makes that point regarding treatment of your parents, though it seems that it's assumed your parents' treatment of you is that of typical caring parents and aren't idol-worshippers (otherwise, why would God care that you're good to them or not? Especially if they try to get you to blind-follow like them, and be part of an idol-worshipping religion). Consider the case of Dave Pelzer, a victim of child abuse who wrote a book about how his mother made survival for him during his childhood an extremely difficult task. This is a mom who did pretty much everything she thought would make the child suffer. This is an extreme example obviously, though used for a reason. It is that I don't think said child is obliged to even befriend such a person in this case, mother or not, and I don't think one person here will disagree, so there must be a line to draw somewhere.
It is not like we must love our mother and/or father only due to their status of being parents and regardless of circumstances. That'd be ridiculous. It seems the returning love to them depends on whether or not they're doing that which God wants, and that he's pleased w/ them, since otherwise, wouldn't he want us, if anything, to separate from (if we're not dependent on them) and not even befriend them? To use my parents as an example, for my life they've been my financial support. They've given no spiritual (since I don't blind-follow like them, and have a free mind) and hardly much emotional help; in fact, much of my emotional grief comes from them. The other thing to note I think is overlooked by many is how most parents choose to go through a life-long commitment of having kids and raising them, supporting them in the process, so they grow to be like them (but in addition richer, if parents are poor). The child never asked for a life nor for life support; it is something the parents decides for him/her, kind of like how parents (in Islam) choose to have boys mutilated before they're even able to speak a word (to say leave me the way I was created, and not another victim of the Devil's promise in the Quran to alter God's creation). Considering all this, I think a number of parents have nerve to expect a compensation from the son/daughter for the efforts & support the parents themselves decided to give, especially if the son/daughter grew up, only to wish they've never been born solely due to the amount of suffering they've endured (which would need to be a lot, physical or mental, to desire death so much; the Quran even talks about people desiring death from suffering in a good way IIRC).
My particular case resembles that of the character Rose Dewitt Bukater from Titanic, and her mother Ruth. Basically, Ruth "loves" her daughter a lot. The reason love's in quotes, is since it's conditional based on what choices Rose makes with her life, and if they don't coincide with Ruth's dream (not Rose's), such as having Rose marry who Ruth wants her to (so that Rose, but more importantly Ruth herself, can live in riches), Rose living the life of an inactive obedient housewife, etc., then Ruth's motherly love doesn't exist. It's arguable it even turns to hatred, but would anyone here call this love? If you love a person so much, say a son, daughter, girlfriend or whatever, don't you desire them happiness and aren't so much thinking of YOUR dreams and hopes regarding them? Say hello to my mother everyone.
I've been somewhat brainwashed in mainstream Islam to give unsurpassed care and love towards my mother, though considering that she is factually an idol-worshipper (blind-follows Sunni Islam 80-90% and pretty much never uses her brain in the matter, despite several advices from me to think freely and search for the truth, and accept what is making most sense), and pretty much only desires that I, in the future, become a similar blind-following idol-worshipper, and living the life of a typical married Muslim man with Muslim kids who are to be genitally mutilated at birth in the name of God, and be the next generation of idol-worshippers and blind-followers of mainstream Islam...what amount of love and care, on a scale of 0 to 10, with 10 being the greatest that can be given, would you all say God wants me to give? Completely honest I would say a 3; 4 best case, since she isn't as hopeless as many mainstream Muslims to give a 0 or 1, but hopeless nonetheless. As for my father, he's not so different than her to be honest.
Thanks all for the replies regarding the matter.
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Salaam,
I believe that the reason they have the status of the mothers so high, is because they have somehow to compensate for the awful other things they say about women.
The Quran says that you have to be good for the ones who raise you and never say bad things to them. If their approach lead you astray then you can do the same as Ibrahim, but always treat them good.
The big question now is can you call them WALIDAT if they didn't do what is in 2233, 1724 etc hmm
Anyway inshaAllah this will help
3114 And We enjoined man regarding his parents. His mother bore him with hardship upon hardship, and his weaning takes two years. You shall give thanks to Me, and to your parents. To Me is the final destiny.
3115 If they strive to make you set up any partners besides Me, then do not obey them. But continue to treat them amicably in this world. You shall follow only the path of those who have sought Me. Ultimately, you all return to Me, then I will inform you of everything you have done.1723 And your Lord decreed that you shall not serve except He, and do good to your parents. When one of them or both of them reach old age, do not say to them a word of disrespect nor shout at them, but say to them a kind saying.
1724 And lower for them the wing of humility through mercy, and say "My Lord, have mercy upon them as they have raised me when I was young."Salaam,
Bender -
So true about the "having to compensate for the awful other things they say about women" thing. That thought came to me years ago in fact. I always thought my mother liked that lofty status since that's the only "loftiness" women have in mainstream Islam period, so naturally my mother tries taking as much advantage from this as possible. Too bad I'm not a blind-following mainstream Muslim though. I act towards her according to what I see is fair/just and that's a lot better than what mainstream Islam suggests. She also sometimes mentions she wishes not to live to an old age, and that she die much earlier just to avoid living the life of an elderly women who must be nursed, but when I talk about how desperate I am for death for my inarguably worse circumstances, she has the nerve to get mad & sh*t. I did that once years ago, and you can bet I'll never bring that up again to her, especially when every now and then she strictly warns against doing things or living in a way that even might cause some kind of depression. Unknowingly to her of course, I've had depression for who knows how long, and on a scale of -10 to 10 with -10 being the most one could desire death, and 10 being the opposite, I'm at around a -5. In my recent life it's never exceeded a -2. Every couple of years I notice it spikes to a -7/-8 due to something that makes me insane, most likely love-relationship-related.
Screw her.
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In sunnism "respecting" your mothers are just empty words. Basically they emphasize that by words in order to get Muslim women to beget a lot of children because thats the only way they can get some verbal respect. Women are considered birth machines as you may know. But as I said these are only empty words as per there are tons of Hadith claiming that women are stupid (that includes mothers as well) and that's basically why the father hold on the authority in the house because he is believed to be clever due to his gender. I do not think you respect your mother of you think it's ok for your dad to beat your mother as hadith support wife Beating as well. Thirdly a mother is supposed to be depended on her son, and according to me you are not respecting your mother when you control her(it should be the other way around). Sunnism regard the children as the possession of the father and the mother is more like a machine the father lent for his seeds. That's not respect either as per logic, a child belongs as much -or maybe more - to the mother as to the father. So basically the thing in sunnism is make a woman believe that being a birth machine is what gives her respect although it doesn't change the fact that would remain stupid and hence unable to make her own choices . It's basically bs sick crap. In the real world, both parents should share the both honor of being a parent if they handle the responsibility of raising up another human being. Respect is something you gain not something you are automatically entitled to
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Chapter (4) srat l-nisa (The Women)
Sahih International O mankind, fear your Lord, who created you from one soul and created from it its mate and dispersed from both of them many men and women. And fear Allah , through whom you ask one another, and the wombs. Indeed Allah is ever, over you, an Observer.
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"Fear the wombs"? -\
Like it or not full time mothers enjoy high status in Islam more than those mothers who leave hard work to child minders and run back to their job soon afer giving birth.
3114 And We enjoined man regarding his parents. His mother bore him with hardship upon hardship, and his weaning takes two years. You shall give thanks to Me, and to your parents. To Me is the final destiny
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Salaam,
I am with ES and Bender on this one. Though I do agree that the exaggerated status of mothers is a concession for the generally shabby way women are perceived and treated.
Farida, not quite sure how you infer from that verse that women who go to work are somehow lesser than stay at home mums. Sometimes people do not have a choice in this matter due to being widowed, divorced and suffering from financial hardship and some personalities are simply not suited to full time child rearing and need the additional challenge of study/work and are great at juggling work and family.
Really whatever works for each woman and family.
Peace.
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Like it or not full time mothers enjoy high status in Islam more than those mothers who leave hard work to child minders and run back to their job soon afer giving birth.
3114 And We enjoined man regarding his parents. His mother bore him with hardship upon hardship, and his weaning takes two years. You shall give thanks to Me, and to your parents. To Me is the final destiny
It depends on the person's character. My maternal grandomother couldn't simply stand children. She had six, but even though modest people, they did hire a childminder for the children and my grandmother went to work in the fields, just to be away from the kids. She much preferred working in the fields to minding the children. She was very much loved by her children and when old and sick she was taken care of by them when with great devotion.
A mother is not a nursery employee. She may not be fond of children and still be a great mother, just the same as a father. Many fathers are great and nurse children, others are not like that, but they may be devoted. Each person takes care of their offspring according to ther capacity and inclination, and the same goes with mothers.
On the other hand the Qur'an also gives the choice not to suckle the children and does not say that not doing it diminishes in any way the motherhood or the motherness of anybody, doesn't say they should be loved less for that or that that is a shortcoming of them. The devotedness of each person depends on the make up of the person and devotion may be demonstrated very differently by different persons.
Salaam
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"Fear the wombs"? -
That is the translation of Ittaqw, that is when said about God, fear God or be conscious of God, I prefer this, so it would be
Be conscious of Goid,... and be conscious of the wombs.
Which as I understand means that we should bear very much in mind honouring motherhood and giving it a high social standing and status, so that motherhood does not become a hero-exercise, which very often is the case, and which is the reason why in some countries birth rate plunges, because the demands on women become so unreasonable and heavy that motherhood, and sometimes fatherhood too, is completely discouraged and in fact it is punished. Or motherhood turns out to be a trap, where if you are a mother (or just a wife)you you must rennounce other aspirations (usually com wifehood), but not work, provided that work is menial and badly paid. Wmen are never prevented from badly paid work. When people say that women or mothers should not worok, they always mean well paid work. Nobody worries about women in awfully paid jobs or unstable or vulnerable jobs.
Of course motherhood justifies that too, I suppose.
If a society wants mothers it must be conscious of motherhood and put their purse (and everything else) where their mouth is. Lipservice is an insult. The selfsacrifice demanded by motherhood without the corresponding acknowledgement compensation and respect is plain exploitation and cheating.
Salaam
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It depends on the person's character. My maternal grandomother couldn't simply stand children. She had six, but even though modest people, they did hire a childminder for the children and my grandmother went to work in the fields, just to be away from the kids. She much preferred working in the fields to minding the children. She was very much loved by her children and when old and sick she was taken care of by them when with great devotion.
A mother is not a nursery employee. She may not be fond of children and still be a great mother, just the same as a father. Many fathers are great and nurse children, others are not like that, but they may be devoted. Each person takes care of their offspring according to ther capacity and inclination, and the same goes with mothers.
On the other hand the Qur'an also gives the choice not to suckle the children and does not say that not doing it diminishes in any way the motherhood or the motherness of anybody, doesn't say they should be loved less for that or that that is a shortcoming of them. The devotedness of each person depends on the make up of the person and devotion may be demonstrated very differently by different persons.
Salaam
Salaam Huruf
Your maternal grandmother was very lucky to have had a supportive family and I am sure she was a good mother but, as Ayat mentions, hardship upon hardship, and his weaning takes two years which, to my understanding, is a reminder to children what she has gone through raising kids. Maybe this reminder is there because a mother, who devoted all her life to her children is often taken for granted, whereas those who keep their offspring at arms length have their children running after them for love and attention.
With my post I was not in anyway judging mothers but pointing out that Allah acknowledges the mother's burden of the weaning period, which streches up to two years. I know that the Qur'an gives us the choice not to suckle the children it in any way diminishing motherhood, but there is a difference between the mother who affords the children her time and effort and the one who doesn't. Btw. I was not able to suckle all my children so I know the difference between the two.Peace
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As someone said respect in general has to be earned. It does NOT depend solely on a blood relation, and you can't agree with one person saying this (Bender) and another saying the complete opposite. The Quran right there pointed out under what circumstance you should treat your mother/father in a good manner, i.e. if she breast-feeds, takes care of you and so forth. Dave Peltzer (if you read where I mentioned him in the opening post) obviously has no obligation to even like his mother.
It also mentions that you should reject them if they're idol-worshippers, which practice-wise my mother is, but just continue to treat them nicely (which I do). It also doesn't mention anywhere how that relationship should change considering she gave consent and paid to get me genitally and sexually mutilated, losing around 70% of bodily pleasure when considering the amount of neural and vascular damage, i.e. paying and giving consent to let that which Satan promised to do, which is to get people to alter God's creation. I'm almost positive God then in this case wouldn't even give a rat's ass if I'm "amicable" to her or not.
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The point is that life is not the army by conscription. That all persons have their existence justified because God wants it, not because they fullfill any social expectations of anybody. Not all women enjoy suckling, so whose who enjoy it, good for them, but we cannot pretend that they are more meritorious that on who donsn't suckle. For one it is not effort but enjoyment. This is just an example that we cannot draw a chart where we get points for this and that. Thak God, persons are varied, and a person may be a failure en something like suckling and then turn out on the other hand to be an outstanding friend where others can run for help advice and support.
Motherhood or fatherhood is not anything in particular, but taking up or assuming responsibility for the good of the children. How they get there is their business, and nobody can judge better than them what is most suitable given their circumstances, their temperaments, their possibilities and their environment. Whether there is a granfather or mother who helps, what kind of community they live in, etc.
In villages, when I was a child, rearing children was not so much of a burden for a single person, because from very early age, they run around and all the people share in looking after them and watching that they do nothing dangerous.
Modern city life, with people closeted in apartments and when children go out there must always be some adult watching them (mostly one adult per child or couple of children) is the most unsocial and uneconomical way of rearing children. Nurseries are an alternative, but I find that the old way where people of all ages and condition shared in it were better. When it is just one adult in charge for the whole day day after day it is maddening and too much. Work is rest by comparison. I find it disproportionate and not all that good for the children. But of course, even in that it depends on each individuality.
Of course acknowledgement of the two years suckling is a must when it is done. Just as the pregnancy and delivery, which some times are very trying, yes hardship upon hardship. It is es matter of justice and also of honesty. The
Salaam
Salaam
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As someone said respect in general has to be earned. It does NOT depend solely on a blood relation, and you can't agree with one person saying this (Bender) and another saying the complete opposite. The Quran right there pointed out under what circumstance you should treat your mother/father in a good manner, i.e. if she breast-feeds, takes care of you and so forth. Dave Peltzer (if you read where I mentioned him in the opening post) obviously has no obligation to even like his mother.
It also mentions that you should reject them if they're idol-worshippers, which practice-wise my mother is, but just continue to treat them nicely (which I do). It also doesn't mention anywhere how that relationship should change considering she gave consent and paid to get me genitally and sexually mutilated, losing around 70% of bodily pleasure when considering the amount of neural and vascular damage, i.e. paying and giving consent to let that which Satan promised to do, which is to get people to alter God's creation. I'm almost positive God then in this case wouldn't even give a rat's ass if I'm "amicable" to her or not.
Carlee, I am sorry to hear about your mother sanctioning F.G.M. on you. Unfortunately, there are certain cultural attitudes and practices which are sometimes so ingrained within our communities, people, internally, cannot objectively view the abhorrence of such things. We can only hope to be patient with our parents if not to try and change their attitudes. But before you can think about having any sort of relationship with your mother or with anyone else, you should heal yourself. It seems like you have had some traumatic experiences in life, especially involving your mother, but to be able to live a fruitful life, a worthwhile life, first you need to be happy from within.
Practically, it seems you have also sought advice from a specialist medical practitioner. I don't know whether it's something which you have tried already, but I would suggest counselling/ therapy. I would also try to get in touch with a support group for women affected by F.G.M. Perhaps talking to other women who have been subjected to this horrific torture may help.
Feel free to PM me.
Salaam.