Are we going the wrong way ?

truthsearcher

Hi all

First of all - the reason why i opened this topic is because I AM CONFUSED for everything. I thought that everything was clear to me until I became a Quranist. But now as a Quranist i realized that there are things in Quran that we are having trouble to understand. Yes Quran is the word of God and I guess that is OK not understanding 100% of Quran (for example I think that we never can understand the truth about spirit, jinn, seven heavens etc.) But there are rules about life that determine if we'll spend next life in heaven or hell or purgatory. And those rules that determine our next life are in Quran with no doubt and if we want to be in heaven we should follow these rules because these rules determine THE TRUTH. And my concept about TRUTH is TRUTH IS SINGLE. So there is just one truth - one rule to follow or one "stairway to heaven".And according to Quran 5417 we can learn that Quran is easy to understand and I guess that has e meaning and the meaning is RULES OF LIFE ARE CLEAR. When I'm saying "rules of life" I mean rules for marriage, divorce, sex (before or after marriage), pray, zaqat, punishment of thieves, adultery etc etc. So there are supposed to be clear to understand. But wait a minute. Now what we have ? We have Quranists that pray 2 times, 3 times, 4 times, 5 times a day and all of them have "Qurans arguments". We have those who think that sex before marriage is haram and those who think that sex before marriage is allowed and those who think that sex before marriage is adultery or fornication and the punishment is 100 lashes. We have Quranists who think that the verse 415-16 is talking about adultery or public sex or gay or even public gay sex or ... such different things. Those who think that woman should cover only private parts or cover hair or....quranists who give zekat in every different amount, those who pray according to "hadiths way", "rashad khalifas way", "qurans way" or "own way", those who agree with polygamy and those with arguments against it, those who agree to cut thief hands and those who think that it has figurative meaning, those who think that 4119 is talking about tattoo,cloning (physic meaning) and those who think that 4119 is talking about "mind changing" or some figurative meaning, those who are against wife beating and those who agree to beat wife if she doesn't fill Qurans order etc etc. And as you can see I'm not talking about "minor rules", I'm talking about "major rules" which determine our life. Lets check out
587
O ye who believe! make not unlawful the good things which Allah hath made lawful for you, but commit no excess for Allah loveth not those given to excess.

Are we making unlawful the good thing that God made lawful for us (like reducing nr. of salat etc) ?

5417
And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?

When we are finding "our own version" about a rule we should remember that there is just one version of truth - TRUTH IS SINGLE. And according to 5417, " our mission of finding the truth from Quran" is easy. So why are we having trouble determining MAJOR RULES ? I think that WE ARE WRONG. I don't know where is the defect but there is a hole in all of this and I'm pretty sure. That comes from me because I don't think that God's Plan was wrong projected. If God says in Quran that Quran is easy to understand and we are having trouble on it there are two options a)God is wrong; b)We are wrong. We cannot consider option a) as an option so we have just b). OK we can say that we're finding Quran easy to understand but it sounds hypocrite from us when we have so many different group of people with their own way of life and all of them with arguments from Quran. How can be truth easy to understand and at the same time it is interpreted in every possible different way. It seems contradict to me.

I'm 100% sure that We have the same Quran that Muhamed had about 1400 years ago with the same words. So now I'm thinking if Muhamed was like "one of us". I mean did he pray one day 5 time a day and than found out that he was wrong because in Quran are mention only 3 ? Did he know 100% sure number of salat, how to pray, definition of marriage, adultery or fornication etc. Did he know if 4119 is talking about figurative or physic meaning and the same for cut hands of thieves ? Did he know if anal sex is forbidden or he just studied Quran to find the truth in the same way that we are studying these days ? Or maybe there are hadiths that for hundred years corrupted arabic language, Quran and everything that has to do with islam ? And if that's true so how can this verse make sense in these days
159
We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)

I know that if we search hadiths everything would be "clear" but in a bad-corrupted way. But in other side if we follow Quran alone we have many many different rules contradicting each other and at the same time we are breaking 5417. So where are we wrong ? Anyone has any explanation ?

Thanks for reading and peace to all

good_logic

Peace truthsearcher.

I understand your frustration and I share your concern. but do not panic!

If GOD willed to make us one united community, HE could have done it. However this will eliminate the trial .(freedom of choice.)

Now the main message is " Total submission and loyalty to GOD Alone." ,this means that we have to trust in GOD Alone for our way of life.

The most important things in life are called commandments.These are absolutely clear in " the detailed book" let me quote

6151 Say? Come let me tell you what your Lord has prohibited for you( GOD s words, not mine or anybody else!)You shall not set up idols beside HIM,( Do not follow man made rules that claim are from GOD!) You shall honour your parents.You shall not kill your children from fear of poverty.We provide for you and for them. You shall not commit gross sins obvious or hidden. ( Your creator has put the instinct in you to tell between right and wrong!) You shall not kill. GOD has made life sacred.Except in the course of justice.These are HIS commandments to you that you may understand.?

6152You shall not touch the orphan s money except in the most righteous manner, until they reach maturity.You shall give full weight and full measure when you trade, equitably.We do not burden any soul beyond its means.You shall be absolutely just when you bear witness, even against your relatives ( or yourself!) You shall fulfil your covenant with GOD. ( To uphold HIS authority. ALONE no idols!) These are HIS commandments to you, that you may take heed.?

6153This is My path, a straight one, do not follow any other paths, lest they divert you from HIS path.These are HIS commandments to you ,that you may be saved.?

Notice how GOD did not add anything else here deliberately. We are all individuals and we serve/follow/worship GOD in our diverse ways.

So I would not worry about what views others hold on Salat, Zakat, Hajj,... I would uphold the Authority of GOD Alone. Then I would keep on trusting on GOD to show me the truth. With patience and perseverance and after a hard trial GOD promises that we attain certainty.

So brother , trust on GOD to guide you to HIS truth, Keep studying the Qoran and keep doing what you are doing now for your salat,zakat,... Only change when you see clear evidence to do so and keep seeking help from your Lord.

Peace.

ignorant_quotient

Dear truthsearcher,

You have put exactly what i am going through.

The problem is due to the posts by the users, everyone posts of what he/she thinks of certain words in Quran and their own interpretation. There are no moderators who can verify the content before it is posted. So you see all these confused souls coming here and posting whatever they like.

I have seen some very weird post being posted here. I hope moderators due bring out some kind of regulations for posting.

Regards

good_logic

Peace ignorant quotient.

This is "Free-minds", are you suggesting the moderators censor it?

What does " freedom of choice/speech... mean?

You are responsible for filtering and taking the " best " . Prove and check everything yourself.

There are some good debates/ideas/views in this forum. Also there is a lot of mutual respect.

Peace.

ignorant_quotient

Peace ignorant quotient.

This is "Free-minds", are you suggesting the moderators censor it?

What does " freedom of choice/speech... mean?

You are responsible for filtering and taking the " best " . Prove and check everything yourself.

There are some good debates/ideas/views in this forum. Also there is a lot of mutual respect.

Peace.

Peace good logic,

Yes, I do understand what freedom of speech/choice is.

But in the guise of this freedom you cannot stretch some basic fundamental things. It is taking this freedom of speech too far away. And I sincerely wish/suggest there should be some kind of regulation on posting here.

Also its not about filtering and taking the best out, users generate some kind of interest by the topic headers and what you see in the post is all personal assumptions. By this kind of posting the very essence of free minds will be lost that is to come to this forum and debate,read according to Quran Alone.

Hope you understand what I am trying to suggest.

Regards

Emil

Anyone has any explanation ?

I feel the same way, frustrated many times.

I try to remember "the simple solution is the most difficult to figure out"

Hopefully we will understand a little more than the previous generation and hopefully the next will understand more than us

farida

So I would not worry about what views others hold on Salat, Zakat, Hajj,... I would uphold the Authority of GOD Alone. Then I would keep on trusting on GOD to show me the truth. With patience and perseverance and after a hard trial GOD promises that we attain certainty.

So brother , trust on GOD to guide you to HIS truth, Keep studying the Qoran and keep doing what you are doing now for your salat,zakat,... Only change when you see clear evidence to do so and keep seeking help from your Lord.

Peace.

Seconded
Salaam

good_logic

Peace ignorant. quotient.

I understand you, sometimes it can be frustrating, when there are no agreement on big issues.

I also agree that there are some inappropriate comments/ topics. What is the fairest system of dealing with this issue?

Should we leave that decision to someone? Are there already rules in place? There is room for discussion?

I am satisfied ,the majority in the forum are honestly trying to find a way to their Lord through HIS scriptures.

Peace.

GODsubmitter

Thank you @truthsearcher for starting this thread!

I am almost in the same situation as you are, specially because I came from Judeo -Xtian background and embraced Islam about 2 years ago, accepting it as taught by Mr. Rashad Khalifa, PhD.
Now I am at the verge to abandoning Islam altogether, mostly because of diverging opinions and versions, and I also think that the Truth is only one!

You see, the problem is, that after Moses, NOBODY ever, never, spoke to God one to one!
NO-ONE ever heard the voice of God anymore!
Even the first one to substitute after Moses, Joshua, was in deep trouble with many issues etc. So, I think the first and the original message is Torah, and there is no contradiction in the commandments and instructions. Qur'an's main function is to confirm it and remind of it.
Maybe some people heard messages through intermediaries, like through Gabriel (Mary and Mohammad) or some prophets, but they were always alone, no witnesses to that! Unlike when all of Israel heard the voice of God, about million people present!. That was the only event in history, once and only. Never repeated. Now, messengers, like Gabriel etc, are just second layer, it is not the direct Word from God!
@Good logic pointed out well some things... but the problem is that even if "ask God for guidance", He is not going to speak to us, simply because there was never again anyone like Moses who heard the voice of God and stayed alive!
The "answer" we might "get", might be just our imagination, as with many other people, who then started more then 8000 cults and new religions (Islam included!)

unknownuser

I know that if we search hadiths everything would be "clear" but in a bad-corrupted way. But in other side if we follow Quran alone we have many many different rules contradicting each other and at the same time we are breaking 5417. So where are we wrong ? Anyone has any explanation ?

You answered your own question almost. When you mentioned the Prophet Muhammed "praying 5 times a day" and then change to 3 when he found out he was wrong...just because hadith said he prayed 5 times a day doesn't mean he DID. For all we know, he only prayed 3 times a day. For me that is the reason I am here...the validity of the hadith. Just because long line of people hung out around the Prophet for several years of his life doesn't mean that they themselves could be trusted and that their memories are perfect...yet the majority of Islam follow the hadith as if it is a juicy steak on a string and they are hungry puppies.

I agree, though...it is confusing when everyone seems to have their own opinion on what the Qu'ran says. I got frustrated and had to take a break last week over that very thing. Just ask Allah (swt) to guide you in the right direction when you feel that way! Don't we say that in our salaat daily... "Idinhas siratal mustaqueem" (guide us in the straight way)? Just keep asking for understanding and push on.

With Peace,

Amina

truthsearcher