Three times a day for me...and I am sticking with it
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Peace everyone,
I have seen this discussed numerous times on the board, which is why I am not asking a question, but making a statement. After reading and studying, comparing and pondering, I am happy to say that I believe that we are to make 3 prayers daily. The two ends of the day are mentioned, so when I read wusta/middle/central, it stands out as more of a time/placement to me. Thanks to those of you who provided links on the "wusta" issue.
Although I haven't asked a question, this is very open to discussion. I didn't want to re-open any old threads on this issue, as some have been abandoned for a while.
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I also think there are 3 prayers daily, especially because it confirms the same practice as in the Tanah!
Cannot imagine God changing His mind and His commands...
Or reinventing a new religion with every prophet or messenger...
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Peace everyone,
I have seen this discussed numerous times on the board, which is why I am not asking a question, but making a statement. After reading and studying, comparing and pondering, I am happy to say that I believe that we are to make 3 prayers daily. The two ends of the day are mentioned, so when I read wusta/middle/central, it stands out as more of a time/placement to me. Thanks to those of you who provided links on the "wusta" issue.
Although I haven't asked a question, this is very open to discussion. I didn't want to re-open any old threads on this issue, as some have been abandoned for a while.
Peace sis!
You seem to be gaining confidence, which heartens me
I'm currently leaning towards a different understanding of what wusta means - at least that's where I am right now. Should I ever understand things differently I pray I will be wise and humble enough to repent, and that the Lord forgives my errors.
As long as we don't turn these kinds of issues into doctrinal slapfights, I think we're fine.
As long as we recognize that our personal expressions of deen are all works in progress, I think we're fine.
As long as we stay humble with what we really know, I think we're fine.
May Allah guide us both. -
peace sm,
Out of curiosity
- what time-periods are you using for the 3 times?
- what made you choose 3 over 2?
Wakas,
That is a great question because that is actually an area where I am still a bit confused, especially the evening/night prayer. I pray the fajr prayer before dawn, the middle prayer in accordance with the time given for the noon prayer, and then I pray the night prayer in accordance with the time given for isha.
It was your earlier thread regarding the misunderstanding of wusta (you provided a link) that I used, and thank you. It just seems to me that since middle/central was the given translation/meaning of al-wusta, it implies a time. I remember your explanation of central, but when I pondered on it, I came up with it meaning "make the prayers central," which made sense but I felt didn't apply there. To me, it indicates a middle prayer, and since the "two ends of the day" are metioned in the Qu'ran, to me, middle means mid-day.
Do you have any insight on this matter, especially the times for prayer? I would be very interested to hear about that!
Peace,
Amina
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Peace sis!
You seem to be gaining confidence, which heartens me
I'm currently leaning towards a different understanding of what wusta means - at least that's where I am right now. Should I ever understand things differently I pray I will be wise and humble enough to repent, and that the Lord forgives my errors.
As long as we don't turn these kinds of issues into doctrinal slapfights, I think we're fine.
As long as we recognize that our personal expressions of deen are all works in progress, I think we're fine.
As long as we stay humble with what we really know, I think we're fine.May Allah guide us both.I would be interested to hear what your understanding of wusta means if you would like to share. If nothing else, it would give me another way to view it.
I bolded that area because I feel you have given a beautiful description of the qualities one should have when submitting to God.
Peace,
Amina
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Salam and Peace,
First of all, it is fine for me to pray 2,3, or 5 time a day in the way you wish, I mean sunni way, shiia way or even christian or jewish way as long as you know what you are saying in your prayer!
After this clear statement now please, follow my logic
comment 1
- you do 3 salat per day --> how do you do, as per the great reading (al quran)?
comment2
- how do you get salat means only "prayer", at least in the quran it has different meanings, as people sending blessings to the prophete Muhamad, or blessings from angels (mala'ikat) to prophete Muhamad or even prophete Muhamad sending blessings to people!
please refer to this article to get all the references of verses etc
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602365.0
remarque on the link now I read it again seems to miss the "sending blessings" one. sorry for that.
comment 3
al salat al wusta issue I think you will never get that one nor the other issues if you keep using verses oustide context. This is one of the key element to understand this issue. please read this
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.msg217709#msg217709comment 4
to get a general vieuw of salat please see
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602248.0any comment is welcomed.
Peace
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Herbman
I understand it as a time to connect one on one personally with God. It can be a dua, meditation, or from what I have seen mentioned in verses of the Qu'ran, "reading/recitiation." If you understand it as anything else, then that is fine.
From what I have seen, prayer is the one thing we have in common with Judaism and Christianity, even if we can't agree on how to do it. That is how I "get" prayer.
I no longer follow the sunni method of praying, but my prayer does including standing and prostration. Right now, this is what I understand is correct, and if I discover later on that I am wrong, I will fix it.
In my prior post, I said that I had viewed other threads on the subject of salaat and wusta, and it is how I came to my conclusion.
Peace,
Amina
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I would be interested to hear what your understanding of wusta means if you would like to share. If nothing else, it would give me another way to view it.
You are putting me on the spot a little -
I should preface by stating that my approach to understanding Islam is experimental rather than scholarly. Prayer is central in my experiencing nearness to Him, and achieving this nearness with regularity is crucial for my mental well-being. I judge how successful an attempted prayer is by how close to Him I can get, judged by "the feel" I suppose. I have through trial and error learned that there are indeed outer, material conditions that are conductive to successful prayer. It goes beyond the most obvious instructions found in the Book, like washing before, or not being drunk. I pray better when I'm wide awake and fully alert, safe and comfortable. I have a harder time praying well in extreme cold or heat, or in a cloud of biting mosquitos, or when I have a time to keep in the near future, or whatever else. Countless things can add to what distracts from my effort of getting near Allah, factors that can add to my inclination to listen to the whisperings, add to what scatters the attention. The verse immediately after the one with "wusta" mentions such distractions/stress factors; walking/riding, or being fearful.
I think "wusta" is used in contrast with the distracted prayer. I think it's a qualitative term, describing what I experience when I pray well - a sensation of being "mentally centered", sort of relaxing "in the middle" of my consciousness (as opposed to "scatter-brained".Put another way
We must keep up our prayer even when outer conditions make it difficult. We must strive for the "centered" prayer whenever possible (because distracted prayer isn't as useful).My Arabic is weak so I could be completely wrong about this from any number of scholarly perspectives. On the other hand I have through years of practice gained a certain confidence in my ability to pray. At the end of the day I'm just another person on an internet message board with opinions, and I certainly have no authority to declare two daily prayers as the one correct way to serve the Lord.
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You are putting me on the spot a little -
I should preface by stating that my approach to understanding Islam is experimental rather than scholarly. Prayer is central in my experiencing nearness to Him, and achieving this nearness with regularity is crucial for my mental well-being. I judge how successful an attempted prayer is by how close to Him I can get, judged by "the feel" I suppose. I have through trial and error learned that there are indeed outer, material conditions that are conductive to successful prayer. It goes beyond the most obvious instructions found in the Book, like washing before, or not being drunk. I pray better when I'm wide awake and fully alert, safe and comfortable. I have a harder time praying well in extreme cold or heat, or in a cloud of biting mosquitos, or when I have a time to keep in the near future, or whatever else. Countless things can add to what distracts from my effort of getting near Allah, factors that can add to my inclination to listen to the whisperings, add to what scatters the attention. The verse immediately after the one with "wusta" mentions such distractions/stress factors; walking/riding, or being fearful.
I think "wusta" is used in contrast with the distracted prayer. I think it's a qualitative term, describing what I experience when I pray well - a sensation of being "mentally centered", sort of relaxing "in the middle" of my consciousness (as opposed to "scatter-brained".Put another way
We must keep up our prayer even when outer conditions make it difficult. We must strive for the "centered" prayer whenever possible (because distracted prayer isn't as useful).My Arabic is weak so I could be completely wrong about this from any number of scholarly perspectives. On the other hand I have through years of practice gained a certain confidence in my ability to pray. At the end of the day I'm just another person on an internet message board with opinions, and I certainly have no authority to declare two daily prayers as the one correct way to serve the Lord.
Sorry...that was not my intention, to put you on the spot. You didn't have to share...but I appreciate you doing so.
Peace,
Amina
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It's good. Many of the things I do or believe are things I haven't even formulated to myself, much less anyone else. I suppose I should have expected your follow-up question to my first post in this thread. Perhaps I actually did, subconsciously, perhaps actually wanting to be "put on the spot" as it were.
Regardless, I hope my explanation makes some manner of sense, even if you happen to disagree.
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I pray 3 times. I do Sunrise, Sunset (I know Isha is mentioned but to my understanding sunset marks the end of the day, still researching a bit) and Middle /Mid-Day But I will sometimes pray Isha with my husband. He is sunni and does the 5. If he asks me to pray with him, I do. How can praying to God cause an issue, I think you can never pray enough That is for formal prayer, du'a and remembrance, well I have lost count in a day. I stand, bow and prostrate. My prayer has more meaning without the traditional influence. I was actually able to teach my kids very easily. When trying to teach them the Arabic and all the other "rituals" of prayer, they got confused and lost interest. I want them to be able to pray. The Qu'ran makes it so easy a child can worship and develop a wonderful relationship with God.
I found it interesting as I studied how when I was Catholic, their was a HUGE demand on not forgetting the middle of the day prayer. Just in light of all my studies it really struck a cord of interest.
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Peace everyone,
I have seen this discussed numerous times on the board, which is why I am not asking a question, but making a statement. After reading and studying, comparing and pondering, I am happy to say that I believe that we are to make 3 prayers daily. The two ends of the day are mentioned, so when I read wusta/middle/central, it stands out as more of a time/placement to me. Thanks to those of you who provided links on the "wusta" issue.
Although I haven't asked a question, this is very open to discussion. I didn't want to re-open any old threads on this issue, as some have been abandoned for a while.
Salaam,
Never say "I am sticking with it".
First I was sure it were 5, then I was sure it were 3, now I am sure it's 2
Maybe tomorrow I will be sure that it's 4 or again 5.
Just keep on studying and correcting yourself then inshaAllah it doesn't matter how many times.Salaam,
Bender -
Salaam,
Never say "I am sticking with it".
First I was sure it were 5, then I was sure it were 3, now I am sure it's 2
Maybe tomorrow I will be sure that it's 4 or again 5.
Just keep on studying and correcting yourself then inshaAllah it doesn't matter how many times.Salaam,
BenderSalaam Bender,
You make a very valid point, and it is noted. Only God knows where we are headed and what we will do and what will be revealed to us. Thanks for the reminder. )
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It's good. Many of the things I do or believe are things I haven't even formulated to myself, much less anyone else. I suppose I should have expected your follow-up question to my first post in this thread. Perhaps I actually did, subconsciously, perhaps actually wanting to be "put on the spot" as it were.
Regardless, I hope my explanation makes some manner of sense, even if you happen to disagree.
It did make sense, actually. When I read Wakas' post from another thread about the meaning for al-wusta being "central" I actually put it together that way, that what is most important is that are prayers are the "central" part of our worship and then everything else goes from there. So I do understand your explanation a bit. I also like how you understand it to mean "without distraction." It really does make sense.
Peace,
Amina
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I pray 3 times. I do Sunrise, Sunset (I know Isha is mentioned but to my understanding sunset marks the end of the day, still researching a bit) and Middle /Mid-Day But I will sometimes pray Isha with my husband. He is sunni and does the 5. If he asks me to pray with him, I do. How can praying to God cause an issue, I think you can never pray enough That is for formal prayer, du'a and remembrance, well I have lost count in a day. I stand, bow and prostrate. My prayer has more meaning without the traditional influence. I was actually able to teach my kids very easily. When trying to teach them the Arabic and all the other "rituals" of prayer, they got confused and lost interest. I want them to be able to pray. The Qu'ran makes it so easy a child can worship and develop a wonderful relationship with God.
I found it interesting as I studied how when I was Catholic, their was a HUGE demand on not forgetting the middle of the day prayer. Just in light of all my studies it really struck a cord of interest.
I still am not sure of how to pray...I still recite Al-Fatiha at the beginning, say key phrases from the Qu'ran during bowing and prostration, and make dua. It's not perfect, and I have to admit that I do it simply because I don't want to miss the prayers. Not that I don't enjoy praying, but praying this way is new to me and I am still figuring it out. Also, when I am at home I have to be sure that I don't draw attention from my husband. I don't want the argument or ridicule that will come with it. Call me scaredy cat ;D
Peace,
Amina
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peace Amina,
I pray the fajr prayer before dawn, the middle prayer in accordance with the time given for the noon prayer, and then I pray the night prayer in accordance with the time given for isha.
Can you be a bit more specific?
Do you have any insight on this matter, especially the times for prayer? I would be very interested to hear about that!
From my knowledge and experience of discussion, I have found that no-one who believes in 5-a-day has been able to come up with times, based on Quran. If they do, they adopt a 'pick & choose' approach, i.e. they cherry-pick the times that matches their 5-a-day pre-conceived notion. I do not consider this credible.
Those who adopt a 3-a-day approach, they have some variation on when the "middle" one is, and the timing for it. Again, to me, the result is not credible. -
peace Amina,
Can you be a bit more specific?
From my knowledge and experience of discussion, I have found that no-one who believes in 5-a-day has been able to come up with times, based on Quran. If they do, they adopt a 'pick & choose' approach, i.e. they cherry-pick the times that matches their 5-a-day pre-conceived notion. I do not consider this credible.
Those who adopt a 3-a-day approach, they have some variation on when the "middle" one is, and the timing for it. Again, to me, the result is not credible.I am afraid I don't understand what you are asking here...
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I pray the fajr prayer before dawn, the middle prayer in accordance with the time given for the noon prayer, and then I pray the night prayer in accordance with the time given for isha.
I meant what specifically is the "time given for the noon prayer" and "time given for isha".
