Zoroastrianism: The hidden monotheist religion that greatly influenced others

Ayisha

25.32 Those who reject Faith say "Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once? Thus (is it revealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to thee in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually. hmm

concerning Kitab (The Book )and Quran (this Book), Quran is obviously this book, The Book (IMHO) is the whole thing from the original revelation to Moses to this book, Quran. ------- People of The Book hmm

Quran is the reminder and confirmation and completion of the message, making this whole thing The Message, The Book.

Thoughts ??

Ayisha

are there 2 threads mixed up here? I click on One Shot or Gradual and get that and the zoroastrianism one

noshirk

salam sister Ayisha,

are there 2 threads mixed up here? I click on One Shot or Gradual and get that and the zoroastrianism one

Sorry sister, but the discussion derived and i changed manually the title of my replies as i did here.

25.32 Those who reject Faith say "Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once? Thus (is it revealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to thee in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually. hmm

concerning Kitab (The Book )and Quran (this Book), Quran is obviously this book, The Book (IMHO) is the whole thing from the original revelation to Moses to this book, Quran. ------- People of The Book hmm

Quran is the reminder and confirmation and completion of the message, making this whole thing The Message, The Book.

I agree with this. However, Quran corrects Torah and what remained from other messengers. Quran and other revelations are not equals for me. Differences are proofs of humans change in old revelations since we know that God revealed to Muhammad what he revealed to messengers before him

25.32 Those who reject Faith say "Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once? Thus (is it revealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to thee in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually. hmm

Thank you for reminding me this verse. Sheytan made me forget it. Or perhaps, who knows, it is God who made me forget it to make me study more the one shot hypothesis.

It is really clear from this verse that Quran was not revealed one shot?..to humans.
?Scholars? are not all agree in the One shot/gradual Debate.
Some of them says it was revealed one shot first (in laylatou el Qadr and shahr ramadan) and then gradually after. There is even hadiths saying that.

Let?s see monotheist traduction
2532 And those who rejected said "If only the Qur'an was sent down to him in one go!" It was done as such so We could strengthen your heart with it, and We arranged it accordingly.

And original verse

First we have to understand more the term ?rattalnahou? and ?Tartilan?

( &#1576
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So tartil can be also interpreted as ? arrangement ?.
Please read this article http//free-minds.org/how-study-quran who explain that tartil is a method to study quran
Definitively, it doesn?t mean singing Quran like imams do actually.

Definitively, one shot hypothesis is false.
Let?s study, in the light of 25-32, this modified hypothesis
Quran revealed one shot only to Muhammad laylatou el qadr and gradually to muslims according to an arrangement fitted to circumstances.
Pleace notice that I am not the one who invented this hypothesis

Thus, revelation to earliers muslims was done gradually according to circumstances. Asbab nouzoul are not asbab (reasons) but only circumstances to help Muhammad teach Quran gradually by examples.

It is quite exactly what the next verse is saying
2533 And for every example they come to you with, We bring you the truth and the best explanation.

Please note that it is not said, to every example they come to you with, we will bring you by the night after or something else, the best explanation. The ?miracle? would be more impressive if the verse was already available and used immediately people came with an example, with no waiting to an eventual futher revelation. So, Quran would be the only true sunna left by Muhammad and his true Hadith. Muhammad would have responded to ?examples? with the miraculous Quran and not with his own ?hadiths?.

The reason invocated by 2532 is clear ! " It was done as such so We could strengthen your heart with it.

What does mean strengthen the heart of prophet ? Does that mean he would have believed less in God if he received the book one shot ? I can?t believe in that. We all received the book one shot in our era. Does that mean that we have reason to have our heart not strengthened ?

So the ?strengthen your heart with it? argument can be understood as some thing like this
?we will show you, during all the remaining period, that quran is complete and that you can respond with it to all religious events that you will encounter. Doing so, we will show you the power of the book you received and strengthen your heart relative to his theological power. We will remind you, when needed, the verses that fit the case you are encountering, and it would be a circumstance to show to your compagnions that your God knows the future, that he has given to you a response before the question, that his book deal with every religious situation?.

Please, notice that I am not saying that what I am saying is the true. I am only studying hypothesis and I am the first one who needs to be convinced.
Totally gradual Hypothesis is still possible but it have also its problems.

As you see sister, we are now deriving towards another thread, Quran is sunna, Quran is the Hadiths. Muhammad preached and teached islam with Quran and not with his own hadiths.
should I see a psychiatrist ?

Peace

good_logic

Peace noshirk.

I tend to agree with RK s explanation

Those who disbelieved said, "Why did not the Quran come through him all at once?" We have released it to you gradually, in order to fix it in your memory. We have recited it in a specific sequence.

When Mohammed was taken during the night " leilat el Kadr" .The Qoran was put in his memory all at once. Then during the 23 years of revelations it was slowly released so he can preach/live/lead using GOD s slowly released verses with the help of Angel Gabriel.

" Ratalnahu tartilan" means it was GOD who choose to release it in a special sequence, then arrange it afterwards in the chapters we have now.
You are responsible to check all information.
Peace.

noshirk

peace good logic

it seems like if you are more agree with me than with RK
your reply "The Qoran was put in his memory all at once" seems to indicate that you don't accept the "We have released it to you gradually" hypothesis
and the "in order to fix it in your memory" explanation

Salaam

Ayisha

should I see a psychiatrist ?

Peace

At this point, yes confused but hold off making the appointment till I can try and decipher the rest of your post hypno

good_logic

Peace noshirk.

I agree with both. ( Qoran was put into Muhammed s memory all at once when he was taken during " leilat el Kadr". Then it was slowly released for remembrance and guidance during the 23 years.

Read my explanation again!

Peace.

Ayisha

salam sister Ayisha,
Sorry sister, but the discussion derived and i changed manually the title of my replies as i did here.
I agree with this. However, Quran corrects Torah and what remained from other messengers. Quran and other revelations are not equals for me. Differences are proofs of humans change in old revelations since we know that God revealed to Muhammad what he revealed to messengers before him

Corrects? Nowhere does Allah say He 'corrects' the Torah?

Allah says this is a CONFIRMATION of the previous books, not a correction. The only corrections are those that people have said, not what was in the books, like Jesus being God was not said by Jesus, or God so that was a 'correction' to what was said by men.

The same message that Muhammed was given, that all prophets were given, is worship ONE GOD and no other besides Him, along with all the rest of the 10 commandments given to Moses, as worship no other Gods but Him was commandment number one.

Allah also tells you to make no distinction, yet you are and refuse to look at those books Allah tells you He sent and confirms in Quran. IMHO one who is looking for Truth would be looking where Allah told you to look.

Thank you for reminding me this verse. Sheytan made me forget it. Or perhaps, who knows, it is God who made me forget it to make me study more the one shot hypothesis.

It is really clear from this verse that Quran was not revealed one shot?..to humans. o
?Scholars? are not all agree in the One shot/gradual Debate.
Some of them says it was revealed one shot first (in laylatou el Qadr and shahr ramadan) and then gradually after. There is even hadiths saying that.

So looking at what scholars think and hadith is fine but looking at the books Allah tells you He sent is not because the scholars and hadith have told you those books are not the same and Quran 'corrects' them, right?