Blind faith in God or using logic before believing in God?
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Salamun Alaykum,
I dunno if this has been discussed before, if it has, do give me a link, but I was wondering, does the Quran in any place claim that one should use logic before believing in God, or do we have to just believe in Him because this book says so? I have no doubts whatsoever in the existence of God, or in the divinity of the Quran, don't get me wrong. But I was just asking what is the Quran's take on this issue? Oh, and don't give the example of Prophet Abraham, again don't get me wrong, I believe that's the best way to express the procedure of finding God, that is, by using logic, but I'd like to be lead to a verse that directly says that we have to use our brains to believe in God, and not just because our parents told us to.
Thanks
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Salaamun bro,
4153
4153 We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?You have to see, ponder and understand our Lord's signs which He will show to everyone in THE HORIZONS and WITHIN THEMSELVES. It will be shown to them UNTIL it makes CLEAR to them that IT IS THE TRUTH.
Once one understand and agreed to that, then...
2571
2571 And he who repents and does righteousness does indeed turn to Allah with repentance.Please note the highlighted part in Arabic, all three words are derived from the same root, hence got same meaning "Turn".
2572
2572 And those who do not testify to falsehood, and when they pass near ill speech, they pass by with dignity.2573
2573 And those who, when reminded of the verses of their Lord, do not fall upon them deaf and blind.They DO NOT FALL DEAF AND BLIND upon the aayaats of Allah.
And....
1736
1736 And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those will be questioned.As per my understanding no, don't need to believe blindly as per the aayaats given.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Salaamun bro,
4153
4153 We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?You have to see, ponder and understand our Lord's signs which He will show to everyone in THE HORIZONS and WITHIN THEMSELVES. It will be shown to them UNTIL it makes CLEAR to them that IT IS THE TRUTH.
Once one understand and agreed to that, then...
2571
2571 And he who repents and does righteousness does indeed turn to Allah with repentance.Please note the highlighted part in Arabic, all three words are derived from the same root, hence got same meaning "Turn".
2572
2572 And those who do not testify to falsehood, and when they pass near ill speech, they pass by with dignity.2573
2573 And those who, when reminded of the verses of their Lord, do not fall upon them deaf and blind.They DO NOT FALL DEAF AND BLIND upon the aayaats of Allah.
And....
1736
1736 And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those will be questioned.As per my understanding no, don't need to believe blindly as per the aayaats given.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanAh..I knew there were such verses. Thanks. Looking forward for more replies
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Peace Fallen Angel 21098.
Here is one more
3829 This is a scripture that We sent down to you, that is sacred; Perhaps they reflect on its verses. Those who possess intelligence will take heed.?Peace.
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No, none that I know of.
Belief, faith and submission are being rewarded, not rational or critical thinking. Or logics. Imagine if logics were required! How could you reconcile all-powerful, all-knowing, all merciful, all-just and all other logical inconsistencies? -
No, none that I know of.
Belief, faith and submission are being rewarded, not rational or critical thinking. Or logics. Imagine if logics were required! How could you reconcile all-powerful, all-knowing, all merciful, all-just and all other logical inconsistencies?Logic only works if the underlying assumptions are sound. "Rational" and "critical" often means "myopic" and "arrogant" in reality.
There is nothing inherently illogical about the existence of God, there's just small people using small reasoning. -
Salamun Alaykum,
the best way to express the procedure of finding God, that is, by using logic, but I'd like to be lead to a verse that directly says that we have to use our brains to believe in God, and not just because our parents told us to.
ThanksPeace,
logic like creation has a creator
design has a designerA verse that says use your brains to believe in God, one of which is
They remember GOD while standing, sitting, and on their sides, and they reflect (think) upon the creation of the heavens and the earth "Our Lord, You did not create all this in vain. Be You glorified. Save us from the retribution of Hell.
remember, the weaker the faith and trust in God that a person has the stronger the grip
of shaytayn in that individual's life ultimately leading one to blasphemies, denial of the
existence of God, and an ongoing need for proof after proof.Your battle appears to be with satan.
good luck on your journey
Peace O0
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Peace,
logic like creation has a creator
design has a designerA verse that says use your brains to believe in God, one of which is
They remember GOD while standing, sitting, and on their sides, and they reflect (think) upon the creation of the heavens and the earth "Our Lord, You did not create all this in vain. Be You glorified. Save us from the retribution of Hell.
remember, the weaker the faith and trust in God that a person has the stronger the grip
of shaytayn in that individual's life ultimately leading one to blasphemies, denial of the
existence of God, and an ongoing need for proof after proof.Your battle appears to be with satan.
good luck on your journey
Peace O0
You got it right, it's true, it is a battle with satan, but thanks to God, I am no where near submitting to him (satan). Thanks for the verse.
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peace Fallen Angel 21098,
I apologize for my terseness, I did not intend to sound harse,
I could have worded my thoughts better, i hope you would accept my apology.Peace O0
don't worry, i never get/got offended. In fact, I never thought that this could sound harsh lol.
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oh, and peace hawkninetynine, i forgot, i hope God forgives me
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Logic only works if the underlying assumptions are sound. "Rational" and "critical" often means "myopic" and "arrogant" in reality.
There is nothing inherently illogical about the existence of God, there's just small people using small reasoning.I always found that logics work pretty much by themselves. And that's how you find out whether assumptions are logically correct or not.
Mistaking logical for correct is common. You forgot that there's also delusion, which is ignoring reality and using blinkers to avoid seeing what is not part of faith. But this is about using logics and not criticism or judgment.
Do I care whether the existence of a god is inherently illogical? No! What I was referring to are attributes of a god, something totally different.
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No, none that I know of.
Belief, faith and submission are being rewarded, not rational or critical thinking. Or logics. Imagine if logics were required! How could you reconcile all-powerful, all-knowing, all merciful, all-just and all other logical inconsistencies?Yup, I agree. There has to be some sort of belief not based on logic...like most Atheists start out "I can't believe in something I can't see."
I personally feel both are absolutely required.
Peace,
Amina
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Peace Stop S
Peace scaredmuslimahI have to respectfully disagree with the conclusion you have reached. While also
agreeing partially with conclusion of Stop S.I always found that logics work pretty much by themselves. And that's how you find out whether assumptions are logically correct or not.
Yes logic must be tested by debate or proved or disproved by evidence.
But the subject is "submission" not philosophy or any other subject, therefore
we must turn to God's revelations for the answers. The first person who comes
to mind is Abraham the monotheistThe Debate
Recall that Abraham said to his father ?zer, "How could you worship statues as gods? I see that you and your people have gone far astray."
The Guidance
We showed Abraham the marvels of the heavens and the earth, and blessed him with certainty
The reflection (logic)
When the night fell, he saw a shining planet. "Maybe this is my Lord," he said. When it disappeared, he said, "I do not like (gods) that disappear."
When he saw the moon rising, he said, "Maybe this is my Lord!" When it disappeared, he said, "Unless my Lord guides me, I will be with the strayers."
When he saw the sun rising, he said, "This must be my Lord. This is the biggest." But when it set, he said, "O my people, I denounce your idolatry.
The Conclusion
"I have devoted myself absolutely to the One who initiated the heavens and the earth; I will never be an idol worshiper."
Certainty
His people argued with him. He said, "Do you argue with me about GOD, after He has guided me? I have no fear of the idols you set up. Nothing can happen to me, unless my Lord wills it. My Lord's knowledge encompasses all things. Would you not take heed?
Steadfastness
"Why should I fear your idols? It is you who should be afraid, since you worship instead of GOD idols that are utterly powerless to help you. Which side is more deserving of security, if you know?"
Ask For Understanding from God
Abraham said, "My Lord, show me how You revive the dead." He said, "Do you not believe?" He said, "Yes, but I wish to reassure my heart." He said, "Take four birds, study their marks, place a piece of each bird on top of a hill, then call them to you. They will come to you in a hurry. You should know that GOD is Almighty, Most Wise."I also submit that faith is an branch of understanding or misunderstanding
Peace O0
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I was just wondering... what is faith and blind faith anyway?
Isn't it that each and everyone that claim to believe in something, also has some sort of reason for it. If you believe in a higher power that you cannot see, cannot prove, hasn't felt etc... still there must be a reason... and it could for example be that you want to fit into a group, and you stick to this identity, belonging and "story" even when you are alone by yourself. You keep playing the role of the "believer". So is there really any blind faith as such? Of course, the real reasons might not be connected to the object of the blind faith, but I think there must be some reason.. so in that sense, it is not totally blind, although unrelated. I mean, how can you believe in something if you have NO reasons whatsoever? Isn't this madness?? You must e.g. at the very least have some sort of feeling in side you, even if you cannot explain it to others... but something must be there.
Peace! -
Peace Stop S
Peace scaredmuslimahI have to respectfully disagree with the conclusion you have reached. While also
agreeing partially with conclusion of Stop S.Yes logic must be tested by debate or proved or disproved by evidence.
But the subject is "submission" not philosophy or any other subject, therefore
we must turn to God's revelations for the answers. The first person who comes
to mind is Abraham the monotheistThe Debate
Recall that Abraham said to his father ?zer, "How could you worship statues as gods? I see that you and your people have gone far astray."
The Guidance
We showed Abraham the marvels of the heavens and the earth, and blessed him with certainty
The reflection (logic)
When the night fell, he saw a shining planet. "Maybe this is my Lord," he said. When it disappeared, he said, "I do not like (gods) that disappear."
When he saw the moon rising, he said, "Maybe this is my Lord!" When it disappeared, he said, "Unless my Lord guides me, I will be with the strayers."
When he saw the sun rising, he said, "This must be my Lord. This is the biggest." But when it set, he said, "O my people, I denounce your idolatry.
The Conclusion
"I have devoted myself absolutely to the One who initiated the heavens and the earth; I will never be an idol worshiper."
Certainty
His people argued with him. He said, "Do you argue with me about GOD, after He has guided me? I have no fear of the idols you set up. Nothing can happen to me, unless my Lord wills it. My Lord's knowledge encompasses all things. Would you not take heed?
Steadfastness
"Why should I fear your idols? It is you who should be afraid, since you worship instead of GOD idols that are utterly powerless to help you. Which side is more deserving of security, if you know?"
Ask For Understanding from God
Abraham said, "My Lord, show me how You revive the dead." He said, "Do you not believe?" He said, "Yes, but I wish to reassure my heart." He said, "Take four birds, study their marks, place a piece of each bird on top of a hill, then call them to you. They will come to you in a hurry. You should know that GOD is Almighty, Most Wise."I also submit that faith is an branch of understanding or misunderstanding
Peace O0
"Allah knows best." How in the world do I explain that to someone who constantly uses logic and does not go off of faith? It's impossible.
When things happen in my life that I can't explain or understand, that is what I have to say to myself. If I tried to use logic for every single situation like that, I would go mad.
So yes...blind faith is required. Not in the sense that one is stupid or ignorant, but in the sense that they must completely rely on God and let logic go at times.
Peace,
Amina
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Peace scaredmuslimah,
"Allah knows best."
"Allah knows best." is the Best answer, even when we think we know or
understand. also "Allah knows best." is the Logical conclusion when we do not know
or understand why something happened or did not happen.Peace Zulf,
I agree with the statementI was just wondering... what is faith and blind faith anyway?
Isn't it that each and everyone that claim to believe in something, also has some sort of reason for it. If you believe in a higher power that you cannot see, cannot prove, hasn't felt etc... still there must be a reason...
REASON DEFINED1.power of orderly thought the power of being able to think in a logical and rational manner
2.ability to think clearly the ability to think clearly and coherently
3.philosophy intellect as basis for knowledge the ability to think logically regarded as a basis for knowledge, as distinct from experience or emotionsFaith and reason are not at odds, both are positive God-given attributes
Peace O0
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Peace scaredmuslimah,
"Allah knows best." is the Best answer, even when we think we know or
understand. also "Allah knows best." is the Logical conclusion when we do not know
or understand why something happened or did not happen.Peace Zulf,
I agree with the statement REASON DEFINED1.power of orderly thought the power of being able to think in a logical and rational manner
2.ability to think clearly the ability to think clearly and coherently
3.philosophy intellect as basis for knowledge the ability to think logically regarded as a basis for knowledge, as distinct from experience or emotionsFaith and reason are not at odds, both are positive God-given attributes
Peace O0
I guess when I think of people who claim to be "logical" beings, I think of those who don't believe in God. Of course we should use our brains...that I don't deny. Not saying that we aren't logical or intelligent.
I'm babbling...going to stop.
peace
