مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ -occurrence by occurence study
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Dear Mazhar
salamI appreciate your serious effort to resolve the riddle regarding MMA, however I have some observations,
- According to your understanding , MMA are the women which are being mentioned in 60-10 as the ones who have fled their disbeliving husbands. These women are actually more burdensome for believers to marry because, not only one has to pay them dowers, but their ex husbands have also to be compensated.
How come they are being recommended as a less burdensome alternate in 4-25?
( 4-25, if you cannot afford to marry a believing" Mohsinnate" then marry a young believing among MMA.......)
- You have translated" Mohsinnate" as married women, (unavailable women for marriage) in 4-24 , but right in the next aya 4-25 you have translated same term "Mohsinate" as"unmarried women" (available women for marriage)
The meanings are exactly opposite and hence can not be understood like that.The term "Mohsinnate" has to have one consistent meaning throughout.
peace
siki
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How are you, it is quite long time meeting you.
- According to your understanding , MMA are the women which are being mentioned in 60-10 as the ones who have fled their disbeliving husbands. These women are actually more burdensome for believers to marry because, not only one has to pay them dowers, but their ex husbands have also to be compensated.
How come they are being recommended as a less burdensome alternate in 4-25?
( 4-25, if you cannot afford to marry a believing" Mohsinnate" then marry a young believing among MMA.......)
Yes because these are not the emigrant married women who are in asylum with Muslim state coming under their authority and responsibility. These are those Women
Take note that whoever amongst you people has not yet self acquired wherewithal enabling that he might take into Matrimonial Bond the Believing Women enjoying Family Protection-the Emigrant Married Believing Women in the Wedlock of a Non Believer having migrated taking asylum in Muslim society-state;
thereby, he may seek from amongst those Woman, upon whom, the right hands of you have the authority and responsibility-guardianship for ordering and managing their affairs, they being in the state of your believing house-maids.Firstly the Married to Non believer woman who has migrated to Muslim state is the women who is under the authority of hands and responsibility of Muslim men-society-you-masuline plural.
Secondly, those women, upon whom, the right hands of you have the authority for ruling, ordering, or managing her affair being your house-maids.
Red part is the circumstantial clause for .
Obviously, these will cause lesser liability for the interested to-be-husband since they are not the Believing married wives of non believers. -
Mazhar salam
I am alright, and how are you doing? still in islamabad?
Read your first post, that seemed on track, was looking forward to analysis of further ayas, but second post seems to go hay wire.
what you are saying is , that MMA are the 60-10 women , but fatayat of MMA in 4-25 are MMa who become House Maids, am i right?
If so, how come?
Fatayats are ( in my opinion) the "young ones" out of the women of a certain/any category.
peace
siki
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, yes in Rawalpindi.
Read your first post, that seemed on track, was looking forward to analysis of further ayas, but second post seems to go hay wire.
what you are saying is , that MMA are the 60-10 women , but fatayat of MMA in 4-25 are MMa who become House Maids, am i right?
is a verbal sentence, it is not a noun restrictively denoting some specific-tangible object, or person-male or female.
It refers to a completed action that yields a situation and relationship between the Subject of Verb and its Object which might be an object, a land, a person worman or man, group of men or women linked back to General Relative Noun.
In 425 it is referring to those women upon whom you gained the authority and responsibility for administering their affair in the capcity of they being your house-maids.results in a dependency relationship.
The text of Qur'aan is succinct par excellence. It expresses with brevity and clarity, with no wasted words. Here, are beyond the reach of a man to seek them in marriage. They include the women of independent families and those believing married women who have taken assylum, by using an active particple as adjective which becomes a descriptive term for .
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salam
is a verbal sentence, it is not a noun restrictively denoting some specific-tangible object, or person-male or female.
It refers to a completed action that yields a situation and relationship between the Subject of Verb and its Object which might be an object, a land, a person woman or man, group of men or women linked back to General Relative Noun.
yes, could be a possibility.
In 425 it is referring to those women upon whom you gained the authority and responsibility for administering their affair in the capacity of they being your house-maids.
Can't understand above, if they are house maids , where did they come from ? and how come someone whom we have employed as a house maid can be used for free sex too? (as per 70-30 )
The text of Qur'aan is succinct par excellence. It expresses with brevity and clarity, with no wasted words. Here, are beyond the reach of a man to seek them in marriage. They include the women of independent families and those believing married women who have taken assylum, by using an active particple as adjective which becomes a descriptive term for .
your explanation of the term Mohsinnate is very vague, kindly elaborate.
The term "mohsinnate" has to have one consistent meaning in all occurrences, and you have not explained the contradiction in 4-24 and 4-25 as per your understanding.peace
siki -
is a verbal sentence, it is not a noun restrictively denoting some specific-tangible object, or person-male or female.
It refers to a completed action that yields a situation and relationship between the Subject of Verb and its Object which might be an object, a land, a person woman or man, group of men or women linked back to General Relative Noun.
yes, could be a possibility.
Nothing else is the possibility. What you think could be another possibility?
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Peace,
The Woman, upon whom, the right hands of you have the authority for ruling, ordering, or managing her affair.
Unless they are your children you have zero authority over anyone unless trying to justify being a slave owner/pimp.
Can't understand above, if they are house maids , where did they come from ? and how come someone whom we have employed as a house maid can be used for free sex too? (as per 70-30 )
your explanation of the term Mohsinnate is very vague, kindly elaborate.
The term "mohsinnate" has to have one consistent meaning in all occurrences, and you have not explained the contradiction in 4-24 and 4-25 as per your understanding.peace
sikiYes need to carefully cross-reference every verse and check for consistency not invent fantasies with house maids.
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Quote from Mazhar on August 03, 2012, 104946 AM
The Woman, upon whom, the right hands of you have the authority for ruling, ordering, or managing her affair.
Unless they are your children you have zero authority over anyone unless trying to justify being a slave owner/pimp.
Pimp is an independent person, a broker, a service provider. He is not under the control and authority of someone who administers his affairs.
House-maids, house servants are a ground reality. Their administration, protection and responsibility is of their house masters. includes both aspects, authority and responsibility for the care upon which one has control.
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Pimp is an independent person, a broker, a service provider. He is not under the control and authority of someone who administers his affairs.
House-maids, house servants are a ground reality. Their administration, protection and responsibility is of their house masters. includes both aspects, authority and responsibility for the care upon which one has control.
I know what a pimp is and what do house maids and you telling them to clean have anything with marriage?
If they are under your "authority" why permission from their family or is the whole family under your thumb?
425 ... so marry them by permission their family and give them their rewards
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I know what a pimp is and what do house maids and you telling them to clean have anything with marriage?
If they are under your "authority" why permission from their family or is the whole family under your thumb?
425 ... so marry them by permission their family and give them their rewards
So it seems superfluous mention of pimp was caused by some irritational state.
You are not reading the pronoun "kum" in the context. A third person who is not rich is given permission to seek from those who are under "your" control and authority---obviously the rich segement who can afford to have house-maids. They are thier .
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So it seems superfluous mention of pimp was caused by some irritational state.
You are not reading the pronoun "kum" in the context. A third person who is not rich is given permission to seek from those who are under "your" control and authority---obviously the rich segement who can afford to have house-maids. They are thier .
No Qur'an is not for rich people and the rational is the same that slave traders and pimps of old and today interpret verses to justify their pompous arrogant elitist attitude thinking themselves preferred over the less fortunate housemaids claiming authority over them thus turn into despicable apes use them as sex slaves as well.
Thus according to your interpretation it's OK to expose yourself to your housemaid if you have money, right?
235 and the ones who they of their private parts guardians
236 only over their spouses or what possess their right hands so indeed they not blameworthy -
Nothing else is the possibility. What you think could be another possibility?
Mazhar Salam
I think the term " Ma Malakat Emnakum" has an idiomatic use throughout Quran, had it been what you are advocating, then your daughters and some time sisters/mothers/aunts would be included in this category too, which obviously cannot be, because of 70-30/23-5,6
peace
siki -
Salam
study of all occurences of MMA in Quran leaves very little chance for them to be anything else but "concubines"
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The category is at par with Azwaj for legal sex ( 73-30, 23-5)
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The category is legal for sex without dower/Ajar (4-24)
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The category is not bounded to be acquired through contract " NKH" anywhere in Quran.
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They are being recommended as a last option(4-25) (and that also only the young ones) for NKH, if No one is willing to give you his/her daughter because of your financial situation (You can bring them home with much less money)
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Socially, they had an unequal (less) status in comparison to other women of society (16-71) and (30-2
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little chance for them to be of category who have fled their disbelieving husbands (60-10) because they do contain young unmarried ones too (4-25) Moreover, God the most compassionate / merciful will logically, never socially downgrade someone who has abandoned her family and immigrated for HIS sake.
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Prophet Mohammad at a certain stage was ordered not to marry or change any more of his women, but was allowed to have more of MMA (33-52)
Were they only women, or males as well ? where did they come from and what constitutes a modern MMA? the subject is open for debate.
peace
siki
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study of all occurences of MMA in Quran leaves very little chance for them to be anything else but "concubines"
Yes it could be, but only for those who are mentally and sexually sick-the debauch. Women are not permissible to be sought for this purpose.
Thereby, you the independent Men with insufficient resources take them into Wed-fold with the prior permission of their Guardians-House Masters, with whom she is the maid servant.
And pay them their Wed-gifts and committed obligations in the well known manner as is paid to a women taken in the protective fold of Matrimonial Bond making her pearl of life-household opposite the style and manner of payment to debauch-professional women who act for the occasional "outflow of water/satisfying sexual lust". And nor in the manner of payment as is made to such women who maintain secret intimate relationship acting as keeps-concubine. -
Thus according to your interpretation it's OK to expose yourself to your housemaid if you have money, right?
I never thought such a stupid statement coming from Noon also. Nowhere I said like that.
Every permissible women is to be sought with money, according to Qur'aan, since financial obligation is inherent part of Nikah-Matrimonial Bond between a man and woman.House-maids are permissible for marriage not for your debauchery and idiot things of exposing your genitals to them.
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Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 032926 PM
So it seems superfluous mention of pimp was caused by some irritational state.You are not reading the pronoun "kum" in the context. A third person who is not rich is given permission to seek from those who are under "your" control and authority---obviously the rich segement who can afford to have house-maids. They are thier .
No Qur'an is not for rich people and the rational is the same that slave traders and pimps of old and today interpret verses to justify their pompous arrogant elitist attitude thinking themselves preferred over the less fortunate housemaids claiming authority over them thus turn into despicable apes use them as sex slaves as well.
Noon, check your irritated mind--too much mathematics seems to have heated the cells, and thereafter, see it what you are talking only to find it nonsense, rubbish.
Rich people and house-maids/male servants is the ground reality. There is in existence a relationship of Master and Servant, acknowledged in Qur'aan also. I do not use the word "slaves" since in Mecca of those days there were but the house-servants and house-maids maintained and looked after by the elite-rich class.
House maid and house servants are under care and responsibility of their house-hold, obviously relatively rich people of society. They are advised not only to arrange marriage of young house-maids but also to give them money to enable them start an independent new house-hold.Qur'aan guides you about the simple ground realities and situation giving injunctions how to handle those.
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I never thought such a stupid statement coming from Noon also. Nowhere I said like that.
Every permissible women is to be sought with money, according to Qur'aan, since financial obligation is inherent part of Nikah-Matrimonial Bond between a man and woman.House-maids are permissible for marriage not for your debauchery and idiot things of exposing your genitals to them.
I never thought Mazhar would post such a nonsensical illogical poorly researched argument about having authority over people like housemaids other than what they are contracted to do which is clean the house.
Yes all women are permissible for marriage -- nurses, doctors, housemaids, or sit at home shop at Gucci, etc., if one can afford her.
Salam
study of all occurences of MMA in Quran leaves very little chance for them to be anything else but "concubines"
- The category is at par with Azwaj for legal sex ( 73-30, 23-5)
Were they only women, or males as well ? where did they come from and what constitutes a modern MMA? the subject is open for debate.
peace
siki
Peace siki -- you are wrong on all accounts; to focus one at a time ? read carefully that the prohibition applies to all believers males and females which they are only accountable for that which is in their control/grasp not being forcefully strip searched.
231 hence succeed the believers
232 the ones who they in their prayers humble
233 and the ones who they about the nonsense averse/turning away
234 and the ones who they of purification works doing
235 and the ones who they of their private parts guardians
236 only over their spouses or what possess their right hands/means so indeed they not blameworthy -
Salam
study of all occurences of MMA in Quran leaves very little chance for them to be anything else but "concubines"
-
The category is at par with Azwaj for legal sex ( 73-30, 23-5)
-
The category is legal for sex without dower/Ajar (4-24)
-
The category is not bounded to be acquired through contract " NKH" anywhere in Quran.
-
They are being recommended as a last option(4-25) (and that also only the young ones) for NKH, if No one is willing to give you his/her daughter because of your financial situation (You can bring them home with much less money)
-
Socially, they had an unequal (less) status in comparison to other women of society (16-71) and (30-2
-
little chance for them to be of category who have fled their disbelieving husbands (60-10) because they do contain young unmarried ones too (4-25) Moreover, God the most compassionate / merciful will logically, never socially downgrade someone who has abandoned her family and immigrated for HIS sake.
-
Prophet Mohammad at a certain stage was ordered not to marry or change any more of his women, but was allowed to have more of MMA (33-52)
Were they only women, or males as well ? where did they come from and what constitutes a modern MMA? the subject is open for debate.
peace
siki
Wao can I have concubines . How nice. How many concubines can I have ? And what If a man doesn't wants to be my concubine, am I allowed to rape him?
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Every permissible women is to be sought with money, according to Qur'aan, since financial obligation is inherent part of Nikah-Matrimonial Bond between a man and woman.
House-maids are permissible for marriage not for your debauchery and idiot things of exposing your genitals to them.
I never thought Mazhar would post such a nonsensical illogical poorly researched argument about having authority over people like housemaids other than what they are contracted to do which is clean the house.
You seem to be citizen of soem big city of Europe or America where even richer people can only think of hiring housemaids on hourly contract of cleaning the house.
But so is not the case everywhere. There are full time and even life time housemaids after arranging their marriage with another servant of the family in many parts of the world including my own country Pakistan. Qur'aan addresses global matters.