Is there an apparent conflict here?

Bigmo

Thank you all for responding. The easy way out for many Muslims is to say "Well, one verse abrogates the other!". Do, we need to pay attention to why the word "Al-Islam" rather than Islam has been used in this Ayah?

Thanks.

Maybe you should have started the discussion with how do we define what Islam is.

NOMAD

Salaam to all

Still to add that, Hudan-guided and Nasara-helpers and Muslim -pacified, SO we not sure if the translation is cristian and jew 100% acurate, thats the lagacy of our ancestors while mixing Quran to fullfill bible and hadith stories.....IMOP.. Ibrahim and prophets were not hudan nor nasara but muslims.. So they were not Helpers or guided(half role model), but pacified by Creator laws and way of life(muslims) wich is the complete role model to live , in all times and ages.

sunSalaam and stay in blessing and peace of Creator pr

NOMAD

Double post..sorry, my pc just crashed)

mubashir55

Thanks to all of you for your responses.

Some (as the example below) seem to suggest that other than followers of Qur'an and the blessed Rasool Muhammad, all (Jews, Christians and Sabeans) are going to hell

".........Please note the following points

The verb used "believed" in 262 is in perfect tense equivalent to past tense of English with reference to period of revelation of Quran.
Read the verse 263 which clarifies that if they act according to original book given to them, then this condition applies.
The verb used "seeks" in 385 is in imperfect tense equivalent to present and future tense of English with reference to period of revelation of Quran.

In short, verse 262 refers position before revelation of Quran and verse 365 refers position after revelation of Quran.
Once Quran is revealed see the position in verse 2137 "So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism;"

So, if you read verses in right context, there is no contradiction.

Verify above content yourself by clicking following links
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=62

http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=3&verse=85

http//www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=2&from_verse=137&to_verse=137&mac&translation_setting=1&show_transliteration=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran
corpus.quran.com
Welcome to the Quranic Arabic Corpus, an annotated linguistic resource which shows the Arabic grammar, syntax and morphology for each word in the Holy Quran. Click on an Arabic word below to see details of the word's grammar, or to suggest a correction

with so many different interpretations what are simple commoners supposed to do? Reminds me of an Urdu couplet

Illahi teray saada dil banday bata aakhir kahan jaayen

(God, where should your simple-minded servants supposed to go for guidance?

teddy3indc

I have not read the whole thread.

There is only conflict if you change deen to "relgion". If you make Deen, a straight and natural way, then the Quran works again .

Peace and blessings.

Magnus

I have not read the whole thread.

There is only conflict if you change deen to "relgion". If you make Deen, a straight and natural way, then the Quran works again .

Peace and blessings.

You are correct, with the obvious qualification that there are other types of deen than Islam (see chapter 109 etc.)

Bigmo

Thanks to all of you for your responses.

Some (as the example below) seem to suggest that other than followers of Qur'an and the blessed Rasool Muhammad, all (Jews, Christians and Sabeans) are going to hell

".........Please note the following points

The verb used "believed" in 262 is in perfect tense equivalent to past tense of English with reference to period of revelation of Quran.
Read the verse 263 which clarifies that if they act according to original book given to them, then this condition applies.
The verb used "seeks" in 385 is in imperfect tense equivalent to present and future tense of English with reference to period of revelation of Quran.

In short, verse 262 refers position before revelation of Quran and verse 365 refers position after revelation of Quran.
Once Quran is revealed see the position in verse 2137 "So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism;"

So, if you read verses in right context, there is no contradiction.

Verify above content yourself by clicking following links
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=62

http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=3&verse=85

http//www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=2&from_verse=137&to_verse=137&mac&translation_setting=1&show_transliteration=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran
corpus.quran.com
Welcome to the Quranic Arabic Corpus, an annotated linguistic resource which shows the Arabic grammar, syntax and morphology for each word in the Holy Quran. Click on an Arabic word below to see details of the word's grammar, or to suggest a correction

with so many different interpretations what are simple commoners supposed to do? Reminds me of an Urdu couplet

Illahi teray saada dil banday bata aakhir kahan jaayen

(God, where should your simple-minded servants supposed to go for guidance?

That does not answer the criteria the Quran uses to determine faith. Look at the verses again and see that criteria. That criteria is consitent in both Judaism and Christianity. Its a question whether someone believes in that or not.

mubashir55

Thanks as always for your comments you all.

Any significance to the following verse?

2137 "So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism;"

Bigmo

Thanks as always for your comments you all.

Any significance to the following verse?

2137 "So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism;"

(135) They say "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."

(136) Say ye "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma?il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord We make no difference between one and another of them And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

(137) So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism; but Allah will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.

The scriptures all are the same faith. Its a question whether you believe in them or not. What it says.

GODsubmitter

(135) They say "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."

(136) Say ye "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma?il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord We make no difference between one and another of them And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

(137) So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism; but Allah will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.

The scriptures all are the same faith. Its a question whether you believe in them or not. What it says.

Excellent answer!

God is One.

There are only theists and atheists. Believers and unbelievers.

peace

mirjamnur

Salam

Thanks as always for your comments you all.

Any significance to the following verse?

2137 "So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism;"

i just read this sura and found it give also answer

42.13He has decreed for you the same system He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it. Intolerable for the polytheists is what you invite them towards. God chooses for Himself whoever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent.

the system from God=believe in God the one
42.14And they only divided after the knowledge had come to them, due to resentment among themselves. And had it not been for a predetermined decision from your Lord, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, those who inherited the Book after them are full of doubts.

because they loved their prophets and the bloodline more than God, they quarreled among themselves ....

4215 For that, you shall preach and be upright, as you have been commanded, and do not follow their wishes. And say I believe in all that God has sent down as a Book, and I was commanded to be with justice between you. God is our Lord and your Lord. We have our deeds and you have your deeds. There is no argument between us and you. God will gather us all together, and to Him is the ultimate destiny.
And those who debate about God, after they had been answered, their argument is nullified at their Lord. They have incurred a wrath, and will have a severe retribution.
There is no argument, because we both believe in the same one God

4217 God is the One who sent down the Book with the truth, and the balance. And for all that you know, the Hour may be very near.
4218 Those who do not believe in it seek to hasten it, while those who believe are concerned about it, and they know that it is the truth. Certainly, those who dispute the Hour have gone far astray.
there was not a group Jews who would not believe in the Day of Judgment and with which Jesus spoke? (where was the thread)?? hmm

42.21Or do they have partners who decree for them a system which has not been authorized by God? And if it were not for the word already given, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors will have a painful retribution.
they do not believe God when they ascribe partners, partners who possess HUKM who deserve only God so that they can say how the system from God should be, i.e. change HIS divine law
Salam