Are we going the wrong way ?
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Peace Farida.
I was not talking about anyone in particular. My answer was a response to quote
The " theory doesn't fit with facts (Quran=facts)"
Peace.
Sorry these were truthsearcher's words in reply 10 of this thread, I only quoted in repsonse to your question as it says exactly what is going on here on this forum, but I still don't understand connection to idol worship here?
Peace -
Peace Frida
Did you misrepresent yourself with this quote, please clarify,
especially the bold highlight.Salaam good logic
Are we not supposed to show our respect and appreciation to those who have done us favours and who has done greater good to us than Muhamed pbuh by his delivery of the Qur?an to us exactly and explaining to us how to implement it, which is not hadith, but practicing.I can not remember the verse at the moment but I remember reading in the Qur?an something like this; those who appreciate person with thank are thankful to Allah too.
PeacePeace O0
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Peace Farida.
I took it as give " Qoran facts" When I mentioned "GOD ALONE, NO IDOLS".
Peace. -
Peace Frida
Did you misrepresent yourself with this quote, please clarify,
especially the bold highlight.Peace O0
Salaam
Let me clarify one thing; I hold all prophets in equal esteem and do not discriminate among them. Let me explain by quoting one hadith regardless of its authensity, which I think explains the positions of prophets. It was about an argument between a Jew and a Muslim as to which prophet holds the highest rank. Their dispute was brought to the attention of prophet Mohamed, who explained to both that all prophets are like bricks, used to build a wall, and his position is like the last brick of that wall.
For us contemporary people Mohamed pbuh left the final message, the Qur?an, delivered to us exactly as it was revealed to him. For this reason he has done greater good to us than Einstein or Newton, Socrates or Rashid Khalifah.
Peace -
But would you accuse them of denying other porphets or only Muhammad?
peace
I didn't say they were denying him, they just don't give him much credit, IMO. As for other prophets, I noticed they were described as highly cool guys when quoting the "do not make difference among messengers" verse. Surely, they all are on the same level, but I'm sure Sunnis are more fascinated with Muhammad because of his title "the crown of prophethood" and more available "info" about him, given through Ahadith. People can more associate with Muhammad, it seems that he was more "real" (hope you won't misunderstand what I'm saying) than for example Moses, who split the sea or Jesus and his miraculous birth, etc. who can appear to some people as superheros while Muhammad was just a man with the message, without any apparent "supernatural" skills.
Sorry for the broken English.
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Not everyone posting here is Muslim, although they might think they are. Some are even rejecting crystal clear teachings and commands of the Qur'an. Others have a clear agenda to turn people away from the Qur'an. God has warned us that there will be such people, this is not a "conspiracy theory" by any means. There are people on internet pretending to be Muslim with the sole aim to lead people astray.
Peace Recluse.
bravo very well said.
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Peace Farida.
Another point I did not get from your post quote
Muhamed pbuh by his delivery of the Qur?an to us exactly and explaining to us how to implement it, which is not hadith, but practicing.
Are you saying Muhamed explained the Qoran and how to practise "Deen"?
Peace.
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Hi Farida
Seems you have misunderstood everything that I have said !! I never tried to compare Einstein with Muhamed or any prophet I just used his quote to describe "our cataclysm". Please read carefully what I have said before coming to your conclusion.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts " has a deeper meaning but I used physical meaning of quote. I was trying to say that we are doing everything just to fit "our theory". We are trying to change the meaning of Quran's words...We are trying to corrupt everything, we are trying to make some absurd changes in islam like not forbidding alchool, changing concept of adultery and fornication, changing number and concept of salat, hajj etc. I just asked if Quran is easy to understand why we are having problem to concept basic Rules of Life (marriage,salat,sex etc) which are supposed to be easy to understand ? And if the answer of this question is "corruption of arabic language - words meaning by scholars and hadiths for more than 1000 years " then whats the point of AQ(159) ? Soaccording to 159, if there's no corruption then where is defect ? Are we trying to find the theory (Quran's rules) or we already have our own theory ? Thats all
Peace
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Hi Farida
Seems you have misunderstood everything that I have said !! I never tried to compare Einstein with Muhamed or any prophet I just used his quote to describe "our cataclysm". Please read carefully what I have said before coming to your conclusion.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts " has a deeper meaning but I used physical meaning of quote. I was trying to say that we are doing everything just to fit "our theory". We are trying to change the meaning of Quran's words...We are trying to corrupt everything, we are trying to make some absurd changes in islam like not forbidding alchool, changing concept of adultery and fornication, changing number and concept of salat, hajj etc. I just asked if Quran is easy to understand why we are having problem to concept basic Rules of Life (marriage,salat,sex etc) which are supposed to be easy to understand ? And if the answer of this question is "corruption of arabic language - words meaning by scholars and hadiths for more than 1000 years " then whats the point of AQ(159) ? Soaccording to 159, if there's no corruption then where is defect ? Are we trying to find the theory (Quran's rules) or we already have our own theory ? Thats all
Peace
I think that those who misunderstood Quran have had a long hard way to figure that out in a societal level.
And the 1000s of years of depressing hardship on the "muslim" part has said it all..but in an individual level, there is just too much examples to learn from.
it all depends on how sensitive we are with the signs that He signals to us..wallahua3lam
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Peace Farida.
Another point I did not get from your post quote
Muhamed pbuh by his delivery of the Qur?an to us exactly and explaining to us how to implement it, which is not hadith, but practicing.
Are you saying Muhamed explained the Qoran and how to practise "Deen"?
Peace.
Peace good logic & all
Please read in the context of what had been discussed and my Reply #75 on August 10, 2012, 022933 PM was in response to this truthsearcher; "I think Muhamed had an answer for everything but I don't know how ?? " and I stand by my reply there.
There is a difference between explaining/discussing the Qur?an, like its been going on here on several threads on all sorts of subjects, and I believe that we were adviced to pay heed and understand it ourself. I of course firmly believe that prophets were human, like us, but they were additionally gifted. Their status was not like ours as by revelation from God they had been provided all the answers on how to pray and fast and put into practice all that is expected of us.
I am also very aware of the campaign on this forum where some are promoting the notion that Mohamed pbuh never existed, insisting that there is no evidence of such a person having existed. I am also aware of many, who just preach God Alone and do not give the prophet Mohamed his due; God only knows the real reason behind it.
I am saying that Prophet Mohamed pbuh delivered the Qur?an exactly as it was revealed to him and, while alive, he prayed and fasted and performed Hajj in the correct fashion so that the believers knew how to implement our deen. After his death, with time, many novel and wrong practices crept into the deen so our duty is to filter out the truth, of how it was practiced, rather than try and take over the prophet?s function and lay down new rules etc.
Salaam
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Hi Farida
Seems you have misunderstood everything that I have said !! I never tried to compare Einstein with Muhamed or any prophet I just used his quote to describe "our cataclysm". Please read carefully what I have said before coming to your conclusion.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts " has a deeper meaning but I used physical meaning of quote. I was trying to say that we are doing everything just to fit "our theory". We are trying to change the meaning of Quran's words...We are trying to corrupt everything, we are trying to make some absurd changes in islam like not forbidding alchool, changing concept of adultery and fornication, changing number and concept of salat, hajj etc. I just asked if Quran is easy to understand why we are having problem to concept basic Rules of Life (marriage,salat,sex etc) which are supposed to be easy to understand ? And if the answer of this question is "corruption of arabic language - words meaning by scholars and hadiths for more than 1000 years " then whats the point of AQ(159) ? Soaccording to 159, if there's no corruption then where is defect ? Are we trying to find the theory (Quran's rules) or we already have our own theory ? Thats all
Peace
Salaam truthsearcher,
First of all my apologies as I thought the quote I used was from good logic which made it confusing but to answer your question; No I did not say you compare Einstein with Muhamed , you used a quote from Einstein and we often used quotes from many well-known figures. Naturally that does not mean we hold them as idols so no one objects to mentioning Einstein, or Newton or Socrates, but the instant I mention the name of Mohamed the accusation of idol worship came. So there is no harm in using quotes from well-known figures, and holding them in high esteem, and who deserves greater respect from us than prophet Mohamed pbuh who delivered the Quran to us.
In fact I liked how you applied the quote from Einstein to explain what is going on here on Free Mind and I used it to explain to others how some people work on this forum.
Peace
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Peace Farida.
I still disagree with you. Muhamed did not know everything at first, even in the end there were things he did not know according to Qoran. It took 23 years for the inspiration to be completed.How was "deen" practised in the first few years? What about after ten years?...
What is certain is " GOD knows everything". HE teaches /explains HIS word. There is a reason GOD preserves HIS word.
We seem to be bothered about the rituals. Do we want the same for eating, sleeping,wearing clothes....
We should be bothered about being " GOD conscious ", "Sincere", " Loyal to GOD Alone"...
Which of the two gets us access to " GOD s word" ?
Believers at the time of Muhamed supported him. There was discussions and agreements on many issues between them with the prophet leading them and all using GOD s word as guidance.
GOD has preserved a fully detailed book for us. Let us trust in GOD to guide us to HIS truth. Let us ask HIM to work on our hearts to be true brothers and sisters. GOD will do the rest.
May the Lord guide us to serve HIM and be united.
Peace -
Peace Farida.
I still disagree with you. Muhamed did not know everything at first, even in the end there were things he did not know according to Qoran. It took 23 years for the inspiration to be completed.How was "deen" practised in the first few years? What about after ten years?...
What is certain is " GOD knows everything". HE teaches /explains HIS word. There is a reason GOD preserves HIS word.
May the Lord guide us to serve HIM and be united.
PeaceSalaam
66.3 Confirms that the prophet did get other information than what was meant to be revealed in the Qur?an and it was left to the prophet whether.... he made known part of it and ignored a part. And when he informed her about it, she said, "Who told you this?" He said, "I was informed by the Knowing, the Acquainted
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Peace Farida.
That was a private affair.
What GOD preserved "Qoran "it has all the details of what we need to know.
We are commanded to only follow GOD s word
Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "God's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other god (Sources) beside God." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god ( One source, Qoran), and I disown your idolatry."
Peace.
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Peace Farida.
That was a private affair.
What GOD preserved "Qoran "it has all the details of what we need to know.
We are commanded to only follow GOD s word
Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "God's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other god (Sources) beside God." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god ( One source, Qoran), and I disown your idolatry."
Peace.
Peace good logic
Do not push my argument aside, saying it was a private affair! If it was a private affair then why was it mentioned in the very public Qur'an ???
I don't care what you say about me but do you suppose that Allah is angry with me for showing my respect and gratitute to the Prophet who delivered the Qur'an to us ???
What makes you think that I am not following Allah's s word ???
What is you agenda here that you should bring up idolatry when someone pays respect to the Prophet Mohamed pbuh?
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Peace Farida.
I am not questioning your respect for Muhamed. I also believe in Muhamed and respect him.
I am questioning your suggestion ,Quote the prophet did get other information than what was meant to be revealed in the Qur?an
Also I quoted Qoran that we are not to follow any other source . I am going to use Qoran to further clarify that we are only meant to follow "Qoran"
Do not move your tongue to hasten it.
It is we who will collect it into Quran.
Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran.
Then it is we who will explain it.
If the prophet got other information and it is not in the Qoran, then we are forbidden from following it. It will be another source, hence we will be committing " idol worship" according to GOD.
Peace.
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peace
I didn't say they were denying him, they just don't give him much credit, IMO. As for other prophets, I noticed they were described as highly cool guys when quoting the "do not make difference among messengers" verse. Surely, they all are on the same level, but I'm sure Sunnis are more fascinated with Muhammad because of his title "the crown of prophethood" and more available "info" about him, given through Ahadith. People can more associate with Muhammad, it seems that he was more "real" (hope you won't misunderstand what I'm saying) than for example Moses, who split the sea or Jesus and his miraculous birth, etc. who can appear to some people as superheros while Muhammad was just a man with the message, without any apparent "supernatural" skills.
Sorry for the broken English.
Right. But when you say they don't give him much credit, it reminds me of Christians who believe that Unitarian Christian also don't give Jesus much credit because they reject his divinity and reject the Trinity doctrine.
The fact that Muhammad received and was entrusted with the Quran is all the credit he needs. Maybe the best way to appreciate the person is to follow the message he was given and sacrificed for. There is a tendency for Muslims to equate rejecting the Sunnah as rejecting Muhammad himself. Many people reject the Sunnah because they don't believe its Muhamedan and believe that it was invented to change the Islam of the Quran.
Remember in the end the Quranist persuasion is still in its infancy and many Quranist have not properly formulated their understanding yet. Its still evolving and taking shape. Also remember that Quranist come from different backgrounds and have different experiences.
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I don't reject the Sunnah (that doesn't conflict with the Qur'an).
Are you not afraid that you will allow the sunnah to unduly influence how you view the Quran, perpetuating mistakes of previous generations?
Then there's the problem with the "fuzzy edges" - there is no consensus which hadith are real or fake, strong or weak, important or un-important. Nobody can define what sunnah actually is, or where it begins and ends.
What I'm saying is, if you can't ever be certain where God's instructions to you as a believer begin or end, how can you ever expect to find any solidity in your practice of deen? To me it seems critical to strictly define what is to be followed, and the Quran-alone approach provides just that. -
Are you not afraid that you will allow the sunnah to unduly influence how you view the Quran, perpetuating mistakes of previous generations?
Then there's the problem with the "fuzzy edges" - there is no consensus which hadith are real or fake, strong or weak, important or un-important. Nobody can define what sunnah actually is, or where it begins and ends.
What I'm saying is, if you can't ever be certain where God's instructions to you as a believer begin or end, how can you ever expect to find any solidity in your practice of deen? To me it seems critical to strictly define what is to be followed, and the Quran-alone approach provides just that.Thats a good point. But that can also mean the level of knowledge since it takes knowledge of the Sunnah and the Quran to see what contradicts the Quran what does not. Not anyone has that ability.
Quranist are either one of those parties
- they only accept the Quran as a religious source.
- They accept the Quran and previous scriptures.
- They accept the Quran and Islamic rituals but not hadiths.
- They accept the Quran and Islamic rituals and hadiths that does not contradict the Quran.
- Not necessarily among any but switch according to specific issues. Most Quranist tend to be in this category, at least the ones here are.
All have a common denominator, nothing should be accepted that contradicts explicit verses of the Quran.
However we should remember for unity we must also not make binding whats not explicitly mentioned in the Quran. This last part is the most challenging and this has created rifts between Quranist. A Quranist should never make binding what the Quran has not done so by an explict verse and should never under any circumstance accept any source that contradict an explict verse of the Quran.
You are right that hadiths can influence how a person understands the verses of the Quran. But many also are influenced by the previous scriptures or their personal experiences in life. The Quran is a scripture that came for all mankind and its natural that there will be a diversity of understanding and approaches. As long as the two conditions I mentioned are met, than and only then we can say we are a single community as God has ordered us to be in the Quran. Breaking one of them by making binding whats not explictly mentioned in the Quran or accepting something that contradicts an explicit verse of the Quran will create disunity and seperates us. The Quran allows differences (ikhtilaf) but does not allow seperation (iftiraq). Our differences should never make us seperate from one another and create sects. The only way that will happen is what I mentioned. The Quran says differences (ikhtilaf) will be settled by God in the hereafter but seperation (iftiraq) will make God not only abandon us but God promised to create enmity and hostility between us because we abandoned the scripture as the final criteria.